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BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?

GUEST,Dewey 29 Aug 01 - 01:36 AM
Mark Clark 29 Aug 01 - 05:57 AM
kendall 29 Aug 01 - 06:00 AM
Wolfgang 29 Aug 01 - 06:47 AM
Wolfgang 29 Aug 01 - 06:54 AM
catspaw49 29 Aug 01 - 07:01 AM
catspaw49 29 Aug 01 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,Dewey 29 Aug 01 - 07:44 AM
catspaw49 29 Aug 01 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,Dewey 29 Aug 01 - 08:26 AM
Don Firth 29 Aug 01 - 12:18 PM
Ebbie 29 Aug 01 - 12:33 PM
DougR 29 Aug 01 - 01:00 PM
Amos 29 Aug 01 - 01:24 PM
catspaw49 29 Aug 01 - 01:35 PM
M.Ted 29 Aug 01 - 02:01 PM
DougR 29 Aug 01 - 02:06 PM
Don Firth 29 Aug 01 - 02:19 PM
SDShad 29 Aug 01 - 02:27 PM
catspaw49 29 Aug 01 - 02:28 PM
Marymac90 29 Aug 01 - 02:29 PM
Don Firth 29 Aug 01 - 03:01 PM
DougR 29 Aug 01 - 04:25 PM
M.Ted 29 Aug 01 - 04:28 PM
Gareth 29 Aug 01 - 05:10 PM
GUEST,Lyle 29 Aug 01 - 09:37 PM
DougR 29 Aug 01 - 10:03 PM
Art Thieme 29 Aug 01 - 11:02 PM

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Subject: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: GUEST,Dewey
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 01:36 AM

Growing up my grandfather use to recite this particle Pre-WW2 Speech which he attributed to Franklin Roosevelt. Being a kid, I did not readily notice the sexual slant that could be implied here. The speech that was recited to me was as follows:

I have said it before, and I will continue to say it agun! and agun! I will never send American boys to fight on foreign shores! I hate War! Eleanor hates War! We all hate war! AND MY SON ELIOT LIKES HIS PEACE TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did Roosevelt Really make this speech in Public?

Just Curious!

Dewey


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 05:57 AM

I'm not an historian but it sound's like something FDR would have said prior to 7.12.1941. The “war to end all wars” was very unpopular and the U.S. electorate was not anxious to have another one.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 06:00 AM

It is highly unlikely that he added the thing about his son. It sounds like an addition to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 06:47 AM

The closest I have found:

Let no man or woman thoughtlessly or falsely talk of America sending its armies to European fields....I have said not once but many times that I have seen war and that I hate war. I say that again and again. I hope the United States will keep out of this war. I believe that it will....As long as it remains within my power to prevent, there will be no blackout of peace in the United States.

from the radio address to the American people on Sept. 3rd, 1939 (two days after the German/Russian attack on Poland)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 06:54 AM

Perhaps even a better candidate for your grandfather's recollection is Roosevelt's Address at Chautauqua, New York, August 14, 1936.

Search for the phrase "I hate war" after following the link.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:01 AM

First, do this.........Enter on Google

"I hate war" Roosevelt

You will pull up more than you need to know. Roosevelt did indeed make numerous "I hate war" speeches and one of them is quite famous. Between 1936 and 1941, having been elected on a pacifist plank in the platform, FDR gave several speeches using the "I hate war" line with certain variations, but nowhwere did he tail it with the son business. He DID at one point make a radio address saying that Eleanor hates war and that his little dog Fala hates war....but that one did not end with "And I hate Eleanor" as was one of my Dad's favorite tales!!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:04 AM

Well Wolfgang linked the two most famous (thanks)......The Eleanor/Fala thing was in a radio address. I hate war was a famous line of his and inscribed on much memorabilia.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: GUEST,Dewey
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:44 AM

Yes the Eliot reference COULD be an addition BUT, if taken in context the speech progresses both prefectly and logically. he is most likely addressing the American Families who might be called to fight (including the line about his son Eliot)

He is telling the public he hates war and would "never send American boys to fight" He and Eleanor have a son too, and wants to stress to the Americans that he has a family in much the same predicament as theirs.

Perhaps maybe there was a possibilty people didn't have dirty minds as much in those days? And that the adminstration thought this speech was workable? I admit this sounds like a stretch, but the speech reads so definitively. But I think it would soon become an embarrassment to Roosevelt if it were actually said.

Anyway any historians that can answer this one? Is this a real speech? Or a bogus speech made by some comedian?

Dewey


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 08:08 AM

Good luck Dewey....I can't find any such reference and I can only with assurance say that a lot of I hate war speeches were given and the two most famous are linked above. The "fala" reference was in a radio address.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: GUEST,Dewey
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 08:26 AM

Thanks Spaw! If need be, I can live without knowing this. I am curious though. My instincts tell me it is an addition. I do believe Roosevelt and his staff would have enough foresight to not go public with such a crazy speech.

Dewey


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:18 PM

I was a kid at the time, but I remember FDR's rolling, resonant voice in many of his radio speeches, particulaly his "fireside chats." Roosevelt was a highly intelligent man, contrary to what his critics said of him, and he was a master orater. For the most part, he wrote his own speeches (unlike politicians today) and, believe me, he knew the nuances of every word he uttered.

Compared to now, it was a somewhat repressed and naive age, and a lot of sexual innuendo (intended or otherwise) might have slid right by many people, but not someone who was as skilled a word-smith as Roosevelt. I'm sure the crack about Eliot is bogus. Probably hatched up by some comedian. There was a lot of that back then.

Don (The Ancient One) Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:33 PM

It seems evident that it's a fabrication. Just compare the flowing cadence of the I Hate War speech that Wolfgang posted to the jerky, fragmented lines of the purported Elliot Hates War paragraph. Besides, he had three sons, didn't he?

(Oh, for the vision of an articulate, eloquent President!)

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 01:00 PM

Yes, Dewey, I do believe Roosevelt made such a speech, and it is the one Wolfgang found for you, though not exactly the same words as your grandfather used.

Roosevelt was kidded a lot about this particular speech. Probably not to his face, but there were parodies of his speech going around. One of them was, "I have been in war, I have been in Elinor ...I prefer war!"

The U. S. was very pacifist prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor and had the American voters known that Roosevelt had every intention of the U. S. entering the conflict in Europe, it is doubtful that he would have been re-elected. At least that is how I understand it based on things I have read.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 01:24 PM

God, what a beautiful speech! It makes Bush look like a third grader!! (Instead of a junior high school student!)

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 01:35 PM

Well Amos, the quality does seem to have dropped off a bit, both in speeches and in office holders............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:01 PM

Dewey,

You were just too young to get your grandfather's joke, such as it was. A lot of people hated FDR, and bitterly, for involving us in the War (a view that is almost unimaginable for those of us who were raised on stories about Nazi atrocities, and never forgave him. The reasons are not too hard to see--for one thing, Italian and German Americans comprised a large percentage of the population--Many retained strong ties and loyalties to their homeland--In Hoboken, we occasionally go to an old Italian Restaurant that is decorated with portraits of great Italians, and there is a large, faded poster of Il Duce in one of the booths--everyone knows it's there, too--


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:06 PM

Be damned! Did it hang there during WWII, also, M. Ted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:19 PM

Thanks for posting the link, Wolfgang. I just read the speech, and it occurs to me that much of what Roosevelt said back then is still relevant today. That is, it should be relevant today.

A line from The Vicar of Bray popped into mind:--"

"When George in pudding time came o'er,
and moderate men looked big, sir. . . ."

Hmm. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: SDShad
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:27 PM

Doug, the one my father (a big FDR admirer, BTW) always quotes is "I do not fear war, but I do fear Eleanor."

Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:28 PM

Right Don....it should be. And to be fair, here's some lines from a Republican President that should still be kept in mind today:

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

...........Dwight D. Eisenhower

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Marymac90
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 02:29 PM

Oh, for an intelligent, honest president now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 03:01 PM

And thank you, Spaw, for posting that. I'm not for compulsory much of anything, but I think Eisenhower's speech should be compulsory reading for every citizen -- and everyone in politics or other positions of national leadership should be required to read it at least once a day.

They say that a politician thinks of the next election; a statesman thinks of the next generation. Where have all the statesmen gone? Has the human race devolved over the past few decades?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 04:25 PM

Well, Don, I think American politics has degenerated over the past few decades. Both major parties can, with impunity, look the American people squarly in the eyes and ...lie to them. All either party is interested in is out politicing the other party.

This whole flap about the social security "trust fund" and the surplus is ridiculous, in my opinion. (Creep Creep).

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 04:28 PM

Doug,

I wasn't around then, so I don't know--it certainly looks like it's been there since then---though my guess that it's been there only since the late fifties or sixties, since most of the other stuff is from around--There were active fascist groups here from the twenties on, they were very vocal up until Pearl Harbor--much more subdued after, but there are still a few unrepentant Mussolini supporters in the old neigbborhoods, and more than a few younger ones--


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Gareth
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 05:10 PM

Spaw,
Your posting of Ike's speach, reminds me just how much Europe owes to FDR, Ike, and the American People

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 09:37 PM

I'd bet mu bottom dollar that he never said that. Remember that there were just as many comedians around then as there are now, and it seemed that every other one loved to imitate FDR. I remember bunches of them with the same general theme as you have asked about. Example: "Eleanor hates a war but loves a piece. I hate war but love a piece. But not from Eleanor"

Lyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 10:03 PM

Well Guest Lyle, I think you'd lose. He may not have used exactly those same words, but the meaning was the same.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Did FDR Really Make This Speech?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 11:02 PM

This song is from the Almanac Singers-----Pete, Woody, Millard Lampell, Josh White, Butch Hawes, Bess Lomax Hawes (of the National Endowment for the Arts) and, on occasion, several other folks like Burl Ives. The song was on a album of 78 rpm records and all the songs were against U.S. involvement in World War 2 --- a perfectly logical pacifist point of view. After Pearl harbor (and after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union) another album of songs that supported the war was issued with things like "Ruben James", "The Soldier's Sweetheart", etc. It became clear, with the passing of time, that we had to put stuff aside and take care of the damn cancer that was threatening the world. The Spanish Civil War would've been the proper place to end Hitler. The Lincoln and International Brigades knew that. But it took getting hit over the head with a 2 x 4 to get the stupid mulke's attention.

tune: "Jesse James"

It was on a Saturday night -- the moon was shining bright,
When they passed the conscription bill,
And the people all did say from many miles away
It was the president and his boys on Capitol Hill.

Chorus) Franklin Roosevelt told the people how he felt,
We damn near believed what he said,
He said, "I hate war and so does Elanore,
But we won't be safe 'til everyone is dead."

I was stnading by his side when my poor old father died,
And I swore to war I'd never go,
Now I'm wearing army jeans and I'm eating army beans,
And I'm told that John Paul Getty loves me so.

Well, I've been all over this land just an honest working man,
No clothes to wear and not much food to eat,
Now the army foots the bill --- buys me clothes and feeds me swill
Gets me shot and put's me underground six feet.

Ch) Franklin Roosevelt told the people how he felt,
We damn near believed what he said,
He said,"I hate war and so does Elanore,


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Mudcat time: 27 May 7:28 PM EDT

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