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My mad drunken bet....(learning the concertina)
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Subject: My mad drunken bet.... From: GUEST,dougboywonder Date: 01 Sep 01 - 12:33 PM So, we were sitting in the pub and had this conversation about a mate of mine and a group of friends(at music college) who learned each others instruments up to grade III standard in four weeks for charity. They were sponsered to pass the exam having never touched the instrument a month before. "Not too hard...." I reckoned...and there the trouble began. Now I've been challenged to learn the concertina well enough to play a few sets on stage in five weeks time. I've borrowed my dad's concertina (it's a macan duet, i'm told) and I've been having a go - after a day I've just about got the fingering sussed, but the bellows I'm finding really hard. I keep changing direction in the middle of phrases 'cause I'm having to concentrate really hard. I WILL manage it without to much hassle but...has anyone any advice??? |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 01 Sep 01 - 12:46 PM Sorry no advice from me, but good luck.john |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: gnu Date: 01 Sep 01 - 02:28 PM Refrain from betting while imbibing. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: CarolC Date: 01 Sep 01 - 05:37 PM Learn how to pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time. If you can do that, you can manage the bellows and the buttons at the same time (with practice). |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: sophocleese Date: 01 Sep 01 - 11:15 PM Well good for you. Hope you manage it. Can't help cause I can't play and I'm drunk at the moment meself. If I'd followed gnu's advice I wouldn't be vice-president of the Ladies Recreational Soccer Club at this moment. Oh my aching head, oh my bruised shins....... |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: catspaw49 Date: 01 Sep 01 - 11:41 PM My best advice would be to not bother screwing around here and go practice!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Benjamin Date: 02 Sep 01 - 02:25 AM Be careful who you drink around. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: DG&D Dave2 Date: 02 Sep 01 - 09:22 AM Hi Doughboywonder. I have recently started to learn the english concertina and I have found it best (with music that comes in 4 bar phrases) to play 2 bars pulling and the next 2 pushing. Never allow the bellows to close completely. If sitting rest the left hand end on your left leg and do all of the pulling and pushing with your right hand. But then I'm just a beginner too. load's o' luck. Dave Barnes. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Mr Red Date: 02 Sep 01 - 09:52 AM Well I never bet, pat my head while rubbing anybody's stonache, and it took me a long time to learn the spoons. I have been drunk and the best advice is take smaller sips. just fer now - lay off the booze, bets and by 'eck you'll do it. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Liz the Squeak Date: 02 Sep 01 - 10:29 AM Could have been worse, could have been the bagpipes..... LTS |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Banjer Date: 02 Sep 01 - 10:35 AM To quote: "I WILL manage it without to much hassle but.." Wanna bet??? |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: lady penelope Date: 02 Sep 01 - 04:53 PM HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Whaddya want? Sympathy? TTFN M'Lady P. P.S. I will be impressed if you pull it off. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 01 - 06:13 PM Don't listen to these people. And I really meant what I said about patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time. Try it. You're trying to get your brain to allow you to do two different and somewhat conflicting functions at the same time. But practice will make the most difference. And try to relax and remember to breathe. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: GUEST,.gargoyl Date: 02 Sep 01 - 08:47 PM Ignore the above nattering naybobs of negativism!!! Their insolent ignorance has been established through the years.
Does your's look like this? Click here http://www.buttonbox.com/stagi-hayden.html This style came along in 1963.
Good News My Friend! You will win your bet.
You are fortunate to have a duet. It is the easiest to play.
Do not use sheet music. This is an instrument, like the harmonica, which is best learned "by ear."
Some suggestions: Or better yet, just scroll through the DT search scanning for five songs you all ready know.
Your melody will be played with the right hand buttons. The left hand will supply a deeper note, for harmony. At this point, only use one button at a time in the left, which will probably be for a Waltz: C/GG, G/DD, and F/CC.
Start by playing a scale from the "home-key" (indented, using index) Up and down, down and up. Then go to SIMPLE harmony.
Chart of button positions Work out the melody first. Memorize it. Add the harmony. Keep it simple. Have fun....!
You owe me a drink the next time we meet. Your old drinking pal and bud,
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: DonMeixner Date: 02 Sep 01 - 10:24 PM Wow! Our Gargoyl being pleasant and helpful right here infront of God and everybody. I knew you had it in ya Garg. Just needed the right catalyst. Proud of ya Bub. Don |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: paddymac Date: 02 Sep 01 - 10:35 PM I read not long ago a serious bit of commentary on the concertina. As I recall, the essence was that "it can't be taught, only learned." I think that's consistent with what others have said above, and probably applies as well to the other varieties of boxes used in folk music. Practice, practice, practice, and rely on you ear. Nothing like a few pints for motivation. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Bob Bolton Date: 02 Sep 01 - 11:21 PM G'day doughboywonder, Gargoyle: Sorry mate but i think you are doing a good job of describing how to pick up the Anglo (~-chromatic). The lad says he has his Dad's McCann Duet ... and these are a very different beastie. doughboywonder: As a duet, they do have a right hand melody, left hand harmony/accompaniment arrangement, but that is where the resemblance stops. They are fully chromatic (like the English System) but have 6 vertical rows of buttons (compared to the English's 4 vertical rows and the Anglo's 2 or 3 horizontal rows. The notes, starting at middle C, begin in row 2, a row or 2 up from the bottom ... D is more or less same level in row 4 ... E is slightly higher in row 3 and F is next to that in row 4. And it doesn't get any easier after that! I could dig out a tuning diagram and PM it you ... if you were a member ... or to an address you nominate - but your Dad has probably given you a tuning diagram already (or mud-map equivalent). Getting to play smoothly is just ptractice, as you well know. You should work out most of your tunes as melody ... then start to think about the (simple) chords you might add. Good luck. I watched some 70-80 year-old Salvationists show what they could do on concertinas ranging from English to McCann and "Triumph" duets, back around 1975 ... and went out and got a good price for my McCann from someone who would play it as it deserved ... and spent the money on a nice Anglo (traditional 'bush' instrument, out here in the colonies) and a 3-row Hohner Corona III in A/D/G for dance work. I decided I was never going to shake my push-pull / suck-blow origins even if I did live to 80. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: Joe Clones ... Help (done) From: Bob Bolton Date: 02 Sep 01 - 11:28 PM Dear Joe Clones: Er... Sorry about that but I seem to have mucked up the closing 'arrow bracket' after do ... please fix? (pretty please?) Doughboywonder: I also forgot to mention that (as you at least will have noticed) this is a 'same note both ways' concertina, so the direction of bellows travel is up to you ... practice, practice, practice ... (excuse me will I go and practice my html ...). Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: GUEST,dougboywonder Date: 03 Sep 01 - 05:22 AM UPDATE!!!! Yes, It's a McCann Duet - It has 80-something keys and it is BIG! However I know the actual tunes I'm going to play inside out - I just don't know them on this instrument. And my co-ordination is getting there (my party trick is doing a "Charles Ives" for those who know what I'm talking about) 3 Days in and I've just realised how amazing instruments concertinas are - they rock! BUT....to all those who doubt my willpower to succeed I will announce the date and time of my debut performance when I found out myself - I'll also quite posibly upload a sound or video clip to somewhere so I have documentary evidence. Oh, yeah and I am a member - I'm just still at my parents house and havn't logged in properly. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Bob Bolton Date: 04 Sep 01 - 05:15 AM G'day doughboywonder, Hmmm... 80+ keys ... that is one big McCann Duet! Is it an extended treble - reaching down into the bass range on the left side? McCanns are probably the next big interest in concertinas, as all the good English systems are taken up ... all the best Anglo-chromatics have been snaffled by mad Irish ... the "Triumph" (/Crane /Butterworth [the real designer]) duets are all staying in the families of Salvationists - or tightly held by anyone else that managed to buy one. It is a good system, within the range of keys that folk musicians normally play, it just wasn't for an old push-pull player like me. What is your normal instrument? This is going to have an effect on how well you can make your music travel to the McCann. Anyway - best of luck ... but don't let your next round of drinks get you in for this sort of thing again! Regards, Bob Bolton. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Hamish Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:08 AM Well... five weeks? Some of the floor spots I've seen would call that way too much practice! |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: GUEST,dougboy wonder Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:55 AM OK I over-estimated slightly - it has about seventy buttons. It does go right down into the bass range on the treble side - It's also very sparkly and my dad reckons it was a special order from Wheatstone, incidentaly I've found out that it was made in 1934 and I've just been told what it's worth....I'm looking after it that's for sure. My usual instrument, I suppose is piano, but thats only 'cause I'm studying compostition and have been neglecting my other instruments lately. Folk-wise I guess I'm a singer who plays anything to hand to accompany myself. In case I hadn't made it clear, me and my friends are all third year students at Birmingham Conservatoire - that's why the bet was made....we don't get out much you see.
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Ralphie Date: 05 Sep 01 - 04:17 AM Doug....old bean! Welcome to a small (yet barking mad!) and select band of McCann players You have chosen (albeit unwittingly!) The BEST Concertina system of all!! 70 keys though....Mmmmm.. bit big for me. I have two McCanns. both 56 keys with an octave crossover between bass and treble ends. When and where is this gig...? I'm in London...PM me if you want to talk more!! Ralph Jordan (25 years playing, and still learning!) PS. At Dartmoor fest met a fellow McCann player for the first time, and it was like meeting a long lost brother. Good Luck! |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Ralphie Date: 05 Sep 01 - 04:28 AM Oh....you can't PM me at the moment (as a Guest!) Post a reply here. More than happy to help One thing...try scales!! Particularly C Major Ascending on the left hand and Descending on the right... When you've unscrambled your brain, you'll find that everything else is easy!! Ralphie |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 05 Sep 01 - 09:57 AM Got into squeeze boxes myself .... because a piano is hard to strap on the back and lug around the country-side. |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Bob Bolton Date: 05 Sep 01 - 11:55 PM G'day yet again, Dougboywonder: Can I claim I need to get my optical prescription updated? I don't want to claim I just accidentally hit the 'h' along with the 'g' every time I typed your name ... that would only lead to disparaging remarks by players of concertinas with narrow metal keys - about people who prefer the broad bone keys of Anglos! (I do prefer the 6.5mm bone variety ... find 3.5 - 4mm nickel-plated brass keys a real pain ... but, then, I also play button accordion. Anyway, I might make Ralphie feel upset if I tell him that I bought that 56-key McCann (admittedly, in 1966) in Hobart, Tasmania, for $20. When I got back to the mainland, I paid the only concertina repairer in Australia (at that time) $40 to clean and tune the reads - mainly so he would draw me a tuning diagram! I eventually sold it for $600, about 8 years later when I decided I was really a push-pull player (and, more importantly, that Anglos were the traditional instrument of the music I loved). I still have friends that play and love the McCann system - particularly concertina repairer / manufacturer Richard Evans in the Blus Mts, west of Sydney. Richard makes Anglo-chromatics ... but plays the McCann! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: My mad drunken bet.... From: Ralphie Date: 06 Sep 01 - 01:23 AM Bob.... Not upset at all !! Jealous, yes ! Have just ordered a 56 McCann Aeola from Colin Dipper for my 50th birthday (In 3 Years time!) Good to hear that our Antipodean cousins have good taste in Tina systems...Best Wishes to you all Ralphie |
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