Man From the R.U.C.

Subject: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: The Fenian
Date: 28 Jan 98 - 08:39 AM

There is a song by either the Battering Ram or Men of no Property about a man from the R.U.C. and I'm wondering what the real name of the song is. I call it the man from the R.U.C. but would like to know the real name.

It is about the R.U.C. and how there are real assholes

The first verse goes like this.

Oh I'm the man the slimy man who listens at your door For I belong to the R.U.C. and that's what I'm paid for If you singin' songs of protest or against the third world war I'll put your name in me book and by hook or by crook i'll say that your done for.

It goes to the tune of the Sick Note except a little faster.

Any help would by EXCELLENT

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: The Fenian
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 07:53 AM

OH I'm the Man the slimy man who listens at your door
For I belong to the R.U.C. and that's what I'm paid for
If your singin' songs of protest or against the third World war I'll put your name in me book and by hook or by crook
I'll say that your done for

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 04:44 PM

Sounds like it fits the tune of "The Man Who Waters the Workers' Beer." Check out the tune in the database, and see if it's that - the song almost sounds like a parody of "Waters the Beer."
What's the R.U.C.???
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Jon W.
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 05:35 PM

I believe it's the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the protestant-faction equivalent of the I.R.A. (or are they more official than that?)

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: alison
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 07:52 PM

Hi

The RUC are indeed the Royal Ulster Constabulary, but as for the rest of that last comment........ well just don't get me started........

They are the official police force in Northern Ireland, same as the "Met" would be in London, or NYPD would be in New York.

They are not affiliated with either "side" (there are both protestants and catholics in the RUC.) and are doing a difficult job in what are often very difficult situations. They are there to keep law and order and that often does put them in opposition to the IRA, and the protestant paramilitaries too.

Personally I wouldn't want their job, with all the extra pressure of being a "ligitimate" target for the IRA. Constantly looking over you shoulder and checking under your car for bombs. I for one was glad they were there when I lived in Belfast.

That's the end of my rant

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 16 Feb 98 - 10:41 AM

Fenian, I might have found a cousin to the song you are looking for, for my version is not about the R.U.C, but about the Special Branch. These songs come and go, for they are easy to accommodate to any new target group. My guess is that the song you are looking for is identical to this one but for two or three lines. My version comes from Songs of Resistance, 1968-1975, a Sinn Fein outlet. No author is given, of course, and the tune is (fine job, Joe): "The man that waters the workers' beer." The Slimey Man

1. Oh, I'm the man, the slimey man, that listens at yer door
for I belong to the Special Branch and that's what I'm paid for,
if your [sic] singing songs of protest or against repressive law
I'll put yer name in me book and by hook or by crook I'll see that you're done for, I'll see that you're done for.

2. If you're red, pink or Republican or belong to the P.D.
I'll terrorise your parents to save democracy,
I'll tell your boss to sack you and I'll never shed a tear
for I like my job with the Special Branch at [pound sign] 5000 a year.

3. Oh, the craven and the cowardly, they cannot be absolved,
they do the work of the Special Branch and say they're not involved.
At Buchenwald and Belsen they said they weren't to blame,
but at the court of Nuremberg they were sentenced just the same.

4. Oh now Dublin life is changing and changing very fast.
The youth are moving forward and learning from the past,
when Ireland is united and the workers have control,
there'll be no need for the Special Branch so we'll make them shovel coal.

A personal note: Whatever despisable actions the Special Branch may have done (or not; I don't know enough to judge), the comparison to the Nazi concentration camps' crimes (verse 3, line 3) is unwarranted, in my eyes.
Wolfgang

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Jon W.
Date: 16 Feb 98 - 11:39 AM

Alison, thanks for the clarification. I tend to be overconfident in my "knowledge." As I was posting my last comment I realized that the word "Royal" must connote something official in the title, so I tried to hedge my bet a little. Glad to know the truth of the situation from a first-hand source.

A humbler Jon W.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: The Fenian
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 09:42 AM

Wolfgang Hell, first of all where did you ever get a name like that. I know Wolfgang but why hell. Is it because he wanted to inflict hell upon the British or just for a laugh.
Anyway the song is next to exaclty the same. There are no lines different only a few words. Thanks!

The R.U.C. are a police force in Northern Ireland and they are quite the target for the I.R.A. but it's all in good reason for many of this Constab have used there power to inflict uneeded and unesscessary pain upon Catholic citizens in Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 09:53 AM

Fenian, that "Hell" just happens to be my last name, meaning "bright" in German. I got it from my parents, of course. But I know that I get some laughs or puzzled faces when travelling in English speaking countries. Maybe I should have choosen an incognito for this group.
Wolfgang

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: The Fenian
Date: 19 Feb 98 - 07:12 AM

I see, well that's pretty cool!!

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: STEVIE
Date: 19 Jul 98 - 09:04 PM

IT'S EASY TO KNOCK THE R.U.C. PUT ON THE UNIFORM AND THEN SAY THEY ARE NOT BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN. THOSE WHO KNOCK THE R.U.C HIDE BEHIND THE SKIRTS OF THEIR WOMEN AND SHOUT SNIDE REMARKS.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Jul 98 - 09:38 PM

STEVIE, there is no need to shout, this here is a folk music forum, not a political soapbox, although sometimes politics can find it's way in, with a comment here & there. I'd say or hope to say that we all come under the umbrella of musichood, & can leave, color, race, religion, politics, nationality, sex & sexual orientation & all other isms at the door, & for the most part if offense has been taken or a transgression made, it's almost always with no malice or intention, & a kindly pointer in taken more seriously.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Jul 98 - 10:42 PM

Aisy boyos!!

I am with Barry on this one. I come from a Republican family (in the Irish sense, not the American), and have lost family members to the troubles. But I was born and raised here in the states. While my politics on the issue would differ from alison's, and certainly from Stevie's, I completely respect their views as they were based on some experience. But before you say it, Stevie, I do understand war, and guerrilla actions, having been wounded in Vietnam.

Having said all that, folk music, no matter where it comes from, almost always deals with some form of politic. If you try to sing the music of my people, and you leave out the politics that have shaped that country for 800 years, you are left with a shadow of the legacy that has come to us.

At any rate, let us discuss these matters in a civil way here on dear Aul Mudcat, as musicians ought do.

Mick

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: john
Date: 14 Nov 98 - 11:56 AM

IM AN R.U.C. MAN , WE SERVE ALL PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF RELIGION, CREED OR COLOUR, PERHAPS FOR ONCE PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF, SOMEDAY WILL CAST US IN A DIFFERENT BRIGHT LIGHT

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Nov 98 - 12:43 PM

John,

I am not sure who you were addressing your comment to, nor what it's point is. If it is a comment on your own creed and who you serve, then fair play to you. Good man. If it is a statement on the RUC in general, which includes its history, both near and far; then it is a gratuitous assertion which can just as gratuatously be denied. To act as though the RUC is somehow a misunderstood bunch of lads just trying to save the Irish from theirselves is ridiculous. I would admit that there are those among you that are trying to do your very best to serve the cause of law and civil peace. I would further assert that the recent history (since 1968) indicates that there are and have been a large number of those in your ranks who serve the colonial attitude that the "trouble with Ireland is the Irish".

You might want to look for the thread titled "Back Home In Derry". It's purpose was to have a discussion of the North which included all points of view and have it in a civil way, with respect for all views. I am requesting that you read it first, and then put your views in it. The only rule, it must be done with respect for each others views. None of this "you aren't here, you don't know" or "damn all brits" stuff. Just good dialogue, designed to cause understanding. What do you think, lad? Are ye up for it? I hope so, because your perspective on all this could be invaluable.

I know context is hard to see on a computer monitor. Let me assure you that none of my remarks to you are given in a rancorous way. I just call 'em as I see 'em. And I am open to change my views, provided one can back up their assertions.

And by the way, DON'T YELL. It hurts my ears. ***grin***

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: meself
Date: 18 Nov 98 - 05:11 PM

It was from a Belfast group called The Men of No Property (quote from Wolfe Tone, I believe) Band members included songwriters Joe Mulhern and John Gray

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Dan Keding
Date: 18 Nov 98 - 09:43 PM

Freinds, It's easy to get emotional about the Troubles. My father's people came over from Ireland and I heard stories as a boy from all sorts of folks. But I was in Northern Ireland this summer and was suppose to perform at a storytelling festival in Omagh. The festival was called off after the bombing but I was there at the memorial service and I saw the coming together that grief brings. I also saw how the RUC carried the wounded and dying to buses and ambulances after the bomb went off and saw the tears running down their faces. Oddly enough they never asked the people they carried what religion they were or how they voted. Perhaps the end is in sight.

Dan

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: ORua
Date: 20 Nov 98 - 04:12 PM

Its good to see that folksong continues to generate debate and controversy. Joe Mulhern, who gets a mention,as a member of The Men of No Property, is now amongst other things, running a 'singing' pub in Derry. Well worth checking out. I wonder if he ever sings that one round about closing time ??

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: meself
Date: 20 Nov 98 - 05:33 PM

No I never hear Joe singing that one. But then, he's still writing songs and the ones he sings are more recent - and usually comical - though not without some political or social comment. I'm still trying to recall the name of another person "of no property", Brian...? sang "if they come in the morning" long before Christy Moore and does a great "The Entertainer" on the guitar.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: meself
Date: 20 Nov 98 - 05:39 PM

Brian Moore (not the novelist) (see previous message)

Keding has a point, and RUC will be different in a different political framework/atmosphere. But there is a lot of bigotry in the force too. It needs to be reformed, but that will be a big problem, not least because if peace obtains the numbers will be reduced and that has to be done at the same time as addressing the massive imbalance between Protestant (majority) and Catholic members of force. (remember that it's not just a question of religious belief but of background)Well, there's a discussion forum on the NI peace process at the Irish Times website, so I suppose we whould get back to the lyrical side of things at this site

slán

Subject: RUC a sectarian force in action
From: Aust
Date: 19 Feb 99 - 06:08 PM

If you have any questions on the RUC and its infamous history please read here: http://www.serve.com/pfc/index.html#policing

The RUC has been the subject of scathing criticism by such august bodies as Amnesty International and the the UN. Repoerts from both are available from the Pat Finucane site.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 99 - 06:54 PM

My dad always encouraged us to wear orange on St. Patrick's Day, when we were growing up in Colorado. I felt pretty fierce about things I did not understand when that young. Now, I am married to a man who was raised American/French Canadian Catholic, with French-speaking mornings/English afternoons in parochial school, all the way through high school. With age and experience, has come, hopefully, some grace and some understanding, with a bit of old-fashioned intolerance for the BS humankind perpetrates on its own kind!
Since we are having a discussion of fair civility, maybe you'd like to read an editorial I wrote last year, which was published in a few papers, including one which is national, by subscription. Before anybody says anything: yes, I am aware that we still have great inequities in the Unites States, but I was trying to make a point. Please, read on, you'll see what I mean:

"My oldest daughter, who is fair-skinned, had twin boys this May. She is married to a wonderful man whose skin is the colour of mahogany. So, their sons are of mixed race.
When my daughter, out with the babies alone, is asked if her husband is black, she replies, "He is Antiguan." Her fiercely stated view is that we are all of the human race. For her, no other race exists. This is how they will raise their sons. I am proud of her. I wish the whole world would join in.
When the world finally became aware of and decided to do something about apartheid in South Africa, things changed. It took some time, protests by students, and finally, boycotts by governments and individuals.
In Ballymoney, Ireland, last week's shameful fire bombing of three young Catholic boys, in their own home, may be the spark which could set off such worldwide sanctions against Ireland. According to the Belfast Telegraph tourism is off as much as 60% in Northern Ireland and an unnamed American company is seriously considering changing plans to make a major investment in Ireland.
According to reports, Ballymoney was a fairly peaceful spot, with Catholics and Protestants living side by side, working together and getting along. Now, its citizens are numb with grief, bewilderment, and some so fearful that they've not returned since that terrible night.
I believe the majority of Irish are eager for a peaceful resolution. They are ordinary folk who want to live their lives in the quiet riot of everyday life, with nothing worse to deal with than a grumpy boss, recalcitrant teen, the cost of groceries, and other such things.
How is it, then, that the very adults who are supposed to be leaders of the different factions, principally the Orange Order and the Catholic Residents Coalition can get away with acting like silly bantam roosters or bully children by refusing to even set foot in the same room during negotiations for peace?
Presumably they all claim to be Christian adults born in the twentieth century; followers of Jesus who preached of love, peace, and tolerance. That the Orangemen want to flaunt a victory from 1690 by parading through the Catholic neighborhood of Portadown is obscene, deadly and childish. Written just sixteen years after that battle, how ironic that the following by Jonathan Swift is so applicable to our times: "We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another".
Imagine if Yankees gathered every year to march through a particular bastion of the old Confederacy just to "rub their faces" in the dirt of defeat from over one hundred years ago. It took a hundred years of struggle and progress, but at least Americans learned to empower, not enslave; to live together in relative harmony and opportunity, even if it did have to be legislated.
Those Irish who would have the same thing happen in their country need to become the vocal majority. Failing that, it is time for individuals, businesses, human rights organizations, church officials of all faiths and their congregations, and governments to get serious about sending a message of no tolerance for the hatred and killing which has pitted countrymen against countrymen in a land of such beauty, history, soul, and sorrow."

Copyright 7/16/1998 by OoBraughLoo Press All rights reserved

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Feb 99 - 07:09 PM

Kat, your editorial is exquisite. It's a pleasure to be on Mudcat with you.

Rick

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: alison
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 01:26 AM

Hi,

I cringe every time I see that this thread has come back up again.........

but..... that was a good article Kat.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Roddy
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 05:09 AM

Why not have a political thread and leave the whingers and girners to their own sad and malevolent devices? This would leave space for musicians and other interested parties. Politics DOES indeed have a place on this thread, but only where it is informed by songs / music and does not become an end in itself. God Almighty, does anyone over in the States never read the papers ? There is a cease fire in operation. The "War" is over. Irish in heard in the corridors of Stormont, Gerry Adams speaks with David Trimble, the RUC walk the streets without flak jackets, even in Nationalist areas. When my son goes out at night the old fear of the knock at the door in the early hours to tell us bad news is gone. As for human rights - ask thoseCatholics who have been mercilessly bludgeoned by the IRA on the flimsiest of evidence how they feel about the "Defenders of the Nationalist People"!!! Roddy

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Paul
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 09:40 AM

As a serving RUC officer and traditional musician I am saddened to read of the entrenched views being aired on this forum. I am a catholic and play fiddle along with a few colleagues in a local session. The other muscians know what we work at, but this is left at the door when the instruments are brought out of the cases. We all get along well and enjoy the music together. Occasionally someone will play a few bars of 'Armoured Cars-' and follow it up with the 'Sash' all done with tounge firmly in cheek! There are other places for this sort of debate and music is sometimes linked to politics, but I liked Mudcat when it talked about music.

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 10:29 AM

Dear Roddy and Paul,

Sorry if my article offended you. I thought everyone would realize it was written last year, immediately after the bombing which killed those three boys. And, yes, I do read the news, on the Internet and our local rag. When I write my weekly column, my main goal is to 1) express my personal view based on research and 2)make people think, and hopefully talk about the issue.

I do realize there is a peace accord and I am very happy about it; but the article I read this week said there was still a problem with getting the IRA and the protestant paramilitary orgs. to agree to disarm.

Also, I agree with Mick; if we tried to cut out politics and still discuss music, esp. music of Ireland, we'd be in a sorry state, as that wouldn't leave a lot of choices.

Although, I wouldn't mind a political thread. As we do seem to be living in closer proximity, via cyberspace, we are becoming "one world" in a sense. I believe the more we can dailogue with one another, of like mind or no, the more we can learn about one another and begin to have peace throughout our planet. Our differences may define us, in some instances, but they do not have to divide us, unless we let them.

I am part of a group here, in Wyoming, which puts on a CultureFest, once per year, at which we present as many different cultural food, music, dance,and goods as possible to expose the people of this sometimes benighted state to something other than their white middle-class rancher/oilfield background. These Fests have been very successful and have included many different ethnic presentations, all of which were part of what formed Wyoming or what is making up Wyoming's population now. we're getting swamped right now with request to be in the one which will be this summer.

Thank you for listening. And, thanks to you, Alison and Rick, for your comments.

katlaughing aka Katey LaFrance

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: John Moulden
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 11:30 AM

The other member of the Men of No Property was Dave Scott- his background was more Socialist than Republican and the choice of tune (and therefore the song) would be more likely to have been his, but I'll ask Joe Mulheron (correct spelling) when next I see him.

John Moulden

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: Gearoid
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 03:05 AM

People Lets leave it out of Mudcat

You can probably see what side I'm on from looking at my name but I don't want to dicuss it here, None of us can sort anything out here. Leave the discussion in the pub where it can get heated and be forgotten the next morning. It doesn't belong here (there are other sites where you can discuss and debate this) Get on with the music Slan Gearoid

Subject: RE: MAN FROM THE R.U.C.
From: GUEST,Jack Conway
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 03:37 PM

The Men of No Property have three albums that are now available on CD. Brian Moore aka Cormac aka Brian Whoriskey passed away in March of this year. He was one of the true gentlemen of our times. He wrote so many great songs. Does anyone have any information on the rest of the Men of No Property? Joe Mulhern, Dave Scott, John Gray?? They used pseudonyms (for obvious reasons) when they recorded and I would love to know who was who in that group. Their work is virtually unique.

Subject: RE: Man From the R.U.C.
From: Felipa
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 05:46 AM

we can thank a spammer for reviving this discussion thread. Maybe Jack Conway got an answer somewhere else to his question. Joe Mulhern lives in Derry. He was a surveyor by profession. He is now the proprietor of a pub and he still sings at sessions from time to time. John Gray is a retired librarian and I have seen him online recently at history seminars. Dave Scott emigrated years ago (to Australia or NZ perhaps? I don't remember) and it's also a good few years since I heard he was dead. If anyone knows different re Dave Scott, s/he might let us know.