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Folksingers with phony identities

GUEST 03 Sep 01 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Little Jewford 03 Sep 01 - 04:26 PM
Amos 03 Sep 01 - 04:36 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Sep 01 - 04:39 PM
Liz the Squeak 03 Sep 01 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,AliUK on the works computer 03 Sep 01 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 03 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM
GUEST 03 Sep 01 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,John Nolan 03 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM
Cllr 03 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Hille 03 Sep 01 - 06:54 PM
Mr Red 03 Sep 01 - 06:54 PM
toadfrog 03 Sep 01 - 07:08 PM
GUEST 03 Sep 01 - 07:43 PM
Sorcha 03 Sep 01 - 07:44 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Sep 01 - 08:05 PM
GUEST, Dan 03 Sep 01 - 08:06 PM
Sorcha 03 Sep 01 - 08:19 PM
AliUK 03 Sep 01 - 08:23 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 03 Sep 01 - 08:26 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Sep 01 - 08:26 PM
GUEST, Dan 03 Sep 01 - 08:30 PM
artbrooks 04 Sep 01 - 12:17 AM
Robo 04 Sep 01 - 12:40 AM
Crazy Eddie 04 Sep 01 - 01:00 AM
Deni 04 Sep 01 - 01:31 AM
Mudlark 04 Sep 01 - 01:43 AM
KingBrilliant 04 Sep 01 - 05:31 AM
Terry K 04 Sep 01 - 06:58 AM
Steve Parkes 04 Sep 01 - 08:16 AM
clansfolk 04 Sep 01 - 08:17 AM
GUEST,AliUK on the works comp. 04 Sep 01 - 08:39 AM
Bat Goddess 04 Sep 01 - 08:40 AM
GUEST 04 Sep 01 - 08:57 AM
guinnesschik 04 Sep 01 - 09:45 AM
GUEST 04 Sep 01 - 09:46 AM
Steve Parkes 04 Sep 01 - 10:15 AM
Peg 04 Sep 01 - 10:40 AM
Big Mick 04 Sep 01 - 11:18 AM
GUEST 04 Sep 01 - 11:23 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Sep 01 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,john_lockhart@yahoo.com 04 Sep 01 - 12:50 PM
GUEST, phylophisationer 04 Sep 01 - 12:52 PM
Jeri 04 Sep 01 - 01:57 PM
catspaw49 04 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM
Bert 04 Sep 01 - 02:55 PM
SINSULL 04 Sep 01 - 03:03 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 04 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM
Jeri 04 Sep 01 - 04:47 PM
Mr Red 04 Sep 01 - 05:05 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Sep 01 - 05:15 PM
catspaw49 04 Sep 01 - 05:33 PM
Uncle_DaveO 04 Sep 01 - 06:28 PM
wysiwyg 04 Sep 01 - 06:38 PM
catspaw49 04 Sep 01 - 06:41 PM
wysiwyg 04 Sep 01 - 06:43 PM
CRANKY YANKEE 04 Sep 01 - 07:02 PM
CRANKY YANKEE 04 Sep 01 - 07:29 PM
Bert 04 Sep 01 - 08:21 PM
catspaw49 04 Sep 01 - 09:22 PM
Bill D 04 Sep 01 - 10:37 PM
Bert 04 Sep 01 - 11:14 PM
Bill D 04 Sep 01 - 11:22 PM
Bert 04 Sep 01 - 11:44 PM
Sorcha 05 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM
Troll 05 Sep 01 - 12:24 AM
Sorcha 05 Sep 01 - 12:35 AM
john c 05 Sep 01 - 02:01 AM
Steve Parkes 05 Sep 01 - 03:38 AM
GUEST,Guest-MC Fat 05 Sep 01 - 08:12 AM
Ella who is Sooze 05 Sep 01 - 08:24 AM
clansfolk 05 Sep 01 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Genie 05 Sep 01 - 10:41 PM
GUEST,Genie 05 Sep 01 - 10:44 PM
Steve Parkes 06 Sep 01 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,Genie 07 Sep 01 - 12:09 AM
catspaw49 07 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM
GUEST,Genie 07 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM
catspaw49 07 Sep 01 - 12:16 AM
bob jr 07 Sep 01 - 01:43 AM
Melani 07 Sep 01 - 10:31 PM
Jack the Sailor 08 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 11 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Elmore 16 Apr 11 - 11:22 AM
Mark Ross 16 Apr 11 - 11:44 AM
PHJim 16 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM
The Sandman 16 Apr 11 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,AEOLA 16 Apr 11 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 11 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 17 Apr 11 - 04:24 PM
Art Thieme 17 Apr 11 - 09:34 PM
frogprince 17 Apr 11 - 09:57 PM
Roger the Skiffler 18 Apr 11 - 06:04 AM
kendall 18 Apr 11 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 18 Apr 11 - 10:04 AM
Arkie 18 Apr 11 - 10:17 AM
Jim Dixon 18 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 18 Apr 11 - 10:51 AM
Steve Parkes 18 Apr 11 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 18 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM
The Sandman 18 Apr 11 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 18 Apr 11 - 03:24 PM
kendall 18 Apr 11 - 08:19 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Apr 11 - 08:26 PM
Musket 19 Apr 11 - 04:11 AM
Joe Offer 19 Apr 11 - 04:28 AM
GUEST,Mark Bluemel 19 Apr 11 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,ollaimh 19 Apr 11 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 22 Apr 11 - 04:32 AM
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Subject: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 04:22 PM

I always thought that folk music was the music of "real" people but I've seen that some folksingers have recreated themselves with phony identities or characters. Some of them include:

Ramblin' Jack Elliott (Elliott Adnopoz), the son of a Jewish doctor from New York;

Bob Dylan (Robert Zimmerman), the son of a Jewish appliance store owner from Minnesota;

Utah Phillips (Bruce Cohen), the son of a Jewish movie theater owner from Ohio.

Are these people ashamed of who they are? Is being Jewish not acceptable for a folksinger?


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Little Jewford
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 04:26 PM

That's right, we have to cover up our Judaism. The reason that Jack, Bob and Utah all wear hats is so that you goys don't see the horns.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 04:36 PM

Judaism has nothing to do with it!! It is a matter of simple economics and market perception. These guys all created identities which resonated with the heroes of folk music in the English language, which is predominantly a legacy of Anglo Saxon types -- including those who wrote most of the Childes' ballads, the cowboy songs, the chanties, plough-songs, pioneer songs, Appalachian tunes, moonshining music, railroading songs, drunk brawl ballads and chanties and love songs and rebel tunes which make up the mass of that legacy. If you're going to sell records in Rome, sing as the Romans sing. You'll sell more records that way then sweating in a niche category trying to have a global impact.

This is a statistical observation, not a political or sociological issue.

A


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 04:39 PM

Guest, who started this thread,... Although I am not Jewish, you are courteous encouraged, BY ME, to spend the rest of an exquisite (for the rest of us) eternity in that sacred and exclusive region expressly set aside for the eternal damnation of the souls of people who have SO much in common with you... ttr


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 04:50 PM

Not only Jewish people, Ewan McColl, regarded by some as the founding father of the present day folk revival, totally reinvented not only his name, but his employment history, his lifestyle and entire past. The only person to surpass this work of biographical fiction was L Ron Hubbard!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,AliUK on the works computer
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 04:52 PM

hmmm. Inflamatory thread? I think Bob actually used the name Dylan in homage of his favourite Poet Dylan Thomas. I honestly believe that he didn't actually start out to make a quick buck, but was/is genuinely interested in his heritage. And heritage he has, for though his birthright is jewish he is also a North American, and he has the right of all North Americans to explore their own traditions. I suspect that with Ramblin'Jack and Utah the reason was the same. And I wouldn't say that they are phoney identities but certainly nome-de-plumes/guerre, which has been a tradition in itself for many centuries.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM

Don't quote me on this but I think McColl was born Jimmy Miller in Salford


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:15 PM

Ian McGeachie annoyed a lot of people in Glasgow, years ago, when he took off for London and became The Folksinger John Martyn. Bad enough changing his name, but sticking a "y" in for an "i" - well I'll be knocked down, hog-tied, horse-whupped, dipped and double-dipped in dog shit, as Mick Broderick of the Whistlebinkies used to say.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,John Nolan
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM

Last entry was JN with a wiped out cookie


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Cllr
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM

indeed Jimmy Miller it was, but I'll forgive him for some of his rather strange ideas if for nothing else because of the wonderful singing of his daughter.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Hille
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:54 PM

Strangely enough, we thought we'd try a phony identity down at our club this week. It apparently involves me having my hair in plaits and wearing a t-shirt with the legend "Britney" on it. (I think it's been done before, yawn.....) but, apparently, anything for a laugh, so, in the end it all comes down to marketing, one way or another..


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:54 PM

Jimmy Miller was, I believe, born in Glasga and of Scottish parents who, perforce, had to find work and Salford (aka Dirty Old Town) was the nearest ---- to their hearts!
So said Tam Kearney who ran the Fiddlers Green FC in Toronto upto the late 80's.
It is also said that E.McC put in his book of songs (published under his nom de guerre) about some if not most songs - "from the singing of Jimmy Miller"! Psuedonyms have a use!!!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: toadfrog
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 07:08 PM

It does bug me that people strike poses and take on phoney identities to sing folk songs. On the other hand, threads with anti-semetic overtones, signed by "GUEST," bug me a whole lot more.

By the way, two of my favorite Anglo-Saxon folksingers are named John Cohen and Tracy Schwarz.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 07:43 PM

At least Cohen and Schwartz don't hide their Jewish names.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 07:44 PM

:>(


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:05 PM

I found the most delightful CD (at my local thrift store) called "LIBERTY HORSES"... and the twa brothers on it are Ewan and Peggy's sons. Kitty, their sister is also on it, and I am quite fascinated by it. It isn't 'folk', but pop/rock, and could have commercial appeal... Great music of the genera it occupies, and it is so good for me to hear what they are up to... Also, has anyone ever heard of a pop band called "THE BIBLE"? It seems the MacColl brothers were in it... and in the states, I have found no reference to them at all....ttr


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST, Dan
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:06 PM

At a Neil Young concert recently I was quite surprised to hear him tell a vignette about his daddy the farmer when introducing "Daddy Went Walking." Unless I'm losing my marbles, his dad was a newspaper editor for the Toronto Sun (Star?) and wrote a book called "Neil and Me" which is in my garage somewhere. Country is decidedly cool.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:19 PM

Wow, the weather here is really getting hot again. Tomatoes and peppers ripening fast. I am going to be canning my butt of this week!

The Briard puppies, (4) and the Basenji puppies (3) are all doing well; growing sooo fast; new homes soon!

The transmission is going out on my car; name of John Lee, anybody want to volunteer to come fix it? (The Wrench's Mother...........)


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: AliUK
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:23 PM

since when has Neil Young been Country? He's Neil Young and great in any genre.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:26 PM

Guest-Why the concern with peoples names/identities? I notice you dont share yours.john in hull


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:26 PM

Harvest Moon is pretty close in my estimation...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST, Dan
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 08:30 PM

AliUK: I didn't say he was country I don't know what you're talking about. And don't give me any crap I named my son after him. Tell it to someone else.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 12:17 AM

Hummm...Jewish guy named Cohen marries a shicksa named McGuire...kids are named Cohen but they aren't considered Jewish any more by "observant" Jews. Do that a few more times and even Brother Adolph would let them pass by. Schwartz...isn't that German for black? Does GUEST think everyone named Black, in any language, is Jewish?

BTW, Utah Phillips was once Bruce Phillips, and he was even "U. Utah Phillips, the Golden Voice of the Golden West" at one point. At least he HAS a name!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Robo
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 12:40 AM

I thought Utah was actually from West Virginia?


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 01:00 AM

I thought Virginia Woolf was from Utah?


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Deni
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 01:31 AM

Don't take it too seriously. It's only showbusiness and there are as many 'real' and 'phoney' people there as in any other walk of life.

Deni


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 01:43 AM

Personally, I could care less about a folksinger's background. All I ask of a musician is that they honor the music they sing/play, that they perform with passion and heart and an authentic emotional connection with their material. I still remember talking with Utah Phillips at a party....can still see him, arms outstretched, pretending to drive a 16-wheeler. Did he ever drive a semi? Hell, I don't care. He's a story teller! And he tells well.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 05:31 AM

A friend of mine invented a phony Country songwriter, being a little embarassed to admit to writing his own songs. He never actually used the invention though, as none of us could say 'Slim Hoofnagle' without cracking up. Many happy hours of joy we had in contemplating it though. In the end it was easier to confess to having written his song himself.

Kris PS - we also in the end thought it might have seemed like taking the piss out of the audience, what d'you reckon?


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Terry K
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:58 AM

AliUK says Bob chose Dylan "in homage of his favourite poet Dylan Thomas".

Bob is actually claimed to have said he chose Dylan because of Matt Dillon - his favourite TV western character at the time. He's also quoted as saying "I did more for Dylan Thomas than he ever did for me". So there!

Cheers, Terry


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:16 AM

Our family name was actually Kissinger, but my dad changed it to Collins in the 50s to avoid creditors. When they caught up with him he changed it to Wilson, and then again to Webb, and finally to Parkes, which seems to have done the trick. You can still hear people in Walsall say "I wonder who's Kissinger now?"

Steve


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: clansfolk
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:17 AM

Why pick on individuals????

Why not all these groups/bands of people who get together to make music and then take a collective name instead of keeping their own names????? ;-p

Brian Dewhurst from Lancashire, England worked for years under his own name with groups such as the Wayfarers then when became "famous" and starting doing television he had to apply for an equity card and as there was already an artist with the name Brian Dewhurst on their membership list - Brian had to change his surname - choosing Preston to replace it! This could be one reason why people take on a stage name.

Hasn't it always been so in the entertainment industry? Though I expect in the early days of stage etc... it was done more to protect the individuals family and friends from the shame - don't put your daughter on the stage Mrs Worthington and comments such as getting a real job spring to mind.

Anyhow - a rose by any other name etc.....

clansfolk - oops - Pete


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,AliUK on the works comp.
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:39 AM

Terry, is that true Interesting story, I did'[t know that. You learn something new everyday. Dan? Sorry I misunderstood a thousand apologies and a fine name to give to your son. Though I see nothing wrong with country music, so your reaction was a little extreme I tought.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:40 AM

Other fine traditional singers who happen to be Jewish are Helen Schneyer and Dave Diamond. I certainly don't think disguising one's origins is necessary as a career enhancer. (What is this? Hollywood?)

And speaking of changing identities, I remember when Ed Gerhard was Driveway Wilson -- but fer-gawd's-sake, don't tell him I remember!!!

Bat Goddess


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:57 AM

I thought the band The Bible was Boo Hewerdine's band before he became Eddi Reader's musical partner...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: guinnesschik
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:45 AM

Kinky Friedman is also a fairly tradional "country" singer who also happens to be a Texan.

*grins sheepishly and ducks*


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:46 AM

I don't think folks did it to hide their Judaism. I think Amos is right. I don't know Utah Philips story , but, Bob and Jack wanted to be rough and tumble, western , hard knocks type heroes like their mutual hero Woody Guthrie, who told some tall tales of his own. I believe both men know damn well who they are, where they came from, and there isn't any shame involved.
I also believe that it is a shame that aliens need to show up for us all to recognize that we are members of the same race, the human one. Stupid Earthlings.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:15 AM

There's a well-established precedent: Abram (Big Daddy) changed his name to Abraham (Father of the Nation).


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Peg
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:40 AM

steve parkes; there was a similar joke around a few years back...about a woman who,m owing to various marital choices, would eventually wind up as as Wanda Hughes Kissinger...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:18 AM

Ahhh..........I love my Mudcatters!! Here we have another of the miscreants, using a legitimate topic, baiting it with anti semitism........then sitting back and waiting for the predictable outrage. And what happens? No one bites..........a couple even point out the inconsistency of one who refuses to name themselves complaining about a phony identity. And by the way.........don't you supposedly brilliant manipulators of all us poor, simple unfortunates generally adopt "cute" Guest names? You are not nearly as smart as you think you are, and the good citizens of this village have you pegged.

And best of all............they hijacked the thread back to the subject. I love it!!

I am not sure why these folks adopted a different ID, but I think the answer can be found in the times. Stage names were not at all uncommon. Remember that during the late 40's, the 50's, and into the 60's, for marketing purposes the stage name was used that promoted you to the market you were trying to reach. The middle class was burgeoning, so you didn't want to be in any way controversial. Even the supposed counter culture artists would try to appeal to marketing. In middle class America was the market place. I am not sure what the answer is, but I suspect it is a combination of all those factors such as anti semitism, marketing, pressure from the record company exec's........and so on.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:23 AM

Ali: Yeah I was grumpy last night, eh? Maybe I was disappointed in Neil rather than myself or you. (Actually I know who has me on edge but that's a different story.) Regards Dan (I'll dig that book out, someday, and maybe find that his Dad did plant potatoes or something.)


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 12:35 PM

Or... Why don't we all just post with our real names, and make public who we are, where we live, et all... I believe that privacy is also a concern... Then again, a lot of the flaming and harshly provocative "GUEST" posts would be eliminated if we had to post under our home phone number...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,john_lockhart@yahoo.com
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 12:50 PM

Clansfolk, thanks for the info on Brian Dewhurst - I was wondering what had happened to him - I remember him in the 70's in the North of England, and he was one of the best, a good singer and a great guy.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST, phylophisationer
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 12:52 PM

Are you talking to me? Are you talking to ME?

Look, I just apologized for a cavil about as big as a boil on a gnat's ass. I live on Terwilliger Blvd. And, no, you can't have my phone number.

Dan


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 01:57 PM

Steve Parkes, that was HORRIBLE! (You have my admiration.)

Sort of gives us an idea why people change their names, if people care more for the names than the people and what they've accomplised. And this coming from someone who doesn't use ANY name! I'm shocked, I tell you - shocked!

You know, we ought to start a permathread on all the classic wind-ups so people won't have to keep trying them over and over. Then again, maybe not.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM

Gawd I love being gone for awhile....Such nutso shit to return to!!!

Names are great things to change........I knew a guy named Smith that went by Jablonski. Who cares?

Patterson isn't my actual name either......One of those wonderful Ellis Island things from an Italian name the guy couldn't understand so........

My Dad's best friend was Joe Pickenstein....sounds Jewish, but one look at the family and the Italian is unmistakable. Joe's gone now, but his son Mark (my best friend in childhood) recently met a Marcellus Pickenstein who had done the entire geneology thing......They live in Northern Italy, have lived there for several centuries, but originally came from Germany.......

I'm thinking that Mick oughta' change his name from "Lane" to "Spudnuts."

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 02:55 PM

Hey Spaw, I've got a recipe for spudnuts.

BTW what would you (and other Mudders) choose as a stage name. None of this formula stuff though, the 'Limp Banana Bush' theme has been done to death.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 03:03 PM

I'm leaning towards "TaterTots" myself. Just read that Hank Snow chose Hank because it sounded "country". Worked for him - a Canadian. My name was changed from Sinclair to Mary because of the miracle of my birth. I have been pissed ever since. Does that make me an anti-Papist? Or only if I become famous?


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM

john in hull is my real name, although I am no relation to Les, rob, Paul or any other hull's.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 04:47 PM

I was Djiryl on AOL (yes, I confess to having been an A-OLer). It was after Gordon Bok's 'Seal Djiril's Hymn' only I spelled it wrong, and probably have done so again. I figure if there really were such a thing as seal people, then I probably would have some selkie genes. I used to practically live in the water, and my nose is cold and wet most of the time. (who's going for the cheap shot?)


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 05:05 PM

Just a thought - how many catters regard themselves as folksingers and how many of them hide behind yet more bizarre names?

My answer machine message is a short song - My God I must be a folksinger with a phoney identity.
GUILTY as charged and unrepentant.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 05:15 PM

Was Woody actually Woody or was he ....Woodrow?

Was Hank Willaims.... Henry?

What about Bill Haley and the Comets? I don't think..... those guys..... were actually.... Comets!!!

My impression of Captain Kirk discovering this conspiracy....


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 05:33 PM

Hmmmmmm............

Punk Rocker -- Zenier Diode
Folkie -- Tim Cummings
Irish -- Dickie O'Toole (Double Phallic)
Lounge -- Larry Limpdich
Opera -- Carmine Lugnuts
Country -- Billyjoejimbob McCoy
Blues -- Blind Wailin' Screamin' Peach Fuckin' White Guy

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:28 PM

The name me sainted mither gave me was David Oesterreich.

I am 70 years old now, and don't expect, under any name whatever, to be making a quick buck out of "folk" singing.

Howsomever, I am now performing as DaveO, for reasons that might be obvious to some.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:38 PM

mISSED GOSPEL, sPAW.

~s~

damn capslock!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:41 PM

The Reverend Gaylord Farquard

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:43 PM

Bingo. And the Farquettes. Farqueens?

BLACK gospel of course.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 07:02 PM

Hank Williams' name was King- Hiram Williams

My name was Joseph Paul Katzberg, the name given to me by my parents in 1029. My dad's name, on his birth certificate, was Joseph. His Hebrew name was Zahkharia but he went by the name of Archie his whole life and that was his legal name. I'm not a lawyer but a lot of my friends are and one of them told me once that the law says that you are who you say you are, unless you're perpetrating a fraud. So, my friend, (and I use the term with my tongue in my cheek)there is no such thing as a folksinger with a phoney identity. The name identifies the person.

As for me, in 1947 (or so) when I decided to adopt a stage name, no one wanted to hear the kind of music I wanted to sing, sung by a guy named Katzberg. (This is no longer the case) So I adopted the name Joe Gordon which quickly became Joe Gibson. I named myself after my guitar, which was a Martin. However, Joe Martin, at the time, was Speaker of the U.S.House of Representatives, and not wanting to be confused with this honorale man, I chose the name of another guitar maker of equal quality.

Along about 1955 or so, Another Hillbilly singer (I was singing Hillbilly music at the time) named Joe Gibson surfaced in New Jersey. (He eventually faded into obscurity) I was working with a group who's fiddle player, named "Fiddlin' Gene Merrits" had been calling me "Jody" anyway, so I became Jody Gibson. My first record, which was a big hit and changed the way people sang "Muleskinner Blues", was named "Good Morning Captain" it was released in 1957, but my EX manager didn't think Jody was a real name, so the name on the TETRA lable is "Joe D. Gibson" Actually, "Jody" is the American spelling of "Geordie" which is short for George. In Geordie-land (Northumbria) "Geordie" is pronounced, "Jody".

For the life of me, I don't know why I'm writing this long song and dance, except that (another of my names)as "King Nubuchednezer", I do Babble-on.

Actually,"GO PISS UP A ROPE" will suffice as a rebuttal. And, Guest with no identity, if you are Female, tha should take you quite a while to do.

Just think, all those couples in the past had no idea that they were naming their little girl babies "George". As in "Geordie" Foster, who is one damned good actor, but she does have a funny name, for a girl.

And then there is "Mississippi-Blind-Preacher-Leadbottom-Moms.who's real name is Donna Gibson, and is my darling wife, and author of that great song, 'BLUEBLOOD BLUES" (next post, AOL is about to kick me off)


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Subject: Lyr Add: BLUEBLOOD BLUES (Donna and Jody Gibson)
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 07:29 PM

BLUEBLOOD BLUES
Donna and Jody Gibson

(Spoken introduction) Someone once told me, "You got to suffer to sing the blues". Hell, I ain't ever suffered. I've never been deprived of anything, and, Lord, I want to sing the blues, but...

1. My mama's in the D.A.R., she wears twenty-five-hundred-dollar Gucci shoes. (2x)
But if she was a barefoot laundress, whooooah, I could really sing the blues.

2. My daddy's a Wall-Street broker; see him on the evening news, (2x)
But if he was a sha-a-a-auh-r cropper, wow, could I sing them blues.

3. I got twenty-twenty vision, never spent a day in jail (2x)
But if God would only strike me blind, hoooah, then I could really wail.

4. If I could find a way to suffer, I know I could sing the blues, (2x)
So I'm gonna tear up all my credit cards and beat myself 'till I'm black and blue.

5. One day I asked my mammy, "Mammy, how do you sing the blues?"
I said, "Mammy, mammy, mammy. Momm-oh, how do you sing them blues?"
(Spoken) And she said, "It's not 'mammy' you ninny, it's 'nanny' and I haven't the foggiest notion."


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 08:21 PM

I love allovvem Spaw.

My turn



Punk Rocker -- Pink Shirt Shit Shoveller
Folkie -- Tom the Piercer
Irish -- Pat Mabottom
Lounge -- Albert Smoothtubes
Opera -- Enrico Pirelli
Country -- Burt "Pickup" Honeybum
Blues -- Sleepy Squealin' Featherbelly
Gospel -- Uncle Lewis Helpusall
Rugby -- Hairy Herbert Scrummer

BTW - loved your story Cranks ol mate


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:22 PM

A nice lot you have there too Bert! I think someone may actually use that Gospel one if you'd suggest it somewhere.....LOL!!

Crank, that's a great story man......You've told it before, but it's still a great story. Don't worry about that though since a lot of us here tell the same tired ass crap over and over......like me......and Art......and Bert. It's an age thing and the result of too much exposure to vile, foamy, liquids......Causes CRS Syndrome. That means "Can't Remember Shit." Bert has it real bad.........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:37 PM

IRS..."I remember shit" I remember LOTS of it....and it's all about as sorted & organized as my hard drive with 5 gigs of crap in 934 directories...

guess I need more memory installed...*grin*...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:14 PM

CRS - ME!!! Never.

Bill D. Don't mention those guys around here or I'll set LTS on you.

Bill D, Bill D??? hmmm, why do I keep thinking of a Barbie Doll?


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:22 PM

I'll confess, I have NO idea, Bert...perhaps you NEED one...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:44 PM

Barbie was ripped off from a German doll called "Bild Lilli".


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM

YOU GUYS ARE ALL CRAZY!!!!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Troll
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 12:24 AM

What's yer point, Sorch?

troll


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 12:35 AM

No point, troll, I'm crazy too, or I wouldn't be here, now would I? (grin)


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: john c
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 02:01 AM

Hey - I was a bit late catching up on this thread, but was that THE Little Jewford that posted the second message???????
I mean the You´re-Welcome-Kinky Little Jewford and worlds second-best kazoo player???
WOW!!!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 03:38 AM

My cousin's family name is Woodcock. He got so annoyed about all the "jokes" when he was at school he swore he'd change it when he grew up. Now it's Okehampton.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Guest-MC Fat
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 08:12 AM

Now ya talking the great Kingster actually has a song called ' They ain't making Jews like Jesus any more !!' Great detective books too !! Alter ego's were also good from the singing gynacolgist Hank Wangford, he had Milton Keynes, Manly Footwear and Senorita Irma Cetas in his band. His first rule of country music was good ' Be sincere and if you can't be sincere then just fake it'


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 08:24 AM

whoaaa Steve... what a coincidence... my dad also made a reference to Oakhampton pun yesterday...

two references in one day...

wonder if people got it...

E


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: clansfolk
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 08:25 AM

Guest - John Lockhart

Brian is alive and well after several problems over the last few years...... I was on the bill with him at the Fylde Folk Festival this weekend and he was his usual jovial self playing and singing as good as ever - amongst others I was playing in the Ian Gartside Band (aka Willy and the Poorboys) Ian you may remember played along side Brian in the Wayfarers back in the 60's/early 70's - good old days - when I was playing in the Brewers (later The "Two Brewers")

Pete


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 10:41 PM

Woody Guthrie was Woodrow Wilson Guthrie (born while Woodrow Wilson was running for his first term). Apparently, his mother was the only person who ever routinely called him "Woodrow."
Genie

Some other 'fake' identities: Irving Berlin (Israel Balin)
George and Ira Gershwin (the family name was something like Gerskowitz, and Ira was originally Izzy, I think)
Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)
O'Henry (William Sidney Porter)
Sting (Gordon Sumner?)
Ringo Starr (Richard Starkey)
The Big Bopper (can't recall his real name right now
Kris Kristofferson ( he took the name from a Garbo movie )
Paul Stookey ( he's Noel Paul Stookey -- friends call him Noel, but he used the first name because "Peter, Noel, and Mary" just didn't have that certain ring )
Crystal Gayle (That's her first and middle name, not her first and last name)
Leadbelly (Huddie Ledbetter)
Poor Richard (Benjamin Franklin)

OK, I'll quit.

--- Replaced the <br>'s with <br>'s ---
---Jeff (PA)---


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 10:44 PM

Looks like I still don't know how to separate the lines, so I'll give up for now. Sorry


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:36 AM

Genie, use <BR> for line breaks; looks like you missed off the "R" and got a bold tag instead.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 12:09 AM

Steve, do you do the <B> just by using the keyboard? I tried that and it didn't work. Do I have to do something like compose it in Word first, copy it, and paste it into the forum? (Word has commands for breaks like that, but I haven't found any way to enter <B> while I'm in the forum, except for typing it.)

But you're saying that I probably typed <B> by accident, right? That would explain it.

Thanks.<B> Genie

"<" changed to "&lt;" and ">" changed to "&gt;" - JoeClone 17-Sep-2008.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM

Genie, Have you read the HTML section of the FAQ? You can practice on some "HTML Practice threads we always have.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM

Well, using the keyboard did not work in my posting above. It completely ignored my attempt to type a B with the arrows around it. (It neither shows up nor works as a command.)

One correction: Irving Berlin (Israel Baline)

Genie

Jeff, Thanks for correcting my formatting problems, but the following does not make sense to me:

"--- Replaced the
's with
's --- ---Jeff (PA)---"


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 12:16 AM

Here is the HTML Permathread.......CLICK HERE

I'll refresh a practice thread right now.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: bob jr
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 01:43 AM

what bout noel stokey didnt he change his name to paul something or other just to sell out ? and bert llyod? those folk singers just trying to make an extra buck by changing thier names for cash i am gonna stick with rap music where everyone keeps the name they was born wit


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Melani
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 10:31 PM

Actually, I'm really Mary, Queen of Scots, but I was hoping you guys wouldn't find out...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

CRANKY YANKEE

I enjoyed your song and dance. Interesting little story and right on the point. Keep singing and dancing!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:47 AM

'Guest from Sanity' is really....Hey!..Where am I??..Where's my computer????

I hate when this happens!..or is it, 'I hate when that happens!


GfS


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Elmore
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 11:22 AM

This thread is total b.s. Utah Phillips was an important and much loved figure on the folk scene of the late twentieth and early twenty-first century. Nothing else matters.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Mark Ross
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 11:44 AM

Bruce Phillips's father was Edwin Phillips, who divorced Bruce's mother around 1940. She later remarried to a Sid Cohen, who moved the family to Salt Lake City around 1947 when Bruce was about 11 years old.

Utah used to announce on stage that his REAL name was Zipper, but he changed it when he got into the music biz. He couldn't see the headline in the trade papers, "ZIPPER OPENS IN CHICAGO".

There was one night when he told that joke on stage, and his fly was open!

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM

Salvatore Massaro - Eddie Lang - Blind Willie Dunn
McKinley Morganfield - Muddy Waters (Some claim his real name was Jeff Luke)
Saunders Terrell - Sonny Terry
Walter Brown - Brownie McGhee
Declan Patrick MacManus - Elvis Costello
Albert Luandrew - Sunnyland Slim

William Royce - Boz Scaggs
Richard Lee "Ricky" Skaggs
I recall reading a story about Ricky Skaggs and Boz Scaggs meeting in a recording studio. Ricky wondered if they might be related and Boz said that Scaggs was a stage name. Ricky said something like,"People have suggested that I change my name FROM Skaggs, but why would anyone want to change it TO Scaggs?"

And, believe it or not, Engelbert Humperdinck's real name is Arnold George Dorsey.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 01:25 PM

ellis mcdaniels, bo diddley


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 05:46 PM

PHONEY IDENTITIES?? PEOPLE USE THEM EVERY DAY, ESPECIALLY WHEN QUESTIONED BY THE AUTHORITIES. P.S. BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU BY OVER THE INTERNET OR SUPERMARKET USING A CARD, SOMEONE MIGHT ASSUME YOUR IDENTITY!


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 07:39 PM

Aeola: ". P.S. BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU BY OVER THE INTERNET OR SUPERMARKET USING A CARD, SOMEONE MIGHT ASSUME YOUR IDENTITY!"


I think that is just an assumption!

GfS


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 04:24 PM

Of course Napoleon's real name was Napoleon Higginbottom. But he changed it to Napoleon Bonaparte because he thought that Bonaparte was cooler than Higginbottom. He was a Catholic but not, as far as I know, Jewish.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 09:34 PM

I knew it'd be bogus as all hell to change my name for the sake of image. But to get closer to the artistic examples set by Woody, I simply placed several pieces of coal in my boots so I might experience the pain he had in his life. I hoped that angst would lead to writing a few songs that were something like his. -- Alas, I found little of worth in any of the 3 songs I wrote during my life.

When Carol and I first met back in 1966, I, at first, told her my name was Art Guthrie. She being a generation younger than me, I made no points with her at all by telling her that! --- She'd never heard of Woody Guthrie. When I tried to tell her my name was Art Thieme, she didn't believe me!
No matter, we were married in January of '67. We still are married even though I am now a Jewish Atheist Folksinger -- and she turned into a Jehovah's Witness along the way. Go figure...

But for that one day I was a "Jewish folksinger --- who changed his name to Guthrie." That must be why this thread feels so comfortable to me tonight.

What a tangled web we weave.

Many friends tell me that, even though I'm an atheist, because my mother was Jewish, I am also Jewish too. So be it. What the hell. Still, I always tell them that, my father loved to drink booze, but that doesn't make me licorice,, does it?!

ART THIEME


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 09:57 PM

Gilbert Vandine Houston.
(I tend to think of my wife as my buddy Cisco; I can write a little stuff, if not quite at Woody's level, but it takes her to really sing it well.)


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 06:04 AM

I'm not a folk singer -or any kind of singer, as anyone who has heard me will attest- so I hide as Tonedeaf Lime Clinton for the blues and Thimbles O'Hooligan (thanks to Fatb*****d for that) for skiffle. Gets around the restraining orders.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:08 AM

In this WASP society that we live in I would never change my name because there is no reason to.
Now, if my name was Lipshitz, like a local car dealer, I would change it.

Many movie stars did it>
Robert Taylor...Spangler Arlington Baugh
John Wayne......Marion Morrison
Tony Curtis.....Bernie Schwartz

I see nothing phony about it.but, if Tony Curtis went around telling everyone that he was John Wayne, that would be phony.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:04 AM

Here, Kendall, two more:

Bing Crosby--Harry Lillis
Cary Grant--Archibald Alexander Leach

GfS


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Arkie
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:17 AM

Getting back to folk musicians who changed their names. James Corbitt Morris adopted the name Jimmy Driftwood for performances and recordings and later legally changed his name. While Jimmy may not have been, technically, a folk musician since he wrote most of his songs he did adapt a number of folk songs and borrowed from the folk tradition. The tune for his most popular song was borrowed. He was also well versed in Ozark folk traditions, both from experience and from interviews and from reading.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM

The internet is a funny place to complain about people using phony identities, especially in a forum where 99% of people use made-up "handles" instead of their real names.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:51 AM

""became "famous" and starting doing television he had to apply for an equity card and as there was already an artist with the name Brian Dewhurst on their membership list - Brian had to change his surname - choosing Preston to replace it! This could be one reason why people take on a stage name.""

Yes, it's true......As did Martin Long, the Kentish Folk singer, now known as Martin Young.

But of course the OP is not interested in this. He/she is just out for a days' Jew Baiting.



Don T.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 01:50 PM

Funnily enough, Napoleon really did change his name. He was originally N. Buonaparte.

The Artist Formerly Known As Steve Parkes


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM

100..and I have NO identity!!(on here, that is)

GfS


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 02:26 PM

Dick Miles' real name is Richard Miles.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 03:24 PM

Any relation to Michael Miles?
(You didn't shake your head, did you?)


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:19 PM

Vernon Dalhart...Marion T. Slaughter


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:26 PM

"The internet is a funny place to complain about people using phony identities, especially in a forum where 99% of people use made-up "handles" instead of their real names. "

And on a board where many delight in not having membership so that can try to hide their identity further ...


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Musket
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:11 AM

Many folk singers here in The UK get income from acting too. Bernard Wrigley spotting is a folkie equivalent of Eddie Stobart spotting I suppose. Luckily for him, nobody in Equity had that name when he registered.

Brian Dewhurst became Brian Preston. How long before somebody makes mental leaps about Preston sounding better, more Northern gritty etc when it was more to do with the fact you can't live on folk club gigs?

I used to waffle on about Ewan McColl being a bit of a fraud, despite the fact I also refer to him as the 20th century bard. I was honoured to have written an obituary that was published in a number of periodicals. If you see Ewan McColl as a product to be marketed, it is less of a fraud and more of show business. A bit like Tom Jones having knickers thrown at him whilst gyrating his hips, and then going home to his wife and letting the dog out.


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 04:28 AM

Please remember that the original message was posted in 2001. Such a message would be deleted nowadays, because we've become more sophisticated in our treatment of anonymous messages.
Back in those days, we had one or more people who seemed to like to post anti-Semitic messages. I wish this thread had not been refreshed. I should have closed the thread Way Back When.
Can't say I'm fond of people who refresh old, nasty threads.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 05:00 AM

"A bit like Tom Jones having knickers thrown at him whilst gyrating his hips, and then going home to his wife and letting the dog out."

Is "letting the dog out" a euphemism for something? It sounds like it should be...

[I would tell you my real name but then I'd have to kill you]


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 11:27 AM

i get riled at ewan macoll. he was a lowlander, not a gael. (they call us scotts gaels highlanders but fyi we din't call ourselves that. we called ourselves gaelic--sometimes spelt gaidhlig.

lowlanders have almost nothing culturally to do with the gaidhlig people and they sold us out at thew frist opportunity. which is why we are mostly in nova scotia now.

mccoll was part of the lallans movement. they adopted wholesale many items of gaidhlig cylture to appear more "scottish". the last stage of british imperialism. we can take your culture too!!!

i like many of his songs and many of the causes he supported but to title it all with such blatant cultural appropriation is disgusting and the arrogance of lowanders and english. they use gaelic traditions all the time to "enhance their cred" and are unconscious to the ignorance and irony. i see it in the pagan world, the folk world and the historical recreation world.

and at the troubador club dcades ago i was told bya lowlander that i wasn\t scottish and shouldn't sing in gaelic--he did because although he couldn't speak a word he memorized a song chorus. at the vancouver folk cong society i was told gaelic wasn't canadian by one leader, and that i wasn't scottish by another. here on muscat jim ladd made fun of my handle (itsgaidhlig) while claiming to have lived in cape breton and steeped hinself in celtic culture. mccolls ideas about singing from your own tradition were so twisted and contradictory to start that they spawned a monster.people picked up these ideas without thinking them through and become more bigoted against real ethnic groups when doing so. proving my belief--long in coalessing--that the middle class anglos will recreate their bigotry and ignorance every generation.they canfind a new politically correct way to get you every generation.

i have nothing against show biz. its show biz, but when you are stealing other people culture try not to lecture or posture as holy


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Subject: RE: Folksingers with phony identities
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:32 AM

"I used to waffle on about Ewan McColl being a bit of a fraud, despite the fact I also refer to him as the 20th century bard. I was honoured to have written an obituary that was published in a number of periodicals."

I hope that you spelled his name right in the obituary!


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Mudcat time: 25 September 9:23 PM EDT

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