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Help: hopeful for Lord Ellenwater info(Child #208) DigiTrad: DERWENTWATER'S FAREWELL Related threads: Lord Allenwater - how to arrange for unaccompanied (17) Lyr Req: Bronson's Child 208 (3) Lyr Req: Derwentwater's Farewell (from The Corries (4) |
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Subject: Lord Ellenwater From: GUEST,hopeful Date: 10 Sep 01 - 04:08 PM Vaughn Williams collected a song from the north of England entitled Lord Ellenwater. Does anyone have any background on this song, other versions or derivations etc etc etc?
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Subject: RE: Help: hopeful From: Matthew Edwards Date: 10 Sep 01 - 07:37 PM Offhand I can't recall this, but there is a song Lord Derwentwater which may be related. I'll try to follow this up later, unless Malcolm Douglas gets in here first. PS As a guide to requesting lyrics etc it is generally more useful to put the title (or whatever you can remember from a song) in the thread title, that way there is more chance somebody will be able to respond with the answer you need. If its OK with you I'll ask for your thread request to be amended. PS Actually, on checking it out, your subject Lord Ellenwater looks as if it is right, but it has come up on the Forum as "Help: Hopeful" ????? Fixed it. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Help: hopeful for Lord Ellenwater info From: Sorcha Date: 10 Sep 01 - 08:57 PM This page says Nic Jones did it, but no lyrics, etc. available. We have a lot of Nic fans here, perhaps one can help. |
Subject: RE: Help: hopeful for Lord Ellenwater info From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 10 Sep 01 - 09:44 PM This is Child's number #208, but is often confused with the entirely different song (though it deals with the same subject) Derwentwater's Farewell, which is in the DT (and wrongly given the Child number). Child (English and Scottish Popular Ballads) has nine texts, from Northern England and from Scotland. There is an entry at The Traditional Ballad Index: Roy Palmer (Bushes and Briars: Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams, 1983/99) comments: "The Derwentwater family had estates in Cumberland and Northumberland. The family seat, originally on an island in Derwentwater (hence the name) was abandoned in the 17th century in favour of Dilston Hall, near Corbridge. James Ratcliffe, the third Lord Derwentwater, and the subject of the ballad, seems to have been genuinely loved by his family, servants and tenants. When he was beheaded in 1716, for his part in the abortive Jacobite rising of the previous year, he was widely mourned..." Child, of course, gives far more detailed historical information. The song has also been found ( in both England and Scotland) as Lord Dunwaters, Lord Allenwater, Lord Arnwaters and Lord Ellenwater; some texts were given in the Journal of the Folk Song Society (No. 13, 1909), but I don't have those -yet!-, so can't help further just now; there are, I think, additional examples in Bronson's Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads, but again I don't have the relevant volume. I assume you have the Lord Ellenwater set that Vaughan Williams got from (presumably) Cambridgeshire, and which appeared in the Palmer collection? |
Subject: RE: Help: hopeful for Lord Ellenwater info From: GUEST,Hopeful Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:59 AM Thanks everyone. Yes, I have the RVW text as collected by him, but the song appears incomplete and therefore I suspected that there was a more complete version in Child. I know the background etc to the Derwentwater strand but it is this particular version that I wish to pursue. |
Subject: ADD: Lord Allenwater (Child #208) From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 11 Sep 01 - 09:57 AM Here is a slightly more complete set than the one referred to above. ^^
LORD ALLENWATER
(Traditional; from E.A. Stears of Horsham, Sussex, 1905)
The King he wrote a long letter
The first two lines Lord Allenwater read
He goes up to his gay lady,
"If you must go up to London town
"Here is unto my only son,
He goes out to his head stable groom
He put his foot into the stirrup
As he was riding along the road
As he was riding up merry London street
"No traitor at all", Lord Allenwater said,
Then up bespoke a grey-headed old man,
"My life I do not value,
There is forty pounds in one pocket,
Then he laid his head upon the block,
Child #208
This version appeared in the West Sussex Gazette some time in 1905; the paper had launched a song competition in the previous year, expressly intended to encourage people to write down and submit "old country songs". The collector Lucy Broadwood (at the time Secretary of the Folk Song Society) was invited to adjudicate the "words and music" section. One of the winning songs was Mrs. Harriet Verrall of Monk's Gate's set of Salisbury Plain. |
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