Dissapointed

Subject: Dissapointed
From: CharlieA
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:44 AM

Please do not understand me in this. I in no way agree with what has happened. I agree that it is a sad day for the world when a tragedy of this magnitude happens. however i consider it a greater tragedy for the world when the reaction to such a tragedy is such that people raise up in arms against each other and those who were accepting and friendly to all and sundry (as i had found this forum, the most accepting place i have ever seen) into backbiting and smallminded bigots. If we let ourselves turn against one another and cause pain and anguish to even one other person then we are aiding those who seek to distroy us. I for one am saddened gratly by many of the threads and individual comments i have found here and have decided that even having enjoyed and partaken in (if briefly - as a very new mudcatter) several of the discussions - i may not return t6o the mudcaat cafe for a long time. Cxxx

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:49 AM

Hear hear. Not that you should go away, but that we should Rise Above It. I keep saying that...

Also, you can't (or at least please don't) judge people only by what they do in extremis. Normal times may have more normal behavior... and if you're new, as you say, you haven't had much of a chance to see us being Normal. (Not that most of us are standard, but you know what I mean, I hope.)

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Pseudolus
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:51 AM

This is a stressful time for all of us. People are saying, for the most part, what is in their hearts. I can only ask you for this..... Don't judge an individual or group by what is said in times of great stress and sadness. This is part of the grief process....for all of us.

But if you need to go.....go. Just don't forget the good side of this Forum. They'll be here again if you decide to come back.

Frank

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Cappuccino
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:55 AM

Good point, Mrrzy. These are not normal times, and I've already said privately to other Catters that watching the messages come in second-by-second yesterday taught me much more about America and my American friends than any amount of constant TV news reporting... and all of it is understandable, or at least as understandable as it can be from three thousand miles away.

Stick with it, mate.

- IanB

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Peg
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 10:09 AM

we must keep in mind; we as Americans would not want to be judged on stereotypes or what our government has done or what some small number of stupid, hate-filled Americans have done; we must likewise not stereotype some ethnic or cultural group as if they are all alike.

I would imagine some people who live on the West Bank are horrified by what has happened and equally horrified that their neighbors are smiling and dancing in the streets...I did not interact with too many people in my city yesterday but people were laughing and smiling everywhere I looked. I could not figure out why.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 10:18 AM

Moralizing about how people should be is fun, isn't it? Favorite indoor sport, no?

Especially because you never run out of things to do.

I would be disappointed in the humanity of our community if they didn't rage and gnash their teeth. This is not the site for beatitudes. I am actually pleased they are alive enough to rage. I think you will find we all have a smallminded bigot somewhere inside, trying to get out, and the best we can do is try to train him. In times of loss and great threat, our systems react on fight or flight terms.

Compassion is a two way street, Charlie.

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From:
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 10:48 AM

I was listening (I'm Canadian), to a Ex-Pat Brit in Paris commenting this AM. He was saying how the US should take these incidents as a wakeup call and MODIFY or RE-THINK their policy in the Mid-East to be more equal with their favouritism. How the shows that there are people in the world who are rebelling against the policies of the US of A.

Mind you, I don't agree with everything the US government does, but this is NOT the time to voice such. He HAD to make political beans!!!!

The Mudcat IS an international forum, despite its base in the USA.

Best wishes to all both in and outside the USA.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 11:01 AM

I am as angry as anyone else, but, if my hand was on the red button, and could vaporize Afganistan, I could not do it. However, if I was sure that only the guilty ones would be sent to hell, well, that I could seriously consider.

How about we take them alive, put them in prison, and feed them nothing but pork?

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 11:03 AM

Charlie, if the rancor dismays you, you can always do what a lot of Mudcatters do, and what I do 90% of the time: read only the music threads and ignore the rest.

You'll find the atmosphere much friendlier. And you can actually be involved in doing something creative, fun, and constructive.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 11:20 AM

Charlie,

Go away then, and find someplace where no one is expressing feelings that "dismay" you--and when you get there, let us know what planet you are on--

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 11:20 AM

Oi, easy there.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:05 PM

Yeah, don't get like that--we're all on edge just now. ANyway, put me down for a ticket to that planet!

Steve

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: 8_Pints
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:41 PM

Hate is a destructive force that never results in a satisfactory resolution.

Better to hope that even a single person's actions and courage can make this a better place to live!

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: GUEST,Dead Horse
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 02:34 PM

As a Brit speaking mostly to Yanks, I can only express deep and profound condolances to those hurt in any way by anything said within these pages. I would not have felt constrained to bother Mudcatters with this, but for some very foolish and unkind thoughts expressed elsewhere. When I am connected to Mudcat I am in the "Folkworld" where all are as one, and real life, with all it's madness, is left outside. As for the atrocity itself, it just goes to show what extremism, in any form, is capable of. It should be shunned by all, in ALL it's many guises.

Love to Folkies Everywhere.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Mickey191
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:01 PM

Charlie, are we allowed to feel pain & anguish toward those who have caused these murderous acts? You say we must not have these feelings toward one person. What would you do if these terrorists are caught and their fate was in your hands?

Peg,may I ask where you live? I had to go to the supermarket yesterday afternoon, and the atmosphere put me back to the aftermath of Nov. 22,1963. I was in the same store-and people on both occasions were silent. Some waiting at the checkout were crying. It was really deja vue.(SP.) Just a little hick town in Dutchess Co. N.Y. Many American flags were out and that was inspiring.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:07 PM

The ex-Pat Brit who assumed the role of talking head is probably oblivious to the fact that many contemporary problems in the Mideast are an outgrowth of lousy English policy in the past. And they ain't doing a whole lot better in the present, its just that the U.S. makes a much bigger target.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:25 AM

Many of us in the UK are well aware of the evil side of our colonial past; the more recent times are well within living memory. What made Britain great is also what made Britain bad. But don't forget that while we elect politicians to run the country, we don't have any direct say in what they actually do. How many of you folks inthe US love your country? Most of you, I expect. And how many think it's fine just the way it is? It's the same over here. It's a great place, full of great people, but none of us are without fault, and we're all prone to make mistakes. And the political sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons.

Steve

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:50 AM

Amos,12 Sep 01 10.18 AM said:

"I think you will find we all have a smallminded bigot somewhere inside, trying to get out, and the best we can do is try to train him.

That is one of the best articulated sentences I've read (or heard) in a long time.

I'll try to spend a little more time, & try a little harder training him.

Thanks Amos.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: GUEST,Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:56 AM

"... none of us is without fault ..." Grammar is the first thing to go ...

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Deni
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:06 AM

Charlie,

Disappointment is natural, so is rage. Why not hang around and be a voice of reason. turning your back on anything won't make it go away.

D

PS Am I alone in hating to read what I said earlier, quoted back at me. It takes me aback, and I often wish I'd never said whatever it was...

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Hawker
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:54 PM

Charlie, This community is a mixed race, mixed ethics group. we all have different opinions, some definately not the same as mine, but usually live and let live.......
What happened on the 11th September was a terrible day for society as we know it, this stirred up a whole host of emotions, and reactions which the people who voiced them may not have believed they could feel. As the dust settles, people are more asking how? why? and what do we do now? Most of us realise that to do nothing is allowing the perpetrators victory, to retalliate is lowering ourselves to their level.....
There was some bickering, possibly some trolling and flaming, maybe some harsh words, But I for one feel that the freedom of expression has helped me to understand that I am not alone in feeling anger, not alone in feeling pain, not alone in wanting revenge, not alone in wanting no revenge, not alone in wanting peace. I consider all at mudcat as friends, whether they have the same views as me or not, I hope you will return and enjoy the friendship most people on this site ofeer, ignore the few, enjoy the many - if we all used this policy in life, what a better world we could start to make
God (whoever or whatever) Bless
Lucy

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:12 PM

Thanks. Eddie, for kind words when much needed. Made my day.

A.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Deda
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM

"None of us is without fault" is not a grammatical error. "None" can correctly be construed as being singular.

(Sorry, I can't help it -- I'm a recovering Latin teacher.)

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:28 PM

What are the stages of grieving? Anger, denial, bargaining, sadness, and acceptance? Something like that. Anger is first. Shouting and name-calling and all sorts of verbal displays of anger might be expected from people in the first stages of grief. When they cool down they will not necessarily go out and do the things they were shouting. Would that those still hot-headed in their initial anger would sit at home on their hands for a bit rather than rush into the street looking for people wearing turbans or other signs of "arabicness" or "islamicness" to harm -- that's not what America is about IMHO.

Alex

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Kernow John
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:27 PM

Charlie
It's much better that the folks had space here to rant and rave, be nasty, cry, whatever. Better to do it here than against some poor guy in the street.
Take a breather and give the folks in America the time, space and support they need and your prayers as well.
You know I was going put "to" instead of "as well" but I don't know if it should have been "to" or "too" and some smart ass would have pointed it out. I can't comprehend the difference, never have been able to so it ain't no good anyone trying.
KJ

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:46 PM

KJ

If it has TWO O's it means 'excessive'. Or 'as well'.

If it has ONE O it means at, toward, for, or an infinitive verb.

Just remember that TWO O's is "excessive". That'll keep you going in circles!!

A

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: DougR
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 02:16 AM

Good for you you, Deda! The last thing we need on the Mudcat is a grammer detective. Most of us would be doing hard time by now. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:25 AM

Deda, I was correcting my own mistake, but Crazy Eddie got in first. I have to agree with DougR; I think I'm getting into dispacement activity to stop me thinking about what's happened. Sorry.

Steve

Subject: RE: Disappointed
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:26 AM

Yeah, I'm disappointed, too. I knew from the first hour of this tragedy, that Mudcat was not a place I wanted to be this week. Yes, there have been well-reasoned, thoughtful pieces written by a number of people - but the bulk of what has been posted here is the same old thing, over and over again.

This place is a troll's paradise. If somebody drops in to pick a fight, a dozen Mudcatters will jump into the fray. Four hours after the fight has died down, some innocent-sounding idiot will post another message, starting the fight all over again. It's too bad. I'm dropping in now and then to do my Mudcat housekeeping work, but I'm staying away from most of the non-music discussions. I hope things are back to normal next week. It's a real zoo here now.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: gus C
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:29 AM

I don't understand why some people are attacking arab Americans. I don't understand why some people danced in the streets. I don't understand why some people want the middle east blown off the map, there are many innocents there. I do understand why a lot of people are angry as hell. It is a little thing called attrocious loss of human life. It is a little thing called the struggle betwwen good and evil, rarely caste in such stark relief. Charlie, Your moralizations and false piety are something else I really don't understand.

Subject: RE: Dissapointed
From: Troll
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:41 AM

If you want to go, go.
If you want to stick around and try to make a difference, stay.
Your call.

troll