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Posting IRA songs

GUEST 12 Sep 01 - 01:19 PM
GUEST 12 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM
Lanfranc 12 Sep 01 - 06:46 PM
breezy 12 Sep 01 - 06:50 PM
paddymac 12 Sep 01 - 11:45 PM
Big Mick 13 Sep 01 - 12:02 AM
Troll 13 Sep 01 - 12:10 AM
GUEST 13 Sep 01 - 01:45 AM
Big Tim 13 Sep 01 - 02:41 AM
Amergin 13 Sep 01 - 02:55 AM
Shields Folk 13 Sep 01 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Andy 13 Sep 01 - 04:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Sep 01 - 05:19 AM
The_one_and_only_Dai 13 Sep 01 - 05:21 AM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 05:33 AM
English Jon 13 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM
InOBU 13 Sep 01 - 07:05 AM
Big Mick 13 Sep 01 - 10:40 AM
Paul from Hull 13 Sep 01 - 11:21 AM
Robby 13 Sep 01 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,Guest 13 Sep 01 - 12:23 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 12:37 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 12:45 PM
Shields Folk 13 Sep 01 - 02:11 PM
InOBU 13 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 03:18 PM
InOBU 13 Sep 01 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Parent of a Student 14 Sep 01 - 02:55 AM
GUEST,Den 14 Sep 01 - 10:24 AM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,Guest2 14 Sep 01 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Guest2 14 Sep 01 - 10:49 AM
Ferret 14 Sep 01 - 10:42 PM
Coyote Breath 14 Sep 01 - 11:36 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 15 Sep 01 - 03:45 PM
Joe Offer 15 Sep 01 - 04:15 PM
catspaw49 15 Sep 01 - 04:25 PM
Joe Offer 15 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 15 Sep 01 - 04:52 PM
catspaw49 15 Sep 01 - 04:57 PM
Gloredhel 15 Sep 01 - 07:18 PM
Gareth 15 Sep 01 - 07:39 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 15 Sep 01 - 07:54 PM
Ferret 15 Sep 01 - 09:21 PM
Big Tim 16 Sep 01 - 04:56 AM
TamthebamfraeScotland 16 Sep 01 - 07:39 AM
TamthebamfraeScotland 16 Sep 01 - 08:13 AM
Cllr 16 Sep 01 - 08:36 AM
TamthebamfraeScotland 16 Sep 01 - 11:24 AM
Paul from Hull 16 Sep 01 - 12:50 PM
CraigS 16 Sep 01 - 07:30 PM
InOBU 16 Sep 01 - 08:23 PM
AliUK 16 Sep 01 - 09:12 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 17 Sep 01 - 08:00 AM
Fiolar 17 Sep 01 - 08:18 AM
TamthebamfraeScotland 17 Sep 01 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,PeteBoom (at work) 17 Sep 01 - 10:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Sep 01 - 10:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Sep 01 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,Objectivity 17 Sep 01 - 10:55 AM
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Subject: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 01:19 PM

Dear America,

Welcome to the modern world.

Please remember yesterday when you next consider the IRA as romanticised freedom fighters

Thank you


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM

Sorry pal, but the U.S. has been paying a heavy price for assuming a position of leadership in the "modern world" for a hell of a long time. A lot of this is derived from trying to clean up the mess made by European colonialism (i.e. the French in Vietnam and the English in the Middle East). As for the IRA, I don't think too many folks are romanticizing them just because they are interested in Irish songs. On another note, I can't recall them ever purposely killing American civilians, or targeting (real) civilians on this scale.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Lanfranc
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:46 PM

The scale was different, but the London bombs in Bishopsgate, Canary Wharf and at the Baltic Exchange could be seen as a dry run for yesterday.

Perhaps New Yorkers will stop funding the IRA (or may be forced to as a quid pro quo for British support for whatever action Bush may decide to take).

You sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Stop hiding, GUESTS, or are you afraid of reprisals?


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: breezy
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:50 PM

its a small world and its getting smaller.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: paddymac
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 11:45 PM

The IRA has the dignity to give warning calls in order to provide a chance to evacuate and minimize deaths when they strike a strategic civilian target. There is a common thread to consider, however, in most forms of what many choose to call terrorism. What injustice compells men and women seeking justice and honor to give up hope of a non-violent resolution. Who is the bigger villain - the rebel or the regime? No easy answers, I know, but food for thought.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:02 AM

Once again I note that you cowardly bastards are quick to condemn the IRA songs and say nothing of the songs of the UVA, UDF, and the other Unionists thugs who kill as many or more as the IRA. It isn't the Provo's who have been trying to break up the peace process. It isn't the Provo's throwing pipebombs at little schoolgirls. And by the way. Have you noticed that the Unionists are pissed off because little girls want to walk down the street into the front of their own school. But they aren't using bands and breaking windows in Protestant Churches on the way. Isn't that the same issue as when the Catholics say they would prefer not to have the parades in their neighborhoods on 12 July? GUEST, if you really lost a relative in the troubles, I am sorry. But I think you are just a bigot. So, in the words of the immortal Catspaw, "Get yourself a coke, go sit in the corner, smile.........and shut the fuck up." This is a tragedy of a proportion not seen before. With any luck we will all learn from the misery being caused here. But spare us the fucking morality lessons.

I shouldn't post when I am in this mood.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Troll
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:10 AM

Why the hell not, Mick? You said it well and your point is well taken.
I do get tired of Trolls though. They give us trogdolytes a bad rep.

troll


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:45 AM

Lanfranc, There is no comparison with what happened in New York and IRA bombing. The USA has not occupied any country for over 7 hundred years against the will of 90% of the people - England has. The USA army has never premeditated the murder of unarmed civilian protesters and shot them in the back (Kent State was not pre-meditated) - The 2nd Bloody Sunday in Derry was. The USA has never opened up with machine guns at a crowd of spectators watching a football match, the English did - the 1st Bloody Sunday in Dublin. The list of atrocities carried out by England over the years is too long to print, but they did happen and they cannot deny it. They even had the audacity to go to war on a number of occasions to ensure the freedom of small nations while they themselves occupying Ireland ?. I have to agree with the previous post - you are a bigot, and if you weren't so blinded by this bigotry you could see things in a better light. And one more thing, what posible support could the USA need from the Brits, they and all their manpower and machinery could not defeat the iRA over the past 30 ywears, what sort of help could they be. They owe the USA all the support they can give withgot conditions, if the uSA had not stepped in to WW2 the brits would still be fighting or at least driving Volkswagons.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:41 AM

Much singing of IRA ("Rebel") songs is mindless but equally much of it is not. For me at least the rebel songs open many doors into the history of my country, providing info and keeping alive memories of incidents that would be long forgotten otherwise, for example, The Drumboe Martyrs (Irish Civil War, 1923), Tipperary So Far Away (Sean Tracy), etc, etc. Many of the old rebel songs have now become respectable and have entered the normal national repertoire, for example the Irish tenors, John McDermott, Anthony Kearns and Ronan Tynan, have recorded the Minstrel Boy, Only Our rivers, Grace, and Boolavogue. I should also say that I have learned much about the unionist perspective from listening to and following up loyalist songs.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Amergin
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:55 AM

Actually, Guest, If I remember correctly the first Bloody Sunday happened in Dublin...but it was during a labour strike....the one you are talking about was several years later....


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Shields Folk
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:55 AM

When shit hits the fan the English will support the US. The English do not pick over the mistakes made by the US military (honest they do make them). The rhetoric sounded by Muslim funamentalists sounds very similar to that spouted by those Americans (and others in Mudcat) that support the IRA. A Terrorist is a Terrorist, be they Catholic, Protestant or Muslim. I'd rather face British justice than that dished out by some bigot in Belfast or Kabul. Next time a bomb goes of in a British High Street think of what happened in New York and Washington. Then think about how the American government would deal with it.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:43 AM

On the 21st of November 1974, my brother was having a quiet drink in a pub called the mulberry bush. I was on my way to join him when I heard a loud explosion. Next I heard sirens, and then as I got closer to the pub I heard screaming. My brother was a student, not a political activist
I will never forget the scenes that night, or the following weeks. The shock and the fear were tremendous. My brother died from impact injuries and was unrecognisable. We did not have a whole body to bury
I no longer believe in Christianity, or in any other so called God. From my experience, in extremes, it only causes absolute misery.
I wonder about the people who want to get words for these rebel songs, what are they doing with them, drumming up funds for the IRA? So that more innocents can die.
There are people in this world who have no humanity, they get behind a cause and use it as a means to kill.

I have never formally joined this forum, I never will. I have occasionally added my name to the bottom of a post. But be sure that even a guest can empathise with the WTC horror and I can only tell you that it has brought back a lot of raw emotions. I send you all my very very best thoughts, in the hope that some good comes out of such evil
Andy


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:19 AM

I think Mick and others know well my view on IRA songs - I think they stir up a lot of unwanted hatred - but I would never ever ever ever use a disaster of any magnitude, let alone one of these proportions, to try and score political points.

Guest #1 on this thread. If you can't put your name to a post and cannot even propose a sensible reasoned argument you are as bad as the terrorists you condemn. Where do you go after posting anonymous hate mail - sending parcel bombs? Give us a good reason why you are against these songs, not the childish playground drivel you open with, and people may listen. Stand in the open and people may look.

Guest who says that the US won the war and then accuses others of bigotry. - Read your own post and have a laugh. I did.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:21 AM

What DtG said.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:33 AM

Guest - are you saying the English deserve terrorism more than the US? I don't think any nation deserves it.
(sorry to bite bait - will shut up now)

Kris


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: English Jon
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM

Oh for Christ's sake. Anyone who kills anyone else is inherantly evil. End of story. I wondered how long it would be before this sack of shite argument surfaced.

And of course, we all know that the Irish, like the Americans are completely blameless for all the violence committed by/against them.

Get a grip folks. We are on the brink of what could well be WW3 - this is not the time to be sniping at each other. The heroic bombing of London W5 kind of pales into insignificance here.

EJ


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:05 AM

Hi guys, this is not really the time to make one paragraph comments on very complex issues. To what degree the war in Ireland was one of the many cold war games, where Thatcher and Regan and Andropov and Charley Haughie and Jack Lynch played their power games with our lives and people did things in responce, not fully aware of the part they were being led into in the power games of the powerful, well, it is such a big story and such a big question that I,for one, can't begin to address the issue here. Many of you know that I worked hard to make sure Joe Doherty was not extradicted from New York to England.
I am not at all questioning my role in preserving his, and hence our civil rights. Joe went on to get his university degree in jail, and now works with troubled teens in Belfast, where loyalists tried to kill him last month - some sease fire.
But the truth is - and the point is, here in downtown New York, the difference between insainty and insuerction is clear. It is also clear that if the US responds with terror, as Britain did with the killing of Carol Ann Kelly and so many other children and other civilians, then, we can expect this to be the begining and not the end of the troubles here. I hope and pray that the US will respond with reason. I for one, thinking of what the loss of my wife's law office ( she is a solo practicioner whose office, we assume is badly damaged at least ) will cost us, with our 15,000 debt we have already. Old firms are now gone, all the members killed, 20,000 is the projected loss of life here. Well, we surviving lawyers should move to sue any country which harbours the bombers, when they are identified. Let us demand the complete settlement of the punitive losses American jurries usualy give, for every person, every tourest, every one who lost anything. So, how would it get paid? Well, Say it is benlaudin. If Afganistan is harbouring him, or if it is Irac, any airplane of theirs that lands anywhere in the world is seazed and sold any ship is seazed and sold, any asset of thier nation sold, until the debt is paid. Or, until there is a garentee of an end to facilitating terror. Now, to touch on England and Ireland. England sought to use the courts in this country to make the claim that their war was against terror, and no courts here bought it in light of the evidence. No court could see this in any light other than that. Also, America cannnot only see the responce as getting the other side to give, we have to stop creating missery overseas. We need to stop playing the kind of games we and Britain played in Ireland which resulted in such missery, in fact, it was not American support for the IRA which kept that war going but American NATO power games.
Well, this went on longer than I expected it should, Look, in one sentence... Pray for peace, and work for justice.
Larry, here in Downtown Manhattan.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:40 AM

Andy, I am so very sorry for your loss. And for the feelings that have surfaced as a result of this attack. Please know that even though you don't believe in them, you are in my prayers.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:21 AM

SHAME on ANYONE who uses this to push their OWN agenda....

Arguing in this present 'climate' is understandable....so much righteous anger...but THIS?

I f'kin DESPAIR sometimes.....


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Robby
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:54 AM

To GUEST#1:

When I first saw your posting I was tempted to respond, as have a number of others before me. However, in my opinion, a posting by a nameless, faceless coward isn't deserving of any response and is better off left ignored. I don't respond to anonymous letters, either.

To the Responders:

I can understand why you felt compelled to answer your drivel, but I do believe that you gave this individual and the posting more dignity and respect than was deserved.

Robby


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:23 PM

We are a high school class. I am the teacher.

We have read a story by James O'Flarherty called setting 1920, Dublin, Ireland.

This thread has been a valuable resource for understanding hurt, pain, and killing which exist, even today in Ireland.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:37 PM

Here's an obvious troll thread and after GUEST starts it, he gets no response and it's dropping down the list. So why not refresh it as GUEST with an opposite point of view to encourage others and bring it back? So then we start biting and naturally have divergent opinions, but pretty well reasoned in any case. So when it starts to get too chummy GUEST, this as somebody posts a tragic little scenario and off we go again........And as it goes further, we NOW get a "teacher" wanting to encourage us to argue more.........Do you really believe that's a teacher and a high school class?

I'm just a cynical fucker because I don't. I'm as guilty as anyone else around here, but I've had it with responding to flammable posts buy anonymous guests even if they can turn into good discussion, the guest will manipulate the thread to make us dance to his tune. What a crock of shit........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:45 PM

And BTW their Guest, since you got your jollies, allow me to get mine and that way it's a "Double Win"!!!!!!

So on that basis......

FUCK YOU !!!

FUCK YOUR MOTHER !!!

.......and many have.......

FUCK YOUR FATHER !!!

.....word is he's even better than your mother......

Best Wishes For Your Continued Happiness (and your Mom & Dad's)

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Shields Folk
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:11 PM

Catspaw your full of shit.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM

Dear friends... keep it nice and keep it peaceful. Play nice spaw and I will send you a CD... a plug to keep you smiling! Good news, 7 more firemen just pulled out of the wreakage, two walked out after these few days. SO pray for peace, play for justice... Larry


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:18 PM

Aw hell Larry, I am playing nice. I just figure that if the trolls can have some fun, so can I!!!

But, uh........Since I have your attention though, over on the Nostradamus thread, they have been talking about astrology, predictions, tarot reading and the like and King Brilliant suggested "Catspaw Scatology Cards" to be read in the "throne room" while attending to business. So I'm thinking since y'all are in such a good mood and all, I might as well try and make a buck.............You can plug it for me Larry!!!!!! (BTW, it was 5 firefighters, but it's still a miracle and one that's needed....May there be more)

**********************************************************

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Fly-By-Nite Industries announced today that decks of "Catspaw Scatology Cards" will be released within the next month. Each card has a likeness of someone in the Catspaw family and can also be used in emergencies as asswipes. The "King of Crap" card has Spaw in all of his radiant glory showing a scene from his past where he had his palm read. It took several washings and a good deal of turpentine to get the paint off. The "Prince of Fools" card has Cletus whiffing the asses of the Reg boys and the "Circle of Light" card has Paw flaring off a big one. Only those making prepayment will be shipped these Limited Edition decks. Those interested should mail cash (NO CHECKS PLEASE) in the amount of $49.95 (US) plus $18.97 Shipping and Handling to:

Fly-By-Nite Industries East Bumblast, Ohio 43107

As always, with Fly-By-Nite, your satisfaction is guaranteed. Simply return the unused portion of of our products, and we'll retun the unused portion of your money.

**********************************************************

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:48 PM

Good on ya boy... they said 7, but it is now down to 6 firemen... hopes for more. I'll buy a deck!!! And we will give special readings at every http://sorchadorcha.com gig... Still waiting to hear from a health worker in the band, on a serrious note, likely she's working hard. Say a prayer for peace, Larry


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Parent of a Student
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 02:55 AM

My child was excited about this site after a discussion in school. As far as I am concerned, the school, the teacher, and all of you in this place should be ashamed of your behavior, it is disgraceful. I will talk to the principal tomorrow!!!


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:24 AM

I'd been watching this one too Spaw and was happy that for quite a while no one had taken the bait, we're learning. I commend you for your eloquence in dealing with Guest. In one of those strange twists of fate. My nephew and his girlfriend from Belfast were in New York when this tragedy occured. They were leaving that morning to come up to Canada to stay for a week with me before returning home to go back to university. We were really worried about them because we lost contact all that day. Their parents in Ireland were frantic with worry. They were thinking these kids had grown up their whole lives in Belfast unscathed and then this happens in New York of all places. Finally late Tuesday evening we had a call to say they were ok. They were on the bus on their way out of the city when they heard the explosion and saw the smoke. Their bus was diverted to somewhere in New Jersey and they have been there ever since. They are trying to get a flight home as soon as possible. This terrible event has touched many people further afield than the US. My brother told me that his neighbours brother is listed as missing. He worked in the trade centre.

Words are never enough in situations like this. I know first hand what it feels like to loose people I loved in similar violent acts. All I can say is that my thoughts and prayers go out to who ever needs them. Den


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:34 AM

Den, you need to repost that story on another thread, like the America Attacks thread.......It's indeed a telling story and I'm glad they are okay......but it is, as you say, an interesting twist. If you have posted it elsewhere, I'm sorry if I missed it before.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Guest2
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:48 AM

I don't think that this thread is a joke. In fact, I was the one who initially commented on the first posting. It really pisses me off when folks take the ignorant stance that the U.S. has been living in never-never land and are now being thrust into the "modern world." As i indicated, we have been paying a heavy price for our involvement in contemporary global affairs for a long time. I would assume that in the near future a lot of Americans are going to pay the price so that no one has to experience something like New York. Likewise, it is stupid to make such a statement in a taunting manner and then connect it to a diatribe about the popularity of particular Irish songs. I am not an apologist for the IRA, but as many people have pointed out, they don't slaughter civilians on a large scale and even their attacks on miliary targets often come with a direct warning.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Guest2
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:49 AM

I don't think that this thread is a joke. In fact, I was the one who initially commented on the first posting. It really pisses me off when folks take the ignorant stance that the U.S. has been living in never-never land and are now being thrust into the "modern world." As i indicated, we have been paying a heavy price for our involvement in contemporary global affairs for a long time. I would assume that in the near future a lot of Americans are going to pay the price so that no one has to experience something like New York. Likewise, it is stupid to make such a statement in a taunting manner and then connect it to a diatribe about the popularity of particular Irish songs. I am not an apologist for the IRA, but as many people have pointed out, they don't slaughter civilians on a large scale and even their attacks on miliary targets often come with a direct warning.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Ferret
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:42 PM

Mick and others well know my view on IRA songs, but there is a big difference between an interest in a song or support with a courses, and a support of inducement mass killing.

I have all ways jumped at an opportunity to wined up the yanks (I only wined up people I like) BUT THIS IS NOT THE TIME.

With my deepest condolans to people of the USA.

Remember the (Alamo)(WTC) ferret


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 11:36 PM

yeah, killing is killing. It IS wrong. Sez so in the bible and in the Koran.

I despise what has been done. I am not too pleased with some of what has been "said" here, either.

Some time in the past I had asked for the words to a song, deliberately inflamatory in tone (the song, not my asking) dealing with Bloody Sunday (2). I collect stuff. I sing some of the "IRA" songs, rarely in public. Well I sing rarely in public these days in any case.

I love music. Sometimes music HAS fire sometimes music IS fire. Often a song about events such as Bloody Sunday (Tuesday, any more days of the week?) is full of anger and hate because the writer was full of anger and hate. It is a shorthand of sorts, exposing the human psyche in an ungarded moment. That is the BEST side. I could sing you a Klan song, but I won't. Songs can be clever and the singer calculating, sometimes that is the WORST side.

I would hope that musicians are capable of judging honestly, for themselves.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 03:45 PM

Catspaw, something is wrong with your address. The postoffice returned my check, no such address. I readdressed it to Greater Bumblast.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:15 PM

We've had this argument before - whether there are songs that should not be posted here, and whether there are songs that should not be included in the Digital Tradition. The Digital Tradition seeks to collect folk songs - ALL folk songs, without regard to the positions expressed in those songs. Songs tell a lot about our history - if we were to filter out songs we consider objectionable, we would present a filtered view of history. IRA songs are of particular interest here, as are songs from all perspectives in the conflicts of Ireland.

If you express a political opinion here, that's another matter. You can expect that somebody is going to oppose you, especially if the matter is controversial. Posting songs, however, is a protected activity - we want ALL the songs that tell our history, not just the ones that are politically correct.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:25 PM

Aw damn....Last night I was just sitting there, passing gas, evacualting my bladder, and winding my watch, so I whipped out the "Catspaw Scatology Cards" and dealt a few out. What I read was simply amazing but I decided I needed to get some sleep and this morning I forgot to post here, but now I see the truth as it was predicted. Man I am so sorry I didn't post last night!

I predicted that Joe would explain the reasoning behind the posting of all songs, although he could not explain his increasing baldness.

See? These cards are really great!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM

Say what you like about my hair (or lack thereof), Spaw - as long as you remember that posting songs is sacred.

So, now some legalistic asshole is going to post a hateful ditty of his own making and shriek "free speech" when he/she is attacked....

How's this:
If the song was written within the current week, certain restrictions apply.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:52 PM

Joe, don't change. A lot of history and, I feal, our sense of humor, is being ruined by political correctness.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:57 PM

That was a pretty good prediction Joe. Aren't you glad you got a deck of the "Catspaw Scatology Cards?"

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Gloredhel
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 07:18 PM

I'm sending away for a deck, Spaw. Just make sure I get a complete one, though, 'cause all decks of cards that I own seem to be missing a few, which probably makes a statement about me....


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Gareth
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 07:39 PM

Bugger political correctness, my old granny, a County Cork girl was she, taught me a few songs in her life, many involved "The Cause" and those nasty Black and Tans.

Which is interesting, cos we know damn well at the hight of the troubles, she was working as a barmaid in The Angle Hotel Cardiff as a barmaid - twas there she met my Grandfather.

History well, as Joe says, must be recorded. And I agree.

But which version of history ??

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 07:54 PM

Generally it is the songs of the eventual winners that will prevail. Ireland's future is not yet spun out to the end. Joe is generous, he will accept losers songs as well. They should all be there.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Ferret
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 09:21 PM

His-story is a story from some ones perspective, and all perspectives are valid and necessary to get the whole story. Then and only then can you then decide what the truth is. To many people and governments have tried to censer history and manipulate it. Folk songs are one way of getting past that problem but you need all of them.

All the best ferret


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 04:56 AM

Personally, I differentiate between old IRA songs, pre about 1935, and the modern Northern Irish ones, many of which I find offensive.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 07:39 AM

CATSPAW

I was going yo respond to your posting about fucking somone's father and mother, and then i thought why should I because people like you are really sick in the head to say such things about anyone's family, I just hope that no one says that about your family.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 08:13 AM

Oh another thing, I can't rember anyone in America giving money to the UDA, UVF, or other loyalist terriorist groups, or maybe there' someone out there can tell that I'm wrong.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Cllr
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 08:36 AM

I used to work on terrorist cases for the Crown Prosecution Service. My office was bombed and I was picking glass out of my files for three days. The scale of the attacks varies but the aim, terror, is the same. Obviously, I am going to have very strong views on NORAID and singing songs that are pro any terrorist organisation.

However at a time like this we should all work together pray together and join together in stopping any possibly repeat of recent events. Any thing else is a side issue.

Cllr


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 11:24 AM

cllr,

Tell that to the people who's members of their families were killed by either the loyalist or republican terrorists,that they don't matter to people like you. that what happened to them is nothing.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 12:50 PM

Busbitter, HOW do you draw THAT conclusion from what 'Councillor' said?


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: CraigS
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 07:30 PM

My wife is a Catholic, I am a christian. My Catholic relatives live in Derry, my protestant relatives in Donegal. We are all saddened by deaths.

My wife's protestant cousin had to oversee the opening of several shops in NI - there were several insurance charges every week which had to be met, none of them to be visible to the Inland Revenue. I'm fed up of hearing about these people, their distinctions and their trivial statements about nationalism. They are nothing less than akin to the Cosa Nostra, and work by the same methods. Nationalism just leads to fighting. Ireland and the UK both belong to the EEC, and the breaking of the English yoke is a meaningless activity nowadays. All NI citizens have had, until recently, the option of taking either nationality, and the restriction of such choice merely reflects the fact that the Irish government is fed up of the squabbles. Many of the IRA songs have a certain beauty, and are totally inoffensive to those unaware of the implications of their lyrics. Such songs should be posted with a rider comment to explain this. This is analagous to the fact that the music of Wagner is anti - semitic, but still has sufficient merit to be regarded as worthy of attention.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 08:23 PM

Hi Cllr:
I am an Anglo Irish Quaker who worked for many years on Joe Doherty's case here in New York, as a paralegal, before law school... (Defending Joe). We have had long and protracted, but very very helpful discussions. The targeting of lawyers all around was atrocious, as in the death of Rosemary Nelson and Pat Finuecan. I think the lesson we all must learn is not to be pulled into the games of the folks way up the government order, much higher than you. Let's face it, when you play chess you learn to ask what does the other side want you to do, obviously who ever did this in New York, wants the US to react violently and we are. Fact is - it is hard to figure out what the game is sometimes. Just as we can't blame the war in Ireland on Irish people alone, it was a cold war construction... it is hard to figure out what is behind all this today in New York. It is very obvious that we were not bombed, as they said on every news report, because people hate us for our freedom. Get real.
We lawyers should make a better way than jurryless terrorist trials, and bombs droping in terror reprisals for terrorist acts.
Sorry for the spelling Cllr, don't have a spell check on this program, and as those who know me from the past, know, well spelling is not how I got into law school. Anyway... do read back over the posts on Ireland - terrorism and NATO, and all the other attempts we have been making towards truth and reconcilliation. By the way, we in the US were very touched and thankful for the support from England in this.
All the best
Pray for peace,
Larry from downtown New York.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: AliUK
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 09:12 PM

Hmmmm. I sing Boulavogue, also , The Croppy Boy, Johnson's Motorcar, would Skibereen qualify as an IRA song ( which has its american connection too), Roddy McCauley is a good one too that I sing. I'm English, Anglican and definitely against terrorism in any shape or form. but why do I like to sing these songs? Spaw, I got to get me a pack of them there cards, but aren't you runnibg a risk if Cletus and the boys are handling the packing and mailing? It's a wonder they never get distracted by passing female pigs, I know how they whistle and hoot when the sows walk by.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 08:00 AM

because cllr was saying that 'anything else was a side issue'. In other words this is what I beleive in that the conflict that went on in Northern Ireland for 30 years and it's still going on with the splinter groups on both sides that even though only 3,000 children,men and women died, on both sides, this according to cllr was the side issue. I mean how would they feel if someone came up to them and said that your brother, sister, daugther, or whoever was killed by either an IRA, UDA, UVF, or anyother terrorist bomb or gun, means nothing becase America got a terrorist attack, and that's more important. that's what I think anyway.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Fiolar
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 08:18 AM

A lot of rubbish has been posted on this thread as well as many good points. Irish Nationalism and its history for hundreds of years has been defined by the songs and poems written by people who in many cases died for their country. The poets in many of these compilations never used the word Ireland but used such phrases as "Shan Van Vocht"; "Dark Rosaleen"; "The Four Green Fields" and many many others. The people knew what was meant. If we talk about banning songs which may have a political leaning then we wipe out a whole country's history which deals with oppression of the strong by the weak and I am not talking just about Ireland here.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 09:58 AM

What about songs written by I was going to use the word people but they are not, like Bobby Sands who was a murderer and he wrote 'I wish I was back in Derry'.

What about songs like Kevin Barry, and I mean calling them politcal songs, they're not. some of the songs are but some are not they just Gloryfy Murderers like Bobby Sands, and his colleuges and supporters. there's nothing politcal when innocent people are being killed by these monsters. And Anyone who says that it politcal then why don't the get rid of there wepons and become memebers of politcal parties instead. There is nothing politcal about terrorism on either side.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,PeteBoom (at work)
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 10:38 AM

You know, Busbiter, I suspect that the number of people in the States who knowingly contribute money to the IRA (and any of the many spin-offs) is smaller than the number of people who scream about it. We could ask the guys in the Orange Lodges in California and New York about contributing to the IRA, but I really don't think they know. I've seen the almost evidence about how this group or that group funnels money to NORAID, however, no one I know in those organizations do so. Imagine, some of the so-called cultural groups might just really be that.

I'm no fan of Mr. Sands OR Mr. Adair, nor does my band play more than a few selected Irish rebel tunes - about the same number of Scottish Jacobite songs and Orange songs. If there is something of significance - eg., Grace, and there is an audience that can appreciate, we may well do that too. It is not a political act for us to play such music, but it is usually a political decision to NOT play the rest of the stuff.

If you don't like the decision made by some people, fine, say so. Quit whingeing about it when the moderators/administrators make a decision and run with it. Also, lose the demonizing that is so frequent in certain diatribes. What we don't need is a series of "Oh YEAH? Well, what about THIS!" rants. There are plenty of horrific examples on both sides of the Irish Question (how's THAT for an out-of-date phrase) that show BOTH sides to be baby/child murderers.

There ARE differences. Sad to say, and there will always exceptions to what we as individuals like in music. Unless of course, the Taliban gets its way and all music from outside of religous services will be banned from around the world.


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 10:43 AM

I wasn't going to post to this thread again and hoped it would have died but...

Yes, yes. I know I have brought it to the top again. I shall give myself a God-Almighty hangover tomorrow to punish myself - OK?

Said earlier. Saying it again. DO NOT USE THIS TRAGEDY FOR YOUR OWN POLICAL ENDS. End of story. I am in complete agreement with 'spaw. Only his language is a bit more colourful.

I am even in agreement with Fiolar (Now there's a first! Never did get to the bottom of my Grandad being a 'tan btw, Fiolar - Those records are not quite secret but certainly bloody hard to get hold of!).

No-one is suggesting that the American dead are any more or less important that those of any other conflict but there is a universe of difference between the Anglo/Irish conflict and this monumental act of destruction. It is the difference between the moors murderers and the poor gut who shot a thug breaking into his farm. There is no comparison other than they have both broken the law. It is a very naive view to think you can treat both the criminals in the same way.

Let it drop. If you have any arguments about whether IRA songs are right or wrong keep them in the proper place. Argue sensibly and reasonably. Don't use the deaths of all these innocent people to win points over the opposition.

Move it to another thread if you want to continue. Keep it civilised and show the shit-stirers that we are made of better stuff.

Peace

Dave


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 10:49 AM

Poor gut? I must have been looking at my middle...

Poor guy of course.

DtG


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Subject: RE: Posting IRA songs
From: GUEST,Objectivity
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 10:55 AM

I thought that the whole purpose of a site like this is to objectively discuss folk songs. I am sure that just about anyone can find something offensive in the lyrics of some songs posted and discussed. Let's get real here people...


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