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Nostradamus' predictions?

Justa Picker 12 Sep 01 - 01:39 PM
Mickey191 12 Sep 01 - 03:09 PM
Firecat 12 Sep 01 - 03:29 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Sep 01 - 03:43 PM
DebC 12 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM
RWilhelm 12 Sep 01 - 03:54 PM
katlaughing 12 Sep 01 - 04:43 PM
Kim C 12 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM
Amergin 12 Sep 01 - 05:39 PM
kendall 12 Sep 01 - 06:22 PM
Sorcha 12 Sep 01 - 06:43 PM
Bill D 12 Sep 01 - 06:51 PM
marty D 13 Sep 01 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,Hille 13 Sep 01 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,Steve Parkes 13 Sep 01 - 04:52 AM
CarolC 13 Sep 01 - 05:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 05:55 AM
CarolC 13 Sep 01 - 06:42 AM
Crazy Eddie 13 Sep 01 - 06:48 AM
English Jon 13 Sep 01 - 06:52 AM
GUEST,DMcG 13 Sep 01 - 08:23 AM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,Hille 13 Sep 01 - 08:49 AM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 08:56 AM
The_one_and_only_Dai 13 Sep 01 - 09:21 AM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 09:22 AM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 09:28 AM
Little Hawk 13 Sep 01 - 09:42 AM
Clinton Hammond 13 Sep 01 - 09:43 AM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 09:43 AM
KitKat 13 Sep 01 - 10:25 AM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 10:29 AM
Kim C 13 Sep 01 - 10:53 AM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 10:54 AM
Peg 13 Sep 01 - 10:54 AM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 10:58 AM
Clinton Hammond 13 Sep 01 - 11:00 AM
Bill D 13 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 12:13 PM
MMario 13 Sep 01 - 12:19 PM
KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 12:37 PM
Jim Cheydi 13 Sep 01 - 12:44 PM
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KingBrilliant 13 Sep 01 - 01:09 PM
Clinton Hammond 13 Sep 01 - 01:23 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 01:47 PM
Kim C 13 Sep 01 - 01:49 PM
Lonesome EJ 13 Sep 01 - 01:51 PM
Melani 13 Sep 01 - 02:08 PM
kendall 13 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM
Jeri 13 Sep 01 - 02:21 PM
Firecat 13 Sep 01 - 02:29 PM
Hawker 13 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM
Rick Fielding 13 Sep 01 - 02:38 PM
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Kim C 13 Sep 01 - 03:38 PM
GUEST,LoopySanchez 13 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 04:09 PM
katlaughing 13 Sep 01 - 04:41 PM
Wolfgang 13 Sep 01 - 04:47 PM
Les from Hull 13 Sep 01 - 04:56 PM
Bill D 13 Sep 01 - 05:08 PM
Linda Kelly 13 Sep 01 - 05:31 PM
Lonesome EJ 13 Sep 01 - 05:36 PM
CarolC 13 Sep 01 - 05:42 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 05:57 PM
Murray MacLeod 13 Sep 01 - 06:26 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 06:32 PM
katlaughing 13 Sep 01 - 06:47 PM
Murray MacLeod 13 Sep 01 - 06:49 PM
SINSULL 13 Sep 01 - 06:59 PM
Murray MacLeod 13 Sep 01 - 07:18 PM
Peg 13 Sep 01 - 11:27 PM
catspaw49 13 Sep 01 - 11:58 PM
Murray MacLeod 14 Sep 01 - 12:12 AM
sophocleese 14 Sep 01 - 12:22 AM
Steve Parkes 14 Sep 01 - 03:41 AM
Wolfgang 14 Sep 01 - 05:49 AM
The_one_and_only_Dai 14 Sep 01 - 05:55 AM
Steve Parkes 14 Sep 01 - 06:59 AM
Wolfgang 14 Sep 01 - 07:08 AM
Steve Parkes 14 Sep 01 - 07:38 AM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 08:02 AM
Whistleworks 14 Sep 01 - 08:05 AM
The_one_and_only_Dai 14 Sep 01 - 08:31 AM
Bill D 14 Sep 01 - 11:25 AM
Clinton Hammond 14 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 14 Sep 01 - 11:46 AM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 11:51 AM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 12:41 PM
Steve in Idaho 14 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM
Lonesome EJ 14 Sep 01 - 04:14 PM
MMario 14 Sep 01 - 04:25 PM
MMario 14 Sep 01 - 04:39 PM
Kim C 14 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM
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Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 16 Sep 01 - 10:03 PM
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KitKat 17 Sep 01 - 05:33 AM
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Crazy Eddie 18 Sep 01 - 06:16 AM
Clinton Hammond 18 Sep 01 - 11:03 AM
catspaw49 18 Sep 01 - 01:13 PM
Paul from Hull 18 Sep 01 - 06:09 PM
Clinton Hammond 19 Sep 01 - 09:34 AM
Wolfgang 19 Sep 01 - 11:14 AM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 01:04 PM
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Subject: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 01:39 PM

Like everyone, I share in the shock and horror of yesterday's catastrophic events, and offer all my condolences to the victims and their families and friends.

I am very apprehensive about the "timing" of yesterday's events, and hope upon hope that cooler heads (and aware of Nostradamus's predictions) will prevail as far as any retaliatory action, which will most certainly be taken (and which I consider entirely justified.)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Mickey191
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:09 PM

Would you please enlighten me as to his predictions? I was just going to post on this very question. Thanks


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Firecat
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:29 PM

I actually read the report on Nostradamus's predictions in the Daily Mail (UK paper) today. This is the report from the paper

DID NOSTRADAMUS PREDICT IT ALL?

The French prophet Nostradamus may have predicted the destruction of the World Trade Centre more than 400 years ago.

In his book Centuries, the 16th century soothsayer wrote: "Earthshaking fire from the world's centre will cause tremors around the New City. Two great immovable powers will war for a long time, the Arethusa will redden a new river."

Another verse refers to "The garden of the World near the New City, in the road of the hollow mountains. It will be seized and plunged in the tank, forced to drink water poisoned with sulphur."

Nostradamus experts believe "hollow mountains" to be the clairvoyant's way of describing skyscrapers.

In the sixth book of his predictions, Nostradamus says: "They sky will burn at 45 degrees. Fire appraoches the great New City. Immediately a huge scattered flame leaps up when they want to have proof of the Normans."

Nostradamus author Erika Cheetham believs this refers to New York, as it lies near the 45 degree parallel. Other translations interpret this as a nuclear attack on the city. A further verse, or quatrain, in Nostradamus's ninth book, could be interpreted as referring to hostages being used in an attack, describing "a captive, falsely faced to speak and act."

It may even predict the fact that George W Bush was in Florida, far away from the city at the time.

The verse reads: "The king will want to enter the New City, they will come to subdue it through its enemies. A captive, falsely faced to speak and act. The king to be outside he will stay far from the enemy."

(Daily Mail, page 26, September 12, 2001)

Just out of interest, what is an Arethusa?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:43 PM

Oh please...

May as well believe the theories of Eric vonDanikin...

Nostadamus....

What a load of hogs-wallop....


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: DebC
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

You are correct, Clinton. But I liked this little Nostradamus Nugget:

In 1555, Nostradamus wrote:

Come the millennium, month 12, In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader.

Deb


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: RWilhelm
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:54 PM

Nostradamus always predicts what happened yesterday, never what will happen tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:43 PM

Hopis, Edgar Cayce, Mayan, and many, many others also had/have predictions. There are more links to them, than you can shake a stick at, here: Multicultural Prophecies and Predictions


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

The one about the village idiot was an internet hoax.

I don't get the part about the Normans, though. Are there French people involved?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 05:39 PM

Maybe the hijackers were all named Norman.....


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:22 PM

He also predicted the end of the world in July of 2000.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:43 PM

See here for who Arethusa was.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:51 PM

well, I predict that nonsense will continue and superstition and gullibility will always have much too deep a hold on the minds of humans. Anyone want to bet me?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: marty D
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:04 AM

Bill D. YOU are the REAL prophet. Can I follow your teachings in my spare time? Any advice on the World Series?

marty


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Hille
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:48 AM

Maybe not predictions but an indication - my best friend was saying to me on Monday "SOMETHING is going to happen - I can't understand why I have this feeling - it's like there's almost a smell in the air" and you think well, "You've had cancer, Sweetie, the landlord wants you out of the apartment next month, Autumn IS in the air" - and then she got out her Tarot cards and asked what is happening ("for me") and got the 5 of Swords "Conquest through Strength" and the "Tower struck by Lightning" and you think well (at the time), that's just a load of bollocks isn't it - just proves these things are rubbish?

Does anyone know if any of these contemporary so-called pyschics who do long-range forcasts actually "foresaw" this one?

Several years ago, in the middle of August, my child-minder's boyfriend (when I went to pick up the kids) said to me "I had such a wierd dream last night - that I woke up to and although I hadn't seen it, but Princess Diana had been killed in a car crash and there were loads of flowers" And, me a cycnic goes "Yeah, well, people like her don't get killed in car crashes (okay, Grace of Monaco aside) I mean they are so well protected, aren't they? And, then a fortnight later....

What does any one else think? Do we humans have pre-emptive ability (even short range)? (I don't want to even go down the route of "Everything happens for a reason" and the New Age line - as it makes me livid) - but just human beings' empathic abilities. Presumably, evolutionary-ily we must have developed a sense of awareness of when a sabre-tooth tiger might be likely to be around (and the ones who didn't got eaten)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:52 AM

It's all there! All you have to do is rearrange the words, and change the ones that don't fit ...


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:43 AM

GUEST,Hille, I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but I had a strong sense of forboding the night before the attacks. And it surprised me, too, because at the time, things in my life were more mellow than they had been in a while. There wasn't anything in particular going on in my life at the time to cause me to feel that way. I felt pretty scared, and I didn't know why.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM

I feel a vision coming on....

A great city, or country, or sea, or desert.
Will be hit by a fire, or bomb, or flood, or drought.
It will be in year 2001, that could be counted from the birth of Christ, Mohammed or Buddha. Or it might be in the year of the cat.
And it will be during the course of the ninth month, which used to be the seventh month, or on new years day, which may be in April, or in the quarter of the the great digbat...

Do I get to get to be the master of predictions now?

Please?

Dave the Mystic


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:55 AM

Ok CarolC & Hille - next time you get that feeling, could you give us a nudge please?
Has anytone tried that 'rearrange the words & ditch what doesn't fit' theory on some other random text - just to see whether a prediction is that easy to construe retrospectively? I don't have the time right now, but I'd be really interested to see.

kristin


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:42 AM

"Ok CarolC & Hille - next time you get that feeling, could you give us a nudge please?"

*grin*

KingBrilliant, I could, but nobody ever listens to kooks like me...


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:48 AM

Bill D, You say: "well, I predict that nonsense will continue and superstition and gullibility will always have much too deep a hold on the minds of humans."

You are obviously a Scorpio then?

My favourite piece of graffiti ever was on a sign advertising an upcoming "Psycics Convention".
The graffiti artist had added "cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances".


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: English Jon
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:52 AM

Strange, I just had a bizzare sense of deja vu.

EJ


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,DMcG
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:23 AM

KingBrilliant:

Some years ago, I had to do a talk on some new company procedures that we were introducing and because it was near Christmas, I was told to "make it light-hearted".

I found the quatrains where Nostrodamus predicted our use of the new company standards , and also, as an encore, where Merlin predicted them.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:46 AM

Nostradamus is used for retrofitting, that is retrospectively fitting the facts to an ambiguous text. The only interesting thing is how malleable the text and the human mind is.

It is sobering to use older texts about Nostradamus to see how his 'predictions' were explained then. Lets just take the first two verses from Firecats post as examples and just any of my Nostradamus books. I stopped then for the game is too easy.

Earthshaking fire from the world's centre will cause tremors around the New City. Two great immovable powers will war for a long time, the Arethusa will redden a new river. is the 87th quatrain of the 1st centurie and reads in the original as follows:

Ennosigee feu du centre de terre.
Fera trembler au tour de cit‚ neufue:
Deux grands rochiers long temps feront la guerre,
Puis Arethuse rougira nouveau fleuve

In the one Nostradamus book I looked into it was explained as the successful prediction of the 1905(?) San Francisco earthquake. Why? Isn't it obvious that the two big rocks (in this translation it is not 'powers' but rocks) are the tectonic plates? And the fire from the center of the earth is the volcanic activity close to tectonic plates. The fairly new City at that time was of course San Francisco. Arethusa is of course (old Hebrew) Areth, now Erez, that is 'land' USA. You get it?

But he is careful, he considers alternative interpretations. The 'new river' getting red could also mean a communist taking over of the USA after a big earthquake in New York (written in 1982).

Now the next verse:
The garden of the World near the New City, in the road of the hollow mountains. It will be seized and plunged in the tank, forced to drink water poisoned with sulphur.

That is the 49th quatrain in the 10th centurie which goes as follows:
Iardin du monde aupres de cité neufue,
Dans le chemin des montaignes cauees:
Sera saisi & plongé dans la Cuve,
Beuuant par force eaux soulphre enuenimees.

Now what successful prediction was that in 1982? Come on, it's obvious! The three mile island (Harrisburg) near disaster it was. The 'garden of the world' is of course Pennsylvania with its mountains, New York is near with its skyscrapers and the poisoning with sulphur is his expression of the nuclear contamination.

The flexibility of the human mind is what makes these verses to look like predictions. Some of his quatrains have been used for more than half a dozen of successful predictions over the centuries.

Let's make a game, I give you two quatrains and you tell me what it was:

I, 29: Quand le poisson terrestre & aquatique
Par forte vague au grauier sera mis,
Sa forme estrange suaue & horrifique,
Par mes aux meurs bien tost les ennemis.

roughly (translation by the man who already had in mind what it was): When the fish that travels over both land and sea is cast up on to the shore by a great wave, its shape foreign, smooth and frightful. From the sea the enemies soon reach the walls.

And now an easy one, IX, 36:

Vn grâd Roy prins entre les mains d'vn loyne,
Non loin de Pasque confusion coup cultre:
Perpet, captifs foudre en la husne,
Lors que trois freres se blesseront & murtre.

roughly: A great King taken by the hands of a young man, Not far from Easter confusion knife thrust: Everlasting captive times what lightning on the top, When three brothers will wound each other and murder.

Go for it, you know now the game

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Hille
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:49 AM

CarolC - it's a problem isn't it? Supposing my childminder's boyfriend had thought to take his dream seriously? What should he have done - after all it was pretty specific dream. What about the "Tower struck by Lightning" card (especially as we thought this is "bollocks" and it obviously had nothing to do with our personal situation). Maybe, if we'd had better memories and read the newspaper a bit more thoroughly re. Bin Laden's recent threat, we'd have remembered the previous attack and put 2 and 2 together. The appalling thing in retrospect after many events, is that certain things do add up and "if only I/we had done this that or the other ..." is part of grieving process.

I think we all just need to be far more aware of each other and ourselves: I still am haunted by (20 years on) by the memory of a colleague at work with whom I'd a brief fling, waving at me from the bus stop as I cycled past - like stop, talk - and I thought "It's cold, it's dark, I just want to go home" and then he went home, turned on the central heating, had an epilectic fit in the bath, and by the time they found him (30 hours later)it took 6 weeks to identify his remains.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:56 AM

How does the Nostrodamus thing work then - is it chronological - ie does it say exactly what year each prediction relates to?
Anyway - I suppose that even proving that it can mean anything and everything doesn't disprove it as a divinatory tool - in fact it makes it even more suitable. Just we seem to be only any good at it after the event.
Carol - I'm sure they listen - they just don't take any notice... c'est la vie. :>)

Kris


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:21 AM

AFAIK none of Nostradamus' quatrains have dates affixed, except by us poor consumers.

None of this explains the line from the 'Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter' - 'Doe notte buye Beetamacks'...


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:22 AM

In seven of his several hundred quatrains are years mentioned.

Look e.g. at the first hundred quatrains (with English translation) to see that there is no temporal order.

As for Nostradamus' predictive powers already one of his contemporaries made fun of him with this play of words:

Nostra damus cum falsa damus,
nam fallere nostrum est;
et cum falsa damus,
nil nisi nostra damus

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:28 AM

Oh well then its obviously completely invalid as predictions! Excuse my ignorance - but why did he write it? Did he make a living as a prophet - or was he just a complete nutter?
Still reckon it could arguably be claimed as a divination tool - like a crystal ball from which the mind can create its own pictures. Does it get used as such a tool - and if so with what success?

Kris


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:42 AM

Al Stewart was into the Nostradamus stuff in a big way, specially in the album "Past, Present, and Future". I thought it was interesting, but probably inaccurate.

I have to fairly much agree with Wolfgang on this one. The Nostradamus material is simply too symbolic and convoluted for anyone to use it to predict anything accurately, and it can readily be made to fit most circumstances after the fact.

You could say that about the Book of Revelations as well...

It's more important for us to use our free will intelligently in the present than it is for us to predict future supposedly "inevitable" events. Given the fact that we have free will, we have the option to create a more desirable future at any time. And that's what gives me hope.

- LH


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:43 AM

Who makes a living as a prophet???

Besides Reverend Moon???

What's next? Uri Geller on the rescue teams so he can soften up the metal? Why not just have Doug Henning make all the rubble just vanish???


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:43 AM

Yes, he made his living as a prophet. He was writing yearly almanacs (for the year to come) which were full of words without any precision.

He was also acting as a (in todays words) psychic sleuth for good money. One example from 1562. In Orange, a French town, a chalice and other sacred objects were stolen from a church. The Bishop asked Nostradamus for an astrological expertise. Nostradamus answered quickly with a horoskope which was completely ununderstandable and an accompanying letter in plain French:

"Don't worry, Sire, all stolen objects will be found again soon. If, however, they are not found, be assured that an awful fate will await the thieves. ...they will have a painful death."

Clever, wasn't he?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KitKat
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:25 AM

I too did a general business and finance reading yesterday morning, just letting my mind roam. The first card was the Tower and the second card was the 10 of swords (disaster). Shortly after, I heard on the radio about the Trade Centre towers. I don't think that reading was about me at all.

Sure you can dismiss these things. It's up to you.

Pat


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:29 AM

What is the MO? See one modern Nostradamus as example:

Sollog the nets Top Mystic

A modern MYSTIC so accurate that the media calls him the new Nostradamus

Sollog's famous translations of Nostradamus Prophecies are here

See Prophecies about TWA 800 - Diana's Death - Death of JFK Jr (from a webpage)

Sollog was on the web for 'predicting' TWA 800 crash near New York from Nostradamus' quatrain VI, 97. That's the third one in Firecats' the one with the 45 degrees. I wanted to link you to that prediction but that son of a bitch was quick. While you still find his website by entering "TWA 800 and Nostradamus" in a web search the text now predicts WTC from the same verse. He hopes on our bad memories.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:53 AM

I got interested in tarot cards as part of my living history thing, and I have been surprised by them on more than one occasion. Of course they have nothing to do with being psychic, it's how you translate the images- but sometimes it is eerie.

I do think there are people who really do have a well-developed sixth sense... but these are the people who don't advertise with a giant palm outside their office.

On another note... I had a handwriting analysis last week, just for fun, and it was quite fascinating. Graphology is a little different from some of these other things, though, and is actually used by law enforcement (i.e., Unabomber, the JonBenet Ramsey case). Everything she said was right, all the way down to "you've had an injury to the lower left part of your body, like your leg..."

Two years ago I had a frightful case of bursitis in my left knee. Also, two months ago, I got a hummingbird tattooed on my left ankle.

Mister had his done too, and it was right on the money.

Anyway, I think this is one of those things that you just make of it what you will. :-)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:54 AM

Just for the fun of it I have entered "quatrain VI:97" (again the third above from Firecats' post with the 45 degrees) into a websearch to find:

- prediction of destruction of Geneva (new City) by Russians in war
- prediction of Comet Hale-Bopp: Hey, the new millennium is almost here, and at forty-five degrees, the sky will burn. That's what Nostradamus said in quatrain VI-97, right? Hale-Bopp will hit its perihelion in April '97 in the Northern sky at 45 degrees geographic latitude. And it'll be making the rounds in our part of the solar system around the same time Nostradamus scheduled Wormwood for a special guest appearance in the Apocalypse
- the US-Iraq war (Baghdad also being at 45 deg)
- the bosnia war (latitude 45)
- the destruction of New York by a Russian nuclear missile

There might be more, that was just a short trip into the abyss of predictions.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Peg
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:54 AM

I dunno about prophecies (though I think Nostradamus was kinda cool; he was a renaissance man who was skilled at many things); but pre-cognitive ability, particularly through dreams, has been documented in a number of individuals. Some have it frequently, others only occasional or one-time occurrences.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:58 AM

well now I just don't know what to believe! :>)
The only thing I know for certain is that I've never predicted anything (except for TV plots).
Must just be the non-sensitive type.
KitKat - do your readings usually work? what sort of accuracy?

Kris


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:00 AM

"has been documented in a number of individuals"

So have alien abductions, but that doesn't mean they happen... it's a total lack of empirical evidence that keeps me from believing...

I -want- to believe, but until I see proof, I just can't...

I agree that Nostro was kinda a neat guy though...

:-)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM

martyD...sure, call me for daily predictions..however, I am afraid they are much the same each day...*grin*..The World Series? I firmly predict that the team with the most runs will probably win....unless there is a 27-2 game, and/or a hurricane during game 4....in which case, I predict lots of bookies will take the money & run.

(Crazy Eddie...actually, I am a Taurus...a friend once got out her books on astrology and asked for my stats...date & time of birth...etc...I gave them to her, remarking with tongue in cheek that I "...didn't really believe much in things like astrology"...."ah, yes," she says sagely, thumbing thru the texts, "that's just what your chart says you'd say!" arrrgggghhhhh!~!!

so, you take all the Tarot readers in the world and have them synchronize their watches and do a reading simultaneously and fax the results and opinions to a central clearing house. THEN we see how well they agree.

The thing is, IF your readings of Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, Tarot cards, crystal balls, Astrological charts, bumps on the head, Ouija boards, tea leaves, goat entrails and chance encounters with visions of departed saints in the garden seem to be connected with some later event, you remember it...if nothing in particular happens, you forget about it.

Wolfgang has made the relevant point.....the mind is capable of finding connections and significant points whether or not any actually exist. We WANT answers and satisfaction and closure to our mysteries, so we create them, leaving out what DOESN'T agree with our careful analysis.......

(.....say, have I told you that I am doing a statistial analysis of Catspaw's postings, and I find that at times of highest incidence of scatological references, George Bush's grammar and coherence get worse?...I'm SURE that transmission of farts in the Phlogiston are responsible... and the letters in my alphabet soup spelled out 'sngwladpss' the other day, which is an anagram of 'catbush' to base 8 in Sanskrit transliteration....watch out, world!)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:13 PM

KimC - I thought that 'how you translate the images' was the very point at which any psychic element would enter the equation. And then I suppose that if you were to use the Nostradamus stuff in the same way as the Tarot then re-use of the same elements poses no problem?
Same goes for Catspaw's scatology - I reckon we should all have Catspaw Cards which we should spread in front of us and scry at every morning (probably best done in the throne room whilst purging the body of its excesses). No doubt many predictive correlations will ensue.
Ah well - that's about as far as my attentions span goes today - cheers for the info though.

Kristin


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: MMario
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:19 PM

I want a deck of "Catspaw Scatological Cards" --anyone with the artistic ability and lack of sense to actually make some of these up? images could be posted for downloading and printing...


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:37 PM

How about we all try to contribute at least one.....
Rooting back through the threads for inspiration...
How would we post images??

Kris


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Jim Cheydi
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:44 PM

Nostradamus ate my hamster


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 12:59 PM

I have a copy of Nostradamus, and spent some time last night examining the quatrains. They are all extremely convoluted and bizarre, with lots of references to powerful political forces of his time, such as Burgundy, Spain, Venice, and the Vatican. There is no evidence that the ville neuf he refers to has anything to do with New York City, and in his time it was little more than a Dutch outpost. The mentions of Hister which are often pointed to as evidence of his prediction of the Third Reich are also unclear and many times seem to refer to a geographical area rather than a person, and it should be pointed out that there is River Ister in Germany. There are many hallucenogenic images such as The fish will give birth to a man. He is in flight across the countryside. Seven wise ones will proclaim him. Two are murdered.

In short, as predictions the quattrains are nebulous and nearly useless, requiring extrapolations (Mao for "the Eastern One") to make any sense of them in retrospect. Edgar Casey's prophecies, from what I know of them, seem to be more striking and specific.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:09 PM

D'oh - just when I'd given up on this prophecy business you bring in a new geezer. Who is this Edgar Casey then?
Kris


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:23 PM

A dope fiend from the early 20th century who was convinced he saw the future in his 'lucid dreams'...

I put more stock in HP Lovecraft... at least he had the stones to say that what he was writing when he was stoned was fiction...


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:47 PM

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Fly-By-Nite Industries announced today that decks of "Catspaw Scatology Cards" will be released within the next month. Each card has a likeness of someone in the Catspaw family and can also be used in emergencies as asswipes. The "King of Crap" card has Spaw in all of his radiant glory showing a scene from his past where he had his palm read. It took several washings and a good deal of turpentine to get the paint off. The "Prince of Fools" card has Cletus whiffing the asses of the Reg boys and the "Circle of Light" card has Paw flaring off a bog one. Only those making prepayment will be shipped these Limited Edition decks. Those interested should mail cash (NO CHECKS PLEASE) in the amount of $49.95 (US) plus $18.97 Shipping and Handling to:

Fly-By-Nite Industries
842 Ripshitz Trail
East Bumblast, Ohio 43107

As always, with Fly-By-Nite, your satisfaction is guaranteed. Simply return the unused portion of of our products, and we'll retun the unused portion of your money.

**********************************************************

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:49 PM

Well, Kris, not necessarily, and maybe kitkat can add something here... There are traditional meanings for each card, but they may or may not apply; and what one person perceives in an image may not be what another person perceives in the same image. It's about using the images to make you think about your own situation, not about looking into a crystal ball and saying, I see a tall dark stranger in your future. And it certainly ain't about Miss Cleo, for those of you have seen the TV commercials.

And of course, it depends on who is doing the reading- there are a lot of readers who will tell you whatever you want to hear. They are salespeople, after all.

Anyway it is not something I take with great seriousness, it is more for fun than anything else, but sometimes it is weird. One time I did a reading for a lady whose daughter had been badly injured in a house fire --- she had a TON of swords, images of heartbreak, trial and disaster. Another lady with a stubborn teenage daughter had several images of conflict in her spread. But each of these people said, oh yes, I know what that refers to.

As I said, make of it what you will.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 01:51 PM

Dont get me wrong Clinton and KB. I put no faith in any of these prognosticators. I just favor the ones who are specific. That way at least you know when they are wrong.

The best prophets of the future have been people like H G Wells and George Orwell who have taken implications of present technology and societal trends and followed them down the path of logical progression.

And as regards Casey's dope use...it looks to me like Nostradamus had far stronger stuff.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Melani
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:08 PM

I have on two occasions had a very strong feeling that friends were seriously ill, long before the illness was diagnosed. In both cases it was true; one died, one survived. In neither case would they have paid the slightest attention to me if I had said anything--there were no real symptoms. Meanwhile, two other friends have also had serious illnesses, with the same result--one died, one survived. I had no clue in either case that anything was wrong prior to medical diagnosis. I can only conclude that it must work something like radio signals--I can pick things up from some people, but not from others. My husband and daughter are almost mysteries to me, even to the exent of gauging their moods, but my son is an open book. Go figure.

The same kind of thing probably applies to readers of Tarot cards or other prediction devices--some people are more sensitive than others, just like other abilities differ from person to person.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM

When George Westinghouse declared that he could stop a train with air, they said he was crazy. That school of thought that says "If you can not see it, feel it or touch it, it does not exist" is a bit ridgid for me. Remember, a wise man is never certain of anything.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:21 PM

Since nobody else tried Wolfgang's game:

I, 29:
Omaha Beach?
The movie "Free Willie?"

You've got the 3rd line of IX 36, "Perpet, captifs foudre en la husne" as "Everlasting captive times what lightning on the top," which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Looks like "Perpetually, captives thunder at the top," or perhaps "Captives thunder forever at the top." Gotta be the assassination of Martin Luther King, but I can't figure the 3 brothers wounding each other and murdering. If they're talking about the Kennedys, there weren't 3 left.

"Blesser" can also mean "offend."


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Firecat
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:29 PM

Thanks, Sorcha.

I was actually chatting to a lad in my German class today, and he said that one of Nostrodamus's predictions said that "in the first year of the new millennium, two twins will be divided and fall." I can't find that when I flicked through a book of his predictions. Please could somebody tell me which one to look at for that?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Hawker
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM

I have on occasion had premonitions of events before they happened. Some were small family happenings, some large world disasters. I would not call myself a psychic, but sensitive! What used to disturb me when it happened was why? Why was I told, or did I sense it, when I could do nothing about it? I didn't sense anything about the events this week, but had I, can you imagine, looking at the responses here, if I had phone NYPD and said, I have had a premonition that 2 planes are going to embed themselves in the WTC and another will crash into the Pentagon etc....they would think
1) crackpot
2) arrest this terrorist, phoning a warning
3) Charge this woman for wasting police time!

I do believe people have this ability as I have experienced it myself, I do not however think it sensible to try and fit world events to prophecieswritten centuries ago, we could all interpret it differently, as we do the bible / Koran - and look where that got us!

Oh! and I once visited a spiritualist church where the visiting medium had not been able to come - due to unfordseen circumstances!


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:38 PM

Clinton suggested:

"What's next? Uri Geller on the rescue teams so he can soften up the metal? Why not just have Doug Henning make all the rubble just vanish???"

Sorry Clinton, but I believe that god (or the diety of your choice) made Doug Henning vanish several years ago. He's not back yet (god or Doug) so I guess it wasn't part of his act.

Rick


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Jenny the T
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:53 PM

I won't voice an opinion on Nostradamus, nor on any other psychic phenomena.

However, I'm surprised, given the line

"They sky will burn at 45 degrees. Fire appraoches the great New City."

that no one bothered to look at a map: New York City lies at 40 degrees, not 45. No place in New York state lies quite so far north as the 45th parallel.

Maine, Michigan, North Dakota, Oregon ... these all have towns on the 45 degree line. Maybe we should alert the good folks in Alpena, MI to their impending disaster?

JtT


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:38 PM

Maybe the three brothers are Huey, Louie and Dewey. Or Larry, Curly and Moe. Or Shemp.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,LoopySanchez
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM

The next time someone goes to the books of Nostradamus (mistranslated as they are to correct his errors to match with history over the years) and predicts a catastrophe like the one Tuesday BEFORE it happens, well, I suppose that will be the first time, too, won't it?

And on the twelfth day of the ninth month of the first year of the third millenieum, a bunch of F'ing people with nothing better to do with their pathetic little lives will waste my time by starting an email rumor that Nostradamus was right again, after the fact, never minding that the same vague words were used to "post-predict" the sinking of ships, the Chicago Fire, the TWA Flight 800 explosion, among others. These people will dance in their parentss basements with glee, for they know no other way to enjoy their F'ing sorry excuses for a life.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:09 PM

Jenny,

you're right and Firecat's account was wrong. The 'real' Nostradamus adepts however who read the 'New City' as New York know this and read the original line of quatrain VI:97 'Cinq & quarante degrez ciel bruslera as 40.5 degrees latitude. That was just careless reporting by either Firecat or the newspaper.

Firecat,

there are many different translations often made by people which fitted the translation to the prediction. I searched a full online version of all quatrains for 'twins', 'first year' and 'millenium' without success. None of these words are in there. As for 'divide' the nearest hit was: A kingdom divided by two quarrelling brothers (VIII:58). Show me the quatrain and I'll show you other predictions made for that same quatrain in former years in the same manner as I did with your quatrains above.

Jeri,

the translations are just copied and pasted. Other translation wiedely differ. But congratulations, you are good at that game, you have won (actually, one cannot lose). I especially liked 'Free Willie'.

The book I took these two from has the first as prediction of the invention of the Polaris missiles. This is an exact description of a Polaris missile fired by a submarine. Even the wave the projectile makes when leaving the water is described exactly.

The second one was the famous about the assassination of the Kennedy's but the translation is not taken from an author who thought so. The author who thought so translated three brothers are injured and died. From that he predicted that Ted Kennedy would run for presidency and be killed in April (that prediction dates from 1982).

Three more together with the solution. But be creative, your solutions are just as good:

The royal bird over the city of the Sun,
Seven months in advance it will deliver a nocturnal omen:
The Eastern wall will fall lightning thunder,
Seven days the enemies directly to the gates.

The Berlin Wall

He will come to go into the corner of "Luna,"
Where he will be captured and put in a strange land:
The unripe fruits will be the subject of great scandal,
Great blame, to one great praise.

Apollo 13 landing on the moon

There will go from Mont Gaussier and "Aventin,"
One who through the hole will warn the army:
Between two rocks will the booty be taken,
Of Sectus' mausoleum the renown to fail.

Invention of the hot-air ballon. Perhaps that needs a little explanation to see iot clearly. Mont Gaussier = Montgolfier (brothers, inventors), Aventin = à vent (with the wind)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:41 PM

Way back up there CarolC said something about those who have a true 6th sense don't go hanging out a giant palm sign. She's right, they go quietly about their business and while all of the stuff in this thread has been interesting and/or funny, it certainly wouldn't encourage anyone who has those abilities to post. The world seems to have changed little since Cassandra's time. If anyone is interested in talking about this, privately, sans ridicule, please feel free to PM me.

kat


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:47 PM

Of course there are Nostradamus scholars that use a totally different approach and look with scorn upon those trying to fit actual words to incidents. They claim that the real messages are hidden in the letters and have to be unscrambled by computer.

Such scholars were e.g. Hewitt, V. J., and Peter Lorie. 1991. Nostradamus: The End of the Millennium. New York: Simon and Schuster. They had one prediction prominent on the back of the book: 1992: George Bush re-elected. Those poor buggers didn't know that specific predictions are best to be made about past events (or very distant).

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:56 PM

You should all take notice of what that noted Yorkshire seer, Mother Shipton, foretold:

The world then to an end will come
In Eighteen Hundred and Eighty One.

Nostradamus - he could mek 'is gob say owt!

Les


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:08 PM

I repeat...(edited for brevity...how many premonitions and predictions have NOT come true?

The "will to believe" creates it's own logic, language and analytic techniques. It is relatively easy to make a set of beliefs INTERNALLY consistent, just as it was easy for David Hume to 'demonstrate' that reality might not really exist...but **proof** is a pretty heavy topic, and most believers simply retreat into their recitation of "I don't care what you say, I know what I saw/felt/heard" and refuse to deal with the idea that they 'might' be wrong...

*sigh*...I know I am treading on the toes of people I generally respect and like, but NOT accepting magic and paranormal phenomena as truth is also a valid stance.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:31 PM

I am entirely sceptical about Nostrodamus, and am probobably more struck by the coincidence that each time Tony Blair has been elected within four months the first time Princess Di died and now this terrible tragedy has happened.Since I have experience of premonition myself I do believe that there have been instances of precognition. I 'saw' the Hampton Court fire before it happened and have also seen reports of peoples deaths in newspapers before they have died. These have been rare instances, although I have had feelings of agitation and forboding on occasion. Tuesday morning was one of those occasions and I do not have an explanation for this.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:36 PM

I just wanted to affirm that I do indeed believe in extra-sensory perception. I just don't believe that Nostradamus is a reliable example of it, and have no faith in his predictions. That I might ridicule his writings doesn't mean that I would do the same in regard to folks, like melani, who posted above. This thread was designated specifically about Nostradamus, not ESP as a legitimate phenomenon.

(better, Kat?)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:42 PM

katlaughing, I would love to take credit for what you have attributed to me, but I can't. I think it was Kim C who said the bit about sensitives not hanging out giant palm signs.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:57 PM

Well this here Nosedammit guy may be full of himself and all, but I tell you these damn "Catspaw Scatology Cards" work!!! I just shuffled the deck and laid them out and as I read them I was shocked!!! Right there in the cards, their position and order, it said that I'd have to take a shit within the next 5 minutes and.......uh-oh.....gotta' go........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:26 PM

Ickle Dorrit, on Saturday the St leger will be run at Doncaster. If you have one of your visions predicting what will win it will you please send me a PM?

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:32 PM

Whhoooeee........That was close.

MURRAY, I consulted the "Catspaw Scatalogical cards" and you need to put your money on Air Biscuit who will win by a nose.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:47 PM

Thanks, Carol. Sorry KimC.

LeeJ, that's fine, thanksdarlin'. I know I may have sounded a might "tetchy" and I know this was about the old guy, but others did start talking about their own experiences and I posted what I did because I don't want to go down the same road we did early with those who choose to NOT believe, as BillD noted, and as I know Wolfgang has posited in the past.

There is lots to talk about and a lot of experience, but none of us who's been here any length of time, will ever feel comfortable doing so on this forum. Why open ourselves up to the criticism and ridicule, again?

The offer of PM discussion still stands to any who might want to; or, maybe we could do it on Jon's Annexe, but it is open to all Mudcatters, so I suppose we'd wind up with arguments over there, too.

It's too bad we cannot feel safe relating our experiences to those of like mind, but I know it has ever been the way of the world and probably why I was probably burned as a witch in a past life.:-)

kat


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:49 PM

That is interesting Spaw, but as there is no runner called Air Biscuit, obviously we have to do some Nostradamus type manouevring to figure out which horse your scatological cards do in fact indicate.

The favorite at 15/8 is "Mr Combustible". I am having a hard time reconciling that with Air Biscuit so we look elsewhere. "Mediterranean" at 16/1 looks promising, I mean Italians and Greeks live in the Mediterranean and they wave their biscuits in the air when they are excited, so maybe it's that.

But I think what your cards are really telling us is "And Beyond", at 10/1. Same initial letter in both words. Yep, I think that is Spaw's scatcard selection for Saturday.

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:59 PM

The second plane that crashed into the WTC came in at a 45 degree angle. So what?

Wolfgang's Game:When the fish that travels over both land and sea is cast up on to the shore by a great wave, its shape foreign, smooth and frightful. From the sea the enemies soon reach the walls.
My response: Normandy. So what?

I have uncanny and unwelcome psychic abilities. I had no clue about the WTC tragedy. What good is it if you cannot control it or use it to avert catastrophe?

Last night I had a bizarre dream about visiting wealthy friends and ending up in a flooded street where I found hundreds of cats and kittens, many deformed. One litter - 5 kittens - were all attached to each other. Must signify a weird sort of world peace.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:18 PM

Wolfgang might be able to help me out here. This 45 degrees thing has me puzzled. At the time Nostradamus made his "prophecies" had anyone even mapped out the Earth's longitude in terms of "degrees" ?

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Peg
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:27 PM

Just because some phenomenon is not recorded with "empirical data" (whatever you mean by that) does not mean it does NOT Happen either.

I had a pre-cognitive dream about the death of Dizzy Gillespie. So I know at the very least it has happened to ME. I have also heard stories from other people who have had similar experiences.

You can't "PROVE" the existence of emotions. You can't PROVE that people dream, just because they describe some stuff they saw when they were sleeping. Doesn't mean people don't have emotions or dreams.

Most people, anyway.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:58 PM

I think y'all need to order some of these "Catspaw Scatology Cards." I dealt them out awhile ago and they predicted my stupid Weimaraner would lick his balls within the hour and by gawd HE DID!!! Simply amazing.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:12 AM

Let's get this crystal clear, Spaw. It was the dog's OWN balls he licked, right?

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: sophocleese
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:22 AM

I'm sorry Wolfgang but I'm not sure I want to know what:

The royal bird over the city of the Sun, Seven months in advance it will deliver a nocturnal omen: The Eastern wall will fall lightning thunder, Seven days the enemies directly to the gates.

may mean, it sounds pretty damn disgusting to me...sorta like a peacock mooning some city or other to warn us that Spaw's about to wander through after eating marmite again. Do really want to know about that?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:41 AM

The 'real' Nostradamus adepts however who read the 'New City' as New York know this and read the original line of quatrain VI:97 'Cinq & quarante degrez ciel bruslera as 40.5 degrees latitude.

Nice try, but decimals hadn't been invented in Nostradamus' time. Neither had America, but maybe I'm being picky.

In about 1958 or 9 I dreamed I stood in our back garden and watched Concorde flying over. Only It wasn't till some years later I saw drawings of the proposed Concorde and recognised it. Noy very exciting; designs like it had been bandied around for a good many years. (In fact it looks just like a Vulcan bomber stretched out a lot.) In the dream I reached up and (in that way that dreams have) the plane had become about a foot long, just abvoe my head; I took one wing between my thumb and finger, and removed a large piece from it. Now, it's only in the last five minutes I've been able to read anything into that. But I don't believe it was prophetic: most of my dreams could be retro-fitted to some later event, and I expect yours could too.

BTW, in "real" science, it's accepted that you can't actually prove anything; instead they have the concept of disprovability: it has to be possible to test a theory by finding ways of trying to disprove it. If all the ways you can come up with fail, then the theory is valid, but it's not "true", it's still just a theory.

Steve


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:49 AM

Murray,

I had not the slightest idea until you asked. Now I know more: Yes, latitude in degrees has first been used during Nostradamus' time (but barely so; if Nostradamus himself knew who can tell?), but the zero point was somewhere else (Madeira), so if you want to read it as latitude you come to a completely different place than today.

Rational arguments of this kind never have deterred Nostradamus scholars. They took words, part of words letters and turned and twisted them until there was a fit. 'Hadrie' became 'Hitler', 'Hister' became 'Hitler' and so on. The 'reasoning' was that Nostradamus made his prophecies deliberately unclear.

With so many liberties in interpretation and so many events to choose from it is no wonder that people have convinced themselves that there are matches between events and quatrains. This is a general tendency in humans (finding patterns in nonsense) and the explaining power of such an observation goes well beyond Nostradamus (but I'd prefer to stay focused on him).

You might have gathered that I am kind of skeptical about Nostradamus, but sometimes when I read a quatrain I really get a feeling of his power being more than I'd like to admit.

Take quatrain I:78,
To an old leader will be born an idiot heir,
weak both in knowledge and in war.

Now I have a feeling that this reminds me of something, someone, somewhere, but my recollection is weak. I'm better off to todays threads about American politics.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:55 AM

The whole quatrain being:

To an old leader will be born an idiot heir,
weak both in knowledge and in war.
The leader of France is feared by his sister,
battlefields divided, conceded to the soldiers


So, what's all that about?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:59 AM

If you disregard the fact that "Hister" is an old name for the Danube, it makes it much easier to make it into a "hidden" reference to Hitler. In fact, if you have very little or no actual knowledge of Nostradamus' times, you have little choice but to make (un-)educated guesses as to what he was talking about. A number of people have made historically-informed interpretations of N's predictions, and they can all (I'm told; I haven't read many of them!) be attributed to things that happened, or didn't happen, in his lifetime. My bible study has lapsed somewhat over the last thirty years, but doesn't it warn us about false prohets?

Steve


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:08 AM

Ah, Dai, that's a letdown when the idea is only to cite what seems fitting. But I'll try it the Nostradamus scholars' way:

The first two lines are obvious. The third line only seems to be a puzzle at the first glance. But wait: The sister of the leader of France obviously means the USA. 'Sister' is 'soeur' in French and the statue of liberty which in Europe stand pars pro toto for the USA was transported from France to the USA by a ship called 'Isere' which sounds similar to 'soeur' which only shows how cleverly Nostradamus disguised his prophecies. And the USA fear that as so often in former times common Nato action will be prevented or made difficult by France.

Line four: The fight will be on several battlefields and the 'Idiot heir' is a weak leader conceding the real decisions to his generals.

Or of course the sister of the leader of France means the English queen (thinking back at the entente cordiale) and this line predicts a future terror attack on Britain by Arabs coming over from France.

But then lets not come to hasty conclusions: in the French original it is 'le chef de France' and that could mean that a French cook will try poison the leader ('soeur' = Sire = leader) of the Western world.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:38 AM

How dare you suggest, Wolfgang, that Her Majesty is in any way related the the French? The Germans, yes (through the Hanovers); but the last French connection was .. er .. the Plantagenets. Mind you , when it comes to idiot heirs, she's got more than her fair share.

Steve

P.S. And don't take any notice of that Dai, he's Welsh, and they haven't had a Royal since the last Elizabeth!


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:02 AM

Last night I consulted the "Catspaw Scatology Cards" and the juxtaposition of the 3 of Beans and the 6 of Condoms directly below the King of Crap told me that Wolfgang would crap a quatrain within 24 hours.

Murray, regarding my Weimaraner, he licked his own balls. I think he does this because he can.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Whistleworks
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:05 AM

I doubt if anyone with good sense would actually scroll to the bottom of this thread, but if so, the quotes from Nostradamus are TRUE. And he is very REAL. Ralph Nostradamus lives in Briar Hill, Pennsylvania and everything he says comes true. No matter what.

Now, for my next impersonation.....

Geez,

Bob Pegritz


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:31 AM

That was way too convincing, Wolfgang... Ever thought of writing a book? (I know, I know)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 11:25 AM

"Just because some phenomenon is not recorded with "empirical data" (whatever you mean by that) does not mean it does NOT Happen either."...

The burden of proof is on the asserter.

If you have an 'experience' that can't be recorded or measured , all you can say is that some activity happened IN **YOUR** HEAD.... The human nind is an amazing, complex organ that can be tricked into feeling pain that isn't there...or ignoring pain that should be felt. The electrical activity OF the brain during dreaming can be recorded, but stuff the brain/mind thinks it sees (ghosts, premonitions, auras, deja vus...etc.) cannot be 'recorded'...it doesn't mean YOU didn't have the experience, it just means there is no evidence that the origin OF that experience is anything but your own mind re-arranging it's own memories as little neurons fire off with no obvious guidance.

If, someday, someone CAN show 'proof' of paranormal phenomena, I'll be the first to say WOW!.....but unrtil then, I repeat.....

**The burden of proof is on the asserter**

(what, ME? opinionated?....naawwwwwww)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM

"I had a pre-cognitive dream about the death of Dizzy Gillespie"

That's not pre cognition... that's coincidence... I've had it happen to me too...

"The burden of proof is on the asserter."

thanks BillD...

I will also reiterate... I -WANT- to believe... but for now, there's no proof...


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 11:46 AM

Murray- I predict that the favourite will win the St Leger , it did last year at 3/1, I know, I was there! :-)
Favourites have a very good record in the classics, they seem to win at least one of them every year.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 11:51 AM

Once again, these cards are amazing!!! I dealt out a few from the "Catspaw Scatology Deck" and when the 9 of Cheeks appeared directly below the Jack of Toots, I could see it right away....................Dizzy Gilespie IS dead!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:41 PM

MURRAY!!!! DON'T BET YET!!!!

READ THIS FIRST............

I am new at this and I think I misread the cards. Ya' see the third card from the King of Crap was the Nine of Trots with the picture of Cletus running for the bathroom and grabbing his ass. I asssumed this meant something that it did not and further review makes it clear that you need to bet on "Storming Home" at 16-1. Go for it!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM

He may have ate someone's Hamster - but he puked the hairball on my porch - I need a set of those cards spaw. Peace - Steve


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:14 PM

I discovered this quattrain last night.

The King of Flatulence arises by the Banks of the Ohio. Great is the terror and all children must flee the living room. Even the cat cowers in the backyard. The Queen refuses to have pizza delivered.

So far, I have been unable to decipher it.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: MMario
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:25 PM

of course one must first examine the quatrain in the french:

Le Roi de Flatulence surgit par les Banques de l'Ohio.
Grand est la terreur et tous les enfants doivent fuir la salle de séjour.
Même le chat se recroqueville dans l'arrière-cour(le jardin).
La Reine refuse de faire livrer la pizza.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: MMario
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:39 PM

after which one should translate back and forth betweenvarious languages - consulting the spanish, french, german, and cockney experts - resulting in:

Le roi fleurissant de flatuleszenz se lève des banques bloomin de l'Ohio.
En grande partie c'est l'horreur et la crainte les enfants devraient éviter la pièce(chambre) d'être.
Même on fait rétrécir(contracte) le Joueur aux boules Hat dans la cour.
Nellie Dean pousse le Marteau et le Clou à tête à tous à donner la


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM

Okay, BillD, explain me this.

I was driving home from work one night, like I always do, singing in the car. As I pulled into the driveway I was singing Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy. I walked into the house and heard my husband in the back hallway singing the same song.

We were singing the same song at the same time, one with no knowledge of the other.

These things happen with such startling regularity it is no longer startling in our house. Maybe that's the mind-meld that happens after many years together, but it's happened ever since we met.

Now, as far as Nostradamus is concerned, it's intriguing, but I don't put much stock in it. The predictions are too old and by now can apply to too many things, as others have mentioned. It's a fun puzzle for those who wish to piece it together.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:13 PM

This interpretation is fragmentary Mmario, but I believe that the "King of Flatulence" may refer to Louis IV, who was called "gassy" or "lighter-than-air" by the Prussians. The significance of "the banks of Ohio" is puzzling, since Nostradamus wasn't familiar with the American River. Perhaps it is an anagram for "oiseau", strengthening the "lighter-than-air" quality of Louis. The children who flee the living-room may refer to the twin sons of Junius of Hapsberg, who fell under Louis' sway. The cat is certainly Catherine de Medici who hides in "dans la cour", or near the "couer" or heart of Italy. Louis' Queen would certainly not have allowed the ordering of "pizza" since that dish did not exist. She did, however, block the demolition of the Tower of Pisa!


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 10:03 PM

My prediction was right, the favourite won the St Leger Milan 13/8F.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Sourdough
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 10:33 PM

There is a site on the internet that I automatically turn to whenever there is a stunning story moving on the Internet. It is called Urban Legends and it has been amazingly helpful at getting at the truth and falsity of a claim. Not only does the site give their opinion, it offers the sources, background and context so you can check their conclusions out yourself.

I wondered if they had yet had a chance to look up the Nostradamus claim and was surprised to see that they had. I think you will find the story very interesting.

I bookmarked this site a couple of years ago and find that I go there a lot,sometimes just to browse. I have learned from them that a number of my favorite tales turn out to be false or exaggerations of reality but there are a number of things documented there that are truly stranger than fiction. If you want to look it up the Nostradamus story for yourself, go to:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

Unless or until a Joseph Clone transforms the earl above to a blue clicky, you will have to cut and paste this address into your browser. I recommend the site heartily. It really is interesting, and responsible.

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KitKat
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 05:33 AM

Dear Kris & Kim C. Sorry I have been slow responding to your comments on my tarot reading but I did not log on over the weekend. I have been using the cards for over 20 years now for my own and my friends readings. In my experience, the cards generally reflect the issues and concerns going on in the questioners own life - pentacles for a career/money issue, cups for relationships and so on. The only few occasions where the reading has seemed meaningless is where the questioner has not concentrated whilst shuffling the cards - or actually is afraid of the result and so fights against any kind of empathy with me or the cards. In my view, they do not generally predict the future, but the likely outcome of your situation, givenm how the cards say you are reacting to it. That's why I was so amazed to see the Tower and the 10 of Swords - precisely because it seemed nothing to do with me. Yes, it could be sheer co-incidence - it's just that it has never happened before.

I don't seek to force my views on anyone else and I don't expect other people to do likewise. I think there is a little too much ridicule going on in this thread though. Just because we don't know how something happens doesn't mean it's rubbish. I'm keeping on open mind.

Pat


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 05:51 AM

Click here for the Urban Legends Site referred to by Sourdough above.

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 06:21 AM

The most influential book I ever read during my formative years was "The Science of Chance" by Dr Horace Levinson. This book was an eye-opener to me, and if you have any predisposition to believe in premonitions, miracles, or any such like, for the sake of rationalism you owe it to yourself to read this book.

The book was originally published by Faber & Faber and is, I suppose, out or print by now. However your local library will be able to get a copy.

Read it and get your Weltanschauung updated !

Rationally

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Sourdough
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 09:33 PM

Murray MacLeod:

Thanks for making the blue clicker to Urban Legends. I hope that some will take a look at it. It is a fine site run as a labor of love, I believe.

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 10:21 PM

I visited the site, I think Nostradamus is a bunch ot crap I have had the occasional premonition though as I said in an earlier thread, I had a dream about a certain horse (Kings Best) winning a race, it then went on to win that reace 8/1, it was not the favourite, anyone can predict a favourite will win and 1/3rd of the time they will be right.If I ever dream of a hose winning a race again I willpost it here, before the race, so anyone intersted can get their money on.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Peg
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 11:13 PM

Clinton wrote:

"I had a pre-cognitive dream about the death of Dizzy Gillespie" That's not pre cognition... that's coincidence... I've had it happen to me too...>>>>

Do tell.

I dreamed of his death *the night before* I learned it had happened in fact (I saw the news the following morning). Is that still a coincidence?


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 06:09 AM

John in Hull,

if too many believe you the horse will become favourite

Peg,

that could also be cryptomnesia

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 06:16 AM

Reference : Spaw, catspaw49 Date: 14-Sep-01 - 08:02 AM

Murray, regarding my Weimaraner, he licked his own balls. I think he does this because he can......

Spaw, do you wish you could do that?.............
Give him a biscuit, and maybe he'll let you!


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 11:03 AM

That is -absolutely- a coincidence...

murry... sounds like a damn good read that...

I'll keep an eye out fer it...

.-)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 01:13 PM

Frankly Eddie, I'd just as soon he licked my balls, but then again.........

Don't forget to order your "Catspaw Scatology Cards" folks. I messed up the horse race because I didn't read them properly. Practice DOES make perfect and I'm getting better. Again this morning I consulted them and found that Dizzy Gillespie is still dead. Far out huh?

I did a second reading and was mystified at the accuracy which can be attained through proper interpretation! The cards before me said that I "would be overcome by the fumes of rotting vegetation in a wet and humid place." Well last night I had sauerkraut and this morning I farted in the shower! Simply amazing isn't it? Order yours TODAY!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 06:09 PM

More contrived nonsense (to my mind, anyway)

Sent to me by a British-born friend who lived in America for 25 years, & got it sent to her by someone in the States.

The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11

9/11 = 911 Emergency's Phone number

September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11

After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.

119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11

Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11

The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11

there's more ..........

State of New York - The 11 State added to the Union

New York City - 11 Letters

Afghanistan - 11 Letters

The Pentagon - 11 Letters

Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters (convicted or orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993)

Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11

Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11

At least Nostrodamus got PAID to do this kind of thing....


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:34 AM

Somebody has WAY too much time on their hands....


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:14 AM

Why have they left out George W. Bush, 11 letters?

It reminds me of a very old political joke in Germany before the 1965 election. The then very old (89 years) Konrad Adenauer was chancellor for the CDU, then still young Willy Brandt was the contender for the SPD.

The joke: Brandt and Adenauer meet and Brandt says to Adenauer: "I have detected a hidden numerological political law for this century in Germany. I'll write it down for you.
The first eighteen years until 1918 saw (emperor) Friedrich Wilhelm II in power. Eighteen years, eighteen letters.
The next was (president) Ebert from 1918 to 1923, five years, five letters.
Then came v. Hindenburg, 11 letters, for the 11 years from 1923 until 1934 (Hitler came into power in 1933, but very old v. Hindenburg remained president until his death in 1934).
Then came Adolf Hitler as chancellor and president, 11 letters, for the 11 years from 1934 to 1945.
Then came the four allied powers for the four years from 1945 to 1949.
And now it is you, Dr. Konrad Adenauer, 16 letters for the sixteen years from 1949 until now, 1965. Your time is up according to the numerological law."

Adenauer looked long at the figures and said: "My young colleague, you have forgotten my 14 honorary doctorates."

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 01:04 PM

Some people believe in stuff, some people don't. 'Sokay. I have had fun learning about tarot cards. It's an interesting process.

Many years ago, my mother and some of her gal pals went to a fortune teller just for the heck of it. The lady told her that she would marry again, a man with white hair.

Mom probably forgot all about this; I don't know, she never mentioned it again. But my stepfather has white hair. Probably a lucky guess.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:14 PM

One of Nostradamus lesser known quatrains:

Quand le nombre des postes devient trop Alors, il faut que le main du chat quarante-neuf Fait un cliquie bleu Et aborde un discussion nouveau.

Just wish I knew what it all meant.

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Gloredhel
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:53 PM

Paul from Hull--

Yeah, number stuff is easy to do. When we read War and Peace in my sophomore lit. class (a character does this in the book) my teacher had us all use number systems to make the letters in our names add up to 666, proving that each of us was the anti-Christ. I don't know anyone who couldn't do it, although the fact that one guy has 6 letters in each of his names is a little wierd.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:44 PM

Kim C...(I have been busy for a couple of days)."Okay, BillD, explain me this. "

...well, I don't need it explained. It is interesting, that's all. I have picked up the phone to call someone and found them already on the line, calling me...strange, but *shrug*.

Once, I looked at a digital watch, and it was 11:11 on Nov. 11...and off & on for years, I tended to notice myself looking at the clock at 11:11...and then it seemed to stop..mostly. Silly...strange...but as far as I can tell, IT MEANT NOTHING: and I have had other events of the same nature....and deja vu and scary dreams...so far, I am batting about .000 in my ability to predict. Your mileage differs? Fine..*grin*..play the stock market!

Do people really read minds and 'see' the future? Let me know when you have something more than temporary statistical anomolies. I just don't **need** such things explained. Some people just seem to be psychologically constituted to want explanations for phenomena like simultaneous singing, but cause & effect rules are a bit more stringent than that.

Try an experiment where you agree to call your husband every day for several months and ask each other what songs you just sang....when you get up to 5%...call me, and I'll be awed!


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:03 PM

Ah geez Bill.....What YOU need is a deck of these Catspaw Scatology Cards!!! They really do work man!!!

I just dealt out an array and with my newly acquired reading skills, I saw clearly that not only is Dizzy Gillespie still dead, but John Coltrane is too!

Ya' gotta' order a set Bill......They'll make you a believer!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:07 PM

Anyone who reads the book by Dr Levinson which I mentioned above will no longer be surprised or amazed by coincidences. He demonstrates statstically (with easy to understand mathematics) why coincidences are bound to happen, and that it would indeed be remarkable if they didn't happen.

But coincidences is what they are, nothing less, nothing more, no matter how shaken or impressed you were at the time. Remember,as a parallel, even though the likelihood of you winning the State lottery is astronomically small, the probability that someone will win it on any given occasion is quite high.

Murray


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:12 PM

I always figure I have about the same chances of winning whether I play or not.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:51 AM

Spaw,
How much does a deck of them there Scatalogical Cards cost? I reckon I'd best order two sets. I seem to have a habit of losing cards, leastwise I'm often told that I'm not playing with a full deck.

Do you supply an instruction book with 'em?
I had a dream last night that I was using the Cards, and got a strange combination.
It's got to mean something; any ideas on interpreting it?

Tin of Curried Beanz (sorry, that should read TEN, not TIN)
Ace of Stink
King of Crap
Knave of Farts
Seven of Flames


I'd sure appreciate if you can shed any light on it!
Your devoted diciple, Eddie


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:21 AM

I don't myself need explanations for things like that. Sometimes the coincidences, or even a string of them, seem very, very strange. That's all. Synchronicity.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:47 AM

'spaw...since it was MY idea that sparked them cards in the first place, I think I should get a free set! But I see by my tea leaves this morning that I should not sit by the mailbox waiting.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Optimistic
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:33 PM

I certainly hope that old "Nosty's" predictions are correct because according to my reading of him, my wife is actually going to have sex with me this month.


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:42 PM

There are predictions then there prophesy that is a prediction tainted with religion. THe more generalized the more "accurate " to the believer. However:::: When it comes to translations of old French ,such as Nostrodamus, a GOOD translation makes a big difference.

If done well it sounds like this; To the east of the salty river Shiites full of hate send messages by lightening Pirates ram the great ship of state The great treasure sinks

If translated poorly;

In the Great Salt Lake Full of hateful electric turds Large or'deurves float meeting the shore The great memorabillia stinks


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Sourdough
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 04:55 PM

Here is what the Urban legend site has to say about the "significance of "11". Also, towards the end of this post is my on take on coincidences and their meaning.

The telephone country code of 119 is used for neither Iran nor Iraq -- Iran's country code is 98, Iraq's is 964, and 119 is unassigned. Also, American Airlines Flight 77 carried 64 people (58 passengers and 6 crew members), not 65.]

As for an explanation of the other "11"s., trhey say something that Wolfgang and others have been saying in different forms.

"It is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist. We attempt to impose a gestalt on randomness because chaos is impossible to comprehend, hence our fascination with recurrent themes. We feel something of great import is going on if a particular number comes up time and again, and we are unsettled by it.

"And yet, it's all randomness. That is not to say that at times any number plucked from the air will not appear more often than is the norm because such clumpings are only an expected part of the process of random distribution. Even though a flipped coin comes up heads five hundred times out of a thousand, it does not follow that each 'head' occurrence is immediately followed by a 'tails' -- inevitably during a run of a thousand trials, there will be moments wherein the 'tails' tally varies significantly from the 'heads' count. Clumping can and does occur, and random numbers seemingly appear more often at various moments in time. Over the long run, of course, everything evens out. But at the moment when 13 comes up four times in a row on a roulette wheel, or 11 seems to jump off the page at one, it all seems so very eerie.

"There is nothing inherently portentious about the number 11. Other numbers such as 13, 7, 4, and 3 are strongly tied to a number of supersitions, both good and bad. But 11 is as innocuous a number as there could be.

"Another way of looking at the seemingly impressive array of 11s showcased in the widely circulated e-mail is:

"Date of the attack: 11/9 11 - 9 = 2 Date of the attack: September 11 = 1 + 1 = 2 Year of the attack: 2001 = 2 + (0*0*1) = 2 + 0 = 2 September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11 = 1 + 1 = 2 Telephone country code for Afghanistan: 93 9 * 3 = 27 93 - 27 = 56 = 5 + 6 = 11 = 1 + 1 = 2 World Trade Center: 2 towers World Trade Center attacked by: 2 airplanes Each airplane: 2 wings The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11: 1 + 1 = 2 New York = 2 words The Pentagon = 2 words Ramzi Yousef = 2 words"

The above was taken from the URban Legends site - the following is my contribution:

A very effective scam run at race tracks is for a tout to go around telling people, "confidentially", the name of the winning horse in the next race. However, gives different names to each person so that he has small groups of people who had been told by him that a particular horse would win. Of course, he did not expect them to place any money on his recommendation, he has first to build up their trust. However, one of the horses wins the race but it does not matter which one. He now has the attention of that group whom he had advised to place their money on the winning mount. They take him seriously but realize that it might have been just a lucky guess. He next tells each of them in this smaller group the name of the horse that will win the next race. Again, though, he gives each bettor each a different name. Again, a horse wins the horse race - nothing remarkable in that but the bettor who happened to have been given what turned out to be the second winning tip is now sure that the tout has great instincts or information and will place a large bet with him on the next "sure thing". After all, his equine advisor proven himself, he had come through twice with winners! And what are the odds of that!!?

Of course, this scam be run through several more layers by starting out with a bigger initial group making the psychic or handicapping abilities of the tout seem even more paranormal to the "wining" bettor but to someone looking at the entire system, it is just the working out of the inevitable.

Through no fault of our own, we often are in the position of the bettor. It is hard, as well as counter-intuitive, to step back and see the inevitability of entire system but that is what Wolfgang and others here are asking us "bettors" to do. It makes more sense to me than hypothesising tha tthere are unseen forces in a web of which Man is a part and that Man has the ability to interpret and control them. To me, that seems to be hubris.

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:02 PM

you mean my 11:11s on the clock might have had prophetic portent??? and I ignored them?...wow.....

(oohhh I like that prophetic portent I may use that again!)


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Nemesis
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:37 PM

Well, I can confidently predict that most of the TV listings tonight will contain programmes that I will have "seen" before and (hey, spooky) I predict that in a few months time I'll also being watching something I've "seen" before (Or more probably, reading a good book instead!)

Hille


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Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:56 PM

Hehehehe....I didnt check Snopes Urban Legends for this, even though I've 'subscribed' to it for a year or so, but I was pretty sure someone with more knowledge or more access to information than me would be able to bebunk this nonsense.

I just wonder at the mindset of those that 'create' this sort of thing...but wonder MORE at that of those that blithely post it on, whatever kind of email 'chain letter' it is....


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