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Two Capos...

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McGrath of Harlow 13 Sep 01 - 04:31 PM
UB Ed 13 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM
reynardyne 13 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM
Kernow John 13 Sep 01 - 05:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM
Clinton Hammond 13 Sep 01 - 05:28 PM
breezy 13 Sep 01 - 06:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Sep 01 - 06:11 PM
sophocleese 13 Sep 01 - 07:11 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 13 Sep 01 - 07:14 PM
sophocleese 13 Sep 01 - 07:41 PM
DonMeixner 13 Sep 01 - 10:39 PM
Midchuck 13 Sep 01 - 11:36 PM
Bert 13 Sep 01 - 11:52 PM
clansfolk 14 Sep 01 - 05:31 AM
Cappuccino 14 Sep 01 - 06:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Sep 01 - 07:10 AM
Cappuccino 14 Sep 01 - 08:13 AM
Murray MacLeod 14 Sep 01 - 08:37 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Sep 01 - 08:48 AM
Murray MacLeod 14 Sep 01 - 08:52 AM
Musicman 14 Sep 01 - 09:02 AM
Murray MacLeod 14 Sep 01 - 09:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Sep 01 - 09:46 AM
Clinton Hammond 14 Sep 01 - 10:19 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Sep 01 - 01:42 PM
Steve in Idaho 14 Sep 01 - 01:55 PM
Mooh 14 Sep 01 - 02:05 PM
Eric the Viking 14 Sep 01 - 05:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Sep 01 - 05:54 PM
Murray MacLeod 14 Sep 01 - 06:07 PM
GUEST,Greg O'Haver 15 Sep 01 - 01:26 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Sep 01 - 07:18 AM
clansfolk 15 Sep 01 - 12:48 PM
clansfolk 15 Sep 01 - 01:03 PM
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Subject: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:31 PM

Bought an extra capo at a folk festival at the weekend, so I'd have a flat one as well as a curved one for an instrument that likes flat capos.

Anyway in a session I suddenly thought it'd be fun to try using the two capos on the one guitar.

The point being, with conventional tuning you can stick a capo on the second fret leaving the bass string un-fretted, so that when you play D chords you get a dropped D effect, and you can keep the normal fingering for G and A to give you the three chords, and so forth. (Which gives an advantage over the dropped D tuning if you wan to play a G shape.)

Which is fine - except that it means you are playing in E, and noone ever plays in E in the kind of sessions I go to (well, Em perhaps). So it's a trick but not too useful. (Handy for singing but limited.)

But it occurred to me that if I put a capo to hold the bass string on the third fret, and then put a second capo two frets up to cover all the other strings, then when I play D triad chords, I'm playing in G. And if I move the whole contraption up two frets, and play G chords, I'm playing in D. And I get that nice deep bass string every time I play a D shape or an A shape and so forth. And those are the keys you play in most of the time in the sessions I get to. And lots of other key possibilities for singing purposes.

Yes, I know it all sounds horribly complicated, and looks clumsy, and you can get the same effect without using capos at all if your up to it. But it works brilliantly in a session, and I haven't seen anyone else do it, so I thought I'd pass the idea on. (And we need a few threads that aren't about death and hatred and so forth this week.)

Also I thought maybe other clever souls have come up with other sneaky ways of using two capos to advantage, and you'd share them.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: UB Ed
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM

Well, OK. That is different. The only time I've used two capos was for one to hold the sheet music from blowing away...

You do get a "ten" from the judges for creativity.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: reynardyne
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

Pers'nally, I'd just detune the low E string.
'Get with the times, man!'


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Kernow John
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:05 PM

McGrath
Thank you, thank you, this is my first real laugh this week.
By the time I got halfway through the fifth para I thought "what the f--k is he on about" and just burst out laughing. I didn't comprehend any of it.
I'll try again tomorrow when I'm not so tired as I am genuinely interested.
Thanks again
John


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM

Well, it makes a change from trying to solve the problems of the world.

Tuning the E string down to a D is easy enough, but then your standard G chord and C chord fingering won't work, which it will with this. And you can't do it on impulse in the middle of a set of tunes, whereas this you can.

Another way of using two capos is mentioned in a great litle book called The Irish Bouzouki, by Niall Ó Callanáin and Tommy Walsh (Waltons, Dublin. "Niall has a system of using two capos, one of which can be easily flicked off for a quick down change, the other being already in place for the new key."

So I'm not the only fella around who likes to get by without retuning, and has a lazy way with chords.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:28 PM

There's a picker locally who's absolutely amazing.. he'll stage as many as 3 shubs on his guitar and in the course of one song, flip them off without missing a beat...

He really is unreal!!

:-)


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: breezy
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:04 PM

Mick Pearce is an "Ineverusesacapofolker" so there, so at our song session we all play in d sharp or b ,just to give him a challenge. he is good though. he plays every monday at the bull in redbourn herts eng. .


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:11 PM

Another reason to get across there some time with my guitar bristling with capos. I'm trying to work out a three capos trick as well...The trouble is, it's got to be a useful one too, to count.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:11 PM

Well I've seen Eileen McGann perform with two capos. That seemed to be so she could quickly start another song in a different key by removing the higher, Keyser, capo.

I like using that Drop E tuning myself, its nice for my range and gives different voicings for some Em songs. As I'm a lousy guitar player I need all the help I can get.

I hadn't thought of using two capos though but now I might give it a shot on a couple of Gm tunes.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:14 PM

Try buying a Scott Tuning Capo, Guy down Derby way makes wonderfully adaptable capos. Each one of 6 segments can be turned so it either rests or not on a string. Placed for example on the second fret with a segment resting on strings 5,4,3 is very similar to DADGAD. Cost about £8. Complete with a mini guide to the basic tunings


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:41 PM

Raggytash, I have enough difficulty dealing with six strings as it is, now you want me to play with six mini capos as well? YIKES!!!


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:39 PM

I use two shubb capos all the time on my long neck banjo. One capo to set it to a normal scale length and the the to capo around for keys while not changing the fingering for G tuning.

I like the tunable capo notion and I have used two capos on the guitar to simulate drop D tuning before. Its quick and it works.

Don


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:36 PM

McGrath, I don't want to be mean, not very anyway, but have you checked a good music store for the Keyser "Drop-D" capo? They've been out for a couple of years anyway. They have a cutout where they would contact the low E, to get the same effect.

One of those on third fret, a standard one on first fret, use D positions. Best way to play in F. Use G positions, best way to play in Bb.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Bert
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:52 PM

Sheesh McGrath - I suspect that you're just showing off.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: clansfolk
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:31 AM

Try replacing all your tuners on the guitar with "Scruggs Pegs" - you can get some great tunings - quickly and some strange other effects as well - however that does come at a cost - likewise you can use a dropped D detuner on your bottom E - these are available to match schaller guitar tuners.

re. 2 capo's - I've been using a shubbs partial capo for years along side my "normal" capo - handy for DADGAD effects in different keys (G = normal capo 3 - partial capo 5) comes in handy at sessions and still allows the playing of standard chords (D shapes) at the same time - added bonus - confuses other players trying to find what key you're in!

The shubbs partial capo can also be used to give and open G tuning (in the key of A!) in the open position by putting on the other way around and are now available in the UK from The Music Room and Frets in Liverpool.

The advert wasn't intentional but so many people have asked where I got mine from (Shubbs direct)and where they can get them in the UK as so many dealers deny they exist! - before you cut down an existing capo - from experience I can tell you it doesn't work as well!

Have fun

Pete


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Cappuccino
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:34 AM

I used to play in a band with a singer who used a capo at the fifth for some Roger Miller song which featured a curious chord, G-something-or-other, which is all six strings open. When he got to it, he would form his left hand into the most convoluted fingering possible, but * below * the capo, and twisting his face in concentration to give non-guitarists in the audience the impression that he was playing something quite incredibly difficult.

The audience often looked greatly impressed, but the effect was occasionally lost when the backline musicians lost the place through laughing too much.

- IanB


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:10 AM

Open strings at the 5th fret? I think that'd be an D 11th. Not a chord for which there is a great demand.

(I think the first chord on the Beatles' Hard Day's Night is an A 11th, which is the chord you get if you drop your guitar on the floor.)


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Cappuccino
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:13 AM

Sorry, I am of course being quite typically imprecise in my terminology. I meant open strings before putting the capo on...

Brilliant Beatles suggestion... one for 'secret recording techniques of the 1960s'.

- IanB


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:37 AM

Pete, why doesn't a sawn off Shubb work as well? I have been using one for years and it seems to work fine for me. Have to admit I didn't know they made a partial capo until now.

All sorts of cool capo stuff at the Shubb website Click here

Murray


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:48 AM

I always find an ordinary capo will work fine for just fretting the top five strings.

I've thought of getting one of those tuning capos, but I've felt it'd be a bit of a drag trying to work out what was what, with six strings all liable to be different.

One idea that's always struck me as handy is the banjo 5th string capo idea, and I wonder if anyone's ever used one on a guitar. (Or the little hooks banjo players use for the same purpose.)


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:52 AM

Kevin, I used to use an ordinary Shubb to fret five strings, but the problem is it can swivel since it only rests on a single point at the back of the neck. This can be embarrassing in certain circumstances. Sawing it off does create a more stable set-up.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Musicman
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 09:02 AM

Something i've just started to do.....got this idea from my brother in law who's a professional guitar player...(he has one of the adjustable capos i think...)

I use the Kyser capos and have a second one (different colour) which i've cut the rubber so that it covers only three strings.(need to cut fromthe middle of the capo, not the end) then i can use it for playing 'open' A tuning or cover the A,D,G strings and get a DADGAD tuning. Combined with the main capo and you can play in various parts up the neck.. Works quite well, you just have to adjust your DADGAD fingering a bit.....


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 09:19 AM

Good tip that Musicman, never occurred to me. I can see yet another Shubb capo making its way into my gig bag.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 09:46 AM

Doesn't work on my concertina - and the capo's left bloody great big marks on my thumbs.

Do you reckon if I wanted to sing in a higher key I should put the capo round my neck or round my...

Oh, never mind;-)

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:19 AM

Ya want DADGAD effects??? Play in DADGAD...

I've screwed around with partial capoing and such like, and find it much easier, and it sounds a hell of a lot better, to simply retune...


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 01:42 PM

All depends on where you're playing and with whom. Pub sessions tend to be a bit noisy and the tunes come and go a bit fast for retuning.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 01:55 PM

This sounds like a complicated process!! I do like a capo now and then though. I've a small injury to my left hand that makes playing in F very difficult. Bless the capo - the rest is just not playing the offensive string. Course for me it could all be construed as offensive :-) Peace - Steve

I am doing better with my bar chording though :-)


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 02:05 PM

Hmmm...I search of Mudcatville will find all kinds of discussion on this very subject. Partial capoing and virtual tunings have been around for centuries and every so often someone (like me) thinks he's discovered something new with this, but it's been done before.

Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:38 PM

I've used 2 capo's like you have McGrarth,, sounds quite good and it's fun to experiment. Raggy, where'd I get one of them tuning capo's ? Do you have an address?

I've just thought of some alternative capo's for other instruments.
Bodhran= bag of cement
Concertina (for dave) Strong elastic band
Accordian for Sam and Skipjack=1 or 2 bungees
melodian=Ratchet cargo strap
Whistle=various wine corks (cut to fit)
Before any other bugger says it! My guitar needs a capo on 20th fret!


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:54 PM

Of course the other way of getting an extra capo is to borrow someone else's finger. "Could you give us a hand with this?"


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:07 PM

SO what are you saying Clinton, you tried, and persevered with the partial capoing that Musicman suggested and despite your best efforts, it just didn't work out for you?

Murray


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: GUEST,Greg O'Haver
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:26 AM

I've used double capos for a couple years now and I've come up with some chord formations that work real well. I have modified the Keyser Drop-D to make a double drop-D also, and a little lever devise that easily pushes down the sixth string for Em formation chord. You can also play in other chord formations like G and C with both the single and double drop-d capos. I also use actual tunings, but double capos give a different sound that is really quite appealing.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 07:18 AM

Tell us more Greg, that sounds interesting.


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: clansfolk
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 12:48 PM

Murray,

The Partial Capo has a "dog leg" to raise it higher over the bass E string - I found my Home brew could catch the E string unless placed with care - where as the Shubbs made partial can be thrown on in a drunken stupor and still work, and as they're much the same, price wise, I would always recommend the "real thing"

However when it comes to replacement rubbers (snigger, snigger) I always buy the full size ones and cut them to fit the partial - saves a bit of money!

Pete


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Subject: RE: Two Capos...
From: clansfolk
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:03 PM

Tried a capo on our lead singer (male) - it seems to work better when placed on the body area - about half way along - rather than on the neck as this only muffled the sound and caused a strange blue shading in and around the area of the neck and head. Some of the notes when placed on body seemed a little erratic but they certainly were a lot higher than usual - this also gave a strange colour change to the head area this time red not blue!

Will try two capos when he comes around next (as in when he wakes up!)

Any more good ideas out their -

Pete


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