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BS: According to Falwell

Tedham Porterhouse 14 Sep 01 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,Maybe 14 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 14 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM
Wesley S 14 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 03:57 PM
PeteBoom 14 Sep 01 - 04:00 PM
Rick Fielding 14 Sep 01 - 04:13 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 14 Sep 01 - 04:37 PM
MMario 14 Sep 01 - 04:45 PM
Wesley S 14 Sep 01 - 04:54 PM
katlaughing 14 Sep 01 - 05:03 PM
Armen Tanzerian 14 Sep 01 - 05:03 PM
mousethief 14 Sep 01 - 05:12 PM
Kim C 14 Sep 01 - 05:35 PM
catspaw49 14 Sep 01 - 05:41 PM
Wesley S 14 Sep 01 - 05:43 PM
Noreen 14 Sep 01 - 06:03 PM
Greg F. 14 Sep 01 - 06:15 PM
Bill D 14 Sep 01 - 06:20 PM
DougR 14 Sep 01 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,Frank 14 Sep 01 - 06:38 PM
Bill D 14 Sep 01 - 07:04 PM
DougR 14 Sep 01 - 07:06 PM
wysiwyg 14 Sep 01 - 07:10 PM
Bill D 14 Sep 01 - 07:25 PM
Gareth 14 Sep 01 - 07:39 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 14 Sep 01 - 08:29 PM
wysiwyg 14 Sep 01 - 08:59 PM
Rick Fielding 14 Sep 01 - 09:44 PM
Troll 14 Sep 01 - 10:20 PM
wysiwyg 14 Sep 01 - 11:19 PM
Peg 15 Sep 01 - 11:31 AM
Mary in Kentucky 15 Sep 01 - 01:02 PM
catspaw49 15 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 15 Sep 01 - 01:34 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 15 Sep 01 - 01:44 PM
Skeptic 15 Sep 01 - 01:46 PM
marty D 15 Sep 01 - 01:56 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 15 Sep 01 - 02:04 PM
Justa Picker 15 Sep 01 - 02:12 PM
SharonA 15 Sep 01 - 02:52 PM
wysiwyg 15 Sep 01 - 03:32 PM
Don Firth 15 Sep 01 - 03:40 PM
Haruo 15 Sep 01 - 03:44 PM
Don Firth 15 Sep 01 - 04:00 PM
Skeptic 15 Sep 01 - 04:04 PM
catspaw49 15 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 15 Sep 01 - 07:58 PM
Haruo 15 Sep 01 - 08:55 PM

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Subject: According to Falwell
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:34 PM

This article is from today's Washington Post.

--- God Gave U.S. 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says

By John F. Harris Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, September 14, 2001; Page C03

Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have turned God's anger against America.

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted by Robertson.

"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population."

Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."

Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' "

People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced the comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call for national unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president, called the remarks "absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."

Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to Bush last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential nomination. A White House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "The president does not share those views."

Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making a theological statement, not a legal statement."

"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist," he said. But he said America's "secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture . . . the result is not good."

Robertson was not available for comment, a spokeswoman said. But she released a statement echoing the remarks he made on his show. An ACLU spokeswoman said the group "will not dignify the Falwell-Robertson remarks with a comment."

© 2001 The Washington Post Company


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: GUEST,Maybe
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM

There might be some truth in those statements. On the other hand, I personally think that it happened because we didn't sacrifice a virgin during the Summer Equinox.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

Falwell and Robertson are getting too much attention? This drool from these idiots is already on a thread.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

More of the text and a more complete version of this blurb is already posted on the Arab-American Thread and makes for interesting reading. The reply from the People for the american Way is also included in the other article.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

Complete and total hogwash. Falwell has again laid claim to the title of America's biggest idiot. I feel sad that a person who claims to be man of God could be so misdirected.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:57 PM

SEE PEG'S POST of 11:16 PM on the 13th on THIS THREAD for a better article (more detail).

Spaw


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: PeteBoom
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:00 PM

If that is the Christian God those two worship, it is not the same Christian God I worship. No wonder the Muslims, Budhists and Hindus I work with think I'm an exception to what Christians are. Yegodsandlittlefishes.

(shaking my head and considering whether is beer or whisky tonight...)


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:13 PM

Before getting TOO smug, just remember that these creatures are BOTH welcome in the highest places of Government. I hope that condemnation of their views doesn't come only from liberal Mudcatters.

Rick


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:37 PM

I have had friends who worked for a born-again boss. That must be excruciating torture.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: MMario
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:45 PM

If I am reading the posts above correctly the White House has already deemed the remarks "inappropriate" and not agreeing with the views of the President.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:54 PM

Pete - If I were still a drinking man I'd join you. Please have one of EACH for me.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:03 PM

Gawddamned bastards. THEY are the ones who will destroy this country, with no help from any outside enemies, if they continue to carry on, without loud and massive opposition. As I said in the other thread, they both will richly deserve whatever hell each can imagine for themselves when they die.

Mrzzy, not sure if you mentioned this here or another thread, but I have had a hard time stomaching all of the 'god" stuff flung down from the White House and goverment, etc. this week, too. We should be recognised as America, first and only, NOT as some huge enclave of fumdamentalist Christians like these two.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Armen Tanzerian
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:03 PM

Perverters of religion and traitors to their people (a short list):

Osama bin Laden

Pat Robertson

Ali Khamenei

Jerry Falwell

Saddam Hussein


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:12 PM

Can we take a vote and remove him from the ranks of people called "Christians"? He seems to stand against what is deepest and brightest in the teachings of Christ, which is to say, compassion.

Alex


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:35 PM

Rick, I'm conservative, and neither of them speak for me; they never ever have. And I agree completely with Armen.

What Jerry and Pat may not realize is that there are a LOT of people in this country who do not make a public show of their religion, whatever it may be. I think the US is a religious country, a country of many different religions and spiritualities, with good people in all of them. Just because they are not immediately visible does not mean they don't exist.

I think Jerry and Pat are wrong.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:41 PM

Ya' know, if we end up being hell bent on retaliation, I'd suggest we load these two fuckers up and drop THEM on Bin Laden.

If you read all of the other article and their remarks, was there any group that Falwell didn't blame?....except WASP males?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:43 PM

He never mentioned the Mudcat. So what are we doing wrong ??


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Noreen
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:03 PM

we make God mad. Really? Talk about Man creating God in his own image... !


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:15 PM

Why does ANY ONE, ANY WHERE, ANY TIME report the demented antics these two utter fuckwits?
Want to lose sleep for the next week or two? Realize that there are THOUSANDS of people-perhaps tens of thousands- in this country that actually BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY!
And posters here are worried about "Muslim fanatics"??? Give me a fuckin' break!

Greg


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:20 PM

Pat & Jerry are sanctimonious businessmen....they haven't had a thought in years that was not self-interest drivel. Too bad that stance appeals to so many.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: DougR
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:26 PM

Nope, Rick. I don't agree with 'em.

DougR


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:38 PM

"There are Christians and then there are Christians."........Poisonwood Bible.

Pat and Jerry have arrogated to themselves the only pipeline to God. No humility there!

Their views of religion may have added to the disenfranchisement of poor Arabs and Africans. To blame the actions of Bin Laden and followers on God is pretty perverted. It shows what they really think of God.

Frank


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:04 PM

"God" is a notion Pat & Jerry re-define to suit themselves...The 'Bible' is famous for being re-interpreted to suit just such men..

One of the reasons religion does not appeal to me is the concept of a Supreme Being who 'cares' and can be prayed to allowing random murder & violence ...and idiots like Pat & Jerry to explain what makes "HIM" mad...*shaking my head in frustration*

there may be a Heaven...and there may NOT be..but I simply would not care to go to one run by the rules and the Boss I hear about....(no, those of you who tout a kinder, more compassionate God needn't remind me that not all views of this matter are the same)....sorry for the little rant, but some things push my button pretty hard...


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: DougR
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:06 PM

Okie dokie, Bill D.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:10 PM

(Hi Bill.)

Now that I have read all of this I think I understand some things that were said to me recently that were pretty damned weird and had nothing to do with ME... and I guess what I would wish people would remember is that just because these "Leaders" have the bucks to put their message everywhere does not mean that people with SENSE actually agree with them.. I mean, we might be willing to worship with them but.... Might not, too.

~S~


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:25 PM

*nod*...safer to do your own form of worship out of range


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Gareth
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:39 PM

Didn't Dylan sing something on this ?

"With God on our Side !"

Trouble is all sides invoke him. God/The Almighty/Jehova/Allah.

Ah well thats probably earned me a place on every fundamentalists hit list.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:29 PM

The old Grecian gods were better. There was at least one to suit any situation.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:59 PM

What I would like to be able to do is sit as long as it would take, with someone who is Muslim, and someone who is Jewish, and talk over how "our" God sees all this--ALL of it-- because as I understand it, all three groups sort of agree they are talking to the same Big Guy. I mean, I would ask them, "What does God say to you about all this when you pray?" As individuals, maybe we could sort something out and then go back to our "own" folks and say what we had learned, and ask "our" people to do more of that sort of talking.

~S~


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 09:44 PM

For what it's worth, I think that Rex Humbard and Jimmy Swaggert were damn good singers, and Rex's version of "I'll Fly Away" from the forties (played on his big steel National guitar) was superb. Jimmy sung with great dynamics and had a strong left hand (like his cuz)

Also, Jerry Falwell has great EV. (evangelist hair) Pat Roberstson at his best LOOKS even more sincere than Bill Clinton (and apparently rides pretty good horse)

On the old black and white clips from the fifties I've seen, Oral Roberts was extremely dashing in his white suit, and had some dynamite stage moves. His son, Richard.....well maybe I'll stop now.

There, I've done it! I've said good things about TV evangelists for the first time in my life....and I feel much better.

Sorry for the humour folks, but after three days of rage and sadness, I'm a bit weird tonight.

Rick


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Troll
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:20 PM

How does one get in touch with the Rev.' Falwell and Robertson? I'd like them to fax me a picture of the firey letters whereby GOD toldthem why HE has turned HIS FACE away from America if indeed HE has.
Otherwise, I'm afraid that I shall take their announcment with a large grain of salt.
Or maybe I'll take some Mylanta instead. This kind of self-righteous intolerance makes me want to vomit.

troll


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 11:19 PM

Rick.... words cannot express what you have done to me with that post (which I just read aloud to Hardi)...

Rick, I was supposed to SING with that throat tomorrow night! I think you busted it!

Funniest man I have heard in the last... coupla weeks, anyhow.

~S~


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Peg
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 11:31 AM

At least Billy Graham did a nice job at the memorial service.

I heard a very articulate reasonabe priest (I think he was catholic) with Ted Koppel on TV last night; he called for religious leaders to LEAD; not spread more hatred. He did not name Falwell and Robertson by name but he very clearly denounced them and mentioned this incident as one that caused him much distress...


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:02 PM

But Rick, you forgot the Southern accent. Everybody knows a TV evangelist has to have a fake Southern accent. ;-)


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM

I'm with Greg.......I am so sick of these bastards and all the sanctimonius bullshit. I mean even the billy Graham bit was beyond me as he came close without say we should "smite our enemies." That we should bring this into a Holy War really reduces the whole thing to the bare essence doesn't it.......With God on our side and all of that.......God Bless America being sung on the Capitol steps by Congress........Scares the livin' shit outta' me and I can't find any humor in it that wouldn't offend a lot of people..........Saw Robert Schuller on the tube and he was completely appalling...I could hear the guys in the booth saying, "Aw Geez, get this fucker off quick!"

I have great feelings for those who believe and seek comfort and strength in a supreme being.....but this crap relates only to self serving and arrogant bullshit which sadly, many believe. Once again, I'd suggest for those who follow them, a lesson from Mark Twain and the "War Prayer." I'd link that thread, but I doubt anyone is reading this let alone clicking links.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:34 PM

I have just read the first post on this thread, what a load of shite.I can't believe people believe this crap.These two guys should be locked up they are obviosly insane.just my opinion.john


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:44 PM

Even more depressiing, Falwell is Chancellor of Liberty University. We are training a good crop of bigots. Then there are Bob Jones University (where Ian Paisley attended) and Oral Roberts University and ...


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Skeptic
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:46 PM

All I can say is that after reading the Falwell article I am just plain releived that the problem has been solved, we have identified the enemy and out mission is clear and we can all get back to business as usual.

One of the draw backs about being a committed civil libertarian is that I sometimes have to not only tolerate people like Robertson and Falwell but argue that they have an absoulte right to run their mouths and spout their thinly vieled doctrine of hatred, intolerance and fear. Sad that they debase a religion that is proclaimed to be based on love and universal brotherhood to do so. Sadder still that people believe it.

Its hard work being noble.

Regards


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: marty D
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 01:56 PM

John, I used to live in a town who's greatest claim to fame was it's local TV evangelist. Millions DO believe it. They also believed aids was God's judgement on gays. Yes it's sickening, but these are NOT just fringe beliefs. All the hate mongers mentioned in this thread, even the more subtle ones, have had tacit approval from Government. Not ONE of them lent their considerable influence to the fight for integration in the sixties, and most preached openly against it. Surely that should have been a righteous cause for ANY Christian. Finding old Billy Graham speeches on the net can be chilling.

marty


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 02:04 PM

marty-We also get that crap over here in the UK, a few years ago the Chief Constable Of Manchester (sorry I can't remember his name) held similar views to these two nutters, I think he was fired eventually, either that or he was tod to shut up.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Justa Picker
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 02:12 PM

Can we tie both of them to the first cruise missle launched, and give them a head start since they are obviously both "homesick"? :-)


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: SharonA
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 02:52 PM

Watched a program this morning on ABC where Peter Jennings moderated a discussion/Q&A session with a group of children of various ages, with adults answering some of their questions. One kid asked how to discern which God was "right" in this conflict, and which religion was "right". One Muslim gentleman answered that "Allah" was simply another name for the same God, in a different language (and gave examples of other names in other languages, such as the Spanish "Dios"); he said that Arabic Christians refer to the Christian God as "Allah". An African-American minister said that God is not a respecter of religion.

I thought those were great answers. I shudder to think what would've been said if Jerry or Pat were on that panel. I'm glad to see the network had enough sense not to put them there!

Having been raised by the sort of people who hang onto (and parrot) every word the Falwells and Robertsons of the world spout, and having been forcefed same, I know from firsthand experience that it is impossible – literally impossible – to make them understand how damaging and destructive and unChristlike such statements as those described by the Washington Post really are. These people are as fanatical as terrorists and, in their way, as dangerous.

(Given my upbringing, I'm not sure how I ended up turning my back on it, except that I was raised in the '60s when everything outside my home and my church taught me to at least TRY to keep an open mind and to be respectful and accepting of people who aren't exactly the same as I am.)


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 03:32 PM

This is for people who have never had any contact with a church that is actually getting it right some of the time. Despite a lot of confusion in some areas of my church at the moment (which will take a long time to sort out), I think my denomination has some things that help keep it off the crazy track we have been writing about in this thread-- the craziness of what I call the RRR. Rigid Religious Right. Those skells have had the floor long enough.

Every week in Episcopal churches (and I suspect in all Anglican Communion churches as well), a reading from one of the Gospel books of the Bible is read. I am sure it is also read weekly in Roman Catholic, Russian Orthodox, and Greek Orthodox churches. In our denomination the reading is introduced with, "The Holy Gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ, according to [book cited]." I would bet it's introduced similarly in the other denominations mentioned.

It does NOT say "The Holy Gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ, according to Pat Robertson."

It does NOT say "The Holy Gospel of Jerry Falwell and Anyone Stupid Enough to Follow Him."

What we try to follow, in these denominations, is Jesus the man and Jesus the God. No one else, no matter how loud or apparently sensible. Not our own whims, either.

These denominations take very seriously the idea of what is called "apostolic succession." This means, in simplest terms, that certain people were chosen during Jesus' life to continue His work, and these people then chose others... People who had known the living Jesus and experienced His presence in their lives then introduced to others-- generation by generation, in a direct line of personal experience-- the Risen Christ. I think this is one reason why so many people in these denominations have been able to hold to Jesus' teachings at least well enough to try to LIVE them. Where I live I am surrounded by good models of this at every turn. (Not saying I AM one.)

If you want to see a real Christian living in authentic relationship with someone they have chosen to follow as Lord, look to whether they are trying to follow what is laid out in those Gospels. However imperfectly they are succeeding in doing that, this is what you would expect to see them TRYING to do. This makes some of the RRR leaders seem pretty... counterfeit.

That Gospel reading I started out discussing also does NOT say, "The Gospel of YOUR Lord, Jesus Christ." In our Baptismal Convenant we promise to "respect the dignity of every human being." This includes the dignity of deciding for oneself what one believes, and what beliefs one chooses to live out on a daily basis.

Thus I find it as hard to condemn RRR leaders I think are going the wrong way as I find it difficult to evangelize-at (try to "save") non-Christians. Both the RRR leaders I think are in error, and the non-Christians who do not see what I see, have the right in our free society to say and practice as they believe.

That does not relieve any of us of the obligation I think we have to use our minds, hearts, and spirits to discern what is true and right from what is false and wrong. It's easy to use Hitler to point up someone who had enormous evil influence in his time and for long thereafter. But don't we have to hold individuals, who follow blindly, just as accountable? Yes, I know, they can be conditioned into a narrow view.... but when we become adults, aren't we still capable of knowing what our hearts tell us?

What I would like to see is not the muzzling of wrong and bad things-- for who could agree on which these are?-- but the strengthening of the ability to discern at the individual level what we face. I'd like to see us each look to our own narrow vision and blind spots, and stop blaming it on the narrowness and blindness of others.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 03:40 PM

Well . . . I think a couple of naughty boys just farted in church. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Haruo
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 03:44 PM

But still, Susan, you must admit that there is much in the gospels that it is easier to turn to evil ends than to good. "I came not to bring peace but a sword." The apparent racism of Jesus' initial comment to the Syro-Phoenician woman. John's (especially) usage vis-à-vis the term "the Jews". Insisting on the breakup of family members and turning close relatives against each other. As a member of a free church with little lectionary experience, I am not sure how you liturgical, apostolic-succession types handle these things in practice, but I know that in the hands of those who want inflammatory texts to dive off of these (and many others, including even more numerous ones in the Hebrew scriptures) are readily available and quite handy. I don't think there is a branch of Christianity that doesn't bear some guilt, and I don't think there's a magic insurance policy in scripture or polity or doctrine that will guard against it.

Liland


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:00 PM

Unfortunately, Liland, there is much to what you say. Those who are hell-bent on viciousness and mayhem can usually find justification for their malevolence if they search long enough through the scriptures of whatever religion they belong to.

Just a couple of thoughts after listening to author E. L. Doctorow's comments on Scott Simon's program on NPR this morning:--

The whole idea of an Islamic holy warrior going directly to Paradise if killed in a jihad, is a sop to get the gullible to do the bidding of their leader. If those who promulgate this idea really believe what they say, then why don't they wrap themselves in explosives, go stand in the middle of a crowd of "infidels," and blow themselves up? Why suffer the slings and arrows of this dismal existence when you can transport yourself instantly to Paradise and spend the rest of eternity drinking nectar and cavorting with houris in the Garden of Allah?

"Fundamentalism?" It isn't fundamental at all, in that it bears no relationship to the fundamental core beliefs and principles of the religion in question.

Two more examples of this kind of "fundamentalism" are those escapees from a Saturday Night Live skit, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. According to these two halo-bedecked bozos, since America is packed from border to border and ocean to ocean with gays, lesbians, abortionists, people who think it isn't right to force Jewish children to pray Christian prayers in school, Godless organizations like the ACLU and People for the American Way, etc., etc., ad nauseum, God intends to punish America for its sinful and secular ways and for anything else that disagrees their cockamamie interpretation of "the Word of God." America got what it deserves and there is more to come. The terrorists, willing to murder thousands of men, women, and children (a percentage of whom might very well have been fundamentalist Christians themselves), were -- what? -- angels? Messengers of the Lord?

There is ample reason for the weeping of Jesus.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Skeptic
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:04 PM

Susan,

I find little of Christianity in the Robertsons or Falwells of the world. The type of Christianity you talk about (with bumps along the way) is much closer to the one I am familiar with.

Falwell and his ilk (love that word) are responsible for their actions. Those who follow are responsible for theirs. I attribute (perhaps incorrectly) little real sincerity to Falwell or Robertson. His followers are most probably sincere.

I was saddened and troubled that other religious leaders haven't said anything. Silence, as has been noted before, can be as eloquent and damning as any speech.

Though not practicing, I was raised as a Presbyterian and was taught that you didn?t ignore Evil. (which I characterize this as) It was to be challenged wherever found. Several prominent Muslim clerics condemned the interpretation of the Quoran that was used to justify the attack Tuesday. Is it unreasonable to expect any less of Christians when it is used to foster hate and divisiveness?

I'm not trying (or trying not too?) get into Christian bashing. I think that letting this go as a theological difference might be safe and comforting but isn't acceptable intellectually, emotionally and maybe theologically.

Regards

John


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM

"Falwell and his ilk (love that word) are responsible for their actions. Those who follow are responsible for theirs. I attribute (perhaps incorrectly) little real sincerity to Falwell or Robertson. His followers are most probably sincere." (Italics and Bold-mine)

Couldn't help but want to substitute Bin Laden for Falwell and Robertson.......Not really too different is it?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 07:58 PM

All images of God are Man's.


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Subject: RE: According to Falwell
From: Haruo
Date: 15 Sep 01 - 08:55 PM

And God is reportedly less than thrilled with the quality of the photographs. Indeed, said "Stop it or I'll sue."

Liland
(reference is to the Ten Commandments' anti-engraving clause)


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