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AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later

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catspaw49 18 Sep 01 - 04:54 PM
GUEST,just a nobody 18 Sep 01 - 04:59 PM
catspaw49 18 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM
Kim C 18 Sep 01 - 05:41 PM
catspaw49 18 Sep 01 - 06:08 PM
sophocleese 18 Sep 01 - 06:12 PM
Amos 18 Sep 01 - 07:35 PM
CarolC 18 Sep 01 - 07:57 PM
Amos 19 Sep 01 - 12:00 AM
Peter Kasin 19 Sep 01 - 12:12 AM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 19 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM
DougR 19 Sep 01 - 12:26 AM
sophocleese 19 Sep 01 - 08:02 AM
Mrrzy 19 Sep 01 - 09:12 AM
sophocleese 19 Sep 01 - 09:23 AM
CarolC 19 Sep 01 - 09:36 AM
catspaw49 19 Sep 01 - 09:40 AM
sophocleese 19 Sep 01 - 09:49 AM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 10:09 AM
Troll 19 Sep 01 - 10:17 AM
Mrrzy 19 Sep 01 - 10:38 AM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 10:54 AM
katlaughing 19 Sep 01 - 10:56 AM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 11:57 AM
katlaughing 19 Sep 01 - 12:03 PM
Steve in Idaho 19 Sep 01 - 12:05 PM
SINSULL 19 Sep 01 - 12:20 PM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 12:27 PM
Troll 19 Sep 01 - 12:29 PM
sophocleese 19 Sep 01 - 12:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Sep 01 - 12:44 PM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 12:46 PM
sophocleese 19 Sep 01 - 12:49 PM
Lox 19 Sep 01 - 12:56 PM
Mrrzy 19 Sep 01 - 01:05 PM
Clifton53 19 Sep 01 - 01:12 PM
CarolC 19 Sep 01 - 01:20 PM
Greg F. 19 Sep 01 - 02:29 PM
catspaw49 19 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 02:44 PM
catspaw49 19 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM
The Shambles 19 Sep 01 - 02:53 PM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 02:54 PM
CarolC 19 Sep 01 - 03:03 PM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 03:39 PM
Troll 19 Sep 01 - 03:41 PM
katlaughing 19 Sep 01 - 03:49 PM
Firecat 19 Sep 01 - 04:57 PM
Deda 19 Sep 01 - 05:14 PM
CarolC 19 Sep 01 - 05:24 PM
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Subject: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 04:54 PM

Hard to believe isn't it? I looked back at my very first post to this series and realized that I posted it just as I watched the second plane hit.......Can't say we're not topical here. It's been a long week and we've seen the best of ourselves and others and also the worst.

Thanks to all of you who have made my week better for your astute and well thought postings. We have not always agreed, but I have gained a heightened respect if that were possible for the fine folks who have been my neighbors here at the 'Cat over the years.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: GUEST,just a nobody
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 04:59 PM

I'm glad there are others that agree that we can disagree. I think mudcat is a great place to see different points of view on such an emotional topic. While irritating at times, it does allow me to stop and look at different sides of what is going on. No one is forced to agree with each other, and who knows, maybe people will start to understand the opposing point of view.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM

BTW.....Thread # 8 is here.....just to keep things linked.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 05:41 PM

I have had so many thoughts running rampant through my head, and so many maverick emotions, it has been nice to have a place to get them out. There are a few more in there, too. :-)


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 06:08 PM

Could not agree more!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: sophocleese
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 06:12 PM

This is a petition that was started on Sept 14. Some mudcatters might want to sign it.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Amos
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 07:35 PM

Let the powers of your heart speed your healing, and move with the flow of time onto better things.

It is for the living to roll up their sleeves and git down to it.

A


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 07:57 PM

DougR, in answer to your question...

I guess it would depend on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are trying to make the US and the world safer from terrorism, my opinion is that we need the help of the Arab world and the Muslim world. So if they find Bin Laden innocent, but at the same time, help us to root out and eliminate the massive webs of terrorist organizations, and also help us to render people like Bin Laden unable to cause harm, then I would endorse their actions.

If what we are trying to accomplish is to try to maintain this illusion we as a nation seem to have, that we are superior to the rest of the world, that we are invincible, that we don't need anyone's help, and that we will, by golly, show those bastards that they can't mess with us, then I'm afraid nothing will help us. Whether Bin Laden is brought to justice or not.

So, I am in favor of whatever will help promote the goal of making the world safer for all of us. Whether that includes the elimination of Bin Laden, or not.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Amos
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:00 AM

This is a war -- if you can even call it that -- that involves identifying people who ar ehidden, in groups that are not a nation, have no capitals, move in shadows, who can ruin the morale of a giant nation with a boxcutter, for Christ's sake, and who communicate by word of mouth.

To even identify them, let alone act effectively against them, requires an extent of intelligence we haven't begun to master. Intelligence comes from over-fly photos and sensors (ELECINT), or it comes from human beings (HUMINT). And there is no way we will ever penetrate this distributed networks of well- but loosely-organized criminals with sat recces and electronic sensors.

We need, therefore to make a LOT of friends in the world of Islam, very fast, and we need to deploy them in every corner of the Middle East gathering opinions, bits and pieces, learning who is friends with whom, who buys what where, whose son has just been tapped to join the Network, who suddenly seems to be spending oney like a drunken sailor, whether in the market places of Kabul or those of Tel Aviv.

This kind of networking has not been deployed by Western operatives since the heyday of Wild Bill Donovan, or the French Resistance. But this is the only way to permeate a network of people who are not identifiable by their big capitols or their five-star command HQs or their tanks and battalions moving across the plains for any bird to see.

Once their trails are found we can take action against them -- cutting off funds, spiking their cellphones or even sending small squads in to bring a few of them at a time off for summary justice somewhere.

I don't see any other effective path, and it is a long drawn out path. Breaking out the B52s and the smart missiles isn't going to hit them in an effective point because, unless I am seriously misinformed (which has been known to happen) they have no crossroads to bomb.

They are organized in cells, like the hidden Reds of Joe McCarthy's nightmares. But unlike the CP's cells these guys are capable of tight, fast coordination. They are similar in many ways to the cells of the early Bolsheviks, except accelerated by technology.

It CERTAINLY will never help to alienate and terrify any Muslim you see in the U.S. as a "probable sympathizer"/

A


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:12 AM

Yesterday there was a very moving interfaith memorial service for the victims, held in San Francisco's Bill Graham Civic Auditorium, the city's version of Madison Square Garden. Thousands attended. The 2-hour service began with a procession into the auditorium of over 100 clergy from many religions. A Muslim cleric, followed by a cantor, sung opening prayers. The pols were represented by California's governor, two Senators, SF's congressional rep, Mayor, and former Secretary of State George Schultz, who lives in SF. Religious leaders - an Archbishop, a Rabbi, Muslim cleric, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Bahaii and Baptist ministers, a Priest from Hawaii, a Buddhist, and a Sikh all spoke and gave prayers. The partner of Mark Bingham, one of the three who alledgedly rushed the hijackers in the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, gave a personal portrait of him, and was given an award on behalf of Mark Bingham. The message and mood was one of national purpose, patriotism, solidarity with American Arabs who are experiencing harassment, and a call for national unity in the struggle against terrorism. It was a mighty show of unity. After the closing benediction, Lou Rawls sang "God Bless America" as everyone filed out. Everyone was then welcome to take roses that were handed out, and bring them to a memorial for the police and firefighters who died, and for all the victims, that was set up in the civic center plaza. The only blight was a very inapropriate speech by a minister who took the occasion to make a political speech about America's foibles, decrying our walkout of the U.N. conference on racism, among others. No matter who agrees with him or not, it was pretty tasteless for him to go off like that in the midst of a memorial. He was rebuked by Rep. Nancy Pelosi, who spoke soon after him. All told, it was San Francisco at its finest - unified, compassionate, patriotic, and firm. Shame it takes a national tragedy to bring that out, but it's good to know people can respond in that way, and that those feelings are there.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM

Spaw,

In you opening post of this chapter of the series, you said what I tried to say in the "Thank you all" thread I started last night, far more eloquently than I ever could.
Can you imagine what basket cases we'd be if we couldn't come here. Not that it's been a bed of roses but it would be that much worse. You're right we are neighbors in this little corner of cyberspace, and there aren't many neighborhoods in 3D that can claim to have this much compassion, caring and understanding. I don't ever want to take this place for granted, again.

Thanks again, 'Cats and God (of your choosing) bless you all.

Rich


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: DougR
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:26 AM

Thanks, Carol. I'm pleased to get your answer to the question.

DougR


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 08:02 AM

HAs anycody checked teh link that I provided earlier in this thread? Just wondering....


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:12 AM

Yes, it's fine, Soph, and a good link to have.

My kids found something lying by the side of the road last night, that I found movingly metaphorical. Thought I'd share this...

A single, very long-stemmed, very thorny, rose. The rose was wilting, the as-yet unfaded crimson petals no longer turgid, the whole flower drooping from the stem. The leaves were dry and brittle, but none had fallen. The stem was still pliable, not yet hardened and dry. The thorns were, well, thorny. And at the bottom was still the little plastic thing that Americans put their roses in so they'll not have to feel the thorns. I found every single aspect of it reflected this last week. Draw your own metaphors...


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:23 AM

Thanks Mrrzy for letting me know.

I started a thread on the petition yesterday labelled "No More Violence" (a bit bland perhaps but accurate). I also included a very good poem by Auden. As yet only one person has responded to that thread. However a thread titled "Sycophantic Americans" which is clearly a troll has had far more responses, even though all it does is repeat a Bob Dylan song which has already been posted a few times in the last week. Terrorists, like trolls and flamers, like attention, and apparently they get it even from those who complain about them. There is something comforting about doing the predictable isn't there?

By chance, CBC radio is at this moment reading that poem over the airwaves.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:36 AM

I think some of us need to plead jelly-brains. It's been a long week, and we still need to deal with this "war" business. I know I have responded to several petitions/send an e-mail to whomever links. But I'm having a hard time trying to keep track of which one's I've responded to. I guess it's the fatigue factor.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:40 AM

I have only read this and two other threads this AM......and Soph, I did click the link and I'll go back and find your other thread too. Good petition.

I get aggravated too at times when I can clearly see that some link that often answers a question thoroughly, has been obviously ignored.

Okay....just found the simpleass other thread you mention and again, no matter how right or wrong the thought, that is a troll!!! Why do we respond to that crap all the time? I know there may be some difference of opinion on what a troll is, but anything with that nasty a title fits the bill.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 09:49 AM

Thanks Carol C. and Spaw. I've in the grip of a nasty headcold which makes me a little oversensitive and touchy.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:09 AM

I plead jelly-brains! Me! Me! Although they are starting to be a little more firm today. Reports of soldiers being on alert still make me nervous.

There was a story in the news several weeks ago about a small village in Turkey whose ancient plumbing system finally broke down. The women got this fixed by refusing to hanky-panky until the plumbing system was replaced. And of course... it worked. No surprise there.

I wonder what would happen if we were to somehow convince the women of Afghanistan to withhold conjugal relations until bin Laden is extradited... just a thought...


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Troll
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:17 AM

Kim, they would probably be stoned to death. Turkey is a lot more liberal than the Taliban Govt.

troll


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:38 AM

Maybe if Laura Bush did?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:54 AM

Oh yeah... stoning... I hadn't thought of that...

Well, let's just send in the PMS Brigade then!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 10:56 AM

I clicked on the link and signed. It is a well-written petition. Someone had sent me the Auden poem, I didn't see your thread with it, but I was on overloaded yesterday and didn't see many threads at all. It is an incredibly beautiful and appropriate poem.

I am sending the petition link out to others by email.

My daughters found out this morning that someone they went to school with is missing from the WTC. It touches everywhere. Now, I am wondering about another friend of theirs who works in NYC. I don't think she had reason to be near there, but I'll need to make a phone call or two before I feel assured.

kat


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:57 AM

I knew one person in NYC. I was able to get e-mail through to her early on, and she is fine. Mister's boss was on a trip to NYC, staying at the Marriott just a few blocks away. Obviously their return was delayed by several days, so they just stayed in the room and ordered room service. They were afraid to leave the hotel.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:03 PM

The poster at the link sophocleese provided, is beautiful and simple. It is easily printable. To find it, scroll down tot he paragraphs near the bottom on the right. I have printed one out and will put it in my car window.

Just found out my youngest daughter's best friend from school in Mystic, CT, was only a few blocks away and was unable to get home for several days, from her workplace. The Geo. washington brige was closed, of course, then she tried the train and there was a bomb threat, the next day she tried the bus, again a bomb scare. So, it took her many frazzled days to reach home and feel safe. We are very thankful that she is safe, she's a very special young woman.

kat


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:05 PM

sophocleese - will sign your petition and forward to my friends and family that are supportive of this. Thanks for providing the link - Peace - Steve


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:20 PM

Aristophanes' Lysistrata - the women of Sparta and Greece refused to have sexual relations with their men until peace talks were begun. Even the prostitutes took part. I wonder...


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:27 PM

In some parts of the world, sex is the only power a woman has.

Get this.... it was in the local news last night that a Sgt in the National Guard was arrested for making 5 bomb threats, on the Armory in Nashville and several other places. A person with some responsibility - a person we would rely on to protect us. What the hell do you reckon he was thinking?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Troll
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:29 PM

If you are suggesting that for this country, go for it. If you are suggesting that for Afghanistan, forget it.

troll


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:29 PM

Actually I wonder how many men take out their frustrations of NOT having sex by indulging in fantasy military actions. Perhaps we should be giving them all Viagra and encouraging them to relax....

On a more serious note here is a link to an article which gives a history of CIA involvement with Pakistan and Afghanistan. It might help clear up some misunderstandings about the use of the word 'jihad'.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:44 PM

I've decided from now on that anytime I open a thread and it's started by GUEST anything - unless it's someone I whose name I recognise and respect - I'm going to close it right down. (Apart form Lyr Req of course).

Up till now I've tended to read on and maybe join in if it gets interesting, which it sometimes can. But life's too short, and it's advisable to bet on the percentages sometimes.

And of course I've clicked on sophocleese's link up the top of this thread and I was pleased to see it.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:46 PM

Naw, it wasn't a serious suggestion. But the idea that women in Turkey could pull this off was sorta humorous.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:49 PM

Yeah Kim C. I think the problem is that we need more men who take their frustrations out on plumbing rather than killing.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Lox
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:56 PM

Hiya folks,

Links to explore:-

www.michaelmoore.com

www.alternativetentacles.com

On the second site, check out the news and links sections

seeya

lox


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 01:05 PM

Lysistrata, thanks, I knew it was in my brain somewhere.

Is everybody as incredibly tired as I am today? I think I'm coming down off a week-long adrenaline rush...


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Clifton53
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 01:12 PM

I've heard there is a saying among Moslem men that there are only two places for a wife, in the house, or in the ground. Brutal

Clifton


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 01:20 PM

Clifton53, did you know that in Oklahoma, possibly still, but certainly not too long ago, there was a law on the books stating that the stick a man could beat his wife with couldn't be any thicker in diameter than his wedding ring?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 02:29 PM

Right, Clifton: like the saying current among U.S. "christian" men saying that women should be kept barefoot and pregnant?

Were you born an ass or did it come over you slowly, by degrees?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM

Well, if it was made of titanium it might be okay......

Moving on...........

Received an e-mail from Arlonet with Arlo's message after the disaster:

My Friends,

Yesterday was a day we will never forget. The images of the attack upon ordinary people will remain with us all of our lives. In her daily prayers this morning, Ma said, "THERE MUST BE PEACE ON EARTH OR THERE WILL BE NO EARTH". She is right.

Once again we are reminded that our journeys through life are filled with opportunities to do good or evil. We must learn to know the difference between God's will and man's choice. Our choice must be to love and respect each other no matter that our traditions and cultures are varied and different.

Our enemy is clearly before us. Hate, religious intolerance, fear and anger are our foes. We are a people of love, welcoming our global family with open arms. We know no fear - Our hearts are already filled. Just remember who we are and we will be all right.

Today, I will remain in prayer with my family and friends from a dozen different religious traditions - We are all in tears.

Keep The Faith
Arlo Guthrie

Just another folky's thoughts.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 02:44 PM

I knew there was a good reason I liked Arlo.

But what about the 8x10 glossy photographs with the circles and arrows? ;-)


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM

Okay Fiddlebum......CLICK HERE

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 02:53 PM

Such Is The God

It is my belief that we may have created God, in our image and not the other way round. ?

You will find, in the finest of gardens
Some small place, where the wild flowers grow
And you can't train children, like a gardener trains roses
You can't thin out, you just reap what you sow

Inquisitions and witch-hunts and final solutions
Moral pollution, that defeats it's own ends
The obvious answer, is it always the best one?
It's wise to question, both your foe and your friend

The rose and the thorn, fine fruit and the poison
The soldier's warning? Just a young man, afraid
Through the eyes of the uncertain and the cries of believers
Such is the god in whose image we're made
The body of man, the heart of a woman
Songs of bright morning and the cool evening shade
Through the eyes of the poets and lies of deceivers
Such is the God, in whose image we're made

Do you join in the song, that everyone's singing?
Do you follow the path, just because it's well-trod?
Is faith just a way, to avoid hard decisions?
For religions are man-made, not made by God

The rose and the thorn, fine fruit and the poison
The soldier's warning? Just a young man, afraid
Through the eyes of the uncertain and the cries of believers
Such is the god in whose image we're made
The body of man, the heart of a woman
Songs of bright morning and the cool evening shade
Through the eyes of the poets and lies of deceivers
Such is the God, in whose image we're made

Roger Gall 1996


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 02:54 PM

Heehee! The Group W Bench! Thanks Spaw, I have bookmarked it to go back and play a little more later.

Maybe if we all go over and subject the Taliban to a rousing rendition of the full version of Alice's Restaurant........ hmmm..............


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:03 PM

Ok. Word on the tube is that "Infinite Justice" is the name under which they want to market this military effort. They don't have everyone on board for this name yet, so it's not official.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:39 PM

How about Operation Pale Rider?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Troll
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:41 PM

Greg, I did not get the impression from Cliftons post that he that sort of treatment of women. In fact quite the opposite, considering that the last word in the post was "Brutal".
I felt that he was commenting on the status of women in the Isalmic world and, apart from the upper-class Muslims, he is probably right. My impression was that he didn't approve.
Maybe you missed that last word?
"Brutal."

troll


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:49 PM

Shambles, that is absolutely beautiful. Thank you for posting it.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Firecat
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 04:57 PM

Actually, all the threads about that day are gonna help with my A Level German homework. 1000 word essay on the events of last week and what myself and others think of it.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: Deda
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 05:14 PM

Here's a pretty riveting eye-witness account of escaping from the WTC:

________________________________________________________

THE PRICE WE PAY:

My name is Adam Mayblum. I am alive today. I am committing this to "paper" so I never forget. SO WE NEVER FORGET. I am sure that this is one of thousands of stories that will emerge over the next several days and weeks.

I arrived as usual a little before 8am. My office was on the 87th floor of 1 World Trade Center, AKA: Tower 1, AKA: the North Tower. Most of my associates were in by 8:30m. We were standing around, joking around, eating breakfast, checking emails, and getting set for the day when the first plane hit just a few stories above us. I must stress that we did not know that it was a plane. The building lurched violently and shook as if it were

an earthquake. People screamed. I watched out my window as the building seemed to move 10 to 20 feet in each direction. It rumbled and shook long enough for me to get my wits about myself and grab a co-worker and seek shelter under a doorway. Light fixtures and parts of the ceiling collapsed.

The kitchen was destroyed. We were certain that it was a bomb. We looked out the windows. Reams of paper were flying everywhere, like a ticker tape parade. I looked down at the street. I could see people in Battery Park City looking up. Smoke started billowing in through the holes in the ceiling.

I believe that there were 13 of us. We did not panic. I can only assume that we thought that the worst was over. The building was standing and we were shaken but alive. We checked the halls. The smoke was thick and white and did not smell like I imagined smoke should smell. Not like your BBQ or your fireplace or even a bonfire. The phones were working. My wife had taken our 9 month old for his check up. I called my nanny at home and told her to page my wife, tell her that a bomb went off, I was ok, and on my way out. I grabbed my laptop. Took off my tee shirt and ripped it into 3 pieces. Soaked it in water. Gave 2 pieces to my friends. Tied my piece around my face to act as an air filter. And we all started moving to the staircase. One of my dearest friends said that he was staying until the police or firemen came to get him. In the halls there were tiny fires and sparks. The ceiling had collapsed in the men's bathroom. It was gone along with anyone who may have been in there.

We did not go in to look. We missed the staircase on the first run and had to double back. Once in the staircase we picked up fire extinguishers just incase. On the 85th floor a brave associate of mine and I headed back up to our office to drag out my partner who stayed behind. There was no air, just white smoke. We made the rounds through the office calling his name. No response. He must have succumbed to the smoke. We left defeated in our efforts and made our way back to the stairwell. We proceeded to the 78th floor where we had to change over to a different stairwell. 78 is the main junction to switch to the upper floors. I expected to see more people.

There were some 50 to 60 more. Not enough. Wires and fires all over the place. Smoke too. A brave man was fighting a fire with the emergency hose. I stopped with two friends to make sure that everyone from our office was accounted for. We ushered them and confused people into thestairwell.

In retrospect, I recall seeing Harry, my head trader, doing the same several yards behind me. I am only 35. I have known him for over 14 years. I headed into the stairwell with 2 friends. We were moving down very orderly in Stair Case A. very slowly.

No panic. At least not overt panic. My legs could not stop shaking. My heart was pounding. Some nervous jokes and laughter. I made a crack about ruining a brand new pair of Merrells. Even still, they were right, my feet felt great. We all laughed. We checked our cell phones. Surprisingly, there was a very good signal, but the Sprint network was jammed. I heard that the Blackberry 2 way email devices worked perfectly. On the phones, 1 out of 20 dial attempts got through. I knew I could not reach my wife so I called my parents. I told them what happened and that we were all okay and on the way down. Soon, my sister in law reached me. I told her we were fine and moving down. I believe that was about the 65th floor. We were bored and nervous.

I called my friend Angel in San Francisco. I knew he would be watching. He was amazed I was on the phone. He told me to get out that there was another plane on its way. I did not know what he was talking about. By now the second plane had struck Tower 2. We were so deep into the middle of our building that we did not hear or feel anything. We had no idea what was really going on. We kept making way for wounded to go down ahead of us. Not many of them, just a few. No one seemed seriously wounded. Just some cuts and scrapes. Everyone cooperated. Everyone was a hero yesterday. No questions asked. I had co-workers in another office on the 77th floor. I tried dozens of times to get them on their cell phones or office lines. It was futile. Later I found that they were alive. One of the many miracles on a day of tragedy.

On the 53rd floor we came across a very heavyset man sitting on the stairs. I asked if he needed help or was he just resting. He needed help. I knew I would have trouble carrying him because I have a very bad back. But my friend and I offered anyway. We told him he could lean on us. He hesitated, I don't know why. I said do you want to come or do you want us to send help for you.

He chose for help. I told him he was on the 53rd floor in Stairwell A and that's what I would tell the rescue workers. He said okay and we left.

On the 44th floor my phone rang again. It was my parents. They were hysterical. I said relax, I'm fine. My father said get out, there is third plane coming. I still did not understand. I was kind of angry. What did my parents think? Like I needed some other reason to get going? I couldn't move the thousand people in front of me any faster. I know they love me, but no one inside understood what the situation really was. My parents did. Starting around this floor the firemen, policemen, WTC K-9 units without the dogs, anyone with a badge, started coming up as we were heading down. I stopped a lot of them and told them about the man on 53 and my friend on 87. I later felt terrible about this. They headed up to find those people and met death instead.

On the 33rd floor I spoke with a man who somehow knew most of the details. He said 2 small planes hit the building. Now we all started talking about which terrorist group it was. Was it an internal organization or an external one? The overwhelming but uninformed opinion was Islamic Fanatics. Regardless, we now knew that it was not a bomb and there were potentially more planes coming. We understood.

On the 3r floor the lights went out and we heard & felt this rumbling coming towards us from above. I thought the staircase was collapsing upon itself. It was 10am now and that was Tower 2 collapsing next door. We did not know that. Someone had a flashlight. We passed it forward and left the stairwell and headed down a dark and cramped corridor to an exit. We could not see at all.

I recommended that everyone place a hand on the shoulder of the person in front of them and call out if they hit an obstacle so others would know to avoid it. They did. It worked perfectly.

We reached another stairwell and saw a female officer emerge soaking wet and covered in soot. She said we could not go that way it was blocked. Go up to 4 and use the other exit. Just as we started up she said it was ok to go down instead. There was water everywhere. I called out for hands on shoulders again and she said that was a great idea. She stayed behind instructing people to do that. I do not know what happened to her.

We emerged into an enormous room. It was light but filled with smoke. I commented to a friend that it must be under construction. Then we realized where we were. It was the second floor. The one that overlooks the lobby. We were ushered out into the courtyard, the one where the fountain used to be. My first thought was of a TV movie I saw once about nuclear war and fallout.

I could not understand where all of the debris came from. There was at least five inches of this gray pasty dusty drywall soot on the ground as well as a thickness of it in the air. Twisted steel and wires. I heard there were bodies and body parts as well, but I did not look.

It was bad enough. We hid under the remaining overhangs and moved out to the street. We were told to keep walking towards Houston Street. The odd thing is that there were very few rescue workers around. Less than five. They all must have been trapped under the debris when Tower 2 fell. We did not know that and could not understand where all of that debris came from.

It was just my friend Kern and I now. We were hugging but sad. We felt certain that most of our friends ahead of us died and we knew no one behind us. We came upon a post office several blocks away. We stopped and looked up. Our building, exactly where our office is (was), was engulfed in flame and smoke. A postal worker said that Tower 2 had fallen down. I looked again and sure enough it was gone. My heart was racing.

We kept trying to call our families. I could not get in touch with my wife. Finally I got through to my parents. Relieved is not the word to explain their feelings. They got through to my wife, thank God, and let her know I was alive. We sat down. A girl on a bike offered us some water. Just as she took the cap off her bottle we heard a rumble. We looked up and our building, Tower 1 collapsed. I did not note the time but I am told it was 10:30am. We had been out less than 15 minutes.

We were mourning our lost friends, particularly the one who stayed in the office as we were now sure that he had perished. We started walking towards Union Square. I was going to Beth Israel Medical Center to be looked at. We stopped to hear the President speaking on the radio.

My phone rang. It was my wife. I think I fell to my knees crying when I heard her voice. Then she told me the most incredible thing. My partner who had stayed behind called her. He was alive and well. I guess we just lost him in the commotion. We started jumping and hugging and shouting. I told my wife that my brother had arranged for a hotel in midtown. He can be very resourceful in that way. I told her I would call her from there. My brother and I managed to get a gypsy cab to take us home to Westchester instead. I cried on my son and held my wife until I fell asleep.

As it turns out my partner, the one who I thought had stayed behind, was behind us with Harry Ramos, our head trader. This is now second hand information. They came upon Victor, the heavyset man on the 53rd floor. They helped him. He could barely move. My partner bravely/stupidly tested the elevator on the 52nd floor. He rode it down to the sky lobby on 44.

The doors opened, it was fine. He rode it back up and got Harry and Victor. I don't yet know if anyone else joined them. Once on 44 they made their way back into the stairwell. Someplace around the 39th to 36th floors they felt the same rumble I felt on the 3rd floor. It was 10am and Tower 2 was coming down. They had about 30 minutes to get out. Victor said he could no longer move. They offered to have him lean on them. He said he couldn't do it. My partner hollered at him to sit on his butt and schooch down the steps. He said he was not capable of doing it. Harry told my partner to go ahead of them. Harry had once had a heart attack and was worried about this mans heart. It was his nature to be this way. He was/is one of the kindest people I know. He would not leave a man behind.

My partner went ahead and made it out. He said he was out maybe 10 minutes before the building came down. This means that Harry had maybe 25 minutes to move Victor 36 floors. I guess they moved 1 floor every 1.5 minutes. Just a guess. This means Harry was around the 20th floor when the building collapsed. As of now 12 of 13 people are accounted for. As of 6pm yesterday his wife had not heard from him. I fear that Harry is lost. However, a short while ago I heard that he may be alive. Apparently there is a web site with survivor names on it and his name appears there. Unfortunately, Ramos is not an uncommon name in New York. Pray for him and all those like him.

With regards to the firemen heading upstairs, I realize that they were going up anyway. But, it hurts to know that I may have made them move quicker to find my friend. Rationally, I know this is not true and that I am not the responsible one. The responsible ones are in hiding somewhere on this planet and damn them for making me feel like this. But they should know that they failed in terrorizing us. We were calm. Those men and women that went up were heroes in the face of it all. They must have known what was going on and they did their jobs anyway. Ordinary people were heroes too.

Today the images that people around the world equate with power and democracy are gone but "America" is not an image, it is a concept. That concept is only strengthened by our pulling together as a team. If you want to kill us, leave us alone because we will do it by ourselves. If you want to make us stronger, attack and we unite. This is the ultimate failure of terrorism against The United States and the ultimate price we pay to be free, to decide where we want to work, what we want to eat, and when & where we want to go on vacation.

The very moment the first plane was hijacked, democracy won.

-- Gaby --


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 05:24 PM

troll, I think the point that both Greg and I were making is that brutality towards women is a pretty universal experience throughout the world, and is not unique to the Muslim world.


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