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BS: Trolling & flaming

Jelly bean 19 Sep 01 - 06:27 AM
GUEST 19 Sep 01 - 07:24 AM
Greyeyes 19 Sep 01 - 07:31 AM
sophocleese 19 Sep 01 - 07:51 AM
Kim C 19 Sep 01 - 12:05 PM
Jeri 19 Sep 01 - 12:38 PM
Jack the Sailor 19 Sep 01 - 04:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Sep 01 - 05:23 PM
X-Ed 20 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Sep 01 - 07:47 PM
Jelly bean 30 Sep 01 - 05:22 AM
Bill D 30 Sep 01 - 09:45 AM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 09:49 AM
wildlone 30 Sep 01 - 11:38 AM
For Fuck's Sake... 30 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM
GUEST, A Member, being Anon. 30 Sep 01 - 12:26 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 12:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 01 - 12:43 PM
wildlone 30 Sep 01 - 12:55 PM
kendall 30 Sep 01 - 02:03 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 02:06 PM
GUEST, A Member, being Anon. 30 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,Rasputin II 30 Sep 01 - 05:38 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 06:08 PM
Donuel 30 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 01 - 06:23 PM
Jelly bean 02 Oct 01 - 04:20 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 02 Oct 01 - 09:38 PM
Joe Offer 02 Oct 01 - 09:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Oct 01 - 09:50 PM
Paul from Hull 02 Oct 01 - 09:54 PM
Bert 02 Oct 01 - 10:15 PM
Joe Offer 02 Oct 01 - 10:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Oct 01 - 04:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 01 - 07:30 AM

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Subject: Trolling & flaming
From: Jelly bean
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 06:27 AM

Trolling and flaming was mentioned in a thread I cannot remember the name of. I asked someone to define these terms for me in relation to mudcat useage. It seems to me that controversial statements are labelled trolling or flaming. I remember Joe Offer in one thread or other saying that we should not respond to trollers or flamers - but how do I recognise them?? Would you label the thread - 'Are veggies prats' trolling or flaming or is it just a controversial viewpoint - I'm confused - regards Ann


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:24 AM

Jelly Bean,

This has be covered so many times before.

Learn to use this site (read the FAQ for a start) and the Internet in general a bit.

Do a bit of research for yourself.

If you can't be bothered, then piss off


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Greyeyes
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:31 AM

Jelly bean, a simple definition is that flaming is deliberately insulting someone on the forum,as Guest has demonstrated above. Trolling is starting a thread deliberately to provoke trouble and dissent. Are veggies prats would probably be construed as trolling by most people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:51 AM

I would likely consider "are veggies prats?" as trolling because it states its view in a deliberately provocative fashion. Its possible to start a thread on a potentially controversial topic without insulting people you may disagree with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:05 PM

It's also possible to ask a completely legitimate question, or make a completely legitimate comment, and be accused of troublemaking. It happened to me on anothter forum, and blindsided me totally. I was very hurt and upset by it. :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:38 PM

Jelly bean, it's here, in the FAQ.

For an example of a flame, read GUEST's comment above. Keep in mind that one person's troll or flame can be another's provocative comment. It's also a good idea to develop somewhat of a thick skin when reading here. There are abusive folks everywhere, and things work better when we treat the abuse as solely their problem, and don't choose to make it ours. Abusers abuse to feel more powerful. If they mean to deliver a slap, it's best not to let it land. Flames are just words, and have no real power except what the reader gives to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 04:53 PM

The definition of trolling and flaming here can vary because there are some exceptionally thin skins here and some exceptionally thick ones.

If name calling, insulting or a condescending tone is involved, if the person is criticised instead of the idea. I would term it a flame unless, a **bg** or :) symbol is used to indicate humour.

Trolling is more difficult, I've know folks who were simply expressing their honest opinion without insult who were accused of trolling. Is someone posts a controversial statement and fails to respond reasonably to the subsequent posts then there is probably a troll under your bridge. But by then who cares? If the conversation interests you ignore the troll and talk with the others. If it doesn't interest you move to another thread. The one thing not to do is to whine about others who have responded. That is the troll's favourite food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 05:23 PM

Like most people I'm always making good resolutions not to rise to bait, and like most people I fail. (And I know that from time to time I've said things that some people have taken as trolling - a term which I think only applies really when people say things that they don't really mean that they know will get up people's noses.)

Anyway now I've made a good resolution I think I'll be able to keep. If I open up a non-music thread and it's been started by a GUEST, unadoirned GUEST or GUEST,someone (unless it's someone whose name I recognise and whom I respect), I'm going to close the thread down without reading it. I'll probably miss some good threads, since good discussion can develop out off the most unpromising beginnings, but there'll be another one alopng in a minute as they say of buses. (Not always true of buses, but it is of threads.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: X-Ed
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM

My experience so far has been direct insults due to an opposing point of view. Rather then try so debate or even persuade. So the terms you are concerned w/ are moot for teh most part.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:47 PM

I think this last week has been a pretty strange week anyway, X-ED.

Most of the time if you say something that other people are going to disagree with you get a fair and reasoned response, and I should know that. With the proviso that it's best to make it clear that you actually do mean what you say, and aren't just trying to rile people for its own sake. Because there have been some people who seem to have been doing that last, even in a time like this last week.

Most of the time is not always.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Jelly bean
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 05:22 AM

Thanks everyone for taking the trouble to reply in a constructive way to my question ( apart, of course, from the GUEST with the attitude problem)- I feel better informed after reading your comments - regards Ann


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 09:45 AM

We're a pretty decent bunch here, Ann...but the 'almost' total lack of censorship in an un-moderated forum allows a lot of leeway...even for those with cyber-chips on their shoulders.

Looks like you should be fine..*smile*...we even talk about music when you want...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 09:49 AM

Do you have any other questions that are already answered in the FAQ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: wildlone
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 11:38 AM

Why are you so frightened to put a name to yourself "GUEST"? or is it that you are so full of your own self importance that we should know who you are.
Now do us all a big favour run away,put your head down the toilet,after you have flushed it a few times you may feel a lot better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: For Fuck's Sake...
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 11:44 AM

Wildlone,

Your name has about as much meaning to me as GUEST's does.

GUEST makes a valid point.

Users should read FAQs before posting. That's always been a basic given in almost all discussion groups.

Mind you the FAQ here is such a long and rambling mess, I guess not doing so could be forgiven


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST, A Member, being Anon.
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 12:26 PM

'For Fuck's Sake'

How exactly do you mean? After all, YOU are the 'GUEST' causing all the trouble.

Sure, it would be a good & sensible idea to read the FAQ, as with any site, but you, under both names, used that as an excuse simply to Troll. Thats in the FAQ too....

Whaddaya want, the 'Rules' to support you & constrain everyone else?

If you feel youre entitled to that, then your problems evidently run a LOT deeper than just being sociopathic...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 12:36 PM

How nice.

Now we have a member being anonymous.

And here I thought it was so terrible.

Isn't it?

Another fine message from a probable "Inner Clique" member.

I wonder which of the sociopaths you refer to chicken member?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 12:43 PM

Dealing with flamers (Over 100 posts in this).


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: wildlone
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 12:55 PM

My email is available on the mudcat for members.
I would have thought that the person posting as "For Fuck's Sake" would know that some members with children use programs such as net nanny that will not allow access to web pages using swear words.
so that any threads that you post on will not be available to them.
dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: kendall
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 02:03 PM

Jelly bean, you have the disadvantage of starting like most everyone else, except Guest, he/she started out knowing everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 02:06 PM

I know you are easy.

Fish in a barrel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST, A Member, being Anon.
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM

I'll not be answering that last taunt.....let the Anonymous One make himself look stupid by cursing ME for being anonymous.

I'll let him have the last word, if he wants it...*shrugs*

....I will assure everyone else (prob he wont believe, not that its something I need care about, of course) that no way am I an 'Inner Clique' member (being as how I dont know the powers that be, dont know enough about music to contribute much, & havent been here long enough that people can really be expected to heed my opinions)... but all a 'clique' is, in something like this, is a group of friends...friends on whatever level. Hardly anything 'secretive' & 'sinister' about that.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM

So wonderful to get an answer that is a non-answer.

It was an answer though and I thank you for proving my point.

ka-ping

Another fish.

Want to try again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM

Before get you sucked in, or mnaybe "reeled in" is the correct expression, maybe just read that thread to which I gave a link I gave in my last post?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 03:26 PM

ka-ping

Got another one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST,Rasputin II
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 05:38 PM

I posted a thread, "Is this the WTC". It was a legitimate question. I got quick response from several of the members. With their razor sharp wit, they proceeded to mock my question. No serious responses.

This was my first and last thread to post. The Mudcat Cafe Discussion Forum has become an unwelcomed place for new people. Obviously, the members feel they have enough members and to hell with anyone else.

I asked a legitimate question and I was humiliated by the response. I felt picked on. I will follow this thread and when it has disappeared, I will never return to the Mudcat Cafe.

Rasputin II


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 06:08 PM

Bye then


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM

The mavens of mediocrity do not stop at mockery. They also stoop to ugly private messages and other sinister practices (I will not mention these to limit copy cat terrorists) directed to people like myself who do not remain annonymous. As a result I withdraw all contributions both monetary and literary to the mudcat forum.
Here is a typical message from your beloved throng.

Don Hackman's Private Messages --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Title Date M.Ted Your Missing Sock 2001-09-25 16:26:16 Archive

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: I am not posting to your thread, because I am hoping your triple repost is just the lead weight that it takes to sink it. I really am sick and tired of your rantings--I really don't know if you really are so agitated that you are unable to express a coherent thought, or you are just tend to run on--whatever it is, the stuff that you post is so full of something that comes across as hysterical rage--Everyone tends to rant a bit, especially at times like these, but they generally calm down--you don't seem to--It wouldn't hurt you at all to stop and read and think about what other people are saying, instead of attacking it and them all the time--The other people who post in the thread are real, and, for the most part, the things that they say are pretty much what they think and feel--It is not a debate that is being scored, and your "shoot at anything that moves" style doesn't do anything but agitate folks like Uncle Jaque and Cranky Yankee, and believe me, we have heard what they have to say about everything, even before they say it-- Ted


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 06:23 PM

Bye Donuel


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Jelly bean
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 04:20 PM

I am beginning to regret asking what I thought was a legitimate question. I am still feeling my way around mudcat and I do take the point that I should probably have looked in FAQ - although, in my defense, I didn't know until I looked what this was about. I think this is a great site and I am amazed at the trouble various people have taken to answer my questions on music and other topics, but am also upset about how offensive people can be to each other. Surely, we all start from a mutual interest in music - why do people, therefore, feel the need to be so rude to each other. I think it's sad that there are some people who have been so hurt that they are withdrawing from it - let's lighten up and pay each other the respect that we all deserve. It's possible to point out an error on someone's part, or disagree with someone without being so offensive isn't it? However, thanks again to those who have answered my queries - naive or not, with courtesy and kindness - regards to you all Ann


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 09:38 PM

Jelly Bean-I understand exadtly how you feel, last week I made a decision to leave Mudcat, this was because of all the arguing and trolls and insults.I left for a week then realised I was missing all the good stuff that is here, so I came back, I have met most of the Mudcatters in my local area and I consider them to be friends.I know some people here dont like me, and I am sure somebody will say it is a pity I came back! I think the best thing we can do is ignore the idiots, you are a good person, stick around and dont let the idiots put you off.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 09:48 PM

It seems that if you even start a tread about flames and trolls, or mention them at all, the thread will turn out to be a flame thread. Generally, the best policy is to ignore them completely - not to respond to them in either a positive or negative way. As my pet troll Shenandoah points out so often, I break that rule myself - sometimes effectively, and sometimes not.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 09:50 PM

"Nil carborandum illlegitimus."

("Don't let the bastards grind you down")


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 09:54 PM

John, mate, I'm pretty sure there isnt anyone here who dislikes you....whats there to dislike?

There have been those that have had a go at you but they are trolls... I think I've noticed most if not ALL of the posts against you, & thats how it seems to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Bert
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 10:15 PM

Hey Joe, I've got an idea, Since we can't seem to ignore Gutless, I suggest that we start loads of threads with the specific intent of taking the piss out of him.

Now I know that the late Frankie Howerd always said "It's wicked to mock the afflicted" But what he failed to mention was that it can be such fun.

Just look at this sorry sod. He knows he'll never make it into the inner clique because, to be one of us you have to be "someone". And as long as he is scared to admit to his own thoughts he will remain a nobody.

Now all members of the inner clique are real Mudcatters, and every single damned real Mudcatter is quite willing, and even proud to admit to being just a little bit crazy. Now poor old Gutless, he thinks that he is OK and it's every one else that's crazy. What a hoot this is. I get a big chuckle every time I see one of his postings. He thinks he's making an impression after posting for years and getting absolutely nowhere. He hasn't yet cottoned on to the fact that we all sit here at home laughing at him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 10:21 PM

Yeah, Bert, and we could probably come up with a pretty good Freudian analysis of him/her, too...

Hmmm. Flaccid: The Sexual Inadequacy of a Mudcat Troll....

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 04:43 AM

We could also solve another problem in one swoop! You know how we keep getting race/religion/femin/masculin-ist threads? Well, would anyone complain about speciesist? You know the sort of thing.

Troll walks into a bar with a pig under his arm. Barman says 'Phew - how do you stand that smell?'.

Pig replies, 'Oh, you get used to it...'

(No offense to the real genuine Troll on the Mudcat of course;-))

Perhaps you could run a program that trawls (trolls?) for offensive terms and jokes then inserts the word 'Troll' in place of the problem one, Joe?

Cheers

Dave the Gnome
(Vaguely related to the Troll but much nicer to know:-))


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Subject: RE: BS: Trolling & flaming
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 07:30 AM

Trolling and flaming around this site, Trolling never stops, but I wish those flamers might...


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 26 October 4:01 AM EDT

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