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OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE
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Subject: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:01 PM Just as the US named the gulf war 'desert storm', 'Infinite Justice' is the name of the 1st world war of the 21st century. This was preferred over Bush calling it a Crusade. 'finite injustice' was not in the running. This obituary is in advance to all that will die for their paradigm/God. Sadly not all of you will be remembered. We will be remembering the Americans. INFINITE JUSTICE : Sounds like a NEVER ENDING STORY. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Murray MacLeod Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:26 PM It is an excellent choice of words. If the President was responsible, he is to be commended. Murray |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 19 Sep 01 - 07:41 PM I think Bush was respondsible for "were gonna huntem down, smokem out and bringem ta justice" "...Dead or Alive"
With respect to all those who will gloriously : fall bleed burn choke sepsis explode to their death , may the infinity you face be just.
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Peg Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:33 PM I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: M.Ted Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:46 PM I thought it was "Indefinite Justice"-- |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:22 AM Someone mentioned something, on another thread, about an old SNL skit, where Dana Carvey as the elder Bush threatened Saddam Hussein with threats that he though he could understand... Why does "Operation: Infinite Justice" remind me of that? ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Peg Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:26 AM It reminds me of the sort of holy drama Reagan came very close to living out; he saw it as his destiny to blow up the world. Thank goodness he did not. But we came close more than once. Bush apparently sees it as his destiny to lead America on a path of righteousness, where we angrily destroy the world in our quest for petty, immediate retaliation. Sad.
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: GUEST, I, hurricane Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:31 AM That was me with the Dana Carvey reference, and I see your point. But on a much more important matter: we need to ACT NOW to stop this ridiculous name from going forward. On another thread, someone said is not officially adopted as yet, but the PR people at the top have leaked it out, presumably to test it's war marketing potential (what a thought.) I just saw it on CNN already. . . Please, no. . . Do you have any idea how many times we are going to have to read that meaningless yet still pretentious term??? My proposal: INFIDEL JUSTICE! |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 01:00 AM The Times of London reports that the Us and Great Britain are working on a joint, ten-year plan to combat terrorism. It's called;"Noble Eagle" Have fun. Oh, and read the article. It's on the Drudge Report. troll |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 01:20 AM Lets see if this works. Click Here troll |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Sorcha Date: 20 Sep 01 - 01:21 AM Yea, what happened to Operation Nobel Eagle?? Was that yesterday's news??? sheesh....... |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 01:55 AM "AMERICA UNITED!" "SMOKE 'EM OUTTA THEIR HOLES, HUNT 'EM DOWN, AND GIT 'EM!" "THE SLEEPING GIANT HAS BEEN AROUSED!" and "REMEMBER THE POSTER IN THE OLD WEST: 'WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE!'" "these terrist folks..." "Our Crusade" I have a question to all the war hawks out there: When you listen and look at our Commander-in-Chief, do you really think THIS is the guy who is going to kick some major league ass? I'm just asking all you conservative drum beaters out there -- man, you must be *embarrassed* that this is the best we have to offer. I know we are all supposed to be supportive of Mr. Bush, at the moment, but has it dawned on anyone that he is not, in fact, the "president?" I hate to bring up a thorny subject, but this is the man who *lost* the election in the eyes of the majority of voters. He got the *least* number of votes between the two major party candidates. His brother oversaw a rigged vote in Florida. I am so, so sorry to bring this up now, but the tragedy of the past week is EXACTLY the kind of horrible circumstance many Americans feared we'd find ourselves in -- A NATIONAL CRISIS UNDER A LEADER WHO IS NOT THERE BY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. It is a tribute to the goodwill of the American public that they have rallied behind George W. Bush as best they can, 'cause he and his fake flight jacket is all we got right now in the Oval Office. Someone needs to get in charge and propose some real solutions to bringing the perpetrators to justice and preventing this -- as best as possible -- from happening again. Instead, what we have is Bush speaking like a wind-up doll, mouthing a bunch of nonsense clichés, repeating them over and over and over. But occasionally his batteries run out -- and he goes off on some unintelligible tangent.[ I have seen this and believe me the 30 seconds or so of stammering silence is finally filled in with old campaign phrases "make no mistake yadayadayada.] You can see his handlers desperately trying to cut him off and whisk him away. You watch in awe and you ask the question that none of us even wants to contemplate right now, and that no one will dare to ask, so I might as well take the hit and be the one: THIS is the Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful country on earth? Who amongst you feels secure tonight? What enemy is going to be afraid of *this* guy? Bush keeps calling what we are in "a war." Has anyone told him that the more he keeps using this word, the more HE puts US in jeopardy? A "war" implies that two sides are participating in an action to kill as many of the other side as possible. Bush and the pundits use the word like it's a one-sided deal, like we're going to be the only ones doing the bombing. War means we bomb them, then they bomb us. That's what war is, you idiots. We strafe Afghanistan, then the terrorists drop a canister of chemical weapons in the New York subway. We send in a group of commandos and wipe out a camp of Muslims, they take out the Sears Tower. All of you who are screaming for war: are you prepared to pay the price, to take thousands of more casualties? Because, my big, macho-talking friends, THAT is what this kind of war would be like. America is a complex and open society with a massive and intricate infrastructure that is fragile and vulnerable and susceptible to easy attack and disruption. IT CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN WITH A BOXCUTTER. Let me repeat that: IT CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN -- IT CAN BE BROUGHT TO A TOTAL STANDSTILL -- BY A BOXCUTTER! Nearly a week with no stock market, no commercial television, no professional sports, three days with no planes in the air (for the first time since 1911), no airports open, the country essentially shut down. A week later and the phone lines still don't all work. A boxcutter, folks! Do not be misled into thinking he with the biggest missile is going to win this "war." {And your not going to get a very cohesive coalition if you say you will not distinguish between your country and the bad guys in it.} We will never be able to protect all of us from this kind of terrorism. Back and forth, more buildings bombed, more planes downed, more innocent American lives lost. When does this end? After we have killed every terrorist? When exactly is THAT scheduled to happen? Or is it just when we kill Osama bin Laden, *then* we win the war? Are you serious? We couldn't even assassinate Hitler during a massive World War that lasted 6 years! Bush now says this is "a war against the evil people in the world." Oh, really? THAT war! Yeah, we should be able to defeat "evil," oh, sometime in the next millennium or two. Get a grip. "War" is not going to get the justice we demand or make us more safe. You know it and I know it. There is a different way to go, and I will lay it out in a later letter, but to simplify it for now and put it in a nutshell, it goes like this: One billion people on this planet have no clean drinking water. Two billion have no electricity. Three billion have never made a phone call from their home. We have the money and the people-power to alter ALL of this. We also have the moral imperative to stop supporting repressive regimes and corporations who exploit these people. When we decide to help improve these billions of people's lives, we will pull the rug out from under the terrorists who need those they send to their deaths to be poor and exploited and angry at us. The multi-millionaire bin Laden isn't going to give up HIS life! When all the people in the Middle East have food on the table, a decent home, a good job, and democratic control over their own lives, who among them is going to be convinced to sacrifice his life by crashing himself into a tall office building? Sure, there will always be those who go insane and kill without reason. The British saw that in a Dunblane schoolyard, we saw it in Oklahoma City. There will always be religious fanatics willing to kill and be killed because they believe God has so ordered them. Ask the families of the assassinated women's clinics' doctors in Buffalo and Florida about those willing to commit evil in the name of religion in America. There IS a way to protect us from further attack, to lift the rest of the world out of its misery, but it requires some smarts and some guts, two things in short supply in Washington these days. After arriving in Columbus, Kathleen and I met up with one of our best friends from Flint, Al Hirvela. Al teaches at Ohio State. He was just the shot in the arm I needed this week. He, Kathleen, I and a bunch of others all used to put out an alternative newspaper in Flint many years ago and we miss being around each other in times like these. We miss being able to talk and try to figure out what it all means -- and what we should be doing about it. Al is a Quaker and a pacifist, and sitting in the Big Boy last night talking to him was the kind of grounding experience I needed after four days on the road. My publisher called two nights ago to ask where I might end up for the evening, as my editor wanted to ship me a copy of my new book, just off the press. This was bittersweet news -- I have dedicated this book to Al, and to think that I would be there when he opened it up and saw his name on that dedication page was indeed a lucky privilege, a cool moment I never expected to have. But the book publisher also gave me this news: They are "delaying" the release of my book due to the events of the past week. No doubt, this book is going to ruffle some feathers, and in light of the attack in New York, the book suddenly gave everyone connected to it (including me) the heebie-jeebies. What a feeling to have in a free country! In a way, though, I was relieved with their decision -- I have absolutely ZERO interest in going out on a book tour this week. Even though I have much I would like to say -- opinions and thoughts that are NOT being heard in the media right now -- I just can't go out there and have my name attached to something that is "on sale" (I have asked our webmaster to remove anything from our site that leads one to purchase any of my films, TV shows or books). I am very proud of this book, and I hoped it would stimulate a lot of discussion on various topics. I don't know now when it will come out -- maybe next month, maybe next year. In the meantime, I will continue to communicate on the Web and speak to any media outlet that will listen to -- and report uncensored -- what I have to say about the tragic situation in which we are now immersed. I can't believe all the incredible letters you are sending me -- over 41,000 letters in the last week. I am so sorry I cannot respond to each of you. I have scrolled down through the subject headings and read a few of the letters and it is clear I am not alone in my sadness over this tragedy or in the anger I have for what is being proposed by our leaders. I will print these letters and let our elected officials see what the REST of America is thinking about the idea of "war." We are now driving across Ohio toward West Virginia and Pennsylvania. On the radio, NPR is running a history report on Osama bin Laden. We are told that he comes from a wealthy family and that they are the main builders for the Saudi royal family. They've remodeled palaces and built holy sites. Their construction projects are everywhere. Kathleen turns to me, and with one word sums up the kind of low-life we are talking about here. "Contractors," she says. "Bin Laden is a contractor." Indeed, it all made sense. Someone at NPR tracked me down on the road and asked me to stop by the nearest NPR station and read my letters over the air. I agreed, but I got choked up reading them into the microphone. I wonder if they will even broadcast them. I hope they do, as I felt that my reading of them conveyed more of a real and human sense of what I am trying to say and what I am seeing on this drive across America. Later in the evening, my letters go out on an NPR program called "The Connection" from WBUR in Boston. More mail pours in. On the Pennsylvania Turnpike we pass through nearby Shanksville, PA, where the United flight went down. The girl at the newsstand counter in the rest stop says it was "just three miles down the road." Close enough for all of them to hear it crash. Her voice shakes as she tells me this. A car parked in front of the door has a temporary "Cemetery Pass" sitting on its dash. I think of Barbara Olson, the conservative commentator and wife of the man who argued Bush's case for installation in front of the courts last year. I have been on "Politically Incorrect" with her on a couple of occasions. She was always a warm and friendly person. She was on that plane, on her way to do that show. Monday night, the program went on, and Bill Maher left a chair on the stage empty, in her honor. I agreed with her on nothing, and I cried when I saw that empty chair. She was a human being who deserved to live. She was an American who loved her country. Maybe I should have gotten to know her better, instead of just ignoring her because of her politics. She was a year younger than me… We will make it home to New York, sometime tonight… Yours, Michael Moore mmflint@aol.com |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: katlaughing Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:13 AM Donuel, thank you very much for posting Michael's piece. I couldn't agree with him more (no pun intended.) |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: SeanM Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:24 AM Friend of mine on another list sent this idea out... if Benjamin Franklin had his way back centuries ago, would we be facing "Operation:Truculent Turkey"? M "In war, the first casualty is the truth" |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: InOBU Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:39 AM For they're just forgotten bones, lieing far from their homes As forgotten as the cause for which they died Ah Blueie can't ya see now why they died? Oh... if only Eric Boggle could come to New York soon... Cheers Larry |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:03 AM NOW I understand. Any attack on bin Laden will fail because George Bush isn't as facile a speaker as, say, Bill Clinton or Al Gore. Son-of-a-gun! So thats what it takes to be a good leader; speak well. In that case, Howard Stern or Imus would be good choices. troll |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: kendall Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:40 AM Troll, you know as well as we that his speaking style is a direct indication of his intelligence, Not his leadership ability. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:49 AM Their construction projects are everywhere. Kathleen turns to me, and with one word sums up the kind of low-life we are talking about here. "Contractors," she says. "Bin Laden is a contractor." Indeed, it all made sense. Easy with the abusive language, there. Some of us in SW engineering and other related work are also called contractors. Anyone who works on a contractual basis is a contractor. Apparently you and Kathleen have added some freight onto the word indicating something slimey or corrupt. Sorry, but I won't be painted with that brush and I don't think all contractors should be. Maybe you come from an area where all contractors are ALSO Mafia associates or something, but let's not poison some perfectly good semantics here. A |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:55 AM Steven Hawking has trouble talking and no one doubts HIS intelligence. His problem is medical of course but it illustrates a point. Just because someone is a fumble-mouth doesnot mean they are stupid. troll |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: katlaughing Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:48 AM Stephen Hawking has no trouble expressing his intelligence depite his dis-ability and was very able before he was so striken, too. Dubya couldn't express intelligence despite any ability because he has none. He is a puppet and a very poor choice of spokespuppet, at that. I cannot even stand to listen to him. He sounds devoid of any emotion, no inflections; it's as though he is reading to or in a remedial reading class. Even when he so casually speaks of war there is no passion in his voice. I can't imagine how the rest of the world must think when they hear him speak. kat Amos, sorry, I didn't mean to agree wiht Michael on the contractor bit. Glad you pointed that out, it was a cheap shot. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Deda Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:25 AM I agree with kat about the man's inability to speak. His voice gives me the willies, I can't bear to be reminded that he is up there pretending to represent the American people. Every time he says something along the lines of "That's what the American people elected me for..." (which he does regularly), I yell at the TV "WE DID NOT EITHER!" (I can be plenty eloquent myself when the mood strikes.) I felt similarly about his father's weird locutions, like "the vision thing" instead of "vision". I really think Yale's accredidation should be challenged on the basis that these two men were allowed to graduate even though they are barely able to speak their native language. I don't think Stephen Hawking has any difficulty expressing himself. His vocabulary positively beggars Dubya's. Has anyone read his books? On a completely different note, here is a comforting thought: "When it seems that our sorrow is too great to be borne, let us think of the great family of the heavy-hearted into which our grief has given us entrance, and inevitably, we will feel about us their arms, their sympathy and their understanding." -- Helen Keller
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Kim C Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:09 PM I suggested in another thread, Operation Pale Rider, as in "and I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and he that sat upon him was named Death, and hell followed close behind." It wasn't brought down with a box cutter. It was brought down with the idea of a B**B on board. Now, there may or may not have been a b**b, but the concept sure gets people's attention. I mean really, if someone tried to intimidate you with a box cutter, you'd probably just laugh at them. But if it's a box cutter and a b**b, well, that's a different story altogether. I know Bush has his detractors, and I would not call myself a supporter, but I really think he is going to end up surprising a lot of people. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: CarolC Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:21 PM Rumsfeld just said that the name will probably be changed to something else. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Peter T. Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:31 PM This is so unbelievably stupid that it could only come out of the Pentagon. An extremely good way to eliminate in one phrase all the good will internationally towards America that has happened over the last week. Sometimes you just have to shake your head at the infinite stupidity. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: CarolC Date: 20 Sep 01 - 12:35 PM Rumsfeld just said that the name will probably be changed to something else. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Sep 01 - 01:30 PM Were the situation not so serious, it would be hilarious. With all of the visiting heads of state, Bush has held a short press conference afterwards and these have been the absolute worst. They start okay, but then Dubys launches into his worn out rhetoric and Old West shoot-em-up crap and invariably they cut it off after a short time. You can just see the guys off to the sides.............
BUSH: "And just like them uh, those poster things, ya know, like they, uh,.... used to have on them, uh,.... you know the Wanted Dead or Alive......" We could have done better and the American people would still have rallied behind anyone.......We want to believe. George does make it tough at times. Spaw
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:02 PM Wow , a thread in which I agree with every contributor! Yes the name is being changed. It was called an [b]unauthorized leak[/b] at this point. It did sound like an never ending story but what do you expect from "a war against evil by those terrist folks"GWBush quote The new name is to reflect the fact ,as the DOD stated, that many victories will not be known, leaders will be killed and no one will know etc. In this light the new name should be [b]SILENT BUT DEADLY[/b] |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:27 PM kat and Deda, apparently you did not read the last line of my post. It seems to me that you are letting your dislike for Bush overshadow and color your reason and common sense. I personally despise Bill Clinton but I can recognize that he did do some good during his eight years in office. The Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 comes to mind. George Bush, for good or ill, is president and there are hard times ahead; hard enough to challenge any man. Before you condemn him out of hand, why not give him what many seem to be clamoring for for bin Laden. A fair trial. troll |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: GUEST,ust a nobody Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:47 PM Kendell: Where in the HELL did you read that crap that speech was a direct relation to intelligence? No seriously... What source do you have? Quote it for me, by all means ... I really want to know since there are many people that have disorders that effect speech and usage of language, but they are extremely intelligent... So just where is this well known fact? or is it just another way to bash the president. To the rest: Dear god.... so this is all over who won the fuckin' election to you... So anything you can criticize the president on, no matter how trivial, is good.... lets look at some of your options, since in a previous post it was considered conservatives must be hawks... I love that crap. Nothing shows ignorance like a good generalization. I assume many would be much happier with a good libral dem.... like Clinton (I know he couldn't have run) or Gore... Whose administration was filled with investigation. Magical documents that turned up in a closet. Directly lying to the American people... But at least they spoke really well!!! Damn.. why don't we have them back... Gore, with his macho Alpha crap... he would have been great in office in a time like this. Please, don't make the mistake that all people that are more conservative than yourself are warhawks... or is it ok for you to think like that, but not ok for others to look at the attack and apply it to all muslims. If you wish to set the example, live it. Now, if anyof you have a really good reason to attack the president, do so.... but on grounds of Policy. I suppose it is your right to not care about policy and only care what he calls a military action... Glad your priorities are straight. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 02:54 PM My son is intelligent but has dyspraxia and can not speak clearly. The point here is that words of a PRESIDENT are of extraoridinary importance. Important to the world and important to the nation. When a leader speaks like a child there is a perceived indication that there is grave inadequacy in the thinking process as well. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 03:01 PM Well, anonymous nobody, there was a time when I just would have said "oh, cut the crap -- he doesn't have a f**ing speech defect, he's just dumb!!" But I admit of late I have had second thoughts; I believe he does have a speech defect and there is some per centage of a brain inside trying mightily, if with only limited success, to get out. I still think of him as a dysfunctional human being though, and I am sorry he is in office; but troll is right -- he is there and we don't have an option right now. It is to his credit that he has so far handled this catastrophe with good will and a modicum of intelligence, hasn't launched tactical nukes on the heads of the recent Taliban convention (although I was tempted myself, emotionally) and has accepted the advice of his betters on strategic and tactical matters, public presentation, and diplomatic relations. As long as he does that, maybe his speech defect makes him a better sounding board for a smart round table of Cabinet level experts with some brains. So let's give it a rest on his personal peculiarities and stick to the issues. A |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: GUEST,UB Dan Date: 20 Sep 01 - 03:07 PM I wonder what the name of the terrist operation was... ...but it really doesn't matter, does it. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: kimmers Date: 20 Sep 01 - 03:30 PM Huh. For once, I find myself more-or-less agreeing with Troll. I guess I'm a slightly hawkish liberal, if there is such a thing. I will fight tooth and nail for social programs and social justice, but you attack my country and I get royally pissed. I'm not thrilled with Dubya; I wasn't happy when it became clear he would take office. But he's what we've got to work with... and rhetoric (or lack thereof) aside, I think he's doing okay. I could wish he were more eloquent, but the foreign heads of state that he has been meeting with have expressed their support in spite of his deficiencies as a public speaker. Perhaps he comes across better one on one... or perhaps those foreign governments simply are able to look behind Dubya and see the rest of the leaders, and the rest of the people. We have a long history with some of these other nations, a history that transcends part politics and the years that have passed between, say, the Allied invasion at Normandy and the present day. Bush has at least had the sense to balance his own weaknesses by surrounding himself with some cool-headed and brilliant people, some of whom are excellent communicators. Again, some of his cabinet members are people whose domestic politics bug me... but I can't fault the intelligence of people such as Cheney and Powell.
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Sep 01 - 03:46 PM There are many intelligent people surrounding Bush. However, the American people would get behind Tinley B. Fuzznuts at this point in time. My simple point is that this crisis has hit in a very weak spot for Bush, but not necessarily for those around him. All through the campaign it was no secret he was short on knowledge of International politics and religion (geography too), and he was never considered to be worth a damn "off the cuff." Now, those two liabilities have come home in one fell swoop. No, people with speech impairments are not all dumb/ignorant/stupid or whatever words have been used. We do relate certain sounds and voice patterns with a lack of intelligence and others with great intelligence, but this has proven time after time to not always be the case. LBJ for whatever else he was had great political sense and was above average in intelligence, but that Texas drawl damn near killed him. It was tough back then for a man to stand up for civil Rights when the word Negro came out "Neegraho"......Southern accents are often particularly associated with ignorance, but like one fella' in Alabama said, "Just 'cause we talk slow doan mean we think slow." I do have sympathy for the Bush handlers.......But I also have to have some confidence in the likes of a Colin Powell. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 04:00 PM Well,Well,Well. It would appear that there are a few other people on the Forum who can actually think! Welcome dear collegues. Welcome!except 'Spaw troll ***BG*** |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Kim C Date: 20 Sep 01 - 04:19 PM I have heard people make the comment, W must know he's really stupid because he's getting all these smart people around him to take care of him. Yeah, but that's really smart. Anyone with the slightest shred of leadership experience knows that a good leader gets Good People Behind Him. Rarely is anyone a good leader on his/her own steam alone. Those who are, are not leaders for very long. Napoleon is a good example. In the end his own supporters turned against him. Whether you do or don't like W, it's true, that's what we've got to work with, and he's got some good people around him. I have to say, I think Gore would have already crumbled by now. He is mediocre on a good day. If you don't believe me, ask the rest of Tennessee, who didn't vote for him. Now... I went to a newsletter seminar a few years ago, and the teacher said, unless you're editing a journal for scholars, keep your communications at an 8th grade level, because this will apply to the general public. Most people don't want to hear or read great big ten dollar words that make you look like a know-it-all. Watching the news, I thought W did pretty well for the most part. He talks like a regular guy. Aren't most of us regular guys? |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 04:37 PM Kim that is funny. Have you ever heard Bush try to pronounce a $5 word? Sobliminalmly |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: GUEST,emily rain Date: 20 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM i'm starting my own movement. it's called operation "scratch the IJ" |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: GUEST,Just a nobody Date: 20 Sep 01 - 04:51 PM I'm glad to see that people will at least acknowledge that he was smart enough to know his weaknesses and surround himself with people that compensated. I suppose that perhaps that, in and of itself, should indicate that he is smarter than some. Many don't know to look at thier own weakness's. Troll... well put. I'm glad to see somepeople will put aside personal (political) grudges, and look at the whole picture. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Skeptic Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:12 PM One of W's jobs (an important one) is to fill the role of Leader and whether he is effective at that is a subjective call. Whether Clinton, Gore, McCain or Bugs Bunny would or wouldn't have done as good a job is one of those unprovable assertions that, for me, aren't all that important. The reality is that we will never know. At this time, it's hard to judge Bush. There have been times since the attack that I found him wooden and others where the determination and emotion was clear. Whether he uses big or little words isn't important. During the campaign and after his election he seemed to have a less than 8th grade grasp of geography and foreign affairs and I found (and find) that troubling. The president makes the choice of what our response is to be, but who is providing the choices? It is not Bush or (with a few exceptions) his cabinet that will truly develop and implement our response, both immediate and long term, but the career military and civil service. (Powell and Cheny may be the execptions) Long before this crisis, the power, influence and subtle control they exert has been a reality. Bush may make the "final decision" but it will probably be among a limited set of options. troll, Other people who think? Surely you don't include yourself. :) Kim C, The 8th grade maxim is a newspaper rule too, but then the goal there is to sell newspapers not lead a newspaper. I like a little more literacy. Maybe 11th grade? (which isn't saying much these days). Regards John |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Greg F. Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:18 PM The '8th-grade maxim' is also a self-fulfilling prophesy. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Kim C Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:54 PM Well, it's a funny thing isn't it? I was listening to a book show the other day on my local NPR station, and the author that day had The Worst Southern Accent I ever heard in my life. And I've lived here all my life, and I've heard a lot of 'em. This one was the worst. And yet, the man's grammar was perfect, he was obviously not an idiot. There are some, however, who would hear his Bubba accent and think he had just crawled out of the swamp or something. Some people don't have a way with words. It's uncomfortable when it's someone who has to speak in public on a regular basis. But perhaps what he lacks in verbal prowess, W will be able to make up in other areas. Personally, though, I really like the word "strategery." |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 06:13 PM I find it easy to judge Bush. If it was your job to hire a PR spokesman for your local Nulear Power Plant and Bush came to an interview , would you hire him to speak for the company in times of accidents or disaster to finesse and reassure your customers? Was that Scotch you smelled? |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 06:50 PM So Rumsfeld learned that "infinite Justice is offensive to Muslims. War is offenseive after all so I am surprised it wasn't called: ALLAH PEANUTBUTTER SANDMONKEYS Eat ALLAH taSHIITE rAG hEAD ALLAH LA LALA LA LA ALLAH TADEATH SO LITTLE TIME OPERATION DEATH MOSQUE |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: DougR Date: 20 Sep 01 - 06:53 PM Donuel: Ronald Reagan was the "Great Communicator." I assume you are under the impression that he was a great intellectual too. Right? One of your favorite presidents I'll bet. Bush is no dumbo, but I've said that so often on these threads I realize there is no point in saying it anymore. Even your (read Democrat) party's senate and house leadership has publically acknowledged that they are impressed with Bush's leadership abilities in this crisis. Of course you detractors demand more. How about your hero, William Jefferson Clinton? His way of handling the terriorists (and there certainly was a lot of terrioristic activities on his watch) was to get in trouble, and in order to detract the press from his current problem (read skirts) he'd toss a missile wildly at them and blow up a pharmaceutical plant. But he sure made a good speech! I'm amazed so much attention has been given to the "title" of this campaign. Who really gives a tinker's damn what it's called? Maybe we should have a nationwide contest to see what it should be called! Then those of you with better ideas could communicate them to the Defense Department. I'm sure they would be happy to receive your suggestions. After all, they don't have much else to occupy their time these days. DougR |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: heric Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:13 PM Well, the powers that be care a lot or they wouldn't have leaked it to test public sentiment. I care because we are going to see it in four inch letters on twenty different television stations for the next six months at a minimum. Anyone who uses language should care because it hurts the back of the brain to see those two words juxtaposed. It makes no sense. The "infinite" makes most people of any culture start thinking of Godly issues, I would think. It implies God's vengeance to me, and I don't think that's a stretch. It's meaningless and offensive at the same time, which is quite an accomplishment. But luckily it's gone. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Donuel Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:13 PM Reagan was a great communicator as long as the speaker in his ear or teleprompter worked. I was the first to report on TV (Rochester NY) that I saw evidence of organic brain disease in the man during his 1st four years. |
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Paul from Hull Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:57 PM Operation 'Bitter Tears' would not seem inappropriate, to my mind...
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: AliUK Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:59 PM When will people realise that this is all a chance for the Lords of the New World Order to wipe the slate clean so that they can set up the new agenda for the next millenium. Lets look at the facts. Bush Is president of the mightiest nation on earth. His presidential victory was dubious to say the least, after much push-me-pull-you up there ( I say up there because I'm sarf of the equator)in Floridaland... I mean he's the perfect president to have in power at this present time. This situation has been in the cards for a loooong time, but Clinton was a wuss and wouldn't be the right kind of president to lead the world into an armed conflict. Noble Eagle is an anti-terrorist campaign that has been in the planning stages for sooo long. To get rid of the likes of the Muslims and ETA and lord knows who else. The IRA were cunning, they had there connections within the echelons of the american secret service, politicians in their pockets, why after decades of no disarmament cries do they suddenly start to look peaceful? 'Cos they don't want to be exterminated that's why. The conflicts in the former Yugoslavia and neighbours have been exacerbated when they could have been settled a long time ago if the UN and the USA had really wanted to, but obviously with their high muslim population they would make perfect bases for the terrorists to launch attacks against europe and the rest of the west, so keep them occupied with their own infighting and that keeps that sector out of it. subborn Pakistan into letting the western forces launch their attacks against an innocuous mountainous country and Bob's yer uncle!
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Subject: RE: OBIT: INFINITE JUSTICE From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:23 PM Skeptic, of course I think. I think. Donuel, if you were, in fact, a journalist, you know that it is a journalists job to be as objective as possible, to report only the facts as they stand, and leave the spin to the editorial page. Obviously you have abandoned that profession. It is easy to see that it's easy for you to judge Bush. You don't like the man and therefore nothing he does is right. No, I wouldn't hire him to make reassuring speeches. He's not very good at it. But that's not his job you see. His job is to provide leadership and, so far, he's done a good enough job of that. Any Hollywood actor could probably give a better speech if that's what you want but somehow I don't see Robert Downey, Jr. providing much in the way of leadership. Infinite Justice, on the other hand has real possibilities. Like IJIT! troll |
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