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BS: America has LOST THE WAR

catspaw49 20 Sep 01 - 10:20 AM
Kim C 20 Sep 01 - 10:04 AM
GUEST,Gimli 20 Sep 01 - 10:04 AM
GUEST,Yeah but... 20 Sep 01 - 09:48 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Sep 01 - 09:30 AM
Skeptic 20 Sep 01 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,Clancy 20 Sep 01 - 09:25 AM
flattop 20 Sep 01 - 09:09 AM
Troll 20 Sep 01 - 09:06 AM
Troll 20 Sep 01 - 09:00 AM
Amos 20 Sep 01 - 08:50 AM
kendall 20 Sep 01 - 08:44 AM
Donuel 20 Sep 01 - 08:27 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:20 AM

Donuel.....I'm not sure if you are scared, confused, or a complete flake. I'll have to figure it's the former which is certainly natural in this time. You posted the article on the other thread and I think we have two different ways of seeing it. Whatever you are, I'll assume you are not a troll as you have been around awhile and yet also don't respond much after posting controversial threads.

I too worry about the overall direction that is being taken, but at the same time I am heartened that time keeps passing without a massive retaliation. Whatever reservations I may have about Dubya, I also believe that he is "covered" by many intelligent advisors in his cabinet and Congress. I am not so naive as to think that we will do ALL the things I'd like to see and remain free of bloodshed.......it won't happen. I can only hope though that most of what we do will result in diminishing of the NEED the terrorists feel to attack innocents.

I see great hope in the world reaction and the world involvement in this action. I also see that perhaps we will have the sense to come down on our own home-grown terrorists. We are also making noises that we will now and finally get serious about not just rooting out the terrorists, but getting to the root causes of their actions.

What I also believe is that the people of the world and this country have the stamina and the desire to end this type of "warfare." Look to the heartland of this country and you see folks looking for an end to terrorism and not anxious to go into any kind of false war. They are willing to support Bush in his efforts to bring Bin Laden to justice and to stamp out the organization, but they fear for their children and the world they inherit. Hence, they are willing to do whatever it takes to end this. They are also prepared for a long term gain over short term vengeance. It is in this reaction which I see growing across the country, even among the hawks, that I take the most encouragement. Many of these same people were at first ready to blow the hell out of anything in the Middle East, but are now moving over to a more long term stance. Not all.....but many......

BTW, if you DID post this as a troll.........Fuck off, ya' got me. Now go have a Coke and a Smile and Shut the Fuck Up!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:04 AM

To quote a famous movie:

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No! It's not over till we say it's over!"

[yes I know it was not the Germans but if you know the movie, you'll understand ;-) ]


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: GUEST,Gimli
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:04 AM

"Faithless is he who leaves the path when at its darkest"


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: GUEST,Yeah but...
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:48 AM

Wasn't Walter Cronkite the guy who thought that the Tet offensive was a stunning strategic victory for the North Vietnamese?


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:30 AM

YOU have already lost, Donuel, and anyone else who thinks like that. Give up at the first sign of trouble? Concede defeat and run away like scared rabits? Presuming you are in the US, what happened to the spirit that fought off the British oppression? What happened to the power that led the world? I guess it still lingers on in the millions upon millions of Americans who will not accept defeat at the hands of a bully.

The British did not accept it at Dunkirk or during the Blitz - and that spirit helped us hold out until allies came to our aid. Don't give up like that. Stick it out, everyone is already with you.

I am NOT advocating violence or retaliation btw - just the opposite. It is a strong man indeed who will not accept defeat from either his enemies or his own emotions!

Cheers

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Skeptic
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:26 AM

We are not at war. Maybe after Bush's speech tonight we will be, if Congress so votes. Not sure who we would declare war on but we'll see.

As I understand it, under State of Emergency declarations, the President has far more powers to temporally suspend things (already in Law). If War is declared by Congress, they have to start authorizing things like keeping the press out (deja vu: Desert Storm), suspending habeas corpus and so on.

BTW, the conspiracy sights are having a field day as their scenario for the powers that be getting rid of the Constitution, suspending elections and so on has always been for a permanant state of emergency to be declared.

But we should be troubled by the press thing. Censoring after the fact (as was done in WWII) is one thing. This is another and is a little ominous.

Regards

John


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: GUEST,Clancy
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:25 AM

We haven't even started. The only way we can lose the war against terrorism is by betraying our own principles of decency, fairness and justice. Someone has been watching too much talk show TV over the last week...

Bush is our President. I didn't vote for him, but I'm not asking for a recount now, Donuel. We don't need to bomb Afganistan into the stone age...they're already there, and anyone who could fly, drive, run, limp or crawl has already abandoned the Taliban's bankrupt regime.

There's an overreaction that comes with the sudden realization that, hey, maybe we SHOULD have paid attention to Gary Hart and the others on the Commission that studied and reported on terrorism. It said we would face this much and worse...and it did so a few months ago.

Thank God for Americans, Donuel...we don't give up so easily. I'm not saying you're chicken, but you sure are demonstrating some "hen-house ways!"


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: flattop
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:09 AM

Use your brain Donuel. Take your time. Read a bit of history. Look at how much of America that hasn't been crippled. People, including leaders will adjust from day to day.

Remember what what's-his-name said to John Travolta, "When we were good we were never as good as they thought we were. When we bad we were never as bad as they thought we were." Walter Concrete won't have the last word. One of us will argue. Given margins of errors and margins of cheating on both sides, Bush is as legitimate as the other guy and he might be better in a crisis. Who knows?


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Troll
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:06 AM

Also remember Amos, never try to teach a pig to sing.
It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Troll
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 09:00 AM

Now, now Amos. It's not nice to tell someone they've done something stupid.
Unless you're a talking to some one who doesn't agree with you who happens to be a little right of center.
They're fair game.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Amos
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:50 AM

Donuel:

This is a stupid thing to say and do.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: America has LOST THE WAR
From: kendall
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:44 AM

No, we havn't lost, yet, the Sears tower still stands, the White House is unscathed, the statue of Paul Bunyon in Bangor Maine is still there.


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Subject: America has LOST THE WAR
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:27 AM

There is already a Billion dollar monument in Washington DC to our defeat. The National Airport is closed indefitetly.
Rather than immediately equip flights with any viable defense (that could defeat a boxcutter)it is virtually business as usual at 40% flight reductions, 100,000 layoffs and bankruptcies. There is already a defiling/defeat of our Constitution. It took Walter Cronkite this morning to explain that the Bush administration policy of disallowing any journalist or civilian cameras access to "the war" as well as the rules for search and seizure suspended without so much as a review board.
We have declared war on John Doe. The Supream Court selected President said "we will destroy all evil in the world, Were gonna git those terrist folks, huntem,smokem,bringem ta justice dead or alive...in our crusade", and many other stammering utterences so childish as to qualify as a new low in history. In the use/misuse of the english language we seem to be most forgiving.
It is forcast our strong suit will be staying power of 15 or more years at war. As the WTC is now referred to with 3 or more adjectives , by the time a cessation of hostilities is ever achieved, there will be no adjectives for the WTC since it will be overshadowed my many worse events.
America has already lost because of the lost freedom that was so anxiously surrendered due to the "horrible senseless trajedy" at the WTC.


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