Lyr/Tune Req: Dere's Trouble in De Land

Subject: Political Ballad, circa 1900-1910
From:
Date: 30 Dec 96 - 08:52 AM

Looking for words and tune to "Dere's Trouble in De Land," a political ballad about the 1900 assassination of Kentucky Governor William Goebel. It may have been a takeoff on Bill Day's "Rowan County Troubles," and was supposedly sung at Democratic conventions by a trio made up of the prosecutor of the alleged murderers (Robert Franklin) and the two bodyguards who were with Goebel when he was shot (Jack Chinn, Eph Lillard). Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Norman L. Snider [e-mail]

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See There's Anger in the Land (click)

Subject: RE:
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 09:48 PM

No luck finding "Dere's Trouble in De Land," but did find this info mentioned on this site:

"Rowan County Troubles," published in "Ballad Makin' in the Mountains of Kentucky," pp.1-9, by Jean Thomas, New York: Henry Holt, 1939, music arr. by Walter Kob.

Also, from Traditional Ballad Index:

"Rowan County Crew (Trouble, or Tragedy), The [Laws E20] DESCRIPTION: An account of the Tolliver-Martin feud, which the legal system is powerless to end. Casualties of the fighting include John Martin, Floyd Tolliver, Sol Bradley (an innocent bystander), and Deputy Sheriff Baumgartner; even this does not end the feud AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1918 (Cox) KEYWORDS: feud death fight injury HISTORICAL REFERENCES: 1884 - Date of the Tolliver-Martin shootings FOUND IN: US(Ap,SE,So) REFERENCES (6 citations): Laws E20, "The Rowan County Crew (Trouble, or Tragedy)" Randolph 169, "The Rowan County Crew" (1 text, 1 tune) Combs/Wilgus 61, pp. 161-162, "The Tolliver Song" (1 text) JHCox 39, "A Tolliver-Martin Feud Song" (1 text) Botkin-AmFolklr, pp. 891-892, "Rowan County Troubles" (1 text, 1 tune) DT 703, ROWANCRW RECORDINGS: Dock Boggs, "Rowan County Crew" (on Boggs1, BoggsCD1) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "A West Virginia Feud Song" (theme, lyrics, metre) File: LE20"

You can get Jean Thomas's book at this site for (I presume it's dollars) $10.00.

"5508. Thomas, Jean. BALLAD MAKIN' IN THE MOUNTAINS OF KENTUCKY. New York: Oak Publications, 1964. 8vo. Very Good Originally published in 1939, this is the Oak reprint with musical examples, documentary photographs, 90 songs (including 23 with music) collected from traditional singers."

Don't know if any of this is helpful or not, but am posting in case someone else has more info.

Lin

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Recent Ballad Index entry:

Rowan County Crew (Trouble, or Tragedy), The [Laws E20]

DESCRIPTION: An account of the Tolliver-Martin feud, which the legal system is powerless to end. Casualties of the fighting include John Martin, Floyd Tolliver, Sol Bradley (an innocent bystander), and Deputy Sheriff Baumgartner; even this does not end the feud
AUTHOR: James W. Day ("Jilson Setters")
EARLIEST DATE: 1918 (Cox)
KEYWORDS: feud death fight injury
HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
1884 - Date of the Tolliver-Martin shootings
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MW,SE,So,SW)
REFERENCES (13 citations):
Laws E20, "The Rowan County Crew (Trouble, or Tragedy)"
Thomas-Makin', pp. 5-9, "Rowan County Troubles" (1 text, 1 tune)
Thomas-Devil's, pp. 148-150, "The Rowan County Troubles" (1 text, 1 tune)
Randolph 169, "The Rowan County Crew" (1 text, 1 tune)
Lomax-Singing, pp. 324-326, "The Rowan County Crew" (1 text, 1 tune)
Combs/Wilgus 61, pp. 161-162, "The Tolliver Song" (1 text)
JHCox 39, "A Tolliver-Martin Feud Song" (1 text)
JHCoxIIB, #1A-C, pp. 111-118, "The Rowan County Crew" (2 texts plus a fragment, 2 tunes)
Peters, pp. 196-197, "Rowan County Trouble" (1 text, 1 tune)
Cohen-AFS1, pp. 257-258 "The Rowan County Crew" (1 text)
Botkin-AmFolklr, pp. 891-892, "Rowan County Troubles" (1 text, 1 tune)
Darling-NAS, pp. 194-195, "The Rowan County Crew" (1 text)
DT 703, ROWANCRW
Roud #465
RECORDINGS:
Dock Boggs, "Rowan County Crew" (on Boggs1, BoggsCD1)
Ted Chestnut [as Chesnut], "The Rowan County Feud" (Gennett 6513/Champion 15524 [as Cal Turner], 1928)
Robert L. Day, "The Rowan County Crew" (AFS, 1938; on KMM)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "A West Virginia Feud Song" (theme, lyrics, metre)
cf. "Death of Samuel Adams" (lyrics)
NOTES [64 words]: Jean Thomas, who knew both James W. Day (who had been in the area when the feud started) and Lucy (Mrs. John) Martin, has extensive notes about the arguments which led to this feud.
Interestingly, Thomas attributes this song to James W. Day, not "Jilson Setters," even though she always calls him "Setters" elsewhere. I can't even find a hint in Thomas that the two were the same. - RBW
Last updated in version 4.5
File: LE20

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Subject: RE:
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 09:05 AM

Is this related to There's grieving in the plum groves, there's sobbing in the sand, there's sorrow in the shanty and there's anger in the land / There's been another lynching, and another grain of sand Swells the mountain of resentment, O there's anger in the land...?

Subject: RE: "Dere's Trouble in De Land"
From: masato sakurai
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 09:38 AM

There's "Rowan County Troubles" (with music) in Jean Thomas' Ballad Makin' in the Mountains of Kentucky (Oak, 1964, pp. 19-22), but no mention of "Dere's Trouble in de Land."
~Masato

Subject: RE:
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 12:22 PM

Masato, I think that's what I said... The original poster had mentioned that "it may be a takeoff on Rowan County Troubles" (also known as "Rowan County Crew" by the way), so I posted what info I could find on that song.

Mrrzy--the verse you mention sounds interesting. Is it from "Rowan County Troubles" and do you have the rest of it?

Lin

Subject: RE:
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 02:33 PM

It's from an album (LP) made during a folk festival, probably in the 70's - her is as much as I recall:

O, there's grieving in the plum groves, there's sobbing in the sand
There's sorrow in the shanty and there's anger in the land
There's been another lynching, and another grain of sand
Swells the mountain of resentment, O there's anger in the land
A woman broods in silence, close beside her open door
Flung down on her flimsy doorstep lies a corpse upon the floor
You'll not ask me why I'm silent, the woman said to me
Her two eyes blazed with anger and her throat throbbed agony
Once my heart could cry in sorrow, now it lies there on the floor
(something something something something), they can't hurt him any more
(now I may be missing a verse here)
Repeat first 2 verses

This one always got to me, I can't sing it through. The singer is a black woman, no idea at all who, or where the folk festival was, I think West Virginia or something.

Subject: RE:
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 07:52 PM

Wow! No idea what the name of that one is, but what images! Thanks, Mrrzy.

Lin

Subject: Lyr Add: THERE'S ANGER IN THE LAND (Don West)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 02:22 PM

The following is from

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/aph/summary/v036/36.4.west03.html

"(Author's Note: In the summer of 1950 I picked up a Negro hitchhiker in South Georgia and brought him across the Chattahoochee at Eufala, Alabama. As we crossed the river he began telling me the story of how his brother was lynched and his body cut down from the limb and flung across the doorstep of his mother's shack—broken, bleeding and lifeless. This poem has been set to music by folksinger, Hedy West, and is on her Vanguard album number two.)

O, there's grieving in the plum-grove
And there's weeping in the weeds,
There is sorrow in the shanty
Where a broken body bleeds.

For there's been another lynching
And another grain of sand
Swells the mountain of resentment—
O, there's anger in the land!

And a woman broods in silence
Close beside an open door
Flung across the flimsy door-step
Lies a corpse upon the floor!

You'll not ask me why I'm silent;
Thus the woman spoke to me.
Her two eyes blazed hot with anger
And her throat throbbed agony.

Let the wind go crying yonder
In the tree-tops by the spring,
Let its voice be soft and feeling
Like it was a living thing.

Once my heart could cry in sorrow
Now it lies there in the floor
In the ashes by the hearth-stone—
They can't hurt it anymore!

Did you ever see a lynching,
Ever see a frenzied mob
Mill around a swaying body
When it's done the hellish job?

O, there's grieving in the plum-grove
And there's sobbing in the sands,
There is sorrow in the shanties—
And there's anger in the land!

from The Road is Rocky, (1951) reprinted in No Lonesome Road: Selected Prose and Poems of Don West (2004)"

Subject: Lyr Add: THERE'S ANGER IN THE LAND (from PP&M)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 02:26 PM

THERE'S ANGER IN THE LAND
Words by Don West, music by Hedy West
As sung by Peter, Paul and Mary

There's grievin' in the country.
There's sorrow in the sand.
There's sobbin' in the shanty,
And there's anger in the land.

A woman broods in silence
Close beside an open door.
Flung on her flimsy doorstep
Lies a corpse upon the floor.

"Do not ask me why I'm silent,"
The woman said to me.
Her two eyes blazed in anger
And her throat throbbed agony.

"Oh, once my heart could cry in sorrow.
Now it lies there on the floor
In the ashes by the hearthstone.
They can't hurt it anymore."

Oh, let the wind go cryin' yonder
In the tree-tops by the spring.
Let its voice be soft and feeling
Like it was a living thing.

There's grievin' in the country.
There's sorrow in the sand.
There's sobbin' in the shanty,
And there's anger in the land.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Dere's Trouble in De Land
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:00 PM

There's a song called "There's Trouble in the Land" here:

https://www.discogs.com/J-D-Jarvis-And-The-Rocky-Mt-Boys-Theres-Trouble-In-The-Land/release/14119849

But I haven't found a recording to listen to, to see if it has any tie to the requested song.

Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Dere's Trouble in De Land
From: cnd
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:31 PM

If you make an account at gripsweat.com you can possibly hear an audio sample, but their website doesn't tell which songs you here clips of. 20 bucks a year is a risk I'm not willing to take for it to not be there.

It was also on his album "Old Time Country Gospel" if anyone has that album. I should be able to get you the lyrics to the song within a week.

But, in other news, I've found the lyrics the original requester was definitely after! I'll post them in a separate message.

Subject: Lyr Add: There's Trouble In the Land
From: cnd
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:58 PM

Transcribed as printed in The Atlanta Constitution, Februaru 18th, 1900, p. 19: https://www.fold3.com/image/80062774

There's Trouble In the Land
("Bob" Franklin)

They voted loud, they voted long,
Oh, Lord, take the children out of Pharaoh's hand.
But Hissem changed his little song,
Oh, Lord, take the children out of Pharaoh's hand;
And Rummins like a little man,
Oh, Lord, take the children out of Pharaoh's hand,
Did take a grander, nobler stand.

CHORUS
Oh, Lord, there's trouble in the land;
Oh, Lord, there's trouble in the land;
Oh, Lord, there's trouble in the land;
Oh, Lord, take the children out of Pharaoh's hand.

And Carpenter from the mountains high
Did also say, "Good God, goodbye,"
And for one from his native land
Did cast his vote and there's he'll stand.

Dr. James did chaw and bat his eye,
Why, he looked as he was 'bout to cry,
Oh, wasn't that a mighty jolt
When Hissem cast his vote for Holt?

Old Blandford scowled and pulled his beard,
And Lyons like a little bird,
Did fly from out that 'sembly hall
And to his gum-shoe boss did bawl.

Hunter said, "Go back in there,
Take old Hissem by the hair,
Give him fits, it'll do him good;
I'd do it myself if only I could."

Lyons did straightaway go back
And at Mr. Hissem took a crack,
But it wran to chaw the rag,
For Hissem said "just Lyons brag."

Again Lyons came with downcast look
And said old Hissem is on that book,
And looks to me he's thar to stay,
As for you he won't one word say.

Landis, noble man and true,
No longer serves the famed gum-shoe,
He said that he had been deceived
If Hunter's script could be believed.

Hunter said, "Go way, go way,
For this is my unlucky day,
I thought that I was doing well,
But this whole damn thing has gone to hell.

"But I says, boys, did you all know
Of the row kicked up by H. J. Poor?
He cast his vote against John Boyle
For the sake of all the men that toil.

Poor did rise up out his seat
And said, "If old Joe Blackburn's beat,
It must be by one without guile,
And such an one is not Carlisle."

They lit on Kaufman all spread out,
But before they knew what we were 'bout
James and Walton were sad of feeling,
For their dear feet were on the ceiling.

Goebel, learned man and brave,
Said, "You shan't sneak through Ike Wilson's grave
And steal that U. S. senate seat,
And Stege helped the thieves to beat."

Bronston, noble man and true,
Did grandly stand for us, for you,
Noblest Roman, aye, of all,
Who stood and spoke in senate hall.

That Sabbath night shame, shame to tell,
We heard the ringing of that bell,
'Twas call to arms by tyrant scared,
Lest tyrant Ceasar's fate he fared

With braying brass and beating drums
Pharaoh Bradley's host did come.
But another day for freedom's won
Without the firing of a gun.

Jack Chinn, so feared, no Brutus proved,
But Moses like 'mongst soldiers moved;
About our streets with smiles he walked
To see Kentucky's Pharaoh balked.

Free silver democrats as true as steel,
Say they will die for party weal;
But I must tell you this plain fact,
We have had some who flew the track.

Concluding chorus:
Oh, Lord, there's joy in the land,
Oh, Lord, there's joy in the land,
Oh, Lord, there's joy in the land,
Since the Lord took the children out of Pharaoh's hands.


This song is intended to be descriptive of the senatorial race and of Governor Bradley ordering out the troops to quell Colonel Chinn and his companions.

The article also has quite a bit of interesting details about Kentucky politics, but this is the relevant parts.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Dere's Trouble in De Land
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 02:09 PM

That is great, cnd.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Dere's Trouble in De Land
From: cnd
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 12:03 PM

Joe, the version by J. D. Jarvis is a different song. The lyrics go in this format:

Temptation's in the land, temptation's in the land
You'd better look up to Jesus, there's temptations in the land
Temptation's in the land, temptation's in the land
You'd better look up to Jesus, there's temptations in the land

Then, continue the song replacing temptation with:
- There's trouble ...
- There's heartaches ...
- There's trouble ...