Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 03:13 PM

I have observed that Observer (always Guest, why not sign up properly) has a habit of jumping on people from a height, and doing down their posts. (Including one or 2 of mine - I await results!) Is that "flaming" or "trolling"? If I've read his or her post of 28th August correctly, he/she has never heard it being sung. But difficult to interpret what exactly is going on here, with so many quotes and re-quotes going on.
But for the record, Guest Observer, the song is still very much alive and kicking, still being sung, by the likes of Danny Couper, Ewan McVicar, Alastair McDonald and other less famous people in plenty of song sessions in Scotland.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 02:40 PM

Observer, I think you are being somewhat obtuse -- or, possibly. trolling (as Jim has suggested).

I don't think it would be difficult to show (from TV and press reports) that the original protest on 3/3/61 involved more than just a few kayakers : I'm absolutely certain that there will be print and video evidence of onshore activity, either marching or sitting.

But what I do know, without a shadow of a doubt, is that one of the treasures of the whole protest is the grand song 'The Eskimo Republic'

   Where there is nae class and there is nae boss
   Nae kings or queens and damn the loss
   And you get boozed up for a six-month doss
   In the Eskimo Republic!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 08:55 AM

The NVA Data Base article was one I found and posted as it appeared to shed light pertinent to the original enquiry. It obviously didn't, no skin of my nose.

As for the Scotsman's archives and the British Library here is what I wrote once you had clarified an earlier question of mine:

GUEST,Observer
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 12:16 PM

Ah, thanks for the explanation. The Scotsman's online archive contains content of the newspaper from 1817, or 1855 UP TO 1950. From 1950 onward you have to pay, hence your trip to the British Library - got it.

Please point out where the "sneering" is identified in that post. Besides McLean, being based, as you are, down in London the British Library would be a damned sight more convenient and wider source for your research than that of The Scotsman archives which I presume are located up in Edinburgh - which makes your choice perfect common sense and I do not believe that I made any reference to you paying, or not paying anything, so you can tuck that new low away as I never made any comment about it at all. Just mark it down as yet another McLean myth, something that has never happened.

The events that you are looking into occurred in 1961, so why were you looking at articles printed in The Scotsman 1971 (YOUR post this thread Jim McLean Date: 23 Aug 18 - 12:54 PM) or was that just a typo.

IF what you have told us is in any way factual we know the following:

1: You were not on the first demo at all, as the first demo was the one made by those English CND protesters in kayaks who tried to impede and interfere with the mooring of the USS Proteus in the Holy Loch on the 3rd March 1961.

2: IF Captain Richard Laning USN had made any comment regarding "Goddam Eskimos" at all, he would have been referring to the protesters in the kayaks who were present when the USS Proteus was coming in to moor on the 3rd March.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 04:32 AM

The reason I entered this thread was from an academic standpoint I wanted and still want to find the date when Captain Laning reputedly said "We're not worried. They're jus a bunch of goddam Eskimos".
I wanted this information to date the writing of the song "The Glasgow Eskimos" by T S Law.
Observer's intervention's have been incorrect and full of poisonous insults. The NVA data example was written in 2012 and merely conflated "demonstrators " with "Eskimos" and the writer's sources were empty of information and confirmation.
I had and have no intention of discussing the merits of "protest" songs pertaining to my serious quest in seeking the date of Captain Laning's quote. This is purely academic and Observer's sneering at my using the British Library rather pay to use the Scotsman's data base is a new low.
If you have nothing positive to add to my enquiry I suggest you 'Tak the road an' seek ither loanings for your ill ploy tae sport and play'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:31 PM

If I could offer a wee suggestion?

Having known (and heard and sung) these songs since they were first written, I never understood them as presenting historical records of events. It was always my belief that their proper purpose was to build morale and help keep a sense of focus and solidarity in a struggle that was never going to be either quick or easy.

I remember a dear friend saying that irreverent protest songs of this type were potentially more useful -- especially on a march where pavement spectators might only catch a small section of one of the more wordy, hymn-like protests like 'The H-Bomb's Thunder': making melodic bullet points (snappy statements with much repetition) allowed bystanders to pick it up very quickly!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 02:30 PM

Ah well Gallus if your taste and stated preference in songs runs to deliberately misleading propaganda, then Jim McLean's efforts tick every box.

An observation Mr MacKenzie, I find it rather ludicrous that a man of your age still believes in dragons, I know for certain that I have always understood them to be mythical creatures. I take it that that is why you must obviously believe in the worth of Jim McLean's sometime equally invented and mythical version of events.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 02:01 PM

and Observer....Puff the Magic Dragon didn't really live by the sea, but it rhymed with Honalee you see.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 01:14 PM

Dear Observer, I bow to your expertise and superior knowledge - you are obviously a world expert on -- everything?
Tho' it does seem strange that you waited 55 years to offer your belated and unhelpful criticism to Jim, just think how much better his huge body of work might have been with your earlier input.....? (not!!)
Fortunately for people like me, we have thoroughly enjoyed all the Jim Mclean songs we have come across, feeling they captured a moment in time; we added many of them to our own repertoires, some are still relevant today.
So - - why don't you go and compose your own meticulously researched songs, accurate to nth degree -as for the rest of us -jist leez'alane!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 06:48 AM

I think perhaps "poetic licence" is the thing we are discussing Gallus. Guest Observer's points do appear to be valid, tho' I would not have expressed them to Jim so forcibly.
Personally, I'm not too keen on folk music as a political vehicle these days, but I'm also sure Jim wrote the song with entertainment and humour in mind.....preaching to the converted :0), but I'm afraid most of the great political ideas that I have had in my life, have perished in the depths of despair, or the rocks of reality.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 06:35 AM

Ah Gallus so only people who have written songs are allowed to comment on someone else's work. When did that become the rule? Or like McLean did you just make that up as it suits whatever your drift on things is?

"The Glesga Eskimos" = Bunch of ineffectual posers who actually did nothing and achieved nothing apart from writing daft songs boasting about things that they never did and had no part in. That Gallus is the truth of the matter.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Gallus Moll (away from home!)
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 05:23 AM

It's a folk song, ffs - no' a thesis!!!!

- how about you direct us to some - one? - of your own compositions, so we may view an example of how it should be done?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 06:46 PM

as you have not actually bothered to listen to the Glesca Eskimos or probably any of the other songs from that era

Now as you apparently cannot read or comprehend the English language Gallus Moll, here once again is what was said:

Taking credit and stealing the thunder of others by false appropriation is, I think rather despicable, making the song itself nothing more than a "braggart's" chant. Thankfully, in all the decades that I have been attending folk clubs, concerts and festivals, I have never heard it sung.

I have however read the lyrics (Difficult not to - they appear in this thread) but I would suggest that there is a marked difference in someone who has not actually bothered to listen to the Glesca Eskimos and someone who has never heard it sung

But Gallus as someone who thinks the song is a great, fun song

Taking this bit first:

We'll gaff that nyaff ca'd Lanin
We'll spear him whaur he blows
We are the Glesca Eskimos

Well the "Glesca Eskimos" gaffed nobody did they - they were totally ineffectual and none actually existed when Laning and the Proteus turned up according to Jim McLean.

We've been in mony a rammy, lads, we've been in mony a tear
We've sortit oot this kind afore, we'll sort them onywhere
O, get yuir harpoons ready--he's comin up for air
--We are the Glesca Eskimos

"Been in mony a rammy, we've been in mony a tear" - very much doubt it.

"We've sortit oot this kind before, we'll sort them onywhere" - The Glesca Eskimos as described by McLean sortit oot naebody, they couldn't even be bothered to turn up on the day. They achieved S.F.A.

I would have thought for a song to be relevant it would have to bear some, even the vaguest, semblance to the events the song describes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:40 PM

Observer you really do talk a load of shite -- (or sh*te as this is an American site) - folk songs do not require to be factually accurate, they reflect how the people feel / felt about something!!!! Just go to the ballads - many of them originating hundreds of years ago, surviving as fragments, being reconstructed and modified to suit other eras, other areas----
Anyway - history as written by the winners of any conflict is not accurate either!!!
And as you have not actually bothered to listen to the Glesca Eskimos or probably any of the other songs from that era -- I don't see any reason why you should be pompously commenting!!! I think its a great, fun song and sang it and many of the others like Ding Dong Dollar to US naval people while they were in Dunoon - and still do anytime I get a chance! (You forgot to mention that Yanks and the general population of the USA are not synonymous- - but it disnae matter - it's part of the songs!!)
You are just nit picking and I have no idea why -- Jim McLean is a brilliant songwriter, I have been enjoying and singing many of his songs for years before even finding out he was the composer!
- What have you written?
I recently composed a ballad (is that a logical statement?!) - Ake, I hope you will appreciate this when you hear it. It is about the death / murder of Baron Macinturner on the Larach between Whistlefield and Ardentinny. There are only fragments of oral history and a little bit of written info -- not necessarily accurate, the event was in 1685 (ish) and I always felt there should be a song or ballad. Eventually it wrote itself in the right hand side of my brain, rhymes and all - and a fair bit of it is 'made up' as there are no facts on which to base the story! But it is all part of painting a picture, filling in the gaps of a dastardly deed and commemorating an event. I am hoping members of the local communities will offer additional ideas and even info, the song can be modified to incorporate these- - I certainly don't expect someone to come along and have a go at me for what, in their opinion, is inaccurate!!!!
Awa' and write yer ain sang!!!
(Ake I humbly apologise for thinking you were grumpy observer!!! Ah should hae kent better!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 10:47 AM

Oh dear, seeking clarification on a point rather poorly stated, and offering up a article that seemed to shed some light on the OP's question is being nasty, obstructive, negative and vile. Matter of opinion I suppose but at least I do not take credit for acts carried out by others. As to your research Jim, why break the habit of a lifetime, just invent the information you think you need.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 08:46 AM

I posed my question in the interest of academic research. I have no problem with healthy debate but Observer has just been nasty, his/her attitude has been obstructive, negative and vile. This is why I am taking no further part in this conversation. Apologies to GM and Akenaton.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 02:43 AM

Gallus, I'm surprised to hear that you thought I might be posting under another name. Jim has always been a gentleman towards me on this forum, likewise Guest Observer from whom I have learned a great deal. It upsets me to see these two people disagreeing in such terms, but this is an open discussion forum and we all have our own priorities regarding what we see as important.
BS is now an echo chamber, let us hope that vigorous discussion is not proscribed here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 02:17 AM

GM no I am not Akenaton, who I believe has always posted to this forum under one constant name. As to who you like and do not like, that is of no concern to me.

As to the kayaks how I ken wha exactly wis therr onyweys - Jim McLean himself told us all that they were all English visitors and that he and his pals only called themselves "The Glasgow Eskimos" AFTER USS Proteus berthed in the Holy Loch in March 1961.

Taking credit and stealing the thunder of others by false appropriation is, I think rather despicable, making the song itself nothing more than a "braggart's" chant. Thankfully, in all the decades that I have been attending folk clubs, concerts and festivals, I have never heard it sung.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 07:04 PM

observer - is that you, Ake?! Goany leave Jim McLean alane, I like and respect him!!
He is seeking printed information about what Captain Laning actually said - when and if in fact he said it.
Disnae matter wha wis in yon canoes/kayaks - - and hoo dae ye ken wha exactly wis therr onyweys?
Ah micht hae been a wee bit young to join them at the time(tho if I'd lived locally I reckon I would have!) but I know lots of folks who did take part and a considerable number came from the Glasgow area.....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 04:36 PM

Ignore all you want McLean - but truth is truth - your life and beliefs are based on lies.

No-one in Glasgow was part of that protest, yet you and your chums lay claim to it and now you are desperately searching round for provenance to support a lie and take credit for what English tourists/visitors did.

What "heroic" deed undertaken by others are you going to appropriate and take credit for next?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 03:03 PM

Ignore tick, ignore tick ignore .........

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 02:34 PM

A "Troll" am I McLean?

Please tell me which of YOUR words are false.

1. Laning was supposed to have called those in the kayaks "Nothing but a Goddamn bunch of Eskimos" - You are seeking proof that he actually said this.   Just tick YES or NO

2. Of those who were out on the water that day not one single kayaker was a Scot let alone a Scot from Glasgow, according to you they were English? Just tick YES or NO

3. As it would be those people (all Englishmen) in kayaks that Captain Laning USN would have been referring to HAD HE ACTUALLY made the comment you are seeking verification of. Can you tell me where "The Glasgow Eskimos" comes from? Unless of course that you are happy to be part of a group that undeservedly takes the credit for the actions of others.

4. Does truth and honesty actually feature in your universe? Or do you just normally write songs that completely misrepresent everything you see?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 06:15 AM

GM I have a distant memory of being at the Cowal games, must be over 70 years ago. I can see and hear the mass pipers appearing over the hill, tremendous sight.
Anent that troll's post saying the Eskimos existed before Proteus arrived, the lady who wrote the piece in 2013 just put the word 'Eskimo' in front of everything, made it up. I checked all her sources and only one mentioned the Eskiimo and that Ailie Munro who just repeated the phrase that Laning had called the protesters Eskimoes. Another repeat of a repeat but no evidence Laning said it. I'm still searching .......

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 03:44 PM

off topic a bit -- it is Cowal Games weekend and I went to the annual session at Ardentinny Bowling Club - it's kinda like Groudnhog day 'cept we all get older- - ! Still sing the same old songs, but that is what everyone expects! Brilliant night as ever -- I even tried out my newly composed ballad of the death of Baron Macintuner, an dastardly
local murder in 1685.
Anyway there were some Americans there, from Oregon - a group of old friends / folkies, sang and played both US and Irish songs and tunes. They were renting a house locally, a]might have been over to support people in The Games? I sang them Ding Dong Dollar - the only one I could remember the words for without prior notice! (see this old age?!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 03:57 AM

GM I was sent a scan from that book by Bill Wagman, especially the page which says the Provost was piped aboard the Proteus. I read in the Scotman's account of that day 3rd March 1961 that after the morning's press conference, Captain Laning went ashore to pay his repects and later she, Provost McPhail, visited the ship.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 03:51 AM

WARNING I have just realised that Observer is the same mischievous troll who posted on previous threads when I posted my song about Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's wedding. I was mistaken in answering him/her in the first place and advise all serious minded people on this thread to ignore him/her. A time waster.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 02:59 AM

Again thanks for the explanation. However I find it rather bizarre that you formed your group to prevent the USS Proteus from berthing in Holy Loch some time after the Proteus berthed in the Holy loch. Also interested to hear that the canoeists were not Scottish but English, which would lead on to the question regarding your choice of name for your group as you have just said that you and your Glasgow pals had nothing to do with the canoes that DID try to prevent the US Depot ship from berthing in Holy Loch on the 3rd March 1961. So in fact there were no Glasgow Eskimos at all.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Gallus Moll (away from home!)
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 05:41 PM

There is also the Site 1 association (?) Which organises reunions and keeps u.s. naval ex servicemen in touch....if they posted the Q i am sure someone would know the answer!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Gallus Moll (away from home!)
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 05:36 PM

Andrene's has lots of interviews and memories of both Dunoon locals and US Navy people /dedependents. One mention was of the press briefing, i think on the ship? By Captain Laning to which the lady provost was invited....
Sorry i am really busy for next 10 days, will try to get to research then - unless someone else has come up with ananswer?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 02:45 PM

"The above" however is incorrect. We formed the Glasgow Eskimos some time after the Proteus berthed in the Holy loch. The canoeists, by the way had come up from England and this is well documented on various bums paper, the Glasgow Herald, the Guardian and many Armeriscan newspapers. I have spent the last few months scanning American. English and Scottish newspapers covering the period of January to June 1961. The term Eskimo was coined AFTER the Proteus arrived, of this I am 100% sure, I was there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 01:27 PM

Glasgae Eskimos Origin? Source: Global Nonviolent Action Data Base

Extract from above link:

In preparation for the arrival of Proteus, local protesters formed a group called the Glasgow Eskimos to occupy the water with kayaks and rowboats alongside the CND, which would conduct land protests. In a rehearsal on 2 March, the Eskimos announced their intention to "cross the path of the Proteus and obstruct its entrance…Specific actions of nonviolent civil disobedience to obstruct each of the submarines as they arrive will be carried out until May." However the next day the protesters did not have enough boats to form a barrier across the Loch as planned, with three canoes and one dinghy in attendance. When the ship passed and anchored in Holy Loch, several members of the CND attempted to invade the boat by climbing onto the anchor chains until they were pried off by US sailors.

If the above is correct the name being attributed as originating from a throwaway remark by Captain Laning USN was in use at roughly three weeks before Laning and the USS Proteus arrived in the Clyde.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 12:54 PM

GM thanks for all your hard work. I've been at the British Library today and looked at the March 1971 edition of the Scotsman but nothing I didn't know before. Going back tomorrow to search April, May and June.
I've been told about that lady Messerschmith and saw a scan of a page about the provost visiting the Ptoteus. I've searched lots of American papers and the Glasgow Herlad archives but although lots of news about th demonstrations ... I was there on Marxh 4th 1961, I found a newspaper picture dated 5th March showing us "Eskimos" on the ferry, singing, no names but I was there as was, Nigel Denver, Josh McRae and Jack O'Connor
My quest to find a newspaper report, not just word of mouth repeating the Captain Lening's phrase mentioning the Eskimoes, continues.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 12:25 PM

I went to the Dunoon Library today planning on checking the local paper microfiched archives -- couldny as they've not been done 1950-1980! Think they must hope for more funding - the previous stuff had special grants? (possibly from EU I vaguely recall---)
Shave as that would have been free and pretty easy. Now I'll need to make an appointment / pay per hour and wear white gloves to trawl through the paper's own archives- - not till after next week tho!
I did check /skim read a couple of books in the library (Andrene Messerschmid's American Years -- I probably mis-spelt her name, sorry - and GG Giarchi's Between Polaris and MacAlpine but nothing leapt out at me- - there were some great pictures from Herald and Times archives of protesters sitting outside the pier entrance and sailors trying to step through them!
Think there might be some other books / records in the museum, shall visit there too.
Or - Ake if you are in town with time to spare - -- ???!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 12:16 PM

Ah, thanks for the explanation. The Scotsman's online archive contains content of the newspaper from 1817, or 1855 UP TO 1950. From 1950 onward you have to pay, hence your trip to the British Library - got it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 08:30 AM

Observer: online archive of the Scotsman stops at 1950. The British Library holds microfilm for all dates up to the present.
The date of the quote and where it was reported is important for research purposes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 07:23 AM

Am I missing something here? Jim McLean is searching for a quote from a Captain Laning USN, of the USS Proteus from 3rd March 1961, or thereabouts and says:

Jim McLean
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 03:44 AM

Thanks, GM. All the newspaper reports I have been pointed to were false, no mention of Laning's so called statement "They're just a bunch of goddam Eskimos". Lots of people repeat this but I need a definitive printing. I have searched the Glasgow Herald Archives, but no luck so on Thursday I'm going to the British Library to see the Scotsman over the relevant dates on microfilm. The Scotsman's online archive stops at 1950 and to see more they have a paywall.

How could looking at microfilm or hard copy articles that appeared in the Scotsman pre-1950 have any bearing on what a USN Captain might, or might not, have said in March 1961?

As for the alleged quote - the song's been written, never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 05:24 AM

Sorry Jim , the last guest was me.....and I am definitely a "yesser" to independence, but I fear we are onto a loser with the current crop of SNP politicians.....they seem to come out of a PC mould which would never sit well with folk like Josh, Maurice, or any of the other people who protested the siting of WMDs in Holy Loch.
If its of any interest to respondents, a young akenaton got a wet arse sitting on the road at Ardnadam Pier.
Gallus Moll is FAR to young, and as far as I know has never got her a**e wet! :0)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 03:24 AM

A "Yesser" is some one who believes in Scottish Self determination and about 16,000 marched in Dundee as All Under One Banner on Saturday 18th August 2018.
Discrimination it certainly was but the marchers just ignored the manager and carried on into town.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 05:11 PM

What's a "Yesser"? and is not being served some kind of discrimination?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:36 PM

GM It's called the Boozey Cow sitting near Roseangle. The manage said it wasn't politically motivated but just too many people but the police disagreed with him.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 01:22 PM

- what's the name of the pub that wouldn't serve yessers? I fancy coming to Dundee specially to boycott it -- or better still, fill it up with folks who only want a glass of tap water?!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 01:21 PM

There were still plenty pubs not serving women in the mid sixties into the seventies / equal pay ere- - also some city centre coffee establishments which we were told were for businessmen only at certain times of the day! And - I couldn't get a mortgage without a male guarantor in 1971 in Dunoon - there was no-where to live, US Navy personnel rented all the flats! ( Got a local authority loan instead)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:05 AM

GM I was on the first demo after the Proteus berthed in the Holy Loch, on 3rd March 1961. There is a photo of us, Josh McRae, Nigel Denver, Jackie O'Connor with Morris and Marion Blythamn, taken on the gangway on the ferry just going into Dunoon, 4th March 1961. On the same day the photo was taken which adorns the sleeve of the Ding Dong Dollar album, I'm on the top right by the CND sign. It was either during the Press Conference with Captain Laning on the 3rd March or very soon after that he made the oft repeated quote that the demonstrators were ".... A goddam bunch of Eskimos " and it's definite proof of this quote I cannot find. I'm going to the British Lonrary of Thursday to check the Scotsman newspaper on microfilm.
Jim, times don't change ... last Saturday at the Dundee All Under One Banner, a pub refused service to the YES marchers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:40 AM

My abiding memory of the marches I was on was the fact that, in those days, the pubs didn't serve women
I saw a section of the march passing a pub at the side of the road and marchers breaking off to have a pint
Some of us not from Scotland resented that women couldn't get served so we went into the pub, marched right through the bar and out of the far door
A section of the march actually passed through a pub
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Spot
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:31 AM

Interesting thread. Thanks

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 06:53 PM

--- there's still a few folk around who were part of the protests, perhaps some of them will remember?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 03:44 AM

Thanks, GM. All the newspaper reports I have been pointed to were false, no mention of Laning's so called statement "They're just a bunch of goddam Eskimos". Lots of people repeat this but I need a definitive printing. I have searched the Glasgow Herald Archives, but no luck so on Thursday I'm going to the British Library to see the Scotsman over the relevant dates on microfilm. The Scotsman's online archive stops at 1950 and to see more they have a paywall.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:04 PM

another version I heard was that they wore parkas with fur round the hood thus looking like Eskimos - - also they were in canoes; I'll ask on Dunoon in Old Photos, some former US Navy people read and post there.
There is also a Site 1 (facebook? or website?) group -- think Site 1 was Holy Loch. Perhaps Captain Laning or people who knew him will be on there?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:50 AM

I'm still looking for the official, newspaper article, on when Captain Richard B Laning (correct spelling) referred to the canoeists as Eskimos. The article mentioned by Susan, Glasgow Herald 25 March, 1961, does not appear in that paper and all mentions of Laning's comment appear only to be apocryphal and repeated. I would like hard evidence so if anyone can help .....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: GUEST,Jim McLean
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM

I noticed I've been credited with writing Land of Mclead. This was written by Roddy McMillan as I mentioned in another thread (Highland Clearances?) It makes a change from not being credited at all!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The glesga eskimos
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 04:01 PM

Here are some bits and pieces (which may have appeared elsewhere before - I can't remember):

[1987:] Back in Glasgow the Anti-Polaris Base movement was in full swing with regular demonstrations at the Holy Loch in Dunoon, [...] and leading this movement was a one-man folk revival called Josh McRae. [His] group was known as the Reivers which after some good recording and TV work broke up leaving Josh on his own to lead off the 'Glasgow Eskimoes' a loose grouping of singers whose concentration was upon getting that Base out of the Clyde. [...] As an outlet for contemporary song the Eskimoes had given and were giving stimulus to the creation of hundreds of songs. (McGinn of the Calton 51ff.)

[1990:] [Morris Blythman] was criticised for using so many Orange tunes and references in his campaigning songs. [...] Morris and the poet T. S. Law both worked on the song The Glesca Eskimos, which made use of the American Civil War tune Marching Through Georgia. They were reclaiming the tune, which had been used in Glasgow for an Orange song, in which Hurrah, hurrah, we bring the Jubilee became Hullo, hullo, we are the Billy Boys. This is the only example of a political tune I know - several people have been quite agitated at the idea of singing any lyrics at all to this tune in Glasgow, because of its association with Protestant extremism and anti-Catholicism. (McVicar, One Singer One Song 62)

[1994:] Glasgow Herald, 25 May [196?]: "The anti-Polaris demonstrators today lost the last of their thirteen kayaks in the Holy Loch. The depot ship Proteus was held up as she entered the Loch by lone canoeist Sean Edwards who put out from Kilmun where the demonstrators are encamped. Edwards evaded pursuing launches and got within twenty yards of the vessel before being tipped into the water by naval frogmen. At the subsequent press conference, Captain Lanin, the commander of the Proteus, scoffed at the demonstrators. "They don't worry us," he declared. "They're just a bunch of goddam Eskimos." That was a serious tactical error on Lanin's part because back in Springburn the collective mincer held a sort of apres-rammy soiree and sulking [and went on protesting] (Gordon McCulloch, The Glasgow Eskimos - show at the 1994 Glasgow International Folk Festival)