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Osama & Saddam

GUEST,William Safire 24 Sep 01 - 10:43 AM
Fortunato 24 Sep 01 - 11:31 AM
Kim C 24 Sep 01 - 12:12 PM
GUEST 24 Sep 01 - 12:20 PM
DougR 25 Sep 01 - 01:25 AM
Troll 25 Sep 01 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,Nick 25 Sep 01 - 10:01 AM
Kim C 25 Sep 01 - 10:02 AM
GeorgeH 25 Sep 01 - 10:19 AM
Troll 25 Sep 01 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,6000 innocent dead people in NYC 25 Sep 01 - 11:21 AM
Kim C 25 Sep 01 - 11:25 AM
Nemesis 25 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM
LR Mole 26 Sep 01 - 03:49 PM
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Subject: Osama & Saddam
From: GUEST,William Safire
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 10:43 AM

"We're looking for links" between Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist group and Iraq's Saddam Hussein, said Colin Powell yesterday. So far, our secretary of state can see "no clear link" between bin Laden's forces in Afghanistan and the America-hater publicly laughing at our grief in Baghdad.

Powell does not want to acknowledge any evidence of sponsorship of bin Laden by Iraq because that would demand a crushing blow at an Arab state. It might limit the diplomatic convoy of consensus he is assembling, which will travel at the rate of its most grudging member.

The clear link between the terrorist in hiding and the terrorist in power can be found in Kurdistan, that northern portion of Iraq protected by U.S. and British aircraft from Saddam's savagery.

Kurdish sources tell me (and anyone else who will listen) that the Iraqi dictator has armed and financed a fifth column of Al Qaeda mullahs and terrorists that calls itself the Jund al Islam ("Soldiers of Islam"). Its purposes are to assassinate the leaders of free Kurdistan, to sabotage the relief efforts of the U.N. and to whip up religious fervor in that free Muslim region. That is how Saddam plans to reconquer the no-flight zone that has been a thorn in his side for a decade.

According to a key member of the Kurdish resistance reached by cellphone in Suleymaniyah, some 400 "Arab Afghan" mercenaries armed with Katyusha rockets transported by Toyota Land Cruisers, have been infiltrated into the liberated region by Saddam's secret intelligence force, the Mukhabarat. They have already murdered a high Kurdish official as well as a Muslim scholar who dared to interpret the Koran humanely.

This current, direct threat by Muslim fanatics doing Saddam's bidding is uniting the two squabbling democratic parties in the free zone. Some 75,000 Kurdish warriors, protected from air attack by our fighter patrols, are headed by longtime rivals Massoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani. These Kurds are not Arabs or anti- Turkish terrorists. Nor are they pseudo-religious extremists humiliating women and moderates; on the contrary, the Muslim faith practiced in northern Iraq has long been marked by tolerance.

As Kurds get reports from compatriots in Baghdad that Saddam's security services are hastily moving out of their offices, anticipating an allied strike, Barzani and Talabani are identifying and isolating Saddam's fifth columnists. The Kurds await word from Washington about when to move on Afghan terrorists in their midst, and eagerly look forward to joining an allied assault on Baghdad.

That brings us to the strategic decision now being debated in President Bush's war council.

Do we respond to our initial, catastrophic defeat in a wholly multilateral way? That would mean seeking intelligence crumbs from Saudi and Egyptian potentates, negotiating cautious U.N. resolutions, hunkering down to limit the damage of suicide bombers, and beginning a phased air and ground assault on bin Laden's "base" in Afghanistan to be followed up with joint police work for years around the world. It would fight yesterday's terrorist war.

Or do we recognize now the greater danger of germ warfare or nuclear attack from a proven terrorist nation, and couple expected retribution for this month's attack with a strategy of pre-emptive retaliation? Such use of our superpower need not require our "going it alone"; civilized nations unafraid of internal revolt will understand the threat to their citizens and stand with us.

Suicidal fanatics have proved they can kill by the thousands, and in time our commandos and bombers — perhaps joined by a Muslim brigade including Afghans, Turks and Kurds — will penetrate their cells and obliterate their camps and firebomb their caves. But Iraqi scientists today working feverishly in hidden biological laboratories and underground nuclear facilities would, if undisturbed, enable the hate-driven, power-crazed Saddam to kill millions. That capability would transform him from a boxed-in bully into a rampant world power.

It's troubling when Powell says that President Bush "has not worked out what he might do in later stages." Now is the time to work out how to strike down terrorism's boss of all bosses. "Later" may be a stage too late.


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Fortunato
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 11:31 AM

Guest. I'm interested and was previously unaware of Sadam's Jund al islam. Where can I get more information about this?


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 12:12 PM

I'm curious to know how these poor people in Eurasia are able to have cell phones...


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 12:20 PM

Sounds like the follow-up to "Springtime for Hitler".


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: DougR
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 01:25 AM

Yeah, one wouldn't get a clue from the adopted name of the poster, would one?

DougR


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Troll
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 09:08 AM

Kim C, the Kurds are running a war. Not all of them are destitute peasants with no knowledge of the West. It would be quite natural for some, especially the leaders, to have cell phones. They are prety much ubiquitous now. I found them in Siberia and on the Mongolian steppes last summer.

troll


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:01 AM

The original poster may have "adopted" the name - but the post IS William Safire's New York Times article dated September 24. Nick


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:02 AM

Thanks troll.... I know not all of them are poor, but I had doubts about things like towers, reception, etc., in such mountainous terrain. I mean, there's still places in Tennessee where my high-powered tri-mode phone won't work. So I guess it sort of surprised me that they would work over there, after seeing pictures of Afghanistan in the news & stuff...

'Course, it makes sense, out in the middle of nowhere, to have a portable phone, instead of laying cable and all that...

I am technologically challenged. I still don't understand how those little people get inside the TV.


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: GeorgeH
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:19 AM

I note Safire's war-mongering omits to mention persecution of the Kurds by the Turks . . and to define what he means by "democratic parties" . . As for the notion of "Free Kurdistan" - well, clearly the man has been dreaming.

And what "catastrophic defeat" was that? (No, I'm not minimising the event . . just the propagandist terms Safire addresses it in)

Oh, and remember, guys - it was the US who supplied Iraq with the basis of both their chemical and biological warfare development kits. But, of course, the US comes pretty high up the league table of Govenment Sponsors of Terrorism . . .

Sorry, but the article is full of bullshit.

George


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Troll
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:43 AM

Kim C the cell phone was in northern Iraq, I believe.
George, thanks for the scholarly refutation of Safires article.

troll


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: GUEST,6000 innocent dead people in NYC
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 11:21 AM

GeogeH,

We're sure that Osama bin Laden and his friends take great comfort in your analysis.


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 11:25 AM

Yeah but they said they had previously been tracking bin Laden by his cell phone so I just assumed they meant Afghanistan... oh well.


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: Nemesis
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM

Hey, on the main news tonight the Queen just got a cell phone!!

(Also - just to add to the debate: Osama has nothing in common with Saddam Hussein apart from their mutual hatred of the USA. Saddam is a secularist who has killed more Islamic clerics than any "Great Satan" - Osama is a RELIGIOUS fundaementalist)

I AM NOW IGNORING THIS THREAD

Hille


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Subject: RE: Osama & Saddam
From: LR Mole
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 03:49 PM

And yet, to make the obvious comment, motivation means little to the dead, as far as we know.


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