talent agencies

Subject: talent agencies
From: Charcloth
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 09:50 PM

I am considering using a talent agency to help me get more bookings. I know there are more gig possibilities out there than what this little pea brain of mine is aware of. Have any of you gone that route before? Was it worth the ride or was it a disaster? I am asking for advice here if you haven't figured that out. Thanks, Charcloth

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 11:13 PM

When I was going to University I helped a guy once who set up the folk singers when they came on campus. If memory serves there is an organiser on every campus in America. I'd call your local College and ask for that person. I'll bet they could tell you how to get in that loop.

All my stage stuff is old news and the few I do now is with friends for the local irrigation group or similar folks.

Talent agencies charge for their service is all I know. I never made enough to use one!

Good luck!

Peace - Steve

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: DougR
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 01:34 AM

Hmmm. I was under the impression that legitimate talent agencies worked on commission. They take a percentage of what you earn from the gig. Anyone who doesn't work that way I wouldn't go near.

DougR

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 01:52 AM

Steve is talking about the student activites coordinator--there is one on every campus, but they have a national organization, and the national organization has an annual publication that lists all of the booking and talent agencies that serve the college circuits, as well as the acts that they handle--only thing, I can't remember the name of the association--I think it is something like ASAC-Association of Student Activities Coordinators, but I tried looking it up, and can't find it--

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: English Jon
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 05:03 AM

Well, my agent charges 10% of what he can get for my services, so if a gig costs the venue £100, I see £90 of it, which is fair enough. More to the point, make sure your agent is actively seeking work for you. It's quite easy for agents to just concentrate on the big names on their books, which means us obscure people don't get so much of a look in. Phone your agent a couple of times a month and badger him a bit!

EJ

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Charcloth
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 07:51 AM

I was under the impression angencies charged about 25% or more which is partly why I didn't want to go this route before. What is the going rate. I heard the Col. charged Elvis 50%. That's robbery for sure! I'll have to check out the student's activities cooridinator & see what happens.

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: 53
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 03:46 PM

be very careful about contracts. read and reread them before you sign one ,believe me it's for your own good.bob

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Bert
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM

I used one in England and he took 10% and it worked out fine. I've never even found one in this area.

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM

How can you call it robbery, when the guy made him rich? If you could get Colonel Tom Parker to handle your act, it would be worth whatever cut he took--I'd rather give him 50% of a million dollar contract than keep 100% of a $75 bar gig--

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: DougR
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 08:10 PM

If they are accredited agents, I think they cannot take more than 15% of gross.

DougR

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 10:50 PM

Doug is right--Col, Tom was also a manager and promoter, and any additional money he made was related to that--

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Charcloth
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 11:31 PM

Geez! Lighten up all I am saying if you make $100 for a gig , pay the Gov. 36% (or there abouts) & then pay 50% of the take to an agent that only leaves you with about $14. I did try an agency once they took 20% & it took me 3 months to get my pay. That wasn't the best of deals. So my question is, Are there agencies out there worth while or was my bad experience typical?

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: DougR
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 11:40 PM

Charcloth: you picked the wrong agency. Stick with those that are affiliated with reputable national organizations. 20% is outrageous.

DougR

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 03:31 AM

Be very careful!!!

My band had our fingers burnt... badly!

Ours took 10%... but he was hopeless. Double booking us, booking us, then not bothering to tell us a gig was cancelled...trying to get nasty little lines in our contracts... (which I was the one to read and caught him out each time... he used to try and use flowery written language to bamboozle us, fortunately though I'm dyslexic I have a very good eye for contracts, and deciphering their meanings!)

Watch your contracts, make sure that the contract protects you, as well as the event organiser.. eg... that if they cancel you within so many hours of the gig, they pay you a certain percentage of the gig fees... or if it is last minute, they pay you the whole fee. And watch out for the little gem our agency tried to put in one of ours... that if for ANY reasons (including illness, accidents etc) we didn't turn up we were liable to pay the ORGANISERS a percentage of our fees to them! CRAZY!

Be careful!

Ella

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: English Jon
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 06:29 AM

MU gives guidelines for what agents should do for you, and how much of a cut is reasonable. At the end of the day, if they are getting you more work than you would have got yourself, then it's probably worth doing. My agent bills me for his cut, I get paid up-front by venues. That way all financial dealings get sorted really quickly.

EJ

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Charcloth
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 07:47 AM

Question DougR, How do you tell if they are with a reputable organization or not?

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: bill\sables
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 08:02 AM

I had an agent who charged 16% including VAT. He is a member of the British Association. I caught him out when he asked us to do a £120 booking on a Tuesday night, Our usual fee was £200 but he pleaded that it was Tuesday and a girl's birthday party so we agreed. We did the booking for £120 and he charged his usual 16% but when he took the booking he also charged the birthday girl £80 deposit so in the end he got £80 plus 16% of £120. I wouldn't trust another agent as long as he has a hole in his arse.
Bill

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Justa Picker
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 11:10 PM

One day while walking down the street, a highly successful actor's manager was tragically hit by a bus and died. His soul arrived up in heaven where he was met at the Pearly Gates by St. Peter himself.

"Welcome to Heaven," said St. Peter. "Before you get settled in, though, it seems we have a problem. You see, strangely enough, we've never once had an actor's manager make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in." said the manager.

"Well, I'd like to, but I have higher orders. What we're going to do is let you have a day in Hell and a day in Heaven and then you can choose whichever one you want to spend an eternity in."

"Actually, I think I've made up my mind, I would prefer to stay in Heaven", said the manager.

"Sorry, we have rules."

And with that St. Peter put the manager in an elevator and it went down-down-down to hell. The doors opened and he found himself stepping out on to the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and standing in front of him were all his friends - fellow managers that he had worked with - and they were all dressed in evening wear and cheering for him. They ran up and kissed him on both cheeks and they talked about old times. They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where he enjoyed a delicious steak and lobster dinner. He met the Devil who was actually a really nice guy with lots of hot-looking friends and he had a great time telling jokes and dancing. He was having such a good time that before he knew it, it was time to leave.

Everybody shook his hand and waved good-bye as he got on the elevator. The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at the Pearly Gates and he found St. Peter waiting for him.

"Now it's time to spend a day in heaven," he said. So he spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds and playing the harp and singing. He had a great time and before he knew it his 24 hours were up and St. Peter came and got him.

"So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity," he said.

The manager paused for a second and then replied, "Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, Heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in Hell." So St. Peter escorted him to the elevator and again he went down-down-down back to Hell.

When the doors of the elevator opened he found himself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. He saw his friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks.

The Devil came up to him and put his arm around him.

"I don't understand," stammered the manager, "yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and danced and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable." The Devil looked at him and smiled.

"Yesterday we were pitching to you; today you're a client."

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:12 AM

Great story Justa.

I use an agent for most "commercial" gigs (usually that means a business Convention who want entertainment) and generally my pay is about 4 to 5 times what I'd make for a folk gig. When I worked in bars, my agent would take 10% and occasionally 15% as commission. My experience was that the majority of agents were completely unscrupulous, and simply saw that as part of doing business.....

......but....keep in mind that the agent is the one who makes contacts, does the paper work, and often has to work with musicians who can be terribly unreliable. Sort of like Cops and politicians.....the ideals are good at the beginning, but after a while they just get hardened.

I honestly think that with the net you can make as many contacts as you need these days for gigs. At least try it first....or hunt around for an agent who's musicians are happy ...there ARE some good ones out there.

Rick.

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: DougR
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:56 AM

Charcloth: I think if you are considering a local agent, the best thing to do would be to talk to other musicians who are on the agent's list. They would likely be happy to tell you what their experience has been.

The national organizations (William Morris, etc.) have a code of ethics and I think they pretty well stick to them. It is very difficult to get with one of those agencies, however, unless you have already been very successful. In other words, get big and they are interested in you (chicken or the egg).

If possible I would suggest you find a local agent that does not have too large of a list of clients. You want them to market you, and if they have too many they might concentrate on what they consider to be "sure winners" and neglect the unknowns.

As Rick points out, a good agent can do a lot for you. They book dates, negotiate fees, take care of the paper work including distributing publicity, etc.

Someone mentioned (English Jon) that he receives the pay for the gig and the agent bills him for his fee. I think that might be a bit unusual. I think in most instances the venue or promoter pays the manager, he takes his cut and the talent is paid by the manager. Things may have changed since I was involved, but that's the way it worked when I was active in the entertainment business. I think if you can find an agent that would agree to the arrangement English Jon has you would have the best of both worlds, assuming the agent did a good job for you.

DougR

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: Charcloth
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 06:04 PM

Thanks for the advice. I guess it's sort of the old saying "Buyer beware"

Subject: RE: talent agencies
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 06:43 PM

.......especially if the doors open and there's a golf course and............

Great story JP!!

Spaw