Origins: Kevin Barry

Subject: RE: lyrics: Kevin Barry
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:36 AM

Barry WAS hiding under a truck - a woman spectator pointed his presence out to the Army, afraid that he would be run over. Barry certainly was regarded as a hero by the vast majority of Irish people, especially in the "28 Counties"!

Re Beachcomber's comment about the youngest soldier to die in the War of Indep, I can't recall now where I read that. Maybe I was misinformed and mistaken. Barry's youth was certainly a major factor in the campaign to have him spared.

For a balanced account of the incident see a book called "Hanged for Ireland" by Tim Carey (an American).

Subject: RE: lyrics: Kevin Barry
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 07:58 AM

Tim Carey argues that if Barry had recognised the court, which he didn't, and taken a lawyer, and the best were available to him, he would almost certainly have been found not guilty. He was charged only with the killing of Private Whitehead, of which he was demonstrably not guilty: his gun had jammed and he hadn't fired a shot. However, the judge took the view that he was one of the "killer gang" and guilty by association. This however, he was not charged with. A decent lawyer could have driven a Chieftain tank through that. However, Barry's Republican principles prevented him from recognising the court. Throughout the trial, he sat twiddling his thumbs, showing no interest in the proceedings: his way of saying, "This is all illegitimate".

Re his "torture": he was roughly handled but not beaten. He did have his arms severely twisted and wore a sling during the trial. Was this torture? If so, it was mild compared to what some other IRA men suffered, for example, having teeth and finger and toenails ripped off with pliers (prongs).

Re failing his exams: he was arrested before he could take the resit. The attack took place at 11 a.m. Barry's resit was at 2 p.m. the same day. He believed he could handle both, which was fairly typical of his swashbuckling attitude. When he failed to turn up, because he was in Mountjoy Prison, he was deemed to have failed.

He had spent too much time drinking, dancing, playing rugby and hurley, and engaged in IRA activity, to do much by way of study. In July he came up to Dublin, from the family farm in Co. Carlow, to work for the exams. However, he didn't: "Had a helluva fortnight, I was drunk every night".

So, he would probably have failed anyway, as by his own admission, in letters to pals, "I have an exam this day week and I know fuck all".

Source: Tim Carey, who has studied the original documentation.

On 14 October 2001, Kevin Barry and nine other IRA men executed during the period were disinterred from the Joy and reburied, 9 in Glasnevin, 1 near his home in Tipperary. Kevin Barry's remains are in Glasnevin Cemetery.

Subject: RE: lyrics: Kevin Barry
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:46 PM

Kendall said:

to him, Barry was a hero. However, I also discussed it with Tommy Makem over dinner, and he said Barry was a hiding under a truck.

I don't see any necessary conflict. If a hero finds himself grossly outnumbered, and he without a functioning weapon, it would be folly not to hide, methinks. And doing the reasonable thing under that set of circumstances is hardly unheroic.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: lyrics: Kevin Barry
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 05:46 AM

It was a terrible thing to do to a young man or anybody come to that. I think I learned the song from Lonnie Donnegan. It is still requested quite a bit.

A friend of mine who is very cagey about publicity was doing a gig in Dublin way back, and he got this song requested.   He agreed to do it in the second set.

Before he went on again he was approached by some members of the Barry family including Kevin's mother. She asked him not to sing it as she regarded the whole song as a lie. She said he was no more than kid when it happened and, the poor chap was dragged to his death across the prison yard screaming.

I was not surprised when at the time of the disinterrment, one the Batrry family was interviewed and dismissed it as a public house song.

And yet how many of us song writers would give our eye teeth to come up with something so memorable.

Subject: RE: lyrics: Kevin Barry
From: Big Tim
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 06:22 AM

An interesting little aside: Patrick "Raglan Road" Kavanagh's wife was an aunt of Kevin Barry, Katherine Moloney.

Subject: Lyr Add: KEVIN BARRY (Terrence Ward)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 03:16 PM

Conflicting claims of authorship have been made in this thread:

The Clancys state, in the liner notes to 'The Rising of the Moon', but with no source given for that info, that the song was written by "Terrence Ward of the Irish Times".

Fergus tells us it was written by his great-uncle Peter Ellis, according to information handed down form his grandfather via his father.

Martin Ryan's recollection is that it originated in Glasgow anonymously, again with no source given but with internet evidence for widespread agreement on this.

Are they all talking about the same song, namely the one starting "In Mountjoy gaol one Monday morning"? If so, how can these claims be reconciled? Any suggestions?

The Clancys do mean this song. Their lyrics are shorter than all of those quoted above, for what reasons I don't know:

KEVIN BARRY
(Terrence Ward / Trad)

                Chorus:
                    Another martyr for old Erin
                    Another murder for the crown
                    The British laws may crush the Irish
                    But cannot keep their spirits down

In Mountjoy gaol one Monday morning
High upon the gallows tree
Kevin Barry gave his young life
For the cause of liberty
But a lad of eighteen summers
Yet no true man can deny
As he walked to death that morning
He proudly held his head on high

Just before he faced the hangman
In his dreary prison cell
The British soldiers tortured Barry
Just because he would not tell
The names of all his brave companions
And other things they wished to know
Turn informer or we'll kill you
Kevin Barry answered, No

(Clancy Bros & Tommy Makem, The Rising of the Moon, 1956, to the - slightly modified - tune of the sea song 'Rolling Home')

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Kevin Barry
From: GUEST,ed cunningham
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 06:30 PM

The tune to Kevin Barry was used to write a blugrass song in the US called The Legend of the Rebel Soldier.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Kevin Barry
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 12:28 PM

To the air used with "Will My Soul Pass Through Ireland".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Kevin Barry
From: Effsee
Date: 16 Mar 12 - 12:43 AM

Big Al..."A friend of mine who is very cagey about publicity was doing a gig in Dublin way back, and he got this song requested.   He agreed to do it in the second set.

Before he went on again he was approached by some members of the Barry family including Kevin's mother. She asked him not to sing it as she regarded the whole song as a lie..."

"including Kevin's mother"...???

It must have been a very "way back" if KB died in 1920!!!