Help: Need a new way of playing

Subject: Need a new way of playing
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 09:01 PM

I'm looking for something new in guitar playing. I've been playing for years, and am a pretty fair hand of a finger-picker (at least for an amateur). But I've had a rekindling of interest in singing (American Folk primarily), and I'm finding I want a guitar style that is less obtrusive, rather enhancing and supporting the singing without calling much attention to itself. I've developed tasteful accompaniments (to my ear anyway) for some songs through simple picking, or sometimes simple licks and strums with thumb and/or nail with a nice touch, or combinations of both. But I feel there must be so much more I could be doing with simple rhythm variations and such, always supporting and enhancing without being showy. I want my guitar work to be so good that the listener hardly notices it, yet it's wonderfully enhancing to my singing (which needs all the enhancing it can get). Thanks in advance for any help, book recommendations, advice. Best to all,

Andrew

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 09:05 PM

Andrew, how delightful to have an opportunity to reinvent yourself as a player... like falling in love with a whole new instrument, I would imagine.

There have been some great discussions along the lines you are suggesting. I wish I could recall the thread titles easily, and lay them all here for you to see... maybe someone else will be able to find some of them. And I will look tomorrow.

But I think one question has to be-- and only you can answer it-- what new music do you want to play-- what's exciting to you as a musician right now? And what sort of palying style would best support that? Well, it's more than one question... but maybe a line of thought worth taking before plunging into technique?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 09:09 PM

For what you want to achieve, there are two performers above all who can inspire you. Martin Simpson and Jack Williams. They both have websites.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Jeep man
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 11:15 PM

Andrew, Susan gives good advice. She is an ol SWEETIE.

Pick what sounds good to you.Chances are others will like it too.

Remember, us amatuers are all pickin and singing for ourselves, our enjoyment and satisfaction. If others like it, so much the better. Jeep Man

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Cappuccino
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 03:18 AM

You say 'less obtrusive', so can I offer a suggestion? I recently discovered Taize, the music of French monks, which is incredibly simple in construction, and forces you into a less complex, less obtrusive style of guitar accompaniment. If you can't find any of their music, a good similar example is to try Greensleeves as a call-and-response vocal and guitar, or play the Stones' 'Lady Jane' as if you were Bach, and you had accidentally been born as a blues guitarist. It sounds bizarre, but I promise you it will lead you down routes to unobtrusive yet tasteful picking that you never thought existed! Good luck - Ian B

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 02:35 PM

I'm just coming out of a period that you describe. I wanted to change how I was doing and maybe even what I was doing as it related to music. What I found was I just needed to step back for a bit and then change my mental approach to music in general. Same old is same old. So I simply started changing how I held my pick, how hard I hit the strings, varied the tempo of songs I liked but didn't like the way I was doing them, changed the keys I sang songs in, and tried newer music as well as some even older.

I found that I, and my music, are in a constant state of evolution now. It gets strange at times because the familiar isn't so now. But I'm having a lot more fun with it and finding a passion to do what I do to my own standards. I'm a flat picker by nature/training but am beginning to fingerpick a couple of songs. Man it makes my arm ache!! But I like what I hear.

It goes back to what my brother Charlie told me once. I was wishing that I could yodel and he said, "Do it with your guitar." So now the transposing of notes and words are beginning to be more affluent in my songs.

At risk of being a thread creeper - the post on fast picking had one in it I liked. Just go with the music and song - trust that what you want will come - it just takes doing it to make it happen.

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 07:11 PM

Start from the song, not from the accompaniment. That sounds obvious, but a lot of people never do it.

Decide what the intention of each song is...Decide whether you want to sing it free or in time, fast or slow, loud or soft, decorated or plain...Learn it gradually. Unaccompanied. Take time...

All this time there should not have been a musical instrument in sight, other than perhaps to pick out the melody. Accompaniments are the last thing to think about. If you think an accompaniment will help, put in a simple one. Put it in for a musical or textual reason,not just because you wan to play your guitar.

That quote in italics comes from the introduction to a handy selection of songs called The English Folksinger published about 20 years ago, by the editors Sam Richards and Tish Stubbs. I think it says it well.

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 12:01 AM

I'se a OL' sweetie? Huh, I'se jes' half ripe! *G*

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: dwditty
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 10:05 AM

Try playing songs differently each time. Our tendency is to learn a song cold and do it that way all the time. Get someplace alone and try out some real differences...see Norton1 above. If its fast, do it slow. Try making it real bluesy. Capo up five frets. Once you are comfortable with big changes, play for people as much as possible. I use Paltalk to accomplish this. Folks there are generally appreciative, and many comment on liking to hear a familiar song done very differently. Keeps it all fresh.

dw

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 11:10 AM

Susan, you're sweet and sour. :)

Alex

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 11:32 AM

I don't know about all this--I don't know how anybody can answer this without knowing what sort of accompaniments Andrew is playing in the first place--Murray, you have amazing confidence--without hearing him play, or at least getting a good acount of what he is playing, I couldn't have told him whether to listen to Jimmie Rodgers or Jimmy Reed--IanB, how do you know he isn't already doing that LadyJane/Bach/Blues thing?

Most of all, I am confused by the seemingly contradictory impulses about "less abtrusive" and " I feel there must be so much more I could be doing with simple rhythm variations and such." Of course, when one comes down to a note by note consideration, the object may be obvious--but there really isn't much to go on--

Music is very exact--a definite number of notes, a clear rhythm, and precise parts--which is why it is reproduceable--the trouble here is that none of us have been given a clear enough idea of what Andrew is playing to suggest changes in it--

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: RWilhelm
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 11:51 AM

I think McGrath is right. The song is more than a vehicle for the instrument, the meaning and feeling of the song should drive the accompaniment. Very often less is more.

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 12:19 PM

Music is very exact--a definite number of notes, a clear rhythm, and precise parts.

How terribly DULL

Unless I am playing a precise Bach on the Organ or a classical concerto, my playing is NEVER the same. And even the classical pieces have variance of tonation, phrasing, interpretation, depending on my mood, energy level, playfulness and spirit of fun.

Your style is as complex as a Muzac CD in repeat mode.

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 12:27 PM

Your style is as complex as a Muzac CD in repeat mode.

As is yours Guest - Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Cappuccino
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:01 PM

Merely trying to be helpful.

- IanB

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:10 AM

Sorry to be so slow in acknowledging the helpful responses. I'm not getting much computer time these days. To try to clarify my intent, I feel every song has underlying rhythms and emotions driving it. I feel the guitar should help provide those almost without being noticed in itself. If it's flashy, it's noticed. Yet I think there is a tremendous amount of skill and feel in providing such a purely supportive accompaniment. Perhaps what I'm looking for could be called rhythm guitar, but with freedom to stray into picking when that's what works. Hard to put a finder on what it is I'm looking for. I just know for example Doc Watson is known as an instrumentalist, not as a singer. The appeal is his picking. I want to sing American Folk music for it's own sake (though I sure ain't much as a singer), and I want to accompany it with the guitar, strictly as an enhancement to the song, not for the sake of the guitar work. Been there done that in doing it for the sake of the guitar work. Now I want to do it for the sake of the uplift, feeling and personal flow of the song, with the guitar as a background partner. I do thank those who suggested sites and so forth. I'll look into it when I have time, but did want to refresh this, hoping for even more, y'know.

Andrew

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: Gary T
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:35 AM

Forgive me if this is simplistic, but my first thought is to do basic strums while words are being sung, and throw in some embellishment (a la lead riff) in the vocal pauses. It may be a few notes or a few measures or even for a number of lines of the song (taken as a break, for example). The idea would be to not have the voice and the guitar competing with each other. From that point, one might choose to do fancy picking simultaneously with the singing for certain (and few) selected passages, to give them different emphasis.

Subject: RE: Help: Need a new way of playing
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:36 PM

What I try to do is emphasize the bass notes in the chord that I'm playing. When the singing stops at the end of a phrase, I try to fill with a musical idea.

A good strong bass-chord style will carry you a long way.

Flat picking seems to do this easier than finger picking. Although Burl Ives did just fine with a bass note with the thumb and a chord plunk with three fingers.

You can play faster accompaniments with a flat pick by picking down on a bass note and up (cross picking) on the chord.

Sometimes, just strumming down on the chord on the beat is good enough.

A few tasteful bass runs create interest also.

Hope I helped some.

Frank