Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


New Ideas, Need Help. From Max

Max 08 Feb 98 - 06:27 PM
Helen 08 Feb 98 - 06:41 PM
Max 08 Feb 98 - 07:04 PM
Joe Offer 09 Feb 98 - 01:41 AM
dwditty 09 Feb 98 - 05:30 AM
Jon W. 09 Feb 98 - 10:29 AM
Max 09 Feb 98 - 10:39 AM
Jerry Friedman 09 Feb 98 - 11:56 AM
Max 09 Feb 98 - 12:11 PM
Max 09 Feb 98 - 12:13 PM
Joe Offer 09 Feb 98 - 02:38 PM
Max 09 Feb 98 - 04:18 PM
RS 09 Feb 98 - 08:42 PM
RS 09 Feb 98 - 08:47 PM
RS 09 Feb 98 - 08:53 PM
Max 09 Feb 98 - 10:16 PM
Max 09 Feb 98 - 10:17 PM
Joe Offer 09 Feb 98 - 11:40 PM
Max 10 Feb 98 - 01:06 AM
Max 11 Feb 98 - 11:59 PM
Joe Offer 12 Feb 98 - 12:55 AM
Jon W. 12 Feb 98 - 10:15 AM
Bill D 12 Feb 98 - 11:34 AM
Max 12 Feb 98 - 01:31 PM
13 Feb 98 - 12:32 PM
alison 13 Feb 98 - 07:39 PM
Dan Mulligan 13 Feb 98 - 08:49 PM
Will 14 Feb 98 - 12:49 PM
RS 18 Feb 98 - 01:06 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 08 Feb 98 - 06:27 PM

RS made a good suggestion that we create categories that are currently dealt with in threads such as Lyric Requests.

Here's my plan: I can create a set of consistent categories to identify quickly and search for exclusively for both threads and messages. When creating a thread you can choose an optional category for your message. The same goes for messages that you post within threads, independent of the thread name and category. This should help us with messages that are better suited fot other threads than which they appear.

Categories for both that I have thought of are:

Lyric Requests Technical/Computer Help Search Tips Site Tips etc.

Thought you all may help me with this idea and with some categories. As the forum grows in both age and size, we must continue to enhance the organization of it. This plan will allow us to look at threads in yet another dimension. If individual messages and threads are categorized, a thread of threads (ie. Lyr Req:) is created and viewable across the plain of the standard forum. Dynamic threads, if you will. This will help to keep older, yet very important threads and messages to remain at your fingertips and should reduce redundancy.

I am planning to allow for messages and threads that are already in the database to be categorized as well. I will start, as with other things, with a group of volunteers, by adding the option of categorization of messages and threads, as well as the ability to create new categories, at every step of the standard forum.

Eventually, you, as members will be categorized and classified and we will be able to alert you to a new thread of message we know you would enjoy, or add a thread to your tracer when your name is mentioned or the writer specifies to alert you to it.

As far as I see it, at the rate we are going and the time we are willing to allow it, in 20 years there will be a ton of data here, and it better be managable. I don't want this to be just a resource for your interests, but your notebook too. If we enhance personal pages and the forum enough, we have created an excelent collective tool of research in this interest of ours.

Any thoughts?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Helen
Date: 08 Feb 98 - 06:41 PM

Hi Max

This is very far-seeing of you, and when you get it sorted out technically etc and it is fully operational we will all be worshipping a virtual statue of you, next to the statues of the other DT founders of course.

I just realised that I am responding to your fantastic suggestion from the ex-librarian sector of my brain. There is a wealth of information on these pages and within the forum, and there is much more info where that came from. To have the foresight to see the *potential* chaos of unorganised information, and to have the ability to organise the information to make it as effectively accessible as possible shows the workings of a great mind. :-)

Go for it, and I am prepared to give as much help as I can, in whatever way I can, to make it work.

To start with, I'll spend a bit of time looking at the threads to see what categories make sense to me (from an ex-librarian's perspective).

Helen

"As far as I see it, at the rate we are going and the time we are willing to allow it, in 20 years there will be a ton of data here, and it better be managable. I don't want this to be just a resource for your interests, but your notebook too. If we enhance personal pages and the forum enough, we have created an excelent collective tool of research in this interest of ours."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 08 Feb 98 - 07:04 PM

I think that a thread and a message could be in more than one category. THis will really allow us to be 3 dimensional with our data. Makes it all the harder to program though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 01:41 AM

Sounds good, Max. I think we need to be careful not to get TOO organized. I think our relaxed, friendly, disorganized atmosphere here adds to the creative spirit of the forum - and I think we have created something truly wonderful. Categorizing and cataloging messages, particularly old ones, would be a good way to preserve what we have created.
-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: dwditty
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 05:30 AM

You're really on to something. The trick is in creating categories. For example, should Lyr Req be broken down to sub categories - Celtic, Blues, etc? I suggest so.

On further thought, Joe Offer's suggestion to remain "disorganized" does have an appeal - I can't count the times I have become very interested in a thread that goes against the grain of any previous interests I may have had. So...Let's categorize the threads (from multiple views, where appropriate) but also provide the ability to bring up the threads as we do now - in date sequence across a selected window of time.

Let me know how I can help. I think many of us feel a debt to you, MAX, and would want to help in any way we can.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Jon W.
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 10:29 AM

Amen to dwditty's suggestion of keeping the present view while adding another layer of categorization. Some categories I would like to see: lyric requests, lyric postings (both broken down by genre), tune postings (again by genre?), and discography information.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 10:39 AM

Yes, you all have points. The way I have it imagined, the categorization would be totally optional and invisible if you choose it to be so. As with all the changes I make, I will always preserve its original functionality and appearance.

Categories within categories... That will take some thinking about. I suppose that would not be too difficult seeing as threads and messages can have more than one category. So a Lyr Req can be categorized such as well as by style. Then messages within could be categorized too. Hmm... should work on it this week, so I should have some demo's available to play with.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 11:56 AM

Some categories (based on what people have written already):
Lyric requests, music requests ("Check all that apply")

Lyric additions, tune additions

Requests for information about songs, about recordings, about the music scene ("Where can I find Welsh choral singing in Gnadenhutten, Ohio?"), about people

Announcements of events

Requests for computer help, for musical help

Requests for songs on a certain theme (Halloween, homeless people, etc.)

Togetherness (fantasy folk circle, favorite busking experience, etc.) This one may not need a label.

Requests for lesbians

The menu definitely needs the instruction "Check all that apply". If you want to get really fancy, you could provide a flag that someone could change when the request has been answered. This would have the disadvantages that someone would need to monitor it and take action, and that people might skip threads with answered requests, not realizing how much interesting information they could find.

That's actually a problem with the whole category system. So like everyone else, I agree with dwditty about keeping the present view. (Could people also add category markers if they gave new kinds of information in the thread?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 12:11 PM

I also want to create a system of uploading music files, midi, wav, au, and Real Audio. I am going to create a file catalog of music that coresponds with the forum. I do not really like the binary midi files in messages, though I recognize its importance. Just looking for an alternative.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 12:13 PM

Just added the ability to add threads to your tracer from within the messages page as well as from the search. This should help with older threads that you would like to "bookmark" for easy access. It's still new, so try it out and let me know if it's working well.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 02:38 PM

Hi, Max - Alison started a thread called "St. Patrick's Day favourites." Although she doesn't spell "favorites" properly (grin), her sentiments are in the right place. Well, what I'd like to hear for St. Patrick's day is Alan and Alison singing any Irish song they'd like to sing for us. We have several other accomplished performers among us - it would be nice to have a page for them, so we could click on Alison, or Art, or Alan, or maybe even people whose names start with other letters, and actually hear them sing a song or two. Sorry - I'm not willing to contribute a recording myself - I have to be seen live to be appreciated....

Oh, and one other thing - is it possible to to have a link to our links page that's available to all visitors? Right now, the only way to get to the links page is through our personal pages, and new people who aren't registered can't access those great links we've posted.

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 04:18 PM

Done Joe, non-members can now get to the links from their threads page. Will include the link elseware as well.

I would be very very happy to start inlcuding audio and video to these pages. I want more multi in this media.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: RS
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 08:42 PM

Speaking of organization ... Haven't been able to figure out how (or if) my Tracer page is organized. Doesn't seem to be alphabetical, or by date, or anything. And new items show up somewhere in the middle, apparently unpredictably.

Any clues???

[ Other than this, all I can say is - WOW!!! - to what this forum is becoming, as it constantly improves! ]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: RS
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 08:47 PM

BTW, I have been curious about how the Tracer actually works. I know a tiny little bit about cookies, & I assume that they are involved somehow, but I would be very interested to know more.

If it's not too complicated, can someone explain this?

(If it's exceedingly technical, never mind.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: RS
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 08:53 PM

(Well sorry to be sending several posts in a row ... should finish thinking before I click "send".)

One minor point for consistency's sake: On each thread listing, the links between messages say "Forum Home", whereas the link at they very end of the listing says "Conference Thread Listing". Yet as far as I can tell they both go to the same place. Am I missing some difference? Or could they be renamed, with the same name?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: How Does the Tracer Work
From: Max
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 10:16 PM

RS: What do you mean? I don't see any "Conference Thread Listing".

(snicker snicker)

RS: (you asked for it) "How Does the Tracer Work"

The Forum:

If you look up at the URL or Location spot on your browser, you will see the threadID and maybe messageID and some other stuff. If you had the wherewithall to memorize all the threadID's (3500) and all the messageID's (20,000) then you could avoid all these pesky links and type the message you want to go to just like above. Every thread and every message has a unique number which identifies it's contents. If you made a crosstab spreadsheet or query (cross index) the threadID with the messageID, you get which messages are in which thread which makes up this forum. In the background of this system, I pass the numbers around so you don't have to memorize them all. Sometimes they are in the URL on your browser and some are hidden and in forms. All content in this Forum is dynamically accessed from the threads database based on the queries that are hidden in the HTML of these pages. If it were not database driven and dynamic there would be over 5 million pages on this site.

The Tracer:

The tracer is simply a table in the threads database that holds little more than your memberID (your cookie) and the threadID that you wanted traced. When you go to the tracer page, we do one query of all the records in the trace table with your memberID (cookie) on it. We then do a query for each threadID of yours in the trace table to show you your own personal thread system. It's quite simple really. Wouldn't you say?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 10:17 PM

Oh, I also just figured out how to share our multimedia files and automate the hyperlinks to them so you can automatically upload and include a link to any type of sound, image or video files (within reason of course) just by browsing your hard drive for the file. Wait till you see this. I wanted to find a better way than posting the crazy code in red (though a great idea and service) and cutting and pasting. Maybe we'll actually get some real music, not just digital midi, with this system.

I am very excited about this one, we should see it soon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 11:40 PM

Are you showing off again, Max? Did you put in those sound effects that I get when I go back to the "Forum Home"/"Conference Thead Listing" page - or is that my MSIE talking back to me again?
Cute, Max. But I don't want to hear the Avon Lady - I wanna hear Alison and Alan sing.
-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 01:06 AM

It's coming joe. The sound you hear is an alert. I was just about to tell you about it but you are so fast. I added one embedded midi file to play a chord type single note when someone is in the chat room. I embeded a second 2 note midi file when you have an active personal message. I am experimenting with it tonight. I will make it an optional thing soon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 11 Feb 98 - 11:59 PM

Wait till you see this! I have been working on a new forum for many different reasons, not just the mudcat.

Please take a look at it. It has full multimedia uploading support, and the beginning of categories. Both Threads and Messages can have multiple categories. I will be adding some advanced searching based on the categories soon, so you will can see, for instance, only Lyric Requests.

I am still working on it so some features may be disabled. Feel free to play with it. If you upload any files, make sure it's reasonabls size.

Oh, and you'll have to join that one seperately to see it all. It's worth it. Just fill out the minimum amount to get a memebership. Or reset you cookie with my email address: mspiegel@onstagemedia.com.

You can find it at http://www.onstagemedia.com/forum/threads.cfm. Please let me know what you think.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Feb 98 - 12:55 AM

Well, I tried the new forum, Max, but I didn't get very far. I tried to post an "hjkl" in response to your "asdf," but I got an error message. General organization looks good, though.
-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Jon W.
Date: 12 Feb 98 - 10:15 AM

got this error trying to join:

Error Occurred While Processing Request

Error Diagnostic Information

ODBC Error Code = 37000 (Syntax error or access violation)

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access 97 Driver] Syntax error (missing operator) in query expression 'Members.MemberID ='.

Date/Time: 02/12/98 10:13:37 Browser: Mozilla/4.03 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) Remote Address: 192.43.235.18 HTTP Referer: http://www.onstagemedia.com/forum/member/EntryForm.cfm Template: C:\WEBSERVER\FORUM\MEMBER\..\COOKIEFILL.CFM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 98 - 11:34 AM

I just went there!! It works!!! wow....took me a couple of tries, but it worls! it will need a link to a bit of a 'manual' before everyone gets it...cartain fields can't be left blank..etc...and one needs to know how to navigate one's own hard drive...but this will be great!!!

(Max...we will need to know about limits on file size, etc...)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Max
Date: 12 Feb 98 - 01:31 PM

Upon Thinking about the concepts of online commuinity and global dialog in terms of the internet, we cannot deny multimedia files any longer. Limits to file size? I'm gonna leave it up to you all for now and see how it works out. I realize this is going to take up some space, but that's what its there for. Space is cheap, and this will be worth it. Besides, a Midi file posted in that crazy format should take up as much space on the machine and will keep the code out of the forum and the space outside the database. Gonna build an interface to the files as well, so they can be browsed independent of the forum. It's gonna take some time to debug, cause there is a lot of complicated routines involved, and non-members don't see any of the new cool stuff. Membership has it's rewards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From:
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 12:32 PM

I sure hope this all works soon!

http://www.onstagemedia.com/forum/threads.cfm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: alison
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 07:39 PM

Hi Joe

Loved "Pinball wizard".

slainte

Alison


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Dan Mulligan
Date: 13 Feb 98 - 08:49 PM

Max, I think the categories idea is a great one. As this forum grows it becomes more and more difficult to identify subject matter that is of interest. I for one would enjoy being able to choose a category that interests me and looking at threads that are related to it without having to sift through the myriad of threads that do not interest me at all. Dan Mulligan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: Will
Date: 14 Feb 98 - 12:49 PM

Nice toy. The attachments sound great.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: New Ideas, Need Help. From Max
From: RS
Date: 18 Feb 98 - 01:06 AM

Hey! Cool! Apropos my post, above, of 09 Feb 98, concerning the organization of the Tracer page ... just looked over my Tracer again, & it's all neatly in order now, by the date of the most recent posting to each thread! Makes sense to me!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 19 April 1:41 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.