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BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?

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Steve Parkes 05 Oct 01 - 07:34 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 05 Oct 01 - 07:42 AM
mooman 05 Oct 01 - 08:26 AM
GUEST 05 Oct 01 - 08:29 AM
The Walrus at work 05 Oct 01 - 08:34 AM
Linda Kelly 05 Oct 01 - 10:00 AM
Fiolar 05 Oct 01 - 10:07 AM
ScottyG 05 Oct 01 - 10:08 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 05 Oct 01 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,ej cookie gone astray again 05 Oct 01 - 12:27 PM
Wyrd Sister 05 Oct 01 - 01:37 PM
Mrs.Duck 05 Oct 01 - 01:45 PM
Paul from Hull 05 Oct 01 - 01:56 PM
alanabit 05 Oct 01 - 02:41 PM
Paul from Hull 05 Oct 01 - 02:49 PM
Paul from Hull 05 Oct 01 - 02:54 PM
Gareth 05 Oct 01 - 03:04 PM
Joe Offer 05 Oct 01 - 03:37 PM
Eric the Viking 05 Oct 01 - 04:00 PM
Bernard 05 Oct 01 - 04:03 PM
Eric the Viking 05 Oct 01 - 04:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Oct 01 - 04:05 PM
Jon Freeman 05 Oct 01 - 04:06 PM
Mr Red 05 Oct 01 - 04:22 PM
Justa Picker 05 Oct 01 - 05:37 PM
alanabit 05 Oct 01 - 05:54 PM
Susanne (skw) 05 Oct 01 - 06:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Oct 01 - 07:29 PM
Paul from Hull 05 Oct 01 - 07:34 PM
Paul from Hull 05 Oct 01 - 07:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Oct 01 - 07:39 PM
Gareth 05 Oct 01 - 07:55 PM
Gareth 05 Oct 01 - 08:03 PM
Paul from Hull 05 Oct 01 - 08:12 PM
Gareth 05 Oct 01 - 08:23 PM
Cobble 05 Oct 01 - 08:43 PM
AliUK 05 Oct 01 - 09:24 PM
alanabit 06 Oct 01 - 05:59 AM
Scotland the brave 06 Oct 01 - 06:31 AM
Lanfranc 06 Oct 01 - 08:33 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Oct 01 - 09:01 AM
banjomad (inactive) 06 Oct 01 - 10:06 AM
Gareth 06 Oct 01 - 10:22 AM
Cllr 06 Oct 01 - 01:25 PM
John MacKenzie 06 Oct 01 - 01:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Oct 01 - 01:34 PM
Cllr 06 Oct 01 - 01:42 PM
Cllr 06 Oct 01 - 01:52 PM
catspaw49 06 Oct 01 - 01:53 PM
Paul from Hull 06 Oct 01 - 01:56 PM

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Subject: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:34 AM

OK--let's talk about Mrs Thatcher. This is carried over from the Politics: Tony Blair's speech thread.

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:42 AM

The old git has just managed to 'handbag' herself !! Thank god she's not in charge anymore she'd have compulsory identity cards for muslims. The only positive thing is that every time she opens her trap it does the Tories harm


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: mooman
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:26 AM

I disliked Mrs "Milk Snatcher" Thatcher (referring to the discontinuation of milk at school for young children when she was Education Secretary) well before she ever became leader.

I cannot think of anything she did which I could consider good for the UK.

Perhaps the very worst thing she did was to engender a atmosphere of "selfishness" and "self-interest" amongst a very large part of the population during her tenure which has been very hard to shake off since, either by John Major's government or Tony and his cronies.

I think Tony performed fairly well in his recent speeches but, like others have said he is definitely a "control freak" and rather intolerant of any left-wing views within the Labour party. I personally regret the loss of some of these "old labour" values. There was nothing wrong with many of these principles but, unfortunately, a number of rather extreme individuals gave "old labour" a very bad name back in the 70s and 80s which allowed Mrs Thatcher somewhat of a free rein.

She is well past her "sell by" date now and I believe she would serve us all better by keeping her more ridiculous and ill-considered views to herself.

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:29 AM

the belgrano. 300 odd murdered.

ej


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:34 AM

Guest,

Hardly "murdered", it was a little situation called a "War" (and before we get the "it was sailing in the wrong direcetion" - ever heard of "keeping station") - any way, sinking the Belgrano persuaded the Argentinian Navy to keep their Carrier in port and therefore may have saved a lot more lives.

That said, I think her last statement just proves that the old bitch has finally gone ga-ga and should be shipped away to a suitable home asap.

Walrus


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 10:00 AM

I can't talk about that women coherently -my anger at the damage she systematically caused this country over her period of office is beyond estimation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Fiolar
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 10:07 AM

Thatcher and her crew as most people know only endgendered total self interest and balls to everybody else. As a former member of the nursing profession, I and many of my colleagues had to apply for our jobs on at least two occasions when so-called reorganisations tore the Health Service apart. Instead of concentrating on the job at hand, ie, care of patients, many had to worry about whether they had a job. She can now go around the world as an "honoured guest" and earn thousands in fees for speaking at dinners and such like. As for the "society" aspect, I hate to think of the number of hospitals that were closed and the occupants put into "care in the community" which meant for many, walking around the streets all day and sleeping in a doorway at night. The lucky few ended up in prison where at least they had shelter and a warm meal. As for putting her in a home why the hell should the residents of the home have to put up with her?


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: ScottyG
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 10:08 AM

I heard this in a pub (in Scotland) during the Thatcher occupation of 10 Downing Street.

Britain started out as a KINGdom, with KINGS ruling the lands. Then Britain succumbed to the Romans and became part of the EMPIRE, thus falling under the rule of the EMPEROR. They sent the Romans packing and once again became a KINGDOM with KINGS (and queens.) Now, though the Monarchy is preserved, the Royals do not govern, so Britain is not a KINGdom, nor and EMPIRE, it's a country. (Emphasis on the first syllable, sans the "o".)

SG


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 10:42 AM

I can think of several comments but, unlike the Baroness and in a spirit of Quakerly tolerance I will forbear to post them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: GUEST,ej cookie gone astray again
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 12:27 PM

war is murder. anyway, the boat was outside the exclusion zone. even if it had been sailing towards it, would that make it ok? not to mention the fact that the whole falklands crisis was an unescessary exercise in political chicanery. honestly, would it matter if the falklands were under argenine rule? it would have been cheaper to re-house the inhabitants of the island and give them SIGNIFICANT compensation. a war never makes economic sense, and don't tell me it was for the good of the people. social welfare never figured that highly on thatcher's agenda.

ej


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:37 PM

The only political comment I ever heard my exceptionally tolerant and non-swearing mother utter was to refer to "that bloody woman"!


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:45 PM

The woman who systematically dismantled Britain and sold it off to the highest bidder with her foot on the throat of any one who dared challenge her - no I have no comment!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:56 PM

I'm ashamed to admit that I voted for her in '79...on the basis that I thought it was about time we had a Woman P.M.

...shame we didnt get one


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 02:41 PM

I never did know all the facts about the Belgrano, but then again, the Foreign Office policy of the time hardly helped them to emerge. I am poorly placed to judge whether or not it was a legitimate act of war. However, the government's unseemly haste in prosecuting Clive Ponting and other botched attempts at cover ups - Spycatcher, Sarah Tidsall affair and the opening lies after the killing of IRA members in Gibraltar, did not increase my confidence in the information we got from them. At any rate, there was no reason to take much satisfaction in the sinking of an obsolete training vessel and the drowning of three hundred people - many of whom were probably teenage cadets. It's a bit like gloating over a terrorist attack on a youth club.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 02:49 PM

Sorry, but it was not "an obsolete training vessel", Alanabit.

& I honestly didnt see much gloating about it, other than the callous & infantile banner headline in the 'Sun'


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 02:54 PM

..sorry, I meant to also say that other than those 2 points, I agreed with just about everything in your post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 03:04 PM

Long may she survive and rant !!! To remind us what damage she did.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 03:37 PM

It seems to me that in the 1980's Thatcher and Reagan were the heralds of the death of liberalism. It seemed to die at the same time in many places in the world - Germany, Israel, Canada, and even to some extent in Scandanavia. Liberalism has come back to some extent since Thatcher and Reagan left us, but it's it's a new, business-oriented kind of liberalism, typified by Blair and Clinton - and I'm not entirely comfortable with it. I still call myself a Social Democrat, and I see no place in this world today where democratic socialism has a home.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:00 PM

Thatcher, Thatcher the milk snatcher
Taking the milk from childrens mouths
I remember the demo's well Richard-went on about 6.

Margret Thatcher, her money, her brand of politics, her philospohy of greed and self centredness and all her cronies should be given to the people who she most shat upon for them to do unto her. The poll tax, the removal and destruction of society, the dismantling of the welfare state has left us in Britain with a legacy of want and need. profits not people, money not minds and bodies. We haven't even begun to rebuild a tiny amount of what she killed off.

I hope she rots-better still I would love to have her live long enough to see a new Britain, where freedom,equality and tolerance become the norm. Where the rich have their greedy gains removed and the population have equality of opportuninty and the help they need to have a fairer life.

personally I wouldn't even waste my shit on her or her cronies!


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:03 PM

Silly old cow will be expressing dismay that the relatives of the innocent passengers on the ill-fated aircraft haven't apologised, next... or the aircraft manufacturers... or airline pilots...

Never open your mouth until your brain is in gear!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:04 PM

I say chaps,What I really meant to say was. I don't really like her or her brand of politics. (Of course if I had gone to Eton and Winchester I would think she is STILL A C..T and F.....G bitch)

Terrrrribly sorry, but there you have it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:05 PM

The thing about Thatcher is that after her pretty well every other politician looks quite human. That's the best thing about her - and it's the worst thing as well..

I have a feeling that she's blown it now though. My big worry was that Blair would see her as some kind of a role model for making war, in the way he has in other ways at times. I don't think he will now. Gladstone is the man, it seems.

I think democratic socialism might start sneaking back in now, Joe. De-regulation of everything fuelled by big business is looking a bit sick right now. And the heroes of the hour are the very people who've been victims of cuts in funds for public services - firefighters and people like that. Tax and spend start sound quite a sensible idea now. "No such thing as society" sounds even more stupid than it did before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:06 PM

I don't know. I can't help but feel that we were in a mess, the extreme left had gone too far and someone like Thatcher was probably a good thing for a very short term but then we should have got rid of her.

Somehow fear of what another Labour government might do seemed to over-rule any realisation as to what Thatcher would do. I think it was this same fear that paved the way for Tony Blair to strip labour of some of its traditional values.

As for Thatcher herself, I never liked her and I love mooman's "well past her sell by date..."

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:22 PM

You know. My rose-coloured spectacles. I always called them my Maggie Thatcher glasses (both pairs are prescription lenses). I don't need them now - or do I?


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 05:37 PM

A comedian friend of mine had a great bit way back in the early 80's, when for a brief moment in time Canada had a scape-goat/fall-person, Kim Campbell to bear the brunt of Brian Mulroney and the Conservative Party's impending election decimation. (Mulroney resigned just before the election and Kim Campbell became the temporary prime minister and sacraficial lamb.)

His line was: "I've finally figured out WHO Kim Campbell is. She's the female version of Margaret Thatcher." (I always loved that joke.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 05:54 PM

I am sure if we float the question, Paul, that some other Mudcatter will refresh our memories. From what I recall, the Belgrano was a large, but rather old ship which the Argentines purchased after it had become surplus to the US navy's requirements. It was mainly used for training recruits. (That is if my admittedly fallible memory serves me well!) Its wake may have endangered any passing canoeists, but up against practically any Royal Navy vessel which was present at the time - let alone HMS Conqueror, it represented about as much threat to our ships as a canary would to any self respecting cat. I am going to go along with Joe, McGrath and Eric, because I think they are all seeing the world from a similar standpoint to myself. I can appreciate what John Freeman is driving at, but I have to ask myself if he has bought into the newspapers reading of seventies Britain. I was a NUPE shop steward in the seventies when a Labour government full of honest triers - David Ennals, Jim Callaghan, Hattersley and Dennis Healey et al were trying to battle a cash strapped government through a hung Parliament at a time of world recession and OPEC induced inflation. They borrowed money from the IMF and the Shit of Persia. Effectively, the IMF ordered them to operate policies which may well have seemed too severe for the previous government (three day week etc....) Before Thatcher came to power, 84% of the wealth of our country was in the hands of 7% of the population. Margeret Thatcher proclaimed that this was not enough. If you think that her redistribution of wealth was a by product of her policies, just read her speeches - and those of Keith Joseph - before the election. Labour were then in the position of presiding over Conservative economic policies at a time when inflation was effectively cutting living standards of its own supporters still further. As an ancilliary worker in an NHS hospital I was on a basic wage of twenty pounds eighty pence per week. (Sorry - there's no pound sign - I'm using a German computer). Guess why I joined NUPE and took part in limited industrial action. Yes, things were bad in the seventies, but there were certain features of British life which only emerged later on. I do not recall seing large numbers of young beggars on the street. I do not recall race riots. I do not recall seeing abandoned council housing estates at the same time that large numbers of people were homeless. For me John, the only thing Thatcher proved was yes, it was possible to make things worse.


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Subject: LYR ADD: Targets
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 06:57 PM

A great opportunity to post another Harvey Andrews song:

TARGETS
(Harvey Andrews)

Chorus:
Call us equal, call us proud
Call yourself a liar
No matter what the people do
They'll set the target higher

You read it now, they tell you how the Lady is a leader
With hats and curls and strings of pearls, they say the people need her
She took the milk from my son John, locked it in her larder
Then said, The secret of success is - work a little harder

My girl she nurses sick and old, the builders of the nation
And then they pay a pauper's wage and tell her it's vocation
She'd love to ride the world around, to give the cups and prizes
But someone's got to lead the blind and see the cripple rises

We would have married long ago and we're still hoping one day
Two up two down and a little lawn and time to rest on Sunday
I wish the ones who kept us here could live like us and borrow
I'd place a pound for what it's worth they'd be gone tomorrow
We'd like a yacht, some rooms to spare, horses in the stable
We might as well believe that we could buy meat for the table

From Harvey's album 'Fantasies from a Corner Seat' (1975)


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:29 PM

1975. And she hadn't really got started by then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:34 PM

Certainly couldnt agree with you more re: Thatcher... screwing the country up as she did constitutes Treason in my book...

But the Belgrano, though it WAS an old WW2 vintage Cruiser, sold off by the US Navy, was a considerable threat to the Task Force, at sea or against our Troops when they went ashore.

Being that age, it was armoured, of course, something thats FAR too expensive to do in more recent years with Warships... an estimate at the time was that it would have taken, IIRC, 40 Exocet missiles to take it out of action (yes, the British also used Exocet, at the time)The ONLY thing that could have dealt with it was a torpedo...

It was manpower intensive, slow, noisy, & fuel-hungry, but still cheaper to keep in service than purchasing a new Warship (though the Argentine Navy had some new Warships too), & in fact in many ways irreplaceable anyhow, & with its armour, & its 6" (or 8", I cant remember, & too idle to look it up) guns,it was superior in some ways to modern Warships.

It WAS used as a Training Ship prior to the Invasion, yes, but those Cadets were, apparently, replaced by more experienced Crew, because it WAS intended to engage the Task Force, given the opportunity, & could, & would have caused ENORMOUS damage had it done so.

Its been alleged that Conqueror's Torpedo 'Officer' (probably a Petty Officer, actually) - the man that actually pressed the button that fired the Torpedoes that sank Belgrano, vomited over his console..so he wasnt without sentiment for the Ship....cant have been an easy thing to do....

Its a great pity that Thatcher secured her Political position with the deaths of so many - Argentine, British, & Gurkha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:38 PM

....& Suzanne, thanks for posting that song....hadnt seen it before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:39 PM

Mind you, I feel uneasy about talking about here as if she was some kind of baleful evil magician, a political version of Voldemort.

She only had power because a lot of people voted for her party, and kept on voting for her party. Never by any means a majority, but more than voted for any of the others (unlike in the case of George Bush).

I remember Danny Cohn-Bendit in 1968 when asked about how he felt as a leader of the Student Rising in France said "I'm not a leader. I'm a megaphone." I think there was a real sense in which Maggie Thatcher was a megaphone, amplifying the hates and fears and prejudices of millions of people who are still around. A bit scarey to think that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:55 PM

Alanabit and others.

I yield to no person my detestation of that bloody woman, and all she stood for. I Beg to remind the lunatic fringe on the left how thier destruction of the British Labour Party enshured that that ***** maintained power in the 1980's.

But in the intrests of historical accuracy -

The ANS "General Belgrano" (ex USN "Phoeonix") was a light Cruiser mounting 15 x 6" Guns in manuel turrets.

Escorted by 2 British built type 42 destroyesrs armed with 1 x 4.5" Automated Guns plus 4 Exocet launchers each.

Max speed about 30 knots.

Question What is the turning circle of a light cruiser - 10 ships lengths ?

Remember - it is not what the enemy is doing know but what she can do is the problem. - " Reverse Course Helmsman" In Spanish

The order was given by Admiral Woodward to HMS/S Conqueror was shadow - and if there was any difficulty sink. And no these were not Thatchers Orders, they were the orders of the man on the spot. This was done. Sorry, no submarine could have shaddowed and been imune from detection by SONAR (ASDIC) at speed over the Burnwood bank.

Now the sceptical may wonder what threat a cruiser and two missile carrying Destroyers could have been to the Royal Navy if they had got into range.

I leave that to your imagination - unless of course you categorise the Argentinian Navy as abject " Dago" cowards.

In the early 1970's there was a war between India and Pakistan - it resulted in independance for East Pakistan, now known as Bangladesh.

The Pakistani goverment sent a troop convoy escorted by three Ex USN "Fletcher" Class Destroyers (5 x 5" Guns in single turrets). The convoy was intercepted by the INS "DELHI" (ex RNZNS "Achillies") A training ship, by then carring 4 x 6" Guns in twin turrets.

BTW If you have ever seen the film the "Battle of the River Plate" The Indian Goverment lent the INS "Dehli" to the film company to play herself as the "Achillies"

The result of this Gun line battle ?

Two "Fletcher" Class DDs sunk, One "Fletcher" retired hurt, and the Troop Convoy destroyed. Not bad for a ship built in 1936 - and classified as a training ship.

I take no pleasure in death or destruction. What a pity it is that those who give the orders tend not to be on the recieving end.

But please do not distort history by suggesting that the "Belgrano" was sunk to appease that ****** blood lust.

The job was done for naval reasons, on naval orders.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:03 PM

Paul-

thank God there are two of us who think the same way over the "Belgrano"

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:12 PM

Agreed, mate...

Not that I wish to change, or influence anyone's opinions, but if we can provide information that puts things in a different perspective...


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:23 PM

Intersting fact - Falklands

HMS "Glamorgan" 1950's built Light Cruiser took an Exocet hit in the Aircraft hanger and remained on station, as an effective unit.

HMS " Sheffield" 1980's build Destroyer received one Exocet hit - and burnt.

I suppose its what you design and build for.

The Type 42's were designed to get a troop convoy from the US of A to Europe, and after that they were expendable - like the "Liberty Ship"

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cobble
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:43 PM

To put you right Gareth Glamorgan was built in the sixties a county class destroyer of which two are still on the go for a South American Navy. That was my time in the RN. She carried sea slug missiles and at the time had four 4.5 inch guns.

Cobble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: AliUK
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 09:24 PM

well. I have made my views on the bitch Thatcher known in previous threads. "Tramp the Dirt Down" by Elvis Costello ( on his Spike album) about sums up what I'm going to do when the old cow finally bites the dust. And to illustrate how she thinks just look at who she's best mates with, does the name Pinochet ring any bells. I always remember the Spitting Image sketches in which she got her political advice from her next door neighbour, an ageing and thoroughly bitter Adolf Hitler.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 05:59 AM

Thank-you Paul and Gareth for your detailed information. I am going to have to find out a bit more about this, but I can't fault the way you have backed up your arguments. I am sure you will understand my distrust of practically anything the ministries announced at the time. Still, there is plenty left on the charge sheet against "that woman".


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Scotland the brave
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 06:31 AM

She just likes to start wars, and should lock up because she's mad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 08:33 AM

I remember the photo of her walking around the industrial wasteland she and her policies created. "If you require a monument, look around you"

I remember the only IRA bomb the target of which I could even marginally approve of, and my disappointment when the bitch survived.

I remember that, during the Falklands episode, I felt rather lonely in my opposition to the whole thing. I wasn't alone, but few of my friends or colleagues at the time thought as I did.

I remember how I exulted when she was voted out of office.

In my lifetime, she is the only politician for whom I can honestly say I feel something akin to hatred, and I do not hate easily.

History might put her in perspective, catalogue the damage she did, and, to a (fortunately) lesser degree, continues to do. As usual, it depends who gets to write it.

I'm with Elvis Costello on this one!


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 09:01 AM

As I've always seen it, the danger which was averted by the sinking of the Belgrano was that a peace deal might have been hammered out.

The only people who benefited by the war were the Thatcher government. Without it, it is overwhelmingly likely that the next election would have seen her thrown out. And leaving aside the Belgrano, there wouldn't have been any invasion of the Falklands/Malvinas if cutbacks relating to the islands hadn't given the increasingly precarious Argentine generals a clear invitation to invade, on the assumption that the British government really wanted to get rid of this expensive outpost. I have always had a suspicion that this was really what was intended all along.

Actually it's not quite true that the only people who benefited from the war were Thatcher and co. The people of Argentina did as well, in that it meant they got rid of the generals.

That was the irony of that war - the best outcome for Britain would have been the defeat that was averted, and the best outcome for Argentina was the defeat that was achieved.

That's leaving aside the poor young men on both sides who were butchered. And the three civilian islanders killed by "friendly fire" by the British.


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 10:06 AM

In the normal course of events I never ever hate anyone. With Margaret Thatcher I will make an exeption, this person sent British soldiers to their death's to further her political career. Dave, formerly the Zander


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 10:22 AM

Cobble - I stand corrected on the building date for "Glamorgan" - The original design of the County Class was designated Light Cruiser, they were reclassified as Destroyers by the Admiralty to get the costs through the Treasury. The same trick was used on the I class aircraft carriers, calling them through deck cruisers.

The point was/is any warship will normally survive and operate within the limits of damage allowed in design.

The Counties were designed to take hits, the type 42's were not designed to do so to the same extent.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:25 PM

I still think she was one of the greatest prime ministers we have had.

Cllr AKA Thatcherite revolutionary


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:29 PM

It often causes me to be amazed at the amount of hatred that the name Margaret Thatcher engenders. I am not a card carrying member of any political party, but I can't find it in my heart to hate Maggie, or anybody else as much as some of our contributors seem to. What I admire about Maggie is what I admire in anybody, i.e. her ability to be true to her beliefs, right or wrong. She would never do what the New Labour (Conservative in disguise) Party has done, and abandon all her principals and betray her friends in order to curry favour with the electorate. In case anybody's interested, I waste my vote on the Scottish Nationalist Party, and no I don't agree with all of their policies either.

Jock


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:34 PM

What I admire about Maggie is what I admire in anybody, i.e. her ability to be true to her beliefs, right or wrong.

Bin Laden for example?


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:42 PM

Jock I applaud your comments, I can admire people who are dedicated to their political beliefs even if I disagree with them. Having a mutual respect gives people a greater ability to work together particularly in the political field.

Cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:52 PM

a desire to be true to ones beliefs is a good thing and should be recognised as such especially in the context of what jock was trying to say.

Mcgrath Comparing Thatcher to Bin Laden is not really understanding the comment or worse deliberatly mis representing it because of your fanatical hatred.

Cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:53 PM

Over here in the Colonies, I never could make much sense of the Falklands thing at all. The US has had enough of those to last the world a lifetime......I mean like after Grenada, where could you go to get any worse? The Reagan and Thatcher years only gave me enjoyment in my imagination. I was always hoping to hear that a security guard had caught Maggie, with a giant dildo strapped on, butt-fucking Reagan in the Oval Office.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 01:56 PM

Hmmm...think I'll leave this particular issue alone....


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