BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Fiolar
Date: 21 Oct 01 - 07:30 AM

AliUK: Thatcher didn't retire. She was booted out as leader of the Tories when they saw that there was a possibility that they would lose the election if she remained. Anyone watching at the time could see the thinly disguised tears of rage on the "lady's" face. As for her winning the election in 1979, I recall speaking to a strong Labour supporter the morning after and he was incandescent. I quote what he said. "Carlyle said that England was populated by 20 million fools. Well there are now 60 million." Don't know if the good Thomas ever said that, but it summed up what many of us thought at the time and boy were wwe proved right.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 10:32 PM

McGrath, I guess it depends on what you mean be tactally. Part of my tactics used to say never allow any side in for long enough to start developing their more extreme poilicies and hope (or hoped) that the balace would maintain some form of status quo, perhaps even with some improvements...

Overall, I guess even with those sort of tactics, we are all influenced by what we believe is right. In my case I felt that John Smith was aiming for the best balance - shame he let me down and died...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 10:09 PM

Thatcher was, as they say, the monkey. The organ grinder was the British electorate which voted to put her in and keep her in. (And that includes the majority who hated all she stood for, but weren't able to use their heads and vote tactically to get shot of her.)

I'd describe Ann Widdecombe more as a Card than a buffoon. I wouldn't want her running the country, but I wouldn't mind her as a next door neighbour. If a Thatcher was to move in, I'd move away like a shot. (If it was Tony Blair I'd probably stay put - but if I hadn't got a six-foot fence in my garden I'd put one up.)

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: AliUK
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 08:56 PM

Having a sense of humour, for example, makes Ann Widdicombe a much more appealing politician to people who disagree with her politics than Margaret Thatcher ever was.

What a funny thing to say. Widdicomb is a bufoon...but a dangerous one. Thatcher is evil, but she had a good marketing department. Thats how she got in. Right place, right time, right circumstances. She deserves to die a slow and hideous death. Thank God she retired when she did. But the Bitch still keeps on trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Roughyed
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 03:59 AM

I had the interesting experience of visiting Poland after thatcher's fall. Most Poles thought she was wonderful but hated Lech Walesa. In Britain msot people hated Thatcher by then but thought Lech Walesa was wonderful. The grass is always greener.... I remember a letter in the Guardian saying that just as people could remember what they were doing when JFK was shot, everyone could now remember what they were doing when they heard the news of Thatchers resignation - smiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:54 PM

My view is that the rightwing Labour government did far more to bring Thatcherism into office than the left wingers. And it was the antics of the same people, in and out of the Labour Party, with the breakaway of the SDP and all, that played a crucial part in keeping her in power. With the help of General Galtieri.

A lot of what was scorned as "lunatic left", on the part of Ken Livingstone for example, is now casually seen as boring old orthodox consensus.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:40 PM

DougR - Fair comment - and I grovel for misinterpreting your thoughts. Mark you, if the Tardis was available your comments would be governed by knowlege.

John - I concur entirely with your comments about the lunatic fringe - The Second Viscount Stangate and his chums have an awful lot to answer for - and you know - it would have been so easy to give up and walk away from it.

Thank God some of us in the Party fought back.

Gareth. (in Neil Kinnock mood)

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:53 PM

Uh, Gareth, please read my post again. I believe I noted that I was posting only from a position of ignorance, and was only stating a view from afar. Much afar. I don't believe I attempted to refute anyone's POV.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:29 PM

Doug, Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader vith very strong views. The problem with her is that she gave no thought to anything other than her views and people seemed not to matter - more numbers in her game than anything else.

If you were transported back, it would be better to be transported back a few years ealier so he could judge for himself how things were going before there.

In the long term, Thatcher's policies prooved to be far more damaging to many than anything that went before her but I think it unrealistic to suggest that she was the only wrong or that things were rosy before she came to power. Going back and reading Sapper's description of his memories of the 70's, one could almost argue that the "looney left" laid the foundations for the country to want someone like Thatcher - someone strong enough to take them on...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 02:29 PM

Oh my God - will the Doctor lend DougR the Tardis so that he can transport to the UK in May 1979 and the following 18 years.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 02:04 PM

Hmm. I admit to not having real all of this post, but certainly what I have read has been very critical of Margaret Thatcher. I have no idea how she and her party's policies affected Great Britain, but I think the majority in the U. S. viewed her as a strong leader, and a strong ally. I certainly do.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 12:36 PM

Who said that Red flag lives in a card board box, I'm disabled and can't work either so he can't go to internet cafes or the Libary to go onto the internet all thanks to Margaret Thatcher and her pals, that's what they did to the disabled.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 08:14 AM

Red flag Cardboard Box ... Luxury when we were kids all we had was a hole in the ground.

So what? I bet you don't live in a cardboard box either

Cllr

Ps I apologise if you do live in a card board box, if so do all your cardboard boxes come with internet connections. If that is right I will tell him to move up to Scotland 'cos my brother can't afford it, he's disabled and can't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:44 AM

I think that PROVES your sense of humour Councillor...& yes you therefore ARE hoist on your own petard!

*G*

I cant understand ANYBODY's admiration for 'That Woman' but I've got a lot of time for YOU, Councillor..after all, youre a Folkie..you cant be ALL bad...*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:38 AM

Oh just one thing I bet they don't get 151 (pounds) a fornight to live on, or live in carboard boxes or in doorways.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:27 AM

Fair enough I give in!

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:59 AM

Rise again, Rise again, That her name not be lost to the knowledge of men, and those that loved her best and who were with her to the end will see the Margaret Hilda Thatcher Rise Again.

_snigger_

Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:19 AM

Personally I think that politicians with a sense of humour are the most dangerous.

Now that is an interesting observation by cllr. I think it might be a much more interesting topic to explore (maybe in another BS thread since this si getting rather overlong) then continuing to excoriate Thatcher, which reminds me a bit of the way Cromwell's body was dug up for formal execution after the Restoration.

Having a sense of humour, for example, makes Ann Widdicombe a much more appealing politician to people who disagree with her politics than Margaret Thatcher ever was. I suppose that might make her more dangerous in some circumstances. If Reagan and Bush junior hadn't had a sense of humour they'd probably never have been elected, and if the American voters hadn't had a sense of humour they'd never have elected them. (Well, in the case of Bush junior they didn't really, but that is another matter.)

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:05 AM

Whether you're a Nice Guy or a Nasty Guy is entirely down your you own nature. Your politics are largely dependant on your background--you vote for the party you perceive a being better for your situation. As far as being good for the Country goes, it all depends on who you think the "Country" is: Business, the workers, the government ... add your own items to the list. If we stay off politics and religion, and stick to music, we'll all get on well. But we can all benefit from vigorous debate, as long as it doesn't descend into mere personal abuse. It's always been my curse to see the other bloke's point of view; if you can't see it, make the effort!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 10:16 PM

dear mr Mcgrath Some people say " never trust a politician who does not have a sense of humour" Personally I think that politicians with a sense of humour are the most dangerous.

Cllr ( Oh No I've hoisted my self by my own petard) _Thats assuming most of you mudcatters credit me with a sense of humour_

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 10:08 PM

red flag I never suggested you should vote for my Party, I mean get real.

I was telling you not to pretend you knew my background.

You didn't respond to that particular point... except by saying My family has good jobs (of which you have no idea.) I don't have to validate my views by what my brothers are employed or not employed as.

Please understand that my view on TBW is my own, I don't dis-believe yours but mine is different.

cllr

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:39 PM

I think almost the worst thing about the Thatcher years that it legitimised an arrogant vicious personalised style in political discourse, and I think that is reflected in the way this thread has gone. Every time you time you turned on the radio there'd be some politician sneering and strutting and totally humourless.

Thank God she's no longer there, and that way of thinking has gone with her for the time being anyway. Honestly, it's bad enough, but it really is different.

But to pretend that all that was just down to Thatcher, and that there is some cathartic value in going on about her now is is missing the point.

I think it was a pretty sick time, but I see her as a symptom of the illness rather than the cause. "I hate this bloody headache" is an understandable thing to say at the time - but once you've recovered it's a rather futile sort of thing on which to waste your curses.

Incidentally, I've always thought it was remarkably prescient of Bob Dylan to write Maggie's Farm ten years before the Tories accidentally made Thatcher the leader of the party.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 06:34 PM

Children - Children !

Let those who wish to fantasize do so.

Some day Thatcher will be used to frighten you, like Monmouth Hal (Henry V) in France, or Boney in Kent.

A ledgend with bad conetations.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 06:17 PM

P.S I wish that i could go to Tunisa on the giro that I get and bet there's quite a lot of other people would like to go as well. I proud to a Scot

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 06:09 PM

Cllr,

At Least your family all have jobs and by the looks of them bloody good ones at that including yourself, I mean am I supposed to feel sorry that you're a councilor with very little pay, it's still a job, as I say take a real look at Britian and as I said go to the poorer areas of Britain and tell them that the Tories are the best party for them. Oh by the way I'm a Scottish Nationalist, and I will never vote for a right wing party like yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 04:31 PM

John J

LOL, short and sweet ... like a roasted maggot

Also thank all of you who made kind comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: John J
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 12:50 PM

That bloody woman....

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 09:50 AM

Sorry for the delay I just got back from Tunisa(Hmm I forgot to check if we have any mudcatters out there)

Any way back to the plot. Red flag What do you mean "nice wee job" I wasn't given it, I fought a bloody hard election and got voted in. I'm a full time councillor on very little money. I don't denigrate Socialist or New Labour or Liberals for donating time and energy for being involved with local government or was this a remark aimed not just at me but all those involved in local democracy. My family on my fathers side are from Scotland I have cousins (scottish) running a hotel in Inverness. and I am good friends with a former chairman of the local conservative branch in Glasgow. Red flag you really do assume far too much about my knowledge. As for rose tinted specs thats better than the thistle tainted ones you seem to be wearing.

cllr

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 01:25 PM

New Labour Party (Old tory) Party. always fool the people of Scotland even when they were a socialist party.

The reason why there is only one Tory MP is because the SNP slipped up and alowed them to win, well we really felt sorry for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 12:23 PM

The fact that we have only one Tory MP in Scotland is because the Labour???? party have successfully fooled most of the people up here that their name means what it says. Goodness me they'll be calling themselves Socialists next!!

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 09:45 AM

Thatcher is a still a dictor, and those who think that she was great, try telling that to the millions of people that were made reduntant by her and her party. I understand that cllr has a nice wee job, I would really love it if they came up here in Scotland were we have only 1 Tory MP, which just goes to show how much the Tories are liked here in Scotland. Unlike those from the South east of England, the Tory heartland. I mean if you came up here to Scotand and said that you were proud to be a tory then I bet you wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of Scotland alive.

As for saying that Thatcher should die, I just wish she would. I meand thanks to your party, the industry here in Scotland is very low. I think that cllr should take off the rose coloured glasses and take a look at the real that Thatcher and her greedy pals created.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 07:11 PM

Keith - agreed she did not try to evade responsability. It might have been interesting to see what would have happened if she had.

PQ17, reminds me I owe you a pint or two over that thread, I'll PM you next time im M25 North about.

Swan - I had the honour/misfortune to act as an election agent/organiser (volentary/unpaid) in Kent in those days. The mental scars are still with me.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Roughyed
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 07:02 PM

I wonder what it was that made Thatcher grate so much. She certainly inspired - and still obviously does - massive hatred. Yet I have more comtempt for the politicians such as Michael Howard or Portillo who did not believe a word of the vicious nonsense they spouted. Their only concern was for their miserable careers and they did not give a damn about the damage they did. Yet somehow I hate her more and I know it's not because she was a woman. As for the remarks about the unions, they could not have damaged the fabric of the country worse that Thatchers government. There is some serious rewriting of history in this column

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 02:32 PM

I accept what you say Gareth, but she was subject to much personal criticism over the sinking, and she never tried to evade the responsibility by saying it was purely the Navy's decision, which is how any other politician might have played it.
I see PQ17 has sailed into the thread.Nice one Gareth!
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: mooman
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 02:50 AM

Although I don't share Cllr's politics and have always detested MT, Cllr has a great sense of humour, makes some shrewd observations, is fully entitled to his perspective and is most welcome here as far as I'm concerned!

Mudcat has (mostly) been, and should continue to be, a broad and tolerant "church" (in the non-religious sense).

"Don't let the b*****s get you down" Cllr!

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 06:43 PM

Keith,

I disagree - at the end of the day the sinking of the "Belgrano" was an opperational decision by the Navy, or put it another way, can you imagine the ructions there would have been if it had leaked, and it would have leaked, that the Prime Minister had overuled the Admiral on the spot. - And a light cruiser and two exocet armed destroyers had got amoungst the troop ships ? It could have made PQ17 look like a picnic.

I concur with your description of the Junta, I also remind you of the hysterical sympathy Thatcher and others poured over Pinochot (sic) in recent times.

I also concur on the subject of appeasement. If the Patrol ship had not been on the cuts list ?

No- as I said earlier in this thread :-

1/. Don't charge/credit that woman with the "Belgrano" sinking.
and
2/. It was a case of a Government making the correct decisions for the wrong reasons.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 04:38 PM

Whatever else she was she was more in touch with, and sympathetic to the lot of the squadie than any politician since. I believe it was genuine concern for our people in the S Atlantic the led to the sinking of the Belgrano.
Remember also that the Falklands were invaded against the will of every islander, by a truly odious, fascist regime that had disappeared thousands of its own people.
It might have been cheaper to resettle the entire population, but there were other Galtieris watching to see if appeasement was to be the British response.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:31 PM

As someone who did live in the UK under Maggies rule, I can honestly say that it never did me any harm. Then again I was not against her by reason of her politics or her sex, before she had even moved into No.10. I travelled a lot in Europe in those days, and found that she was greatly admired across the channel, which helped this country's image, but things like that account for nothing in the face of blind prejudice. On the basis that I think there is a certain amount of winding-up going on in this thread, and also the general tone of cultural fascism, this you may be pleased to hear is my last word on this thread.

Jock

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gareth
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:44 PM

Actually - I think we should put a preservation order on Cllr - he is a very rare specimin.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Cllr
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM

SF I still think Thatcher is great, just 'cos you repeat your self does'nt make your bile any more illuminating.

I'm not a tory in disguise I'm a Tory And I asure there are millions of people who thinks she was/is great.

I don't start these threads and I don't particulary expect a sympathetic audience to my views I'm still entitled to make them. I try not to hate anyone although PIRA sympathisers and BNP come pretty close I still wouldn't want them to be tortured.

Gervaise you should know better. (OT are you coming to my halloween party?) Labour political history in the seventies doesnt make pretty reading either.

Jock couldn't agree with you more.

Cllr (Still being a Tory and Proud of it)

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:13 PM

Bald Eagle, I take that you have never lived under her government, here in Britian, and therefore can't really comment on this subject.

Until you have lived with Thatcher as your prime minister, then as I say you really don't know what it was like for us here in Britian, mind you I'm not the only one here in britain that hates her there are millions of others who hate her too.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: red flag
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:12 PM

Bald Eagle, I take that you have never lived under her government, here in Britian, and therefore can't really comment on this subject.

Until you have lived with Thatcher as you prime minister, then as I say you really don't know what it was like for us here in Britian, mind you I'm not the only one here in britain that hates her there are millions of others who hate her too.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Ringer
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:40 AM

And most of the posts in this thread, Gervase, remind me of the old saw, "Empty vessels make the most sound". The levels of "vitriol and contempt" tell me nothing except that the posters are vitriolic and contemptuous. No doubt Osama bin Laden is also full of vitriol and contempt: does that justify his arguments and actions?

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:29 AM

When someones contribution to a thread contains the lines "I can't understand how anyone could--------" then there is no point putting your side of the argument 'cos as they said, they can't ( or won't ) understand.

Jock

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 07:03 AM

BE - your comments remind me of some of those US commentators who, after September 11, were bemusedly wondering "Why do people hate us?".
Doesn't the level of vitriol and contempt in this thread tell you something about the effect the woman had on this country? Sure, there aren't many reasoned arguments as to exactly why she was such a socially divisive and malign influence on the UK, but the visceral comments from the posters should be as eloquent. Look where many of them come from - parts of Britain where the employment prospects were virtually destroyed during her tenure, in pursuit of a misguided monetarist policy adopted only by Pinochet's Chile.
I'm one of the fortunate ones - I was lucky to work for a right-wing newspaper group throughout the Tories' reign, and I never had it so good. Others didn't.
Remember Corby, Consett, the miners' strike...? Those aren't just numbers; they're people and families. Some 15 years on, some of those who were kicked onto the scrapheap are "lucky" enough to work in call centres and do other McJobs.
Others have been repeatedly processed through inadequate training schemes designed, it seems, merely to massage the unemployment figures.
Bitter? I thought the thread was a model of restraint!

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Ringer
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:45 AM

What a very unsavoury thread this is. Not much argument, but lots of hatred and vituperation. I suggest that if you can't refer to Mrs Thatcher except in terms of "that bitch" you don't bother to post. Rather, stew in your own vile juices.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Troll
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:58 PM

Guest:click here

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:39 PM

Six of the current eight top threads are B.S.

And people wonder, "what has happened to the DT/MC

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Ferret
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 10:20 PM

Margaret Thatcher is one of the few politicians that I have to agree with the sentiment of this song about.

I'D LOVE TO SHOVE HER

By: Saw. Dr,/O'Glacain Performed by "The Irish Brigade" From the Album "Ten Years On The Run"

They have voted for another magi's bottom of the poll Well she's nothing left to do now But sine up at the dole Kicked out on here hole In the Falklands and in Ulster She went in with guns ablaze But like any dried up cow now They sent her out to graze God above be praised

Chorus: Oh I'd love to shove her I'd love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal I'd love to shove her love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone Woe, Woe Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone

She was the iron lady who spoke for the British nation since they sent her to the scrape yard Her mouth has constipation And her silence's is in contrast to the politicians here Charlie Hohy and Ian Paisley Both have verbal diarrhoea Talking from there rear

Chorus: Oh I'd love to shove her I'd love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal I'd love to shove her love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone Woe, Woe Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone

After thirty years of service her love life can begin She can stay at home with Dennis now and help him get it in I'm talking about the gin Well she can think of former glory now she's nothing else to do Will she often think of Brighton When she's siting on the loo What a chance we blew

Chorus: Oh I'd love to shove her I'd love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal I'd love to shove her love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone Woe, Woe Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone

They're going to hang her picture In the Tory hall of fame Though there's many people that I know That would spit upon her name All the tragedy and death she coursed Lives on though years may pass Sure the Proves won't be happy Till she's six feet under grass Sentex up her ass

Chorus: Oh I'd love to shove her I'd love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal I'd love to shove her love to shove her once Where, off Mount Errigal Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone Woe, Woe Gone, Magi Thatcher is gone

They have voted for another She can go and kiss my ass.

------------------------------------

As for voting her in, well the 1983

Conservative 42.4% Labour 27.6% Liberal/SDP Alliance 25.4% Welsh/Scottish Nat 1.5% Others 3.1%

Under Britain's present electoral system the number of seats held by a party in Parliament dose not reflect the total number of votes polled by that party in a General Election. On the basis of the 1983 General Election results the Conservative benefited most from the system and the Liberal/SDP Alliance cam of worst. The Election results showed that the Alliance needed, on average, more than ten time's as many votes per MP as the victorious Conservative. Proportional representation (PR), a system used in other democratic countries, would (and now in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland but not England.) have produced different results. With PR, the number of MP's elected is, as far as possible, proportional to the share of the national vote each party obtains.

That's Conservative 32,776 Labour 40,463 Liberal/SDP Alliance 338,302 votes per MP

British democracy is the best that money can buy. Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

As for Argentine light cruisers, well the Afghan SAM's were not aimed or fired at the us plans till after they had gone in but they still had to be taken out before they were able to kill U.S. lives and not after, do we wait till the Argentines sink one of the British ships before taking out a threat a 6" shell dose a lot of damage.

All the best Ferret.

Subject: RE: BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments?
From: Tone d' F
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 07:17 PM

Bald Eagle, yeah sorry it was an undeclared war and the Argentinians did'nt remove their military escort for the scrap metal merchants and they did then invade.

I appologise, my memory of the details of 20yrs ago were iffy, and as with everything you only remember what you want to remember.

Mrs T did not start the Falklands war