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Is Bob Dylan klezmer?

GUEST,Mr. Jones' interrogator 09 Oct 01 - 09:24 AM
BluesMojo 09 Oct 01 - 12:28 PM
Big Tim 09 Oct 01 - 12:54 PM
Troll 09 Oct 01 - 01:06 PM
Little Hawk 09 Oct 01 - 05:41 PM
Tedham Porterhouse 09 Oct 01 - 10:43 PM
thosp 10 Oct 01 - 12:04 AM
Crazy Eddie 10 Oct 01 - 06:48 AM
Steve Latimer 10 Oct 01 - 08:11 AM
marymarymary 10 Oct 01 - 11:04 AM
mousethief 10 Oct 01 - 11:13 AM
Tedham Porterhouse 10 Oct 01 - 01:49 PM
thosp 10 Oct 01 - 09:17 PM
GUEST,swoopy 11 Oct 01 - 10:15 AM
UB Ed 11 Oct 01 - 01:40 PM
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Subject: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: GUEST,Mr. Jones' interrogator
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 09:24 AM

I gather from reading Mudcat, that "klezmer" means travelling Jewish musician. Bob Dylan is probably the travellingest Jewish musician in history. Does that mean that Bob is klezmer?

What about Leonard Cohen, David Grisman, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, David Bromberg, etc.?

"Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is. Do you, Mr. Jones?"


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: BluesMojo
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:28 PM

The idea of a Dylan klezmer album is oddly intriguing to me.


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 12:54 PM

How do you define Jewish? Racially, Bob's a Jew, but theologically, a Christian.


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Troll
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:06 PM

To learn a bit about Klezmer, the people and the music, click here. or check your local library for: "Klezmer!" by Henry Sapoznik Or, if you have a specific question, PM me and I'll try to find the answer for you.
I have played in a klezmer band for the last six years.
In answer to your Question, no. Neither Dylan or any of the others you named would qualify. Klezmer deals primarily with dance music, and, while there is a vocal tradition especially among the Hassidic Jews, the music is still primarily for dancing.
Not all Klezmorim were itinerant. In Eastern Europe they might have a home base from which they would cover all the villages in the area, playing at Weddings, Brisses, and other simchas or celebrations.
Some bands were even hired by the gentiles for their parties so the Klezmorim had to be able to play a variety of dance tunes and styles.
I could go on, but I won't. Check out the link and the book.

troll


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:41 PM

Bob has claimed to be "just a song and dance man", but I suspect that was just one of those off the cuff remarks he is notorious for...

- LH


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:43 PM

Big Tim,

I'm not sure at all that Dylan is still "theologically, a Christian." After his born-again period, he did seem to return to Judaism. He studied with a Lubavitch rabbi and was seen praying at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem.

Also, one cannot be "racially" Jewish. Jews come from virtually all of the races of humankind.


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: thosp
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:04 AM

a short aside --- i can't remember the Dylan song that this line comes from "he sure has a lot of gall to be so usless and all" ---- thanks for any help!

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 06:48 AM

Troll, "I could go on, but I won't"
Please do, even a couple of paragraphs of synopsis would be good. Regards, Eddie


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 08:11 AM

thos,

That would be Visions of Johanna, originally released on Blonde on Blonde, later on the compilation Biograph (live acoustic, my favourite version) and also on Live '66.


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: marymarymary
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 11:04 AM

Not to be a nitpicker, but I can't resist pointing out
the illogic in the original post's argument.

To say that:

Klezmer musicians are Jewish and travel a lot
Bob Dylan is Jewish and travels a lot
--------------------------------------------
Bob Dylan is a klezmer musician

is kinda like saying:

The mailman walks around my neighborhood all day and
hates dogs
My cat walks around my neighborhood all day and hates
dogs
------------------------------------------------------
My cat is the mailman

All that aside, if you play "Desire" at double-speed,
several of the songs on it sound pretty klezmer-y.


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 11:13 AM

The problem is in taking "itinerant Jewish musician" as a DEFINITION of a klezmori (if that's the proper singular of klezmorim -- forgive my relative ignorance of Yiddish) rather than a DESCRIPTION of same. Which leads to the undistributed-middle sorts of problems marymarymary points out above.

Or to put it another way around, it's confusing "Klezmorim are wandering Jewish musicians" with "All wandering Jewish musicians are Klezmorim."

A simple and easy-to-make mistake/fallacy.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:49 PM

Alex,

The singular of klezmorim is klezmer.


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: thosp
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:17 PM

thanks Steve!

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: GUEST,swoopy
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 10:15 AM

no, bob plays rock and blues, and he aint even black (next question please)


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Subject: RE: Is Bob Dylan klezmer?
From: UB Ed
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 01:40 PM

Mary Cubed - My cat is the mailman... (goo goo ka choo)


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