Anti-war songs to fit the occasion

Subject: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A friend
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:33 PM

I haven't seen much in the way of discussion about what anti-war songs Mudcatters will be singing in the coming days, weeks, months, and years as we fight the Shadow Wars, and bomb some of the poorest countries in the world.

"You Can't Scare Me, I'm Stickin' to the Empire" by Dave Lippman comes to mind (with updated verses, of course).

Any other ideas or brand spanking new songs for Anti-War of Terrorism anthems?

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:58 PM

This is a tough one, and a question I was faced with recently. I played a half hour set at New Hampshire's Bridges for Peace Rally on the steps of the state capitol in Concord yesterday. When I was asked to play I realized that the world was not yet ready for "I Ain't A-marching Any More." I was not ready to make any new songs, either. Most of us feel profoundly torn by everything that is happening. Yet I am a committed pacifist.

I finally decided that we need songs that build community - especially given the racist attacks in our own country. (A local Afghani owned gas station, for example, has received bomb threats.) I sang Pat Humphries's "Common Thread," and Cathy Fink's "Hands." ("A circle of hands to take a stand and put an end to war....") Then I sang "When the Rain Comes Down," which doesn't directly deal with war, but does talk about how we are all conncted. Cindy Kallet's "If I Sing" worked very well, as did Magpie's setting of Ella Baker's words - "Give light and the people will find the way." I finished off with "Survivor Leave," a very powerful song by Ken Stevens that's on the Boarding Party album Fair Winds and a Following Sea. "What's the use of disagreeing when you're fighting and not seeing?/ And the whole world can't be on survivor leave." Of all the songs I sing, that one right now strike sme as the most poignant.

If it hadn't been a windy day or I'd had an indoor crowd I might have tried Tom Paxton's "Peace Will Come," which involves lots of counterpoint. Undoubtedly there will be new songs written, and as this thing becomes more drawn out, with more killing of innocents, we will probably come to a more strident place. I still think, though, that there will always be a valued place for songs that bring folks together.

Peace, Dan

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A friend
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:08 PM

As a committed pacifist Dan, I'm curious as to why you feel it is inappropriate to be singing anti-war songs at this time when they are needed so badly.

While I understand the pressures to conform to the "unity" themes the government, schools, businesses, military and police, and the mass media are very intense, isn't making a stand against "unity for military retaliation" what your pacifism is supposed to be about? Taking a stand when it is difficult, not some time later when more people will oppose the slaughter of the innocents?

Isn't that the one thing we really *can* be clear about? I heard the wife of one of the men who was killed on the plane that crashed in PA, who said she certainly didn't want to see a military retaliation, because she knew it meant other families somewhere else in the world would share in her famiy's fate, which she wouldn't wish on anyone. If a survivor can be so clear and so strong about that the week after the attack, why are so many of the rest of us finding it so difficult?

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,I ain't marching anymore
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:08 PM

funny, that and Universal soldier are the songs that I keep singing to myself

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:20 PM

Actually, there have been a number of threads about music in response to 9/11, and many of the songs were about peace.

~S~

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A friend
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:31 PM

Hi ~S~

I've seen those threads, and agree many of the songs were about peace.

But then our country began waging war against the people of Afghanistan, who have done nothing to directly effect our national security. Absolutely nothing. They are one of the poorest nations on earth, and certainly the most devastated.

Is that what we want our country to stand for? Are those communal values we wish to uphold? The wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth attacking the poorest, most vulnerable and defenseless country in the world?

I think the US and British waging war against the people of Afghanistan calls for a different sort of peace song than those we've been sharing here since Sept 11th, which is why I started a new thread, and look forward to hearing peoples' ideas about ways to effectively wage peace and work for justice through our songs.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: thosp
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:54 PM

i hope this works! --- a photo essay of Afganistan before WE started our bombing---blueclicketything---- combined with what the Taliban has done t the women of the country------ i'm sure most Afgans ( the ones not running around with guns) must feel that they are living in hell

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: DougR
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:27 AM

Perhaps it is difficult to compose new anti-war songs when the military action being taken is the result of an enemy of this country killing over five thousand people in New York City.

Not quite the same as Viet Nam, where our troops went there to fight a war that many folkies felt was unjustified.

Your post would certainly be more credible, Guest, were you to identify yourself. How are we to know you are not Osma Bin Laden merely trying to stir up shite?

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,Adrienne
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 08:24 AM

The song that comes to my mind is John Prine's "Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Anymore". I see those flags all over the place now, and everyone seems fully ready to back the good ol' USA no matter what--my country right or wrong. "Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore, They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war. Now Jesus don't like killin' No matter what the reason's for, And your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore."

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A Friend
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 08:33 AM

Guest Adrienne,

Excellent choice! I'd forgotten all about that song, despite my love of John Prine! Thanks for helping me remember it. You are absolutely right--it fits the flag waving frenzy perfectly.

BTW--anyone know to whom the oft-quoted by some news media statement "Patriotism is the first refuge of scoundrels" should rightfully be attributed to?

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 10:02 AM

What about movies as well. http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/5877.htm

A few titles or movie lines come to mind *G*

Stripes Part Deux

Sleepless in NYC

Binny and Joon

Swellsville

Bridge over river Hudson

Jihad means never having to say you're Saudi

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,Adrienne
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 10:11 AM

Thank YOU, friend. I did a little Google search, and the quote, actually "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel", is attributed to Dr. Samuel Johnson (1709-1784).

I'm enjoying your thoughtful commentary. Keep it up!

Subject: ADDPOP: Christian Militia (New Model Army)
From: GUEST,English Jon
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:07 PM

How about this one? It's by New Model Army.

Christian Militia.

There's a witch hunt coming - Screaming down on it's rebirth - There's a crusade coming

- Hellfire back here on earth - See the light in their eyes shine - Listen to their words like

swords - The Christian militia is marching now

- There's a witch hunt coming - Born from all those American fears - There's a new purge

coming - An inquisition for all of us here - Hold onto your sanity as best you can - While

some Hitler claims to speak for the Son of Man - The Christian militia is marching now

- Hatred makes the adrenalin flow - Stir up the fire watch it grow - Everybody loves a

righteous cause - Old lives forgotten in holy wars - Everything forgotten in holy wars

- There's a nightmare coming - Shut up your doors close your mind - There's a nightmare

coming - Born again, born again blind - The girls show the way, then show their legs - With

American showbiz razmatazz - With sex in one hand and a gun in the other - Christ returns

- The right-wing respectable clampdown clan - Find their figure head in a holy man - Here

come the Christians a hysterical mob - Worshipping the Devil in the name of God

- Worshipping the Devil in the name of God

Fantastic song, guaranteed to get you booed off stage, I should think.

EJ

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: DougR
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:27 PM

I guess not.

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A Friend
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:13 PM

Thanks for looking that up, Guest Adrienne! I'll try and remember its the *last* refuge--especially when it seems so much like the first these days!

Great stuff!

I was also thinking of "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" and of dusting of Country Joe's "Fixin to Die Rag" with new lyrics. That last one is an easy one to get people singing along.

As far as movies goes--"Catch 22" for sure.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Deda
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:38 PM

For an old anti-war song, there's "Last Night I had the strangest dream". Pete Seeger did it many decades ago, and it's not about any particular war, it's just about the dream that all nations "had all agreed / they'd put an end to war". Here it is, cut & pasted from the DT:

LAST NIGHT I HAD THE STRANGEST DREAM (Ed McCurdy)

Last night I had the strangest dream, I never dreamed before. I dreamed the world had all agreed To put an end to war. I dreamed I saw a mighty room, The room was filled with men. And the papers they were signing said They'd never fight again.

And when the papers were all signed, And a million copies made They all joined hands and bowed their heads, And grateful prayers were made. And the people in the streets below, They all danced round and round. And guns and swords and uniforms Were scattered on the ground.

Last night I had the strangest dream, I never dreamed before. I dreamed the world had all agreed To put an end to war. I dreamed I saw a mighty room, The room was filled with men. And the papers they were signing said They'd never fight again.

When I awoke, twas but a dream, and peace a dirty word I tried to tell them of my dream, but not a word they heard And then I got me fighting mad, and I knew just what I'd do I'd fight nonviolently for peace, until my dream came true

"Last Night I Had a Happy Dream" was given a new lease, when Ed McCurdy rewrote it as a peace song. The last verse was added by Linda Hirschorn.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 06:10 PM

I've had Stan Roger's "House Of Orange" going through my head since sept 11th... Donno if it totaly sums up how I feel about this whole thing but I do believe "Causes are ashes where children lie slain"...

If the events of Sept 11th lead to a world where terrorisim is not longer tollerated then perhaps there is a silver lining of sorts to this dark cloud...

I say this knowing full well that things are going to get worse before they get better...

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: BH
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 06:27 PM

So many wonderful songs of and for peace---and Ed McCurdy's is certainly a wonderful song when one is talking of dealing with people who fight, but yet, hopefuly, value life. KIng & Ghandi were successful in non-violence specifically because they were dealing with people who place a value on humankind and life.

Viet-Nam cannot be equated with this. Our big mistake in pulling, frankly, French chestnuts--at the start--out of the fire. Think Dien Bien Phu.

Now we are dealing with the slaughter of our innocents---and to the perpertrators it is probably only a start. Our first mistake was not nipping in the bud before the disaster---now it has to be dealt with. Sadly innocents get killed. We try not to harm them---but, in Churchill's words---it is either world order or anarchy.

John Prine's "Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven" --as a writer states--is perfect. So what if it won't get you into heaven----Lennon had it right in Imagine---what if there is no heaven or hell. That is the entire problem---and why the Shiite is hitting the fan.

No guest I

Bill Hahn

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 07:09 PM

I don't think people were going around singing anti-war songs after pearl harbor. Get a grip people, this ain't vietnam. There are hundreds of thousands of fanatical muslims worldwide who dance with glee at the thought of killing american women and children. You can say it ain't so out of "political correctness" or some misguided liberal philosophy but that ain't changing anything. All you got to do is look at the TV and see people demonstating in support of bin Ladin. This is kill or be killed. Seems some of you people would just sit there and peaceably let someone slit your throat while you all sit there and sing little happy protest songs. I personally am not a really "nice" person. If i heard someone singing anti-war songs right now i most likely would pick them up and see if i could shake them back to thier senses. Sing it if you will. Just keep an eye out for the large angry biker person with the ponytail.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 08:13 PM

The terrorist attack is a declaration of a fight to the death. Appeasment would preclude any and all US influence in the region. WE WANT THE OIL. THEY WANT ALL JEWS AND THEIR ALLIES DEAD. To give up Isreal will not occur without a nuclear war.

But my main point is everyone has a different unstated agenda than the one they proclaim to the world. bin Laden hopes to inherit the house of Saudi Arabia. But that is all between the lines.

For those able to read far enough here is a government document that outlines the importance of oil and natural gas in middle Asia and how a stable Afghanistan is needed to build a pipline to the sea.

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.HTM#30

If any songs are to come from this conflict, mention of the oil and the oil barons in charge of the war would be in order.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,English Jon
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 05:14 AM

I don't think anyone is denying the gravity of the situation. Personally, I have a real moral objection to violence, and don't believe in "an eye for an eye". Having said that, I'm afraid there's really not that much in the way of alternatives. The Taliban are not a very nice organisation and the world needs them about as much as we need the IRA, BNP et all. I guess, if we must have a war then it needs to be focused specifically on the terrorists, even accidental co-latteral damage is wrong. What worries me is mankind's capacity to demonise a percieved enemy, i.e. A lot of people think the entire Arab world is prepared to fight to the death, when in reality it's a slack handfull of fanatics.

The most worrying thing is that our leading politicians all seem more than willing to fan the flames for their own political gain. Just look at Tony Blair - You'd think he was running for election as Prime Minister of Earth.

EJ

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,Butch
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 08:00 AM

I have to agree with some of the statements made about this being different than Viet Nam.

I first have to ask - What is the proof that we are targeting the Afgan. people? I have seen little or none.

And whiile youu worry about those people, where is you concern for OUR innocents, including the Muslim men and women who died on 9-11! What about the embassy bombings, the attempt on the life of the President of Egypt, the Cole, the WTC basement bombing and the list goes on. What about what the Taliban is doing to women and children of their own country! Get your heads out of the sand and into the right century! This is not Viet Nam anymore!

And on being for peace, I am. I have VERY strict moral and religious constricts on when a war can be wages, and how it can be waged (if ever) and be morally acceptable. So far, this one is. When it crosses the line, I will protest and sing with you!

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 08:15 AM

The moral highground is often captured with words as in the "A day that will ive in infamy" speech. Now we have the words "Yer either with us or against us in our crusade ...ah er in our campaign to getem dead or alive".

No one doubts the insidious attack was depraved except an enormous segment of Arabs (not just a slack handful) that see the WTC attack as a "comeupence".

With no world court legitimacy the US will quickly run out of highground and the rabble of 50 Arab states will be firmly entrenched with a uniform code of vengence against the US ... FOREVER.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,Butch
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 10:22 AM

"With no World Court legitimacy"

You are either ill informed or you choose to be. We have nearly ever country on earth on our side in this. Even old enemies like Russia. They may not be in lock step with our actions, but they do support our right to bring the perps to justice. What more of a world court do you need.

And, if you think that they are not already against US forever-- then you must be blind. They have been against US since 1967 at least. This will not change until we show our resolve to answer agression with swift and resolute power.

You can make fun of the President all you want, but on this one, he is right. We must stand up or many more people will surely die!

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: LR Mole
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 10:48 AM

And while we're on the Prine frequency, were I to be singing tonight I'd do "Everbody Needs Somebody (that they can talk to)"...I bumped into the Savior, and he said, "Pardon me";I said, "Jesus, you look tired," he said, Jesus!So do you...

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 10:54 AM

Arm twisting an alliance is not a world court kind of legitimacy I was talking about.

As for anti war songs here is one I wrote this morning. I thinks it has something for everyone.

'Love means never having to say you're Saudi'

In the early morning hours there was a tragic terrible thing

In a land that revolved around oil and the sex life of a "king"

In the early morning hours an enemy unknown, was on their way

There was no warning on that crystal clear September day

They love their God and aim the planes for the wrath he's wrought.

Soon the enemy had a face that said he was innocent but you deserved what you got

ON 911 a faceless enemy showered NY with PAPER, AIRPLANES AND BODIES.

Love means never having to say you are Saudis

[refrain] Paper , Airplanes and bodies. Love means never having to say you are Saudis.

The faceless enemies while among us looked us in the eye with silence

While in their hearts and minds was their loving God's violence.

The love of your God has promised you that you can change the course of history

The depth and horror of your hate was to us, of course a mystery

Somewhere tonight there is the man that plans your future and its cost.

It is not for God , it is not for Islam but to regain the family he has lost

An eye for an eye, a scar in the sky the shock and horror for the families that cried.

We will find a way each day to teach you the God you love has lied.

[refrain] An eye for an eye, a scar in the sky the shock and horror for the families that cried. We will find a way each day to teach you the God you love has lied.

Don Hakman oct 2001

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A Friend
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 12:21 PM

I appreciate that there are some people in this forum who are opposed to the anti-war movement that has mobilized here in the US and Britain, and in many other countries around the world in the wake of the military retaliation against Afghanistan.

But this is a music thread about anti-war songs.

Couldn't those of you who wish to debate the right/wrong of military action move your discussion to a more appropriate thread (there seem to be plenty of them!), and let those of us who wish to have a music discussion do just that?

I'd really appreciate that sort of cooperation, and I'm sure the other folks who wish to discuss anti-war/anti-military action songs would appreciate it too.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 01:46 PM

OK , here is my submission that is an anti war song in "wolf's clothing"

.......................... In the early morning hours , there were ghosts up in the sky. In a land that loved its freedom, and the towers that stood high.

In the early morning hours an enemy unknown, was on their way, there was no warning, on that crystal clear September day

They love their God and aim the planes for the wrath that he has wrought. Soon the enemy had a face that said "I'm innocent but you deserved what you got"

ON 911 a faceless, enemy showered NY ...with PAPER, AIRPLANES AND BODIES... STEEL BLOOD AND GUTS.

The Saudis are respondsible along with Allah's unholy love. IF you think it ends here you surly must be nuts.

After all the God damm wars weve had, for some God that is above, Is it time to drink some beer and sing "lets give his god a shove".

The faceless enemies were here and we scarcly gave a glance While in their hearts and minds was Allah's violence.

The love of God has promised you, that you'll change the course of time. The depth and horror of your hate, was to us, a cruel crime.

Somewhere tonight, there is the man that plots his war. Plots the schemes, plots the deaths and how much it will cost. It is not for God , it is not for love but for a family he has lost.

An eye for an eye, a scar in the sky, the shock and horror for the families that cried. We will find a way , to teach you, it was the man that hated freedom, that lied.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: DougR
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 02:32 PM

Guest, A friend: I am afraid I may have been the first to cause the thread creep, and for that I apologize. It concerned me shortly after I posted but I couldn't take it back. This was a pure music thread until I posted, and though I don't personally agree with the subject matter it is no excuse for introducing thread creep.

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: DougR
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 03:05 PM

I just had a thought after I posted the one above. I don't write songs so I don't know what the challenges might be, but what about someone who can, writing some anti-terrorist songs?

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 03:16 PM

Well after correcting the rythym, tune and intended meaning. This is what I came up with.

In the early morning hours, there were ghosts up in the sky. In a land that loved its freedom, and the towers that stood high. In the early morning hours an enemy unknown, was on their way, there was no warning, on that crystal clear September day They loved their God and aimed the planes for the wrath that he has wrought. Soon the enemy had a face that said "I'm innocent, you deserved what you got" ON 911 a faceless, enemy showered NY ...with PAPER, AIRPLANES AND BODIES... STEEL BLOOD AND GUTS. The Saudis are responsible, along with Allah's unholy love. IF you think it ends here, you surely must be nuts. After all the God damn wars we've had, for some God that is above, Is it time to drink some beer and sing [shouted]"lets give this god a shove". The faceless enemies were here and we scarcely gave a glance While in their hearts and minds was their Allah's violence. The love of God has promised you, that you'll change the course of time. The depth and horror of your hate, was to us, the greatest crime. Somewhere tonight, there is the man that plots his war. Plots the schemes, plots the deaths and how much it will cost. It is not for God , it is not for love but for a family he has lost. The war he wants is yet another holocaust. An eye for an eye, a scar in the sky, the shock and horror for families that cried. We will find a way, to teach you, its not a god who hated liberty, it was a bearded man that lied. Its not a god that hated liberty , it was a bearded man that lied. Don Hakman Oct.9, 2001

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: BH
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 05:13 PM

I suppose that is what happens even in a real(live) discussion---you move on and expand the topic

Eric Bogle---music now for a moment---has another wonderful song he composed on the tragic event of the assassination of Rabin---THE BLESSING. Bogle wants peace--- but as he says in the song"....thank humanity for spitting in creation's face". It is a powerful piece.

As to Tony Blair----we need another Churchill in these days and perhaps he is the one. I say bless his firm and charismatic speeches.

Bill H

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: DougR
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 06:43 PM

Well, Bill H, if you INSIST on thread creep ...I say bless him too! **BG**

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A Friend
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 06:55 PM

Perhaps those like Bill H and Donuel who are interested in discussing anti-terrorist music, rather than anti-war music, could start another thread to discuss it/exchange lyrics, etc?

That way we could all respect one another's beliefs and allow for free and open discussion in this forum.

That would be the democratic way to do this, wouldn't it?

Subject: ADD: The Island (Paul Brady)
From: Max Tone
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 07:05 PM

Robin Williamson's Great anti-war/bigotry song is here:- The Cold Days of February

Paul Brady's "The Island" mixes despair of the 'troubles'with a beautiful love song.

The Island (Paul Brady)

They say the skies of Lebanon are burning
Those mighty cedars bleeding in the heat
They're showing pictures on the television
Women and children dying in the street
And we're still at it in our own place
Still trying to reach the future through the past
Still trying to carve tomorrow from a tombstone...

Chorus

But Hey! Don't listen to me!
This wasn't meant to be no sad song
We've heard too much of that before
Right now I only want to be here with you
Till the morning dew comes falling
I want to take you to the island
And trace your footprints in the sand
And in the evening when the sun goes down
We'll make love to the sound of the ocean

They're raising banners over by the markets
Whitewashing slogans on the shipyard walls
Witchdoctors praying for a mighty showdown
No way our holy flag is gonna fall
Up here we sacrifice our children
To feed the worn-out dreams of yesterday
And teach them dying will lead us into glory...

Repeat chorus

Now I know us plain folks don't see all the story
And I know this peace and love's just copping out
And I guess these young boys dying in the ditches
Is just what being free is all about
And how this twisted wreckage down on main street
Will bring us all together in the end
And we'll go marching down the road to freedom, freedom, freedom...

Copyright Rondor Music (London)

Like Donuel, I also came up with an anti- War/Oil song today. It's The Hypocritical Song

Rob

Subject: ADDPOP: I Was only 19 (A Walk in the Light Green)
From: Max Tone
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 07:17 PM

I forgot another classic, from sadly defunct Aussie Folk-Rockers, Redgum.

I Was only 19 (A Walk in the Light Green)--REDGUM

Mum and Dad and Denny saw the passing out parade at Puckapunyal
(1t was long march from cadets).
The sixth battalion was the next to tour and It was me who drew the card.
We did Canungra and Shoalwater before we left.

Chorus 1:
And Townsville lined the footpath as we marched down to the quay.
This clipping from the paper shows us young and strong and clean.
And there's me in my slouch hat with my SLR and greens.
God help me, I was only nineteen.

From Vung Tau riding Chinooks to the dust at Nui Dat,
I'd been in and out of choppers now for months.
But we made our tents a home. V.B. and pinups on the lockers,
And an Asian orange sunset through the scrub.

Chorus 2:
And can you tell me, doctor, why I still can't get to sleep?
And night time's just a jungle dark and a barking M.16?
And what's this rash that comes and goes, can you tell me what it means?
God help me, I was only nineteen.

A four week operation, when each step can mean your last one On two legs:
it was a war within yourself.
But you wouldn't let your mates down 'til they had you dusted off,
So you closed your eyes and thought about something else.

Chorus 3:
Then someone yelled out "Contact"', and the bloke behind me swore.
We hooked in there for hours, then a God almighty roar.
Frankie kicked a mine the day that mankind kicked the moon.
God help me, he was going home in June.

1 can still see Frankie, drinking tinnies in the Grand Hotel
On a thirty-six hour rec. leave in Vung Tau.
And I can still hear Frankie, lying screaming in the jungle.
'Till the morphine came and killed the bloody row

Chorus 4:
And the Anzac legends didn't mention mud and blood and tears.
And stories that my father told me never seemed quite real
I caught some pieces In my back that I didn't even feel.
God help me, I was only nineteen.

Chorus 5:
And can you tell me, doctor, why I still can't get to sleep?
And why the Channel Seven chopper chills me to my feet?
And what's this rash that comes and goes, can you tell me what it means?
God help me, I was only nineteen.

Rob

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A Friend
Date: 12 Oct 01 - 07:57 AM

Wow Rob, thanks for those songs. I knew the Paul Brady one, but not the one by Redgum. Powerful stuff.

I find it odd that when man made violence (war and militarism) so awful, that so many people still want the subject to be taboo. As if not talking about it (or singing about it) will make it somehow more...hmmmm, not sure what--acceptable? Bearable? Easier to get along or go along with those who believe militarism and war are solutions to the violence we cause and initiate.

Thanks for sharing those songs Rob.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Max Tone
Date: 12 Oct 01 - 06:09 PM

In case nobody followed my links, above, here are the relevant lyrics:-

THE COLD DAYS of FEBRUARY
By Robin Williamson

As I beside some winter's fire,

sat writing words strange and steady;

amongst my own internal choir

came voices to my mind unready.

Of those who died on either side,

while friends cry o'er their bones unburied;

go sighing through the North east wind,

these cold days of February.

Some clerk with papers and his pen;
some banker with his poison pity;
some Captain careless of his men.
These fan the flames that maim the cities.
And bigots in the name of Christ,
by thorny paths obscure and muddy,
can fear to roam through years of cold;
bewailing how their hands are bloody.

Now Whether they were from here or there;
their race and place I would not be heeding.
The men who caused such bitterness -
If hearts they have - Let their hearts be bleeding -
who neither for age nor the young child,
would turn the shot of the arms they carried.
Go bear the guilt a weary ways;
for the cold days of February


The next one was screived upon hearing of the US oilies' long term aim to install a puppet government in Afghan/Paki-Stan, to enable the construction of a $2.5 Bil., 1,000 mile OIL and GAS pipeline through these innocent countries


The HYPOCRITICAL SONG
Rob Maxtone Graham,
to tune of "The Hippopotamus Song", by Flanders & Swann.

A pair hypocritical,
They got out their guns,
Down by the old Khyber Pass.
On a pretext political,
Their web it was spun,
An' they rally us all to "kick ass".
So when we've got 'Bin' and our puppets are in,
Our mighty new pipeline we'll lay.
We'll teach 'em & tax 'em, an' sell them Big Macs, an'
Then, once again we can say..........

Chorus
Oil, Oil, glorious Oil,
Nothing quite like it a war to embroil.
"So follow me, follow, let's cause some more sorrow,
An' then we can wallow, whilst Earth we despoil".

Our motive acritical,
To save 'ghanistan;
"Let's rid the world of these guys".
But the reason's soritical,
To sell heaps of cans;
That's Global Trading's disguise.
And back in the west, we'll cop our invest-
ments -- all the way to the bank......
We never forget to cause third world debt,
'Cos we've got Mammon to thank.....for.....

Chorus

Our aims parasitical,
How easy we're led
To back an unholy crusade.
But blessed by Leviticals,
It's gone to our head;
We'll not stop till Osama's been Laid
To rest as a martyr, so then we can barter
Cheap lives against what we purvey.
We move in like vultures, & trample on cultures,
Just looking for ways to make pay........

Chorus.

Rob

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 02:01 AM

Que Sera, Sera--It's a lousy song and not a peace song----but it's a very true statement and possibly even a practical realization to take note of given our almost total lack of any control over these/our situations as events unfold. Also" "Turn Turn Turn"---Keep in mind that to everything there is a season is a rather profound realization even if it is a part of the Bible. That's exactly why the old Chinese curse, May you live in interesting times ---is just that---a curse. It's all a huge crap shoot. And we're here and now ---so do what you must. Or do nothing. Whatever. No matter what you do, give it your best shot.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Genie
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 03:57 AM

How about "God On Our Side?"

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Lanfranc
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 06:51 AM

Thanks for the reminders about "Flag Decal" and "Cold Days of February".

The song I have been longing to sing, particularly since the bombing of Afghanistan started, is Randy Newman's "Political Science". All I've got to do is find an audience that has a healthy sense of irony!

For now, I'll content myself with Tom Paxton's "Peace will Come".

Peace will Come - let it begin with me!

Alan

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,DSJ
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 09:59 AM

I'm in total agreement with "Flag Decal" too. And am wondering (with the recent spate of school children being forced to say the pledge of allegiance) if we have any songs about being forced to "make the pledge"?

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 11:49 AM

Billy Joel's "we didn't start the fire" with outrage

ABBA"the winner takes it all" with victorius sadness

And if you ever have a need to be attacked by an audience in NC and killed, try playing Fernando BUT replace the words Fernando with Ossama , change the words Rio Grand with Pakistan. Kind of wierd to sing a song [[of DEFEAT]] from the perspective of unrepentent terrorists but it is quite "novel" all the same

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 12:20 PM

Can you hear the bombs, Osama?
I remember long ago
Another starry night like this
In the firelight, Osama
You were humming to yourself
And softly strumming your Qatar
I could hear the distant bombs
And sounds of Muslim calls were coming from afar

They were closer now, Osama
Every hour, every minute seemed to last eternally
I was so afraid, Osama
We were young and full of life
And all of us prepared to die
And I'm not ashamed to say
The roar of guns and cannons almost made me cry

There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, Osama
They were shining there for you and me
For tyranny, Osama
Though we never thought that we could lose
There's no regret
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Osama
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Osama

Now we're cold and dead, Osama
Since many years I haven't seen a rifle in your hand
Can you hear the bombs, Osama?
Do you still recall the fateful night
We crossed Afghanistan?
I can see it in your eyes
How proud you were to fight for Allah in this land

There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, Osama
They were shining there for you and me
For tyranny, Osama
Though we never thought that we could lose
There's no regret
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Osama

There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, Osama
They were shining there for you and me
For tyranny, Osama
Though we never thought that we could lose
And now you're DEAD
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Osama
Yes, if I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Osama

If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Osama

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,MAG at work
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 12:35 PM

Actually, that is "ANONYMITY is the last refuge of a scoundrel," above. A word to the wise.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 01:05 PM

Here is the corrected version

Hey Ossama you son of a bitch here is your swan song;to the tune Fernando

Can you hear the bombs, ossamo?

You remember long ago

Another starry night like this

In the cavelight, ossamo

You were humming to yourself

And softly strumming your Qatar

You could hear the distant bombs

And sounds of musslim calls were coming from afar

They were closer now, ossamo

Every hour, every minute seemed to last eternally

You were so afraid, ossamo

We were young and full of life

And all of us prepared to die

And I'm not ashamed to say

The roar of guns and bombers almost made me cry

There was something in the air that night

The stars and stripes, ossamo

They were flying here for you and me

For liberty, osaamo

Though you never thought that you could lose

There's no regret

If we had to do the same again

We would, my friends, oh you know

If we had to do the same again

We would, my friends, don't you know

Now you're cold and cold, ossamo

Since many years I haven't seen a rifle in your hands

Can you hear the bombs, ossamo?

Do you still recall the fateful night

We crossed Afghanistan?

I can see it in you eyes

How proud you were to fight for tryanny in this land

There was something in the air that night The stars and stripes, ossamo They were flying there for you and me For liberty, ossamo Though you never thought that you could lose There's no regret If I had to the same again I would, my fiend, ossamo

There was something in the air that night

The stars and strpes, ossamo

They were shining there for you and me

For liberty, ossamo

Though you never thought that you could lose

And now you're DEAD

If we had to do the same again

We would, my friends, oh you know

Yes, if we had to do the same again

We would, my friends , oh you know

If We had to do the same again

We would, my friends, don't you know

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: breezy
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 04:00 PM

The west is after a criminal and his gang to prevent a further repetition.The word 'war'has been misconstrued due to emotion and the U.S.A's poor command of English english.To remain pascifistic allows a bully to repeat his behavior.Offence is the best form of defence.Thank your own God that there are those who are prepared to put their own lives on the line in the cause of freedom because most of us are too scared.I do remember at every 11.00a.m on every 11th November and on most other days as well.Lets hear an anti terrorist song and sing it full blast at those who sanction such actions, but it will be actions in the end .Is it not anarchy the has drawn us into this situation? There is no song appropriate apart from 'we shall overcome'.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: BH
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 07:21 PM

Well---Breezy has said it succintly. WE SHALL OVERCOME.

If the Ossama parody is recorded---from above posts---I would appreciate a copy for airplay.

Bill H

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST,A Friend
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 08:09 PM

How sad that the handful of pro-retaliation folk in this forum can't stand the presence of people with a different point of view in one single thread.

Really, really sad.

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 10:21 PM

I am not a pro retalliation type. Have you bothered to recognize me as "a friend" ?

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Lanfranc
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 06:48 AM

I would very much like to see the perpetrators of the carnage of September 11 brought to justice, as I would those responsible for the Omagh bombing, Lockerbie, etc, indeed any who seek to gain power and influence by the bomb and the bullet rather than the ballot box.

Take a quick analogy. For as long as the "Troubles" have lasted, the identities and locations of many murderers and gangsters on both sides of the religio-political divide in Northern Ireland have been well known to the security services. Can you imagine the reaction in the US and elsewhere if the UK had despatched cruise missiles and other heavy ordnance to destroy these terrorists in their lairs? For some reason I have never quite fathomed, Israel has been permitted more licence in this respect, but much good has it done them.

We will not gain justice for the innocent victims of WTC by destroying what little remains of the Afghan infrastructure, with the inevitable "collateral damage" to innocent, starving civilians. Nor is it conceivably in our interest to alienate the Muslim world. "Jihad" is an emotive term, but so is "Crusade".

For too long Western governments, US and European alike, have tolerated the intolerable in the name of political expediency. The CIA trained bin Laden, and counted him an ally in the Cold War struggle in Afghanistan. Britain and the US armed Saddam Hussain as a counterweight to the perceived threat from Iran. Pinochet was a murdering bastard, but he was the CIA's murdering bastard. Taliban and the ruling elite in Saudi Arabia, are two sides of the same coin - perversions of the faith of Islam. Nobody suggested destabilising or deposing either before 11/9.

It is said that mankind does not learn from history. Now it seems that we cannot learn from recent events and experiences, and are doomed to repeat them on an evermore futile downward spiral.

If the words of a song can make people think, and I don't really think that the ABBA parody above has the power to do it, then so be it. Or is all dissent to be stifled?

"No-one likes us, don't know why, we may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try. All around, even our old friends put us down. Let's drop the big one, and see what happens."

"Your flag decal won't get you into heaven any more, they're already overcrowded from your dirty little wars."

"And bigots in the name of Christ, by thorny paths obscure and muddy, can fear to roam through years of cold; bewailing how their hands are bloody."

"My own life is all I can hope to control. Let my life be lived for the good of my soul, let it bring Peace."

Thank you Randy, John, Robin and Tom. And Bob and Phil and ...

Alan

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Max Tone
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 10:59 AM

Great piece, Alan. We ALL gotta appreciate the steepness of the learning curve, then climb it.

Sang "Cold February" last night in a pub in Innerleithen, home of the String Band in those days (Mike's still there.....)

Storming little Festival goin' down there. Let's hope they repeat it next year.

On a lighter note, how about:-

WE WILL ALL GO TOGETHER WHEN WE GO – Tom Lehrer

When you attend a funeral,
It is sad to think that sooner or
Later those you love will do the same for you.
And you may have thought it tragic,
Not to mention other adjec-
Tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.
(But don't you worry.)

No more ashes, no more sackcloth,
And an arm band made of black cloth
Will some day nevermore adorn a sleeve.
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too,
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.

And we will all go together when we go.
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we will all go together when we go.

We will all go together when we go.
All suffused with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance,
Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go.

Oh we will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be french fried potatoes by and by.
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie,
Yes, we will all fry together when we fry.

Down by the old maelstrom,
There'll be a storm before the calm.

And we will all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation
In that grand incineration,
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.

Oh we will all char together when we char.
And let there be no moaning of the bar.
Just sing out a Te Deum
When you see that I.C.B.M.,
And the party will be "come-as-you-are."

Oh, we will all burn together when we burn.
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn.
When it's time for the fallout
And Saint Peter calls us all out,
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn.

You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas.
Go directly, do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollars.

And we will all go together when we go.
Every Hottentot and every Eskimo.
When the air becomes uranious,
We will all go simultaneous.
Yes, we all will go together
When we all go together,
Yes we all will go together when we go.

Rob

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 04:37 PM

Hiders In Holes

These hiders in caves
Send young men to their graves
Dying they believe, in glory

These hiders from light
Talk boldly of fight
An unconvincing story

What is this cause?
These holy wars
The final sacrifice
Why are they willing?
For indiscriminate killing
And to pay the ultimate price

These hiders in holes
These sellers of souls
Market dealers in doom

These hiders behind skirts
Nurture their hurts
Long arms reaching out from the gloom

Cannot the confused
See their faith is misused
To create only more division
Receiving instruction
In death and destruction
From teachers with twisted vision

These hiders can lie
The dark blinding their eyes
Safe from the bombs that would kill them

These hiders may hide
They're safe inside
Let them have their holes……and then fill them

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: jaze
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 07:35 PM

Genie, I was going to say the same thing--especially the chilling last line "If God is on our side, he'll stop the next war"

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 01 - 08:13 PM

Max tone. Thank you for this all time classic by Tom Leherer

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: Genie
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 05:39 AM

Earlier versions of this song have been posted in other threads, but here's one that may fit this thread:

Valley Of the Shadow (Jeanene Pratt © 2001)

Moving on our journey to the promised land,
We were vilely ambushed by an unseen outlaw band.
Most of us survived it, but so many fell that day,
Many sisters, many brothers perished in the fray.

In shock and anguish, terrorized and filled with dread,
Our vision was blurred; we couldn't see the road ahead.
We knew it was a crossroads; beyond that it was not clear.
We couldn't find our direction through the smoke and our tears.

Could we make it through the Valley Of the Shadow?
Could we move ahead in spite of all our fears?
Could we feel beyond the hate? Could we see our way clear?
Could we reach beyond our rage, See the way through our tears?

We'd been living in a garden rich beyond compare--
Some had called it the promised land and wanted to stay there,
But the bounty of the garden was not shared by all;
There had been those among us who heard tomorrow's call.

Yes, many among us had envisioned what could be;
They had said, "We must push onward till the world can all agree
That there is no promised land when there is want outside the wall
And freedom's just another word till justice is for all."

They said, "Even through the Valley Of the Shadow,
We'll move ahead in spite of all our fears.
Though there be dust in our eyes, keep your eyes on the prize,
The promised land worth all our toil and tears."

Then the sky was filled with fire and we heard the thousands scream.
And we saw the buildings crumble, with so many hearts and dreams.
Now, some of us are cowering, frozen in our tracks.
Many cry for vengeance!
Some say we must turn back.

Our grief and rage could drive us like the wind
But with no clear direction, who knows where it ends?
Each path holds perils, foreseen or unknown,
And our zeal could be our downfall if we took the wrong way home.

Can we make it Through The Valley Of the Shadow?
Can we move ahead in spite of all our fears?
Can we feel beyond the hate? Can we see our way clear?
Can we reach beyond our rage, see the way through our tears?

Now, once again we're moving, our anger justified,
Assured in all our ardor that God is on our side,
But have we got our bearings enough to comprehend
Just where it is we're going, where it all might end?

Is the garden now the valley of the shadow?
Will tomorrow be hostage to our fears?
Are we greater than our hate? Will the dream be ever clear?
Can we channel this rage, see the way through our tears?

We can make it Through The Valley Of the Shadow.
We must move ahead in spite of fear.
We must rise above this hate till the vision is clear
When we reach beyond this rage, see the way through our tears.
When we reach beyond this rage, see the way through our tears

Subject: RE: Anti-war songs to fit the occasion
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:13 PM

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