Req/ADD: French folk songs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Artful Codger
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 06:57 PM

I suspect you meant to give the 1st verse 1st line correction as:
L'amour de moy s'y est enclose

The line you gave was the 1st line of the 2nd verse, which you'd given correctly.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:48 AM

Q, it is on Berthier's Mille chants, Book 1 page 23, or are your edition and mine different?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 05:29 PM

Monique, I looked in the "Table Alphabetique" and it is not listed there.
It is listed under "anciennes" p. 249, but unless one knew it was medieval, how would one find it?
"Table of Themes," which lists "Anciennes" is on p. 274.

Or does one have to have a gallic mind to use these most peculiar indices?

My eye happened to see "Moby Dick" listed as a folksong (which it isn't) but I couldn't find a page number for it.
(It is an instrumental, also used with a lyric, by Led Zeppelin, but I don't think that is the number referred to).

"Ya se van los pastores", a favorite folksong of mine (esp. as sung by Germaine Montero) is in the "Table Alphabetique" as "Ya se van" but not under the section folksong.

"'Tis a puzzlement."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:14 AM

Q, it's explained at the top of page 247 but it's in French.
To find what is actually in the book in alphabetical order (you need to check after you've removed le, la, l' or les if the title begins by any of these articles) you must go to p. 275.
In the table of themes, in each section, the first titles which are in lower case and italics ARE in the book, then there are titles mentioned in bold capitals with the name of their authors: those are NOT in the book, they're mentioned to let people know they exist.
In Berthier's 1000 chants, you'll find all the foreign songs listed in the table of themes in "Pays, terroirs" in which you first find the names of different countries or groups of countries then the names of different regions of France.

Now a word about "folk song": it doesn't have the same meaning in French (!). A "folk song" (English words) for us is any American traditional song with or without author(s). You might not consider all of them either folk songs or trad songs in your culture. They're usually the type you can listen in westerns or a song by Woody Guthrie and the like. We use "chanson folk" to mean French traditional songs that people such as Malicorne revived in the 70's. Traditional songs from whatever other country is a "chanson traditionnelle".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:14 PM

Monique, don't misunderstand, the Berthier volumes are an excellent resource for French songs, folk or other, but the indexes are difficult to use for one who is used to a different usage of terms.
I am considering copying the indexes, cut and paste, to see if I can make an alphabetical listing. (if I get the time!)

Treatment of articles doesn't seem to be consistent.

To continue this digression, which really doesn't belong here:
Seeing Stephen Foster's "Old Black Joe" listed as a folk song grates; Foster was one of the great U.S. song composers, and the song was spread by reams of sheet music and latterly many recordings.

"Moby Dick" seems to be by a modern French composer; your explanation that titles in caps are not in the volume explains why it couldn't be found. Certainly not a folk song in English usage.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: GUEST,Olga from Melbourne, Australia
Date: 21 May 13 - 06:27 PM

I would love to find the words and music for 'Amourette, petit bateau' which my Mum used to sing and play on piano.

Hopefully,

Olga

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Artful Codger
Date: 23 May 13 - 06:54 AM

Could it be "Bateau d'amour" by Charles Trenet, the chorus of which begins "L'amour est un petit bateau / Qui s´en va, tout joyeux, sur l´onde"?

YouTube: Reda Caire (1937): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsqXzMQtNPI

Lyrics can be found on several sites.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: GUEST,charlie
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:17 AM

I am working with some elderly people at the moment and we were singing songs about food. One of the men starting singing this wonderfulk song called "Le roi du vin" does anyone know this song and where I could locate it. The man's voice was frail and it was hard to follow. It would be much appreciated as we would like to include this in our show.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 11:26 AM

Charlie, would you have anything else as a clue apart from this title? This title reminded me of "Le roi d'Yvetot" (lyrics and tune here) who indeed "had four meals a day" but I can't think of any song called "Le roi du vin".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 12:40 PM

Charlie, do you recall any other lines?

Reminds me of "Chevaliers de la table ronde," although the line you give is not in the song (which has variants, however). See DT.

Could it be a lyric from Gounod's "Faust"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 02:32 PM

I also thought of "Chevaliers de la table ronde" because "Le roi du vin" might be "Le roi des buveurs" but without any other clue, it's impossible to tell.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: GUEST,diplocase
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 05:08 PM

Here's a French folk song I translated into a singable English version. I stayed as close as possible to the original, making changes only to find a rhyme. As anyone knows who has tried to write poetry in French and English, it's much easier to find a rhyme in French!

The series of CDs "Anthologie de la chanson Française" is great and has three albums of songs from the oral tradition and great liner notes.

The lyrics I translated are very slightly different from the ones sung by Marie-Noëlle Lemapihan, but the tune is the same. I think it captures the meaning and the ironic tone.

"Anthologie de la chanson française”CD - singer Marie-Noëlle Lemapihan

ADVICE TO THE BRIDE

Conseils à la mariée
(w/m Trad French-speaking Brittany, translated from French by Casey)

1.      From all the glens around, we gather here together
to see these lovers joined in wedlock bands forever
In love and happiness, In joy and sweet content,
they come together now, and may they not repent.

Nous voici descendus, du haut de ces villages
Nous voici rassemblés pour faire un mariage
Ils sont doux et heureux, les voilà tous les deux
Ils ont le cœur content, en voilà pour longtemps


2. Remember what you said, before the priest and parish
to love him as your self, to love him and to cherish
Be true to your true love, as he must also be
Obey your wedded lord, and love him tenderly

Ne te rappelles-tu pas ce qu’il a dit, le prêtre?
A dit la vérité, comme elle devait être :
Fidèle à votre époux, de l’aimer comme vous.
Fidèle à votre amant, de l’aimer tendrement


3. Now he is your lord, and some would say your master
So soon their vows they make, they break them even faster
true to you alone, and true until they die
true to you alone, but every word a lie

Quand l’on dit son époux, on dit souvent "son maître"
les hommes ne sont point doux, comme ils l’ont promis d’être:
fidèles, ils ont promis, le reste de leurs vies
fidèles, ils ont promis, mais ils ont bien menti!


4. Unto the bonny bride, we bring a-many’s a flower
That you may not forget, they’re withered in an hour
So you may understand, while in your blushes gay,
The roses in your cheeks they soon will fade away

Recevez ces bouquets, Madame la mariée
Recevez ces bouquets, prenez et regardez
C’est pour vous faire connaitre, aussi vous faire savoir
Que toutes vos belles couleurs flétriront comme ces fleurs

[alternate for the foregoing verse:
Recevez ce bouquet
Que nous venons vous tendre :
Il est fait de genêts
Pour vous faire connaitre, aussi vous faire savoir
Que tous les vains honneurs
Passent comme des fleurs.]

5. Unto the bonny bride, we bring the fine white bread-o
We bring you cakes and ale, a table fine to spread-o
That you may not forget your bread is won with pain
So you may understand you first must win the grain.
Recevez ces gâteaux, Madame la mariée
Recevez ces gâteaux, prenez et en mangez
C’est pour vous faire connaitre, aussi vous faire savoir
Que pour les bien manger, il faudra les gagner!

[Variante de ce dernier couplet:
Recevez ce gâteau
Que ma main vous présente.
Il est fait de façon à vous faire comprendre
Qu’il faut pour se nourrir travailler et souffrir.]
[Si vous avez, Bretons,
Des bœufs dans vos herbages
Des brebis, des moutons, des oisillons sauvages
Il faut leur conseiller, de mieux se rappeler.
Songez, soir et matin qu’à leur tour ils ont faim.]

6. My money and my land, unto my lord are rendered
Farewell my liberty, no more to be remembered
Farewell, my native place, farewell my parents kind
Let no one speak to me of what I leave behind

Adieu Chateaubriande, le château de mon père
Où j’ai été élevée, en faisant bonne chère
Adieu plaisirs et joies d’une enfant comme moi
Adieu ma liberté, il n’en faut plus parler

7. It’s no more to the May, and no more to the fair-o
No more ribbons gay, to flyte the young men there-o
We all will go and dance, while you will meekly bide
It’s you will keep the house, my bonny little bride!

Vous n’irez plus au bal, Madame la mariée
Vous n’irez plus aux bals, aux bals et assemblées
Vous resterez à regarder, tandis que moi j’irai,
À garder la maison, mon joli cœur mignon!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 06:32 PM

Conseils à la mariée by Marie-Noëlle Lemapihan. A slightly different version can be found here, page 57 (article in French from 1935 with some songs about engagement and wedding).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 07:24 PM

Great thread! A coupla comments...

It would never be Blanche Biche. It would be Biche Blanche.

If we know who wrote it, that doesn't make it not a folk song. (Does it?)

It's Il était une bergère (once there was a sheperdess), not Elle était une bergère (she was a sheperdess). And *that* is a song not for American kids! The way I learned it she kills her cat and is sorry, end of song. But then I looked it up and it goes on to her going to the priest for absolution and the penance is he gets to kiss her! And he likes it so he does it again! Eewwww!

And to add a song: Il était un petit navire (in which the starving sailors draw straws/lots to see whom to eat, the chosen little boy prays and zillions of fish jump into the ship). Great song.

For the Canadian side I recommend the whole double album called J'ai vu le loup, le renard, le lion.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 07:45 PM

Mrzzy, you do find some "blanc/blanche-quelque-chose" in old stuff, poetry or songs as in Old French, you could say so (Ordre des adjectifs épithètes). Cf. La blanche hermine by Gilles Servat, La rue des Blancs-Manteaux by Juliette Gréco, Iseult aux blanches mains, sans oublier le blanc-manger que tu prépares de tes blanches mains!

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 09:36 PM

Oops! Sorry for the misspelling Mrrzy. There's also "La bave du crapaud n'atteint pas la blanche colombe!" when someone tells you something mean et bien sûr, "Blanche-Neige".

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 09:50 AM

Poetic license, granted, merci me chère!

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 04:12 PM

A song from Brittany attributed to Pierre Certon (ca 1510/1515 - 1572)

DÉJA MAL MARIÉE Mon père m'a mariée À un tailleur de pierre, Mon père m'a mariée À un tailleur de pierre, Le lendemain de mes noces M'envoie-t-à la carrière, la. Déjà mal mariée, Déjà mal mariée, gué. Refrain : Déjà mal mariée déjà Déjà mal mariée, gué Déjà mal mariée, déjà Déjà mal mariée, gué Le lendemain de mes noces M'envoie-t-à la carrière, Le lendemain de mes noces M'envoie-t-à la carrière, Et j'ai trempé mon pain Dans le jus de la pierre, la Déjà mal mariée, Déjà mal mariée, gué. (Refrain) Et j'ai trempé mon pain Dans le jus de la pierre, Et j'ai trempé mon pain Dans le jus de la pierre, Par là vint à passer Le curé du village, la. Déjà mal mariée, Déjà mal mariée, gué. (Refrain) Par là vint à passer Le curé du village, Par là vint à passer Le curé du village, "Bonjour Monsieur le Curé J'ai trois mots à vous dire, la. Déjà mal mariée, Déjà mal mariée, gué. (Refrain) Bonjour Monsieur le Curé, J'ai trois mots à vous dire, Bonjour Monsieur le Curé, J'ai trois mots à vous dire : Hier, vous m'avez fait femme, Aujourd'hui faites-moi fille, la. Déjà mal mariée, Déjà mal mariée, gué. (Refrain) Hier, vous m'avez fait femme, Aujourd'hui faites-moi fille, Hier, vous m'avez fait femme, Aujourd'hui faites-moi fille. De fille, je fais femme, De femme je n' fais point fille, la." Déjà mal mariée, Déjà mal mariée, gué. (Refrain)

ALREADY BADLY MARRIED My father married me off To a stonemason, My father married me off To a stonemason, The day after my wedding, He sent me to the quarry, la*. Already badly married, Already badly married, gay*. Chorus: Already badly married, already Already badly married, gay Already badly married, already Already badly married, gay. The day after my wedding, He sent me to the quarry, The day after my wedding, He sent me to the quarry, And I dipped my bread In the stone juice, la. Déjà mal mariée, Already badly married, Already badly married, gay. (Chorus) And I dipped my bread In the stone juice, And I dipped my bread In the stone juice, There happened to pass by The village priest, la. Already badly married, Already badly married, gay. (Chorus) There happened to pass by The village priest, There happened to pass by The village priest, "Good morning, Father I must tell you a few words, la. Already badly married, Already badly married, gay. (Chorus) Good morning, Father I must tell you a few words, Good morning, Father I must tell you a few words: Yesterday, you made a wife of me, Today, make a girl of me, la. Already badly married, Already badly married, gay. (Chorus) Yesterday, you made a wife of me, Today, make a girl of me, Yesterday, you made a wife of me, Today, make a girl of me. Of a girl I make a wife, Of a wife I make no girl, la." Already badly married, Already badly married, gay. (Chorus)

*la either spelled "la" or "là" has no meaning here. "gué/gai" (or "ô gué") can be found in old songs to express joy. Here it's more about rhyming with "mariée".
I've seen "jus de la pierre" translated as "stone sap". Whether you word it as "juice" or "sap" as stone has neither of them it just shows how hard her life was.

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:01 PM

Here is a link to the song this reminded me of...

https://youtu.be/tL-g9XnZM3w

I can't understand any of the commentary...

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:02 PM

Oops blicky

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Monique
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 01:34 AM

Commentary on "Mon père y m'a marié": "Je kiff" (/je kiffe) = "j'aime" = I like (it). From the verb "kiffer", itself from "kif", a blend of pot and tobacco smoked in North Africa. From it > French colloquial verb "kiffer" meaning to smoke kif and the bliss felt when smoking. From this bliss > "kiffer" = to like.

Subject: RE: Req/ADD: French folk songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jun 21 - 08:54 AM

Depuis quand or rather pourquoi is Quand les hommes vivront d'amour not a folk song? I know we know who wrote it, but I don't see how that makes it not a folk song.

And I will find a new link to that video.

Subject: Lyr Add: J'AI PERDU LE DO DE MA CLARINETTE
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 10:21 AM

This is a popular children’s song.


J'AI PERDU LE DO DE MA CLARINETTE

J'ai perdu le do de ma clarinette
J'ai perdu le do de ma clarinette
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Il dirait "ohé"
Il chanterait "ohé"
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas

J'ai perdu le do, le ré, le mi de ma clarinette
J'ai perdu le do, le ré, le mi de ma clarinette
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Il dirait "ohé"
Il chanterait "ohé"
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas

J'ai perdu le do, le ré, le mi, le fa, le sol de ma clarinette
J'ai perdu le do, le ré, le mi, le fa, le sol de ma clarinette
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Il dirait "ohé"
Il chanterait "ohé"
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas

J'ai perdu le do, le ré, le mi, le fa, le sol, le la, le si de ma clarinette
J'ai perdu le do, le ré, le mi, le fa, le sol, le la, le si de ma clarinette
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la
Il dirait "ohé"
Il chanterait "ohé"
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas

Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas
Au pas, camarade, au pas, camarade
Au pas, au pas, au pas

* * *
I have listened to several recorded versions of this song, and have found several variants:
1. Sometimes, instead of being a cumulative song, as illustrated above, the various notes are substituted for, rather than added to, the previous notes; thus the second verse would have: “J'ai perdu le ré de ma clarinette.”
2. Sometimes line 4 of the song is “Il me tap'rait sur les doigts, tra-la-la” or “J'me f'rais taper sur les doigts, tra-la-la” instead of repeating “Ah, si papa savait ça, tra-la-la.”
3. Sometimes the middle lines “Il dirait ‘ohé’/Il chanterait ‘ohé’” are omitted.

I have never heard a recorded version with more than 3 verses.