BS: In love with a married man

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST,been there, been bruised
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 11:04 AM

And now, a word from the other side. I'm a married woman who's recently ended a very loving relationship with a single man. As many have said, the guilt and deceit just aren't worth it. It's been helpful to read all these comments - I'd have to agree that my overall take on the whole situation is life sucks. Then again, I'm always telling my 5-year old daughter that no-one promised her life would be fair.

But I'd have to disagree that just because someone strays once, they are likely to do it again. There's no way I would put myself through this pain again. I chose my commitment to my husband and kids over what feels like the love of a soul mate, and I don't regret it. My husband says he's willing to change to try and fill the emptiness I perceive in our relationship. I probably wouldn't have noticed the emptiness in my marriage if not for the contrast with the love I feel for this other person. Still I don't recommend having an affair to improve your marriage. I'm hurting, he's hurting, the only saving grace is that my husband doesn't know. I don't want to let this love go - it's taking all the self-control I have to not do everything I can to bring him back. Only time will tell if all the joy we shared was worth the pain.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST, There right now
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 01:46 PM

To been there been bruised: My wife is in a mid life crisis supposedly prompted by the reappearance of her old flame. That's what made her feel the inadeuacies of our marriage. He's married with young children, as we are. (Yes, DougR: His wife doesn't understand him!) She is leaving me and trying to get him to leave his wife. She didn't even try for an amiable parting of the ways, though, never mind a restructuring of our relationship. Instead she tried to trick me, then scream me out of the home to abandon custody of the children. It's a bizarre world.

Dazed and confused: I can't tell whether there are kids on either side of your equation. If not, then whatever, I guess. Go do the feelgood thing. If so, then consider the karma gods. (My wife told me I will go to hell for this. (Not abandoning custody.) Go figure. I suppose I'll meet her boyfriend's wife down there.)

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 02:29 PM

Of course dazed and confused might be a bloke himself which would complicate matters even more...

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST,Dazed & confused
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 02:40 PM

Hello been there, been bruised. I know what you mean about using all your self-control to not to try to bring him back. I hope 'my' he would have the sense not to come back if I tried, but I'm not confident of that, so I can't see that any contact in the future can be possible. So a good friendship has been lost. What is stopping me is still selfish, because although I'm sad & miss him - I have more peace than I've been for months. Sometime in the future I hope I'll meet somebody else - but I will sure find out if he's married very early on. . Hello there right now, I hope you & your children are holding up. & I completely agree about the bizarreness. Too true. . Best wishes to both of you.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST,Dazed & confused
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 02:45 PM

To McGrath of Harlow - no I'm not a bloke (BG)

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 05:43 PM

I think Llanfair summed it up well. People change. I am not available myself, but have become very fond of someone who is. I have said and done nothing about it, and don't intend to, though I think if I were available, it would be mutual. But I couldn't do that to my spouse and children, even though my spouse and I are no longer well-matched. Sometimes just having a friend has to be enough.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST,been there, no regrets
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 06:09 PM

i had a relationship with a married man for three plus years. we had a wonderful time holidays drunken nights out great sex...but he didn't leave his wife and i didn't ask him to. I was happy but now i know i was missing out and it wasn't real. I finshed it four and a half years ago. I still think about him loads, I adored him and he helped make me what i am now. But i hate to think about his poor wife and how she must have suffered and I would never do it again (i hope). Two weeks after I finished with him i met my current partner and fell madly and deeply in love. He is honest and honourable and lovely and we have the full relationship as a proper couple, no guilt, no secrets no hurt. The ex meanwhile is still having affairs and looking for sex and somehow now he seems seedy. Stay strong and you will meet your knight in shining armour! good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 08:59 PM

Just thought I'd mention this...

A happily married couple who are close friends of mine are both on their second marriage. Nothing unusual in that? Aah... first time around they were married to each other's ex's!!

A very unusual situtaion - but the exception proves the rule. All four remained friends - but then, there was no conflict of interest to confuse matters.

Hmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Peg
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 11:53 PM

(sigh)

what about being in love with someone who has a girlfriend or boyfriend?

Too many people trying to practice polyamoury don't walk their talk, unfortunately.

This topic is very close to home just now.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 01:58 AM

I think everyone has had conflicts like this at some time or another... 'swans may mate for life, but I'm no swan' as my friend Fin used to say...

I've done the married man thing, and I hope I gave him the confidence to know he was an attractive person, despite what his (now former) wife told him..... whilst she was off having an affair with someone else, she destroyed his confidence so much by sniping and bullying that he thought he was trapped forever because no-one else would ever want him..... Last I hear he was happy with his new wife and she had her comeuppance.... sometimes the other woman has a job to do.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 09:41 AM

When the marriage promise is "till death do you part," yes, it is assumed to be a commitment to a lifetime.

When one finds that one cannot keep that commitment, a marriage ends. It is not saying that the idea of that commitment did not make sense, necessarily-- it says, "I goofed. I can't, with you, for life." It acknowledges one's own responsibility.

Sometimes a new relationship starts.

What I think most of us said was, don't crap around on an existing commitment... a commitment is a commitment, made in good faith. It's not sound relationship-building to start a new one, while still committed to another one. It would be like starting a new fulltime job while deeply engaged in sensitive long-term project in another fulltime job. If you wanted to leave your job, you'd try to wrap up what you could before even looking, wouldn;t you? And you'd give notice? And you'd finish one job's last work day before starting the new job? You wouldn't work both of them fulltime at once, would you?

I can tell you from personal experience that the dynamic in a till-death marriage is different, every day, from the dynamic in a for-now marriage or relationshp-- whatever the basis for entering into it. It just is. I am not commenting on which is better-- but they differ, a lot, on many levels.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 07:34 PM

It would be like starting a new fulltime job while deeply engaged in sensitive long-term project in another fulltime job. If you wanted to leave your job, you'd try to wrap up what you could before even looking, wouldn;t you? And you'd give notice? And you'd finish one job's last work day before starting the new job? You wouldn't work both of them fulltime at once, would you?

But sometimes it's impossible to finish one job. If I had to empty my desk before I left on Friday, I'd never get away, because as soon as one pile is done, another is passed on to me. Sometimes you just have to hand the shit over to someone else and draw a line. You really do need to know when to walk away and when to just put it to one side.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 07:59 PM

Yes, of course, but you would not start all the whole batch of new projects till you'd done that, would you? You'd draw the line first?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: John J
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:23 AM

This must be a very painfull and gut-wrenching time for you, Dazed & Confused.

Thanks for posting here. I'm sure some of us can feel the pain for you (from experience).

Thanks (from me) also to all who have given their wise opinions and advice.

You are obviously a strong person, good luck for your future.

Best wishes,

John

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:30 AM

I can tell you from personal experience that the dynamic in a till-death marriage is different....

yes, Susan, but back in the real world... some of us have given everything, and more, to make a marriage work 'til-death , when that marriage had no chance of doing so in the circumstances. It takes two to make this marriage thing work- and sometimes it doesn't. Implied criticism of those who are already suffering and dealing with the consequences, from your moral high ground/marital contentment, could be taken to be offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: John J
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:42 AM

Good and very valid points Noreen.

John

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Larry124
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 04:31 PM

I'll bet the persons INSIDE these unconventional relationships, as personal, and intimate, and emotional and difficult as they are, are really glad that complete strangers can read a few words and have it all figured out, what to do and not do, who's at fault, and so on. What a bunch of self-righteous busybodies.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Llanfair
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 05:18 PM

Some of us have been there, Larry, and know how it can feel. The subject was brought up to seek advice and reassurance that there are, or have been, others in the same kind of situation.
No-one has it figured out, just want to tell how it was, or is, for them.
"There is a flower, I've heard them say,
It's called heartsease by night and day,
I wish I could that flower find,
It would ease my heart and my troubled mind"
Bron.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 05:37 PM

"There's still a little community though. It's in forums like this one, warts and all. I'm glad."

You write this Larry124?

Sorry your day isn't going so well - been there and done that *G*

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 06:23 PM

Noreen, I was speaking to another point that had been raised, and if you will read and quote my entire post you will see I specifically did not state a moral position. You have responded with your own agenda to a point I did not and would not make, and you have assumed experience on my part you know nothing about. It's easy to make a slam, to get at your own point, but it's a little harder to be accurate at this distance.

Please speak from your own experience, as I did-- not in contrast to what you assume is mine, if you want to comment responsibly rather than start an argument with me by putting words and thoughts in my heart that ain't there.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:23 PM

Maybe it's the way you say things then Susan- funny how people are always taking you the wrong way.

Me, I'm neither entering into an argument, nor pontificating.

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 09:56 PM

Noreen,

People take me the wrong way because they choose to look at me through self-imposed filters on what I say. I've let enough of it go unchallenged that there is quite a lot of misconception about what I actually do in the world and how I think about things.

If you want to characterize that as arguing, feel free, but I think of it as correcting a sloppy and skewed record, and speaking for myself instead of allowing the negtivity of others to stand in my place.

If you want to get into how many people do or do not take offense at how I write, and what I write about, the numbers are with me, BTW-- I just happen to be enough of an adult to encourage my friends to stay out of the fray when someone starts it up as you did with your post.

I am perfectly happy to take responsibility for what I say and what I mean. But I am all done taking responsibility for what people want to insist I must have meant because they are hampered from a good view by their blinders.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 10:55 PM

I figure falling in love with a married person involves some basis math. Marriage is like a fruit pie. A marriage = one whole pie. If the married person is missing 1/4 piece of pie in their marriage, then you get to fill in that 1/4 piece missing, which means the married person gets a full pie. What do you get? You only get 1/4 of the pie while the rest of your pie plate remains empty. Doesn't sound like a fair deal to me.

Miss Little Neo

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 11:26 PM

exactly my bonniebanjophyte...

personally...i just love it when two people who i love and respect argue here....

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:35 AM

yes, Susan, but back in the real world... some of us have given everything, and more, to make a marriage work 'til-death , when that marriage had no chance of doing so in the circumstances.

Yes, Noreen the real world... you seem to have made some pretty definitive, gratuitous assumptions about the world I live in. In the real world where I live, I have often been the one to come in the middle of the night to take the Mrs. out of a beating. In my real world, I have been the one to escort a lady to the lawyer.... in my real world, I have cleaned up the wreckage left by someone who bailed out, and I've raised her two children... In my little corner of the real world, I've reached out to and spoken up for people who have been in the situation you describe so painfully, when other churches and clergy have denied them the Sacrament and treated them like lepers. In fact I grew up in that sort of real world, and I was my mother's strongest supporter from the age of 13 on, when she created peace in our home by ending the abuse that had taken it over.

Noreen, I support with action my belief in people's right to decide how to live, for themselves. Not quite what you assumed, I think?

It takes two to make this marriage thing work- and sometimes it doesn't.

Yes, I referred to this in my own post, which you seem to have missed in your eagerness to set me straight from YOUR moral high ground.

Implied criticism of those who are already suffering and dealing with the consequences, from your moral high ground/marital contentment, could be taken to be offensive.

This thread was about someone asking for advice. Several other people posted about completely different situations as though what they had experienced were parallel, and it isn't. I commented based on how far off the mark I thought their "help" was, in relation to the topic of this thread. I questioned the logic's applicability to the situation first presented.

Noreen, you just were off base, and I think it would be mature of you to acknowledge it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 11:22 AM

Susan, it was the implication from your original post that those who did not stay in a marriage 'til death had failed, or in some way had been in error (unless "I goofed" means something else that I am not aware of.)

That implication of failure is what upset me, and that is what I was finding fault with. There is enough hurt and self-blame at the end of a marriage without it being added to by outsiders.

I apolgise that due to my personal sensitivities, and my awareness of the sensitivities of others who would be upset by that implication, my comment came out as critical of you personally. That was not the intention.

Perhaps, instead of sending me offensive PMs, you could be mature enough to consider whether everything you write is as perfect as you think?

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 01:09 PM

Noreen, I meant by GOOF that one might have goofed in thinking, when one made the commitment to the person in question, that this was a person to whom one could sustain a commitment-- that the choice of person may have been the problem, not the choice to commit. That is what that whole part of my post says. It casts it in terms that one has simply made a mistake and intends to act to correct it-- as opposed to beating oneself up about being a failure and trying to stick it out when it's clear that's not warranted. Are you in the UK? Is that a term that carries a different meaning for you? Could it be that US vernacular is simply foreign to you? You objected to a word in my PM, too-- is there a problem with communication across cultures here, as well?

Perhaps, instead of sending me offensive PMs, you could be mature enough to consider whether everything you write is as perfect as you think?

First, when you go out of your way to be petty toward me, it is going to make me mad, and once in awhile I am going to use PMs to express this, and that is part of the purpose they serve. If you find this offensive then I would say, welcome to my world, where I get offensive PMs from time to time based on nothing I have even said or done. If you had brought your criticism to me first in a PM, we'd be ironing it out and laughing by now, not arguing on a street conrer, but you started this one and I am not going to leave your insensitive and skewed view of me to speak for me, as I have said above.

Second, where do you get the idea that I think what I write is perfect, and what makes you think it helps clear up a misunderstanding you tried to take resposnibility for, to close your post with another snide coment aimed at me?

I think it is actually the argument you desire, not the resolution, and not, I am pretty sure, to help anyone posting in this thread.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:31 PM

Shall we just say it's crappy all round and leave it at that?

Every situation is different. Time is a great leveller. Give it time, give it space, come back later when you can see the wood for the trees.

Now how about we kill this argument?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: TheMuse
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 10:41 PM

Little Neo

I agree with your math . . . . . unless the person that is only getting the 1/4 of the pie also has 3/4 of their own pie. Then they end up with a whole pie too.

TM

Subject: RE: BS: In love with a married man
From: GUEST,bella
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 12:44 AM

....and then how do you manage living in a single world for a decade or so....it's a couple's world. Do you seize the chance to exit out out of aloneness?

My life is pretty full (and generally happy). I've experienced "falling in love" with a coupled person, and years down the track, I pleased I just breathed thru it - he remains a dearly loved friend, and his wife some how or other accomodated our close friendship.

But... sometimes I feel sad - go to the beach, see couples; go to a cafe, see only couples; go to my folk club...

Oh dear, maybe I just need to leave town for a while.