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BS: Bush's press conference last night.
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST,BE# Date: 23 Oct 01 - 08:03 PM I totally agree Little Hawk. Imagine what the human race could accomplish if we all worked together. There's one problem with that. Greed. It will always exist as long as humans do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: kendall Date: 23 Oct 01 - 08:06 PM I once saw a John Wayne movie called "Hondo". He said to a young man, "Dont ever apologize, it's a sign of weakness." I wanted to puke. Doug, nobody, Troll etc. the fact is, we started the terror ball rolling, and, as is often the case, it is now running over us. Remember, denial is more than a river in Africa. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: DougR Date: 23 Oct 01 - 09:46 PM But Kendall. You offer no plans of action for the current situation! You only dwell on the sins of the past. 'Tis 2001, six thousand people have been killed in an attack on our country, others have died from the Anthrax attacks, which may or may not have been caused by the Terrorists; what would you do? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST, I, hurricane Date: 23 Oct 01 - 10:21 PM Let's all sing around the campfire: How many sins must one nation own before they beg peace from the world yes and how many times must they stand and confess before they won't take any more the answer my friend is in Afghanistan [last line fill it in any way you like] [this is too easy; I've got about ten verses already, but no one would like them except me. how many gallons of jet fuel, etc.] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST,just a nobody Date: 23 Oct 01 - 10:32 PM Guest Did you actually read my post? I mentioned that I had followed several links and could not find anything to CONFIRM the accusations. So I come back and say that very thing and to you I am lazy... lets see... people will lay out an accusation without evidence then when someone says, "I don't see what you are seeing, please show me." They are lazy, or too stupid. Or perhaps, just perhaps, you don't have the evidence. It is far easier just to condemn those that do not agree rather than post something to help you prove your point, isn't it GUEST. Just so you know, I spent hours following links that others provided here. And I still could not find anything other than circumstantial evidence, that would tie them to many of the atrocities people are speaking of. Little Hawk, I hope you are not thinking that I am against the idea of brotherhood. But, who lays down the rules for brotherhood? Do we? Does the Middle East? The Soviets? China? Who would decide on what would constitute this brotherhood? I know most people would say, 'it would be built upon a common ground of human rights and equality.' That sounds great, but we have a variety of beliefs about human rights, don't we? Some cultures believe that female children can be killed, or that families don't have the right to have more than two children. Some cultures believe that women should not be seen by any man but thier husbands. Some Cultures believe in poligamy.... What do you do with those that will not give up thier culture? You think the middle east will just adopt your view of human rights? Do you think China will? Are you willing to live in a world where women would be treated only slightly better than those under the Taliban? After all, who is to say that their culture will not be the one that 'human rights' is modled after. Unless of course, you are talking about creating a new culture, where all other belief is tossed aside. You say you are 'enlightened' and that those that do not support a brotherhood of man is not. Enlightened is often not the same as realistic. I am a realist, while I may agree with you that the world could (stress could) be a better place, I am realistic enough to see the issues that prevent that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: kendall Date: 23 Oct 01 - 10:32 PM I would be doing everything in my power to turn the rest of the Muslim world against the Taliban. That would include feeding the common people, and, getting our troops off the sacred ground in Saudi Arabia. This is one of the biggest insults to the Taliban, and, there is no good reason to have them there anyway. (Unless you count oil) It will do little good to take out Bin Laden, it would be like cutting off one of the Hydras heads. There is no way to really beat these bastards, all we can do is keep upping the ante, and they will do the same until we tire as we did in Viet Nam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST,just a nobody Date: 23 Oct 01 - 10:58 PM Kendal, I really hope that you don't believe that our military presence is the only reason this is happening. The AlQuada are mercenaries, that have now proven that they can hit and damage, one of the strongest nations in the world (militarily speaking). Their stock is greatly increased. You think that pulling our troops out will disarm the situation. That is what the Phillipenes thought too... didn't end the terrorist attacks. Didn't stop people from being slaughtered. It only means we are farther away to intervene. But that's ok, I suppose, as long as we do not appear to be trying to dominate. Of course, Suadi Arabia did request the US to assist in defense. But that is nothing, means nothing. And what do you think Isreal would do if we pulled out of the middle east. What do you think the other countries that do not recognize thier Right to Exist will do? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: DougR Date: 24 Oct 01 - 12:52 AM kendall: Your first sentence makes a lot of sense. We are already feeding the common people, but the Saudis don't really seem to mind our troops being based there so I don't understand why the Taliban has anything to do with that. They may not like it, but they don't control Saudi Arabia. So you have tossed in your chips! Given up! Sad to hear. I doubt you know one Taliban folk song so you've got a lot of homework ahead of you if you are right in your suggestion that it is hopeless. That the terriorists can't be defeated. I don't know for sure if this is true, but I've heard or read somewhere that Bin Laden can't abide folk music, and has vowed vengence on all folk singers in the state of Maine. According to the report, he had a friend who had three legs and word reached him that a folk singer in that state had recorded a song that he considered disrespectful of three legged people. Good luck, old friend, he's probably gonna getcha' :>) DougR
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:53 AM "just a nobody" - Nope. I am not suggesting that you or anyone else on this forum is against brotherhood. I think we all share high ideals for humanity, we just don't agree on how to pursue them in the most effective way. In discussions like these, I get caught between 2 considerations... 1. My own spiritual path in life. 2. Day to day practical matters. You see, I believe I've already lived a great many lives. I don't believe that because I was brought up in some religion that told me so, either, I was brought up as a rational atheist. I had personal experiences later which convinced me of having lived previous lives. Since I am now absolutely sure that my soul CANNOT die, though my body can and will, I tend to look way beyond just this mortal life. That's partly why I look far ahead to what human society could achieve in the way of brotherhood, and I am willing to wait a long time for it. Having killed and been killed, I've had enough of it. Having been killed enough times, I also find it easier to forgive now, cos I know how transitory these events really are in the greater scheme of things. Souls simply cannot die. I am the kind of person who would rather, at this point, be in a spiritual ashram, and work on my own inner development there in a quiet way. There are such places. But I have some other committments right now, so I haven't made that move yet. It's hard for me to discuss political issues without bringing very long range viewpoints into them. I know that human nature is perfectable. I know that society is perfectable. I also know that we're a long way off at this juncture, but I've seen some general progress in my life. Quite a bit, actually. It's been offset, though, by commercial domination of people's lives that has gone way out of control. I am always caught in the struggle of...okay...to what level do I take my comments on this subject, and it's kind of tricky, cos if people don't get it on the same level, then they may place the wrong interpretation entirely on what I say. I hope that helps explain some of what may seem to be my far out statements here and there. I feel sometimes like a very old immortal soul that's watching young, passionate people play what to me are tired old games...and I think "Why don't they just stop?" But to them, those games are real. The "patriot game" is one of them. Buying Gap clothing to be "cool" is another. There are a million games out there. It would probably be easier to just believe it all and go along with the crowd and play too...but I can't do that anymore. I no longer care who wins the "World Series". It simply doesn't matter to me. For those to whom it does matter...well, by all means play the game or cheer the team, because that's your chosen path of experience, and that's your right by free will...and it probably suits you are serves you well. And I'm not suggesting I'm better than any one of you...just on my own chosen path. Same as you. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 01 - 06:19 AM hawk, You are to be commended as a man who thinks for himself. Some do not, probably parroting their favorite radio shows , religious dogma, media hype or platitudinous ignorance. These times should concentrate the mind. Panic that disables action should be overcome. Hiding from reality of real possibilities should be overcome. In a chaotic episode you must tend to yourself. You can not expect any relief or to be taken care of for 1 - 6 months. Do the terrorists/Taliban/Iraq/... have the ultimate bio weapons? YES they demonstrated their use of ebola (Criemean Hemmorragic fever) against a Northern Afghani settlement 24 days ago. The isolated town had over 100 fatalities. IT was a demonstration but not recognized as such by media. We are as a public being prepped by the media to cope with small pox. This is not a cruel hoax by our Government but the most likely scenario they dread.
The everything is fine attitude is a disservice to all but little children. If it is panic that will empty cities when a plague descends or common sense is for each of you to decide. Is it patriotic to try and save your life? Of course. Depending on your job whether you stay or go is a personal choice. Unless CDC blockades make certain egress difficult there will be few safe areas but none so dangerous as the cities.
An isolated small pox attack has been simulated by our military and it resulted in a 1,000,000 fatalities. This has been known since 1995 yet preparedness or defense against such scenarios is virtually ZERO. We instead kept playing with star wars.
Folk wisdom says its better to be safe than sorry. If you can't be completly safe at least you can be a bit prepared. There are things you can do. If binary bio weapons, small pox and plague are used 10 -60 million casualties are anticipated - you may well be served with notions of reincarnation. ~ *G* The anthrax letter campaign is a soabox derby compared to the Indy 500 of bio war with the agents mentioned above.
Metaphor of the day -
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 01 - 07:08 AM Just a nobody. I don't need to prove a fucking thing to you or anyone else. No one "proves" anything by shooting off their mouth in Internet discussion forums about how our way is the only way, or by providing a few links to other websites. I've worked for Central American solidarity organizations since 1980. You, apparently, have read information posted at two websites. I remain wholly unimpressed by your expertise in US foreign policy in relation to current and past events, particularly in light of the fact that you are pig ignorant of the most recent US military and intelligence adventurism in Latin America. Any American who is that blind stupid ain't worth the time or the effort to inform, as they've already decided it doesn't matter what gross injustices, what illegal, unethical, inhumane acts the US government foists upon innocent civilians around the world--its MY country right or wrong. It is clear to me you'd rather have greedy militarists interested in making the big war bucks do your thinking for you. And isn't that just fine? Fuck you and the rest of you blood-thirsty good old boys. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:29 PM Donuel - Your post goes off in a few different directions, so I'm wondering what to say about it...? Let's say that a deadly epidemic is started, as you suggest, in North America. How far would it spread and how fast? Would it not quite likely spread through air travel right across to Europe, Africa, Asia, etc...right round the world? How do you suggest a person should respond to such an event...or to the possibility of such an event? I'm not inclined to panic, because I don't see what good it would do. Besides, ordinary life is burdensome enough at times, without panicking about things that haven't happened yet and may not happen. But, anyway, what specific courses of action are you recommending to people? - LH p.s. Like you, I "endure" my relatives. :-) I wonder if Bin Laden has used the term "endure" with regard to Bush? Probably not, I suspect...not dramatic enough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM Donuel would you please cite sources for the ebola "demonstration" and the "isolated smallpox attack"? I'm not from Missouri but you're gonna hafta show me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:58 PM See Bush is still Talking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: kendall Date: 24 Oct 01 - 05:02 PM Doug, I am a Taurus. We do not "give up" However, I am a thinking Taurus, and, my brain tells me this is going to be anything but a walk in the park. History has shown that upping the ante only leads to upping the ante. It's too bad that most people either hate history, or simply dont bother with it. I see another Viet Nam coming up, and, I have a 17 years old grand son. Also Doug, I'm pleased to see that you are showing your sense of humor! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST,Just a nobody Date: 24 Oct 01 - 05:28 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Jack The Lad Date: 24 Oct 01 - 05:50 PM GUEST,BE# "Every religion has a "fundamentalist" (extremist) group. Islam has the Taliban. Judaism has Zionists Christianity has Phalangists" ?? There are Jewish fundamentalists who are fanatics and extremists- but not all Zionists are fundamentalist fanatics. Zionism simply means love of and support for the Jewish State. The vast majority of Zionists recoil from fundamentalism, and extremism. I am a Zionist who is opposed to the occupation of Palestinian areas,and to war.So are most of the other Zionists I know. Jack The Lad
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Oct 01 - 06:25 PM Has the problem with slow browsers been corrected? Why is this thread at 168 posts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: DougR Date: 24 Oct 01 - 08:06 PM I'm curious, L.H. In any of your former lives, did you ever run into Shirley McClain? Kendall: Don't say I didn't warn you! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 01 - 08:25 PM Kim, no problem, I will get the Reuters link for you. It was explained away as something that happens in that part of the world. Little hawk your post regarding the School for the Americas is terrific. I would like to quote you. As for my post that went in different directions , it was due to copying my post from another site and pasting it here for reference. Guest, relax, I went from pillar to post with 'just a nobody' and have discovered a Jeckle and Hyde quality in his posts. Don't take it personally even if he does. In another direction, I heard it said it took 17 years of investigation to nab the unibomber. Then his brother turned him in. Perhaps by 2018 we will hve the anthrax letter bomber. A clue to me however is how much they sound like they were written by domestic black muslims. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Ebbie Date: 24 Oct 01 - 08:27 PM An isolated small pox attack has been simulated by our military and it resulted in a 1,000,000 fatalities. This has been known since 1995 yet preparedness or defense against such scenarios is virtually ZERO. I'm with Carol, Donuel. Please document the above statement. You say 'simulated'; does that mean that it was a 'virtual' exercise that projected that number of deaths? Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 01 - 11:07 PM Yes it was a military/CDC exercise with projected deaths. A contagion with a 5 day incubation period creates an exponential number of exposures. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 01 - 11:12 PM Afghan ebola link. this was the first one I came by. there are others. http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml%3B$sessionid$LABNQ1QAACAF1QFIQMFCFG%20GAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2001/10/04/wref04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/10/04/ixhome.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: DougR Date: 24 Oct 01 - 11:49 PM I assume the CDC/Military information upon which you base your post, Donuel, is public information, right? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Kim C Date: 25 Oct 01 - 11:18 AM Donuel why are you so certain the e-bola outbreak was something more than - an e-bola outbreak? It isn't like Afghanistan has the best sanitary conditions or anything like that. I mean, sure, you could be right - but it could also be nothing more than a cruel coincidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Oct 01 - 03:11 PM Doug - I haven't even run into Shirley MacLaine in this life! (But I have a tremendous amount of respect for her.) In my other lives I've run into millions of people, but I can't give you any of their names whatsoever...can't remember 'em at this point. I have dealt with certain individuals before, however...my parents, for example. The circumstances were quite different from now on the surface, but rather similar underneath the surface. I've been Mexican, German, British, Amerinidian, Roman, Japanese, male, female, and God knows what else besides. And that is all I'm telling you. :-) - LH p.s. I am unaware of ever having met anyone who is presently famous in any previous life. I know that's dull and unexciting, but is it all that surprising? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: Jack the Sailor Date: 25 Oct 01 - 04:21 PM The School of the Americas has been shut down. There is a new organization in its place. I've seen its charter. The Army has learned much from its mistakes. The new institute seems to be more about teaching young officers from other countries US values and the benefits of military cooperation with the US than anything else. Future classes will include Canadians. Its not about being perfect. Its what you do when you screw up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: GUEST Date: 25 Oct 01 - 06:18 PM School of the Americas shut down? I don't think so Jack. Renamed, yes. Shut down? No way. Annual protest will go on, as always, the weekend of November 16th near Ft. Benning. See School of the Americas Watch website for details and information. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. From: DougR Date: 26 Oct 01 - 01:51 AM L.H.: How about Kendall? Did you ever run into him in one of your previous lives? He was a Barbary pirate at one time I've been told. He reportedly raveged and despoiled all manner of beings on the high seas (which probably explains his penchant for four legged critters today). :>) GUEST: there would probably be an annual protest EVEN if it has been shut down. Those folks have to do something to keep busy on weekends, don't they? DougR |