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QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage

DigiTrad:
THE ROSE OF THE SAN JOAQUIN
TRAMPS AND HAWKERS


Related threads:
Origins: Tramps and Hawkers (154)
Chord Req: tramps & hawkers, ringer/russell vs tra (10)
Tune Req: Dots wanted for Tramps and Hawkers (3) (closed)
Tune Req: Tramps and Hawkers (8)


Paddy Plastique 15 Oct 01 - 11:47 AM
Malcolm Douglas 15 Oct 01 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,Boab 16 Oct 01 - 01:16 AM
GUEST,Dita (at work) 16 Oct 01 - 03:22 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 16 Oct 01 - 04:10 AM
alison 16 Oct 01 - 04:18 AM
Malcolm Douglas 16 Oct 01 - 06:10 AM
Susan of DT 16 Oct 01 - 06:40 PM
GUEST,Boab 17 Oct 01 - 03:01 AM
GUEST,Dita (at work) 17 Oct 01 - 08:47 AM
curmudgeon 17 Oct 01 - 05:31 PM
Susan of DT 17 Oct 01 - 06:38 PM
GUEST,Boab 18 Oct 01 - 01:22 AM
GUEST,David 16 Jun 12 - 11:09 PM
GUEST,Susanc 16 Jun 12 - 11:25 PM
Kit Griffiths 17 Jun 12 - 03:01 AM
bill\sables 17 Jun 12 - 03:15 AM
GUEST,Lighter 17 Jun 12 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,DonMeixner 17 Jun 12 - 11:55 PM
GUEST,Don Wise 18 Jun 12 - 04:27 AM
BobKnight 18 Jun 12 - 06:14 AM
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Subject: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 11:47 AM

Took a look recently at the DT entry for 'Come All Ye Tramps & Hawkers'. I linked to the midi file - which has a filename like PADWEST or something. The melody that resulted was that of 'Lakes of Pontchartrain'. I know it has been used on a rake of songs but is this link correct ? It's just that the filename has me a bit put off..

cheers PP


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Oct 01 - 12:06 PM

The tune nowadays usually known as Tramps and Hawkers has been used -in any number of variants- for a great many songs, including Paddy West and some sets of Ponchartrain.  These, and Tramps and Hawkers itself, are relatively recent songs; earlier, the tune was associated with some versions of Caroline of Edinburgh Town, for example.


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 01:16 AM

Somewhere in my chaotic filing system I have the lyrics of a song "Peggy of Greenlaw" which is sung to the "Tramps and Hawkers" tune. Anyone know of it, or its origins/history?


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: GUEST,Dita (at work)
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 03:22 AM

In the seventies I came across "Peggy of Greenlaw" in Ord's Bothy Ballads, where the words are given but no tune. I put them to the T&H tune, and started singing them around the West of Scotland folk clubs and festivals, and the song still makes occasional visits to my sets to this day.
I have not issued a recording of it, nor have I encountered any other recordings of the song, to any tune. I have passed the song on knowingly (and presumably un-) to other singers from time to time.
I have no idea whether I tapped back into tradition, and the song exists elsewhere sung to this tune, or whether I am the source of the song as you know it, either way Boab, find those words and start singing it again.
love, john


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 04:10 AM

Same tune is used in the Ewan McColl song 'On Englands Motorways' which is in the DT


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: alison
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 04:18 AM

and "the homes of Donegal"... popular little tune.....

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 06:10 AM

See also this previous discussion: Tramps and hawkers


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: Susan of DT
Date: 16 Oct 01 - 06:40 PM

Rather than enter the same tune many times for the various songs that use it, we usually have it in once with the words and filename of the first song it went in for and the other songs reference the same tunefile.


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 03:01 AM

John---did you ever sit with Derek Moffat [late of the MacAlmans]and a non-descript cotton bud in a Girvan pub a lot o' festivals back? Archie Fisher and a wee pal of mine from Chicago [Irvine based at the time] called Marilyn Middleton-Pollok were on the bill that weekend.If you did, you were the guy who passed the song my way!!!


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: GUEST,Dita (at work)
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 08:47 AM

The round, bearded spec wearing, also a friend of MMP, who played "Peggy o' Greenlaw" to you all those Girvans ago, was indeed myself Boab. It's a small world after all. Marilyn was back as a guest at Girvan a couple of years back, and was in great spirits despite having broken her ?shoulder-blade, a few days before the festival, what a trouper.
love, john.


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: curmudgeon
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 05:31 PM

The version in the DT (yes Ian, I looked there first) is virtually the same as that in the Kennedy anthology. However, while it does contain three of the verses MacColl included in "The Singing Island," it does omit one very fine verse. And, only my opinion, the other three verses sing better in MacColl's version. I can post this if there is interest.
.
It is also the tune for Davy Faa; and the McPeakes of Belfast recorded an instrumental version of the tune as "The Winding Streets of Erne.".
.
BTW, MacColl's song to this tune is titled "Come, Me Little Son," in both the MacColl-Seeger songbook and on the New Briton Gazette album...
.
Do avoid braxie ham -- Tom


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: Susan of DT
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 06:38 PM

A search for *padwest will show you the songs listing this as the tunefile


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers on DT
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 01:22 AM

Jeeze, John! Small world indeed, and a long way and some long years from Girvan to Vancouver Island! Last time I saw Marilyn was on a wood near Irvine---don't jump to conclusions[!!]---She had a bad case of tonsilitis [nae singin'] and was carrying a basket of brambles. We did a swap---I traded a pound of chantrelles for a pound of brambles. Glad to hear she still chants .


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: GUEST,David
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 11:09 PM

Whatever its origins this is the tune used by Bob Dylan for "I Pity the Poor Immigrant" on his John Wesley Harding Album.


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: GUEST,Susanc
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 11:25 PM

And "Rose of the San Juaquin" (spelling) by Jim Ringer.


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: Kit Griffiths
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:01 AM

I always thought that the tune was "The Durham Lockout" -but maybe Tommy Armstrong "adopted" it?


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: bill\sables
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:15 AM

Tommy Armstrong wrote Durham Lockout to the tune of Castles in the Air (Ball at Kerrymuir).It was only sung to Tramps & Hawkers when it was recorded on the Tommy Armstrong LP.
Bill


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:09 PM

I can't swear to it, but I think I once heard this tune used with the words of "The Wild Colonial Boy."


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 11:55 PM

I set my song "The Mother's Kiss," to this melody.

Don


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 04:27 AM

Dylan also used it for "The Ballad of Donald White".


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Subject: RE: QUERY Re Tramps & Hawkers tune usage
From: BobKnight
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 06:14 AM

Also "Hatton Woods" sung by Sheila Stewart


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