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Current Sad State of Political Folk Song

GUEST,A Youth Perspective 20 Oct 01 - 11:37 AM
Little Hawk 20 Oct 01 - 01:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Oct 01 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,faswilli2 20 Oct 01 - 02:50 PM
DougR 20 Oct 01 - 07:42 PM
Little Hawk 20 Oct 01 - 08:01 PM
GUEST 20 Oct 01 - 09:16 PM
Little Hawk 21 Oct 01 - 02:35 PM
alanabit 21 Oct 01 - 05:05 PM
DougR 21 Oct 01 - 05:21 PM
DougR 21 Oct 01 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,Frank 21 Oct 01 - 05:50 PM
InOBU 22 Oct 01 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,A Youth Perspective 22 Oct 01 - 08:29 AM
InOBU 22 Oct 01 - 10:05 AM
alanabit 22 Oct 01 - 01:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Oct 01 - 04:44 PM
BH 22 Oct 01 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,A Youth Perspective 22 Oct 01 - 06:30 PM
BH 22 Oct 01 - 06:39 PM
Gareth 22 Oct 01 - 06:43 PM
Deda 22 Oct 01 - 06:52 PM
Cllr 22 Oct 01 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,A Youth Perspective 22 Oct 01 - 07:56 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Oct 01 - 07:59 PM
Deda 23 Oct 01 - 11:28 AM
GUEST 23 Oct 01 - 12:13 PM
Jim Krause 23 Oct 01 - 01:14 PM
Deda 23 Oct 01 - 04:04 PM
GUEST,chrisj 23 Oct 01 - 11:33 PM
Rick Fielding 24 Oct 01 - 02:34 AM
GUEST,Frank 24 Oct 01 - 04:21 PM
Gareth 24 Oct 01 - 07:22 PM
Gareth 24 Oct 01 - 07:35 PM
DougR 25 Oct 01 - 01:54 AM
Jim Krause 25 Oct 01 - 03:12 PM
Bennet Zurofsky 25 Oct 01 - 06:32 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 01 - 08:53 AM
Big Mick 27 Oct 01 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,A Youth Perspective 27 Oct 01 - 09:55 PM
GUEST,Clint Keller 27 Oct 01 - 11:05 PM
Rick Fielding 28 Oct 01 - 12:33 AM
Bennet Zurofsky 31 Oct 01 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,A Youth Perspective 01 Nov 01 - 01:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Nov 01 - 02:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Nov 01 - 02:17 PM
Matthew Edwards 01 Nov 01 - 06:15 PM
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Subject: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,A Youth Perspective
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 11:37 AM

In an article in The Nation titled "Operation Enduring Protest" (about the October 13th anti-war rally in NYC organized by the War Is Not the Answer Coalition) by Liza Featherstone, the author states:

"(P)erformers and speakers were hardly limited to the usual left suspects. The Rev. Al Sharpton eloquently drove home the point that war is "not patriotism," a refrain now echoed by peace activists nationwide. Punk-rock icon Patti Smith--who cut a sexy, stringy-haired spectacle, wearing a blue wool cap, a white t-shirt and non-ironic crucifix--gruffly urged the assembled to "wrestle the world from fools!" Smith saved the gathering from turning into a 1960s flashback (other performers had perpetrated folk songs, including the dead-tired "I Ain't Gonna Study War No More"")."

Well folk folk--what say ye to that?

There are many of our folk elders who are making it onstage at events around the country right now, and I can tell you that the reactions to them and their "dead-tired" music aren't nearly as mild among radical youth as the author above is.

So what do people here think their role as veteran folk musicians and political activists is in the post-S11 New World Order?


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 01:46 PM

I think our goal is, as always, to encourage individuals to think for themselves rather than to let outside authorities do their thinking for them.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 02:41 PM

? I think you need to unwrap that a bit, Youth Perspective.

I seem to detect an implication that there should be a cut-off age for people and for songs after which they cease to have any relevance to the rest of the human race. But I may have got it wrong. That extract from The Natioin doesn't seem at all clear what it's saying.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,faswilli2
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 02:50 PM

agree Little Hawk. Never thought that all political songs had to be anti-something, but I guess thats what "protest" means after all. What was called folk music in the 60's forced a lot of people to take a side. Some people could not see the big historical picture and still don't . I got out of music for 25 years and lost some good freinds because I could not take a "side". I'm back in now and believe I have a good historical perspective on the past and on folk music as a reflection of the times but I don't feel a part of any movement and I don't think anti-war and pro-peace songs are necessarily the same. (I know I'm asking for it on that statement). As an old folkie, Al Sharpton and Patti Smith certainly don't represent the folk community. and to answer your question , guest, some of my best freinds consider themselves political activists and they can do all the free gigs they want. It doesn't bother me as long as I'm not sucked into or classified as part of some kind of "movement" .


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: DougR
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 07:42 PM

Al Sharpton for President!


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 08:01 PM

"Patriotism" is whatever people think it is...which means it's about a thousand different things. The highest form of patriotism would be patriotism to life itself rather than to specific nations. Well, that's my opinion, anyway. I have always disliked killing things, with the exception of mosquitoes and horseflies!

- LH


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 09:16 PM

Now I understand why no one on the birthday page is born after 1962.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Oct 01 - 02:35 PM

Age is a common illusion, perpetuated through habit.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Oct 01 - 05:05 PM

There's an opportunity to engage in a fruitful discussion here. For instance, why should patriotism be more associated with people who distrust foreigners rather than those who dedicate their lives to helping their compatriots and preserving the better parts of their own culture?


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: DougR
Date: 21 Oct 01 - 05:21 PM

alanabit: sounds pretty philosophical to me. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: DougR
Date: 21 Oct 01 - 05:23 PM

On second thought: maybe the reason for the sad state of affairs is things aren't that bad, politically. Now that ought to get things going, Guest!

DougR


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 21 Oct 01 - 05:50 PM

Many political songs don't have much of a forum, right now. Where do you sing them? But I bet they're being written and some of them will be good and others disposable like they always have been.

I think America the Beatiful is a political song and it expresses so well what our country stands for.

Also, "This Land is Your Land" and "God Bless America" are kind of politcal songs too. These songs seem to be doing quite well now.

I think their "demise is greatly exaggerated".

Frank


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 07:47 AM

Some of us are still writing and singing them, but you all also have a responcibility to support civil rights singers, we are out there in the cold generally, no matter how good the songs... Still singing the truth to power, Larry


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,A Youth Perspective
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 08:29 AM

Going back to that original quote though--I was speaking more to the perception of the writer to the singing of "folk" songs (in this case "I Ain't Gonna Study War No More").

Sure they are being sung. But I don't think most progressive and politically active youth consider them to be relevant. They are more likely to be listening to the songs of their contemporaries (to be expected of course) like Ani or Rage Against the Machine, or listening to spoken word and hip hop artists to articulate their views for them. They don't seem to be interested in the DIY, anthem/sing-a-long thing.

Many young people are out there on the front lines, as the anti-globalization struggle mobilized many of them. And I think they will be on the front lines of the so-called war on terrorism too. But I don't know that they will be engaged by the same old tactics, nor the sing-a-long political anthems of the past.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 10:05 AM

My experience of young activists is that they (a small minority) are failing to do the hard work of educating themselves on the tactics of non-violent organisation, and as such they allow the cops etc. to turn the focus of the demos to reports about arrests and violence. Now, I have also seen attempts at changing that, but don't write off we old grey heads to soon, most cultures other than the viral infection of American culture honnor the old grey heads as teachers... so before you write off the sing songs of our generation, take some time to hear what we are saying...
Good luck and in solidarity,
See ya on the front lines,
Larry


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 01:46 PM

I am in agreement with Frank about there not being much of a forum for political songs at the moment. It's ironical (perhaps deliberate on your part) that you mention "God Bless America" and "This Land is Your Land" in the same sentence. The former represents the sort of sacharine sentimentality which one would expect from Irving Berlin, whose other monstrosities included "White Christmas". Woody Guthrie intended "This Land is Your Land" as a cutting response. If you listen to the full version of his song you will get back to what I meant when I mentioned different sorts of patriotism in my earlier post. I can't fault OBU's arguments, but I think we have to realise that when we were younger we always knew better than the generation before us...


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:44 PM

What goes around comes around. If there's a generation of activists around now that isn't into singing for themselves, wait a bit and there'll be another breathing down their neck which will be.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: BH
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:29 PM

I don't really believe that a piece of traditional folk music can be considered "dead tired" if it still can speak to us. Certainly it is true that a newer generation prefers and follows the music if its peers. That is to be expected---yet "folk" songs presented in the contemporary vein by contemporary artists can still reach people. For whatever the cause may be.

Amazing Grace still is played and loved by those who hear it. It has meaning.

As to the non-violence part of these postings---I would just add this: it works when the other side values humanity and life on this earth. 6,000 dead innocents in the U S must tell us that there are those who do not value life on this planet or any other place other than their self proclaimed nirvana. Non violence against such people serves only to give them more freedom to kill.

Interestingly enough the leaders who claim "martyrdom" as the greatest thing to happen to a person--he can find eternal bliss--manage to hide and survive in this world.

Bill H


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,A Youth Perspective
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:30 PM

I apologize for not making myself more clear. I didn't mean to say they weren't singing--I meant to say they weren't singing the 60s political folk anthems.

As to not being educated or well informed--I'd say that is true in some instances, and not in others. It takes some time to learn history that isn't taught to us, so in that respect, we are all learning from our elders in that respect. We just prefer our own music of protest to our parent's, which most of us feel is pretty cliched.

But we tend to be looking more at theater tactics than music tactics, too. So I think that makes a difference in terms of what we think works, and what we think doesn't.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: BH
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:39 PM

I meant to add to Guest.,Youth Perspective---a number of years ago in an interview I did with Ronnie Gilbert (singer, actor, writer, activist) she made the point to me ---when I questioned that the young do not do the anthem like sing-a-longs--that in concert's such as those by Ani DiFranco the audience mouthes the words. So in that sense she and I decided that probaly the younger people do "think-a-longs" as opposed the the "sing-a-longs" of those ancient "60s.

Bill H


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Gareth
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:43 PM

Just to add my own perspective - and toss a peble in the pond. Can the demise/reduction of protest/political song possibly have anything to do with the cesation of the draft/conscription ?

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Deda
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:52 PM

I thought that the song that Paul McCartney performed at the end of the NYC event for Rescue workers over the w/end had a definite folk feel to it. It was short, and he had the entire audience of many thousands singing it with him in no time flat, and I could easily imagine hundreds of verses being added. (I don't know name of it, but chorus was just "Freedom,/ Freedom,/ I will fight/ for the right/ to live in Freedom".) Folk music can't die; look at the threads about childrens' songs. People are always going to sing.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Cllr
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:55 PM

Gareth Excellent Idea, Well start a "bring back the Draft" campaign and SAVE FOLK MUSIC.

I'll start relearning Alice's Restaurant immediatly

Cllr


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,A Youth Perspective
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 07:56 PM

Deda, my question was about political folk song, not folk music in general, but thanks for your feedback.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 07:59 PM

Back in the 60s we weren't singing too many songs from the 30s. Or at least when we did we thought they were new when we heard them and sang them. And most of it wasn't what I'd call folk music.

There are two questions - one is where's the movement, and the other is where's the music.

So far as the first is concerned, Gareth might be right about America and the draft, but I wouldn't be too sure. Protest isn't necessarily just about looking after Number One. At any rate the end of conscription in the UK actually preceded the folkie political developments. Noone this side of the Atlantic was worried about getting called up to fight in Vietnam, but it didn't stop us making a fuss about it, because it seemed a pretty dirty affair, and we didn't like the British government lining up with the people who were making war on a small country that hadn't done anything to them.

As for where's the music, I can't imagine that in any generation there aren't going to be people who want to make the music themselves rather than passively take it in, and if there are things you care about, you are going to sing about them, that's what human beings are designed to do. And once you get into making music yourself, sooner or later it's going to turn into some kind of folk music. If it's any good.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Deda
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 11:28 AM

I think that the Paul McCartney song IS political. It was written in response to 9/11, and it's about defending one's political rights. The only thing that makes it NOT a folk song, IMHO, is that Sir Paul the copywrited writer will make gigabucks if anyone tries to add folk verses and let it evolve as folk songs do.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 12:13 PM

Deda,

Can you give us the lyrics to the song?


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE KENNEBUNKPORT HILLBILLY
From: Jim Krause
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 01:14 PM

Well, A. Y. P., here's something that was passed along to me from a friend. In the jargon of the '60s, "Dig this."

THE KENNEBUNKPORT HILLBILLY
Sung to the tune of "The Beverly Hillbillies" theme

Come and listen to my story 'bout a boy named Bush.
His IQ was zero and his head was up his tush.
He drank like a fish while he drove all about,
But that didn't matter 'cuz his daddy bailed him out.
DUI, that is. Criminal record. Cover-up.

Well, the first thing you know, little Georgie goes to Yale.
He can't spell his name but they never let him fail.
He spends all his time hangin' out with student folk,
And that's when he learns how to snort a line of coke.
Blow, that is. White gold. Nose candy.

The next thing you know there's a war in Vietnam.
Kin folks say, "George, stay at home with Mom.
Let the common people get maimed and scarred.
We'll buy you a spot in the Texas Air Guard."
Cushy, that is. Country clubs. Nose candy.

Twenty years later, George gets a little bored.
He trades in the booze, says that Jesus is his Lord.
He said, "Now the White House is the place I wanna be."
So he called his daddy's friends and they called the GOP.
Gun owners, that is. Falwell. Jesse Helms.

Come November 7, the election ran late.
Kin folks said, "Jeb, give the boy your state!
Don't let those colored folks get into the polls."
So they put up barricades so they couldn't punch their holes.
Chads, that is. Duval County. Miami-Dade.

Before the votes were counted, five Supremes stepped in,
Told all the voters, "Hey, we want George to win.
Stop counting votes!" was their solemn invocation,
And that's how George finally got his coronation.
Rigged, that is. Illegitimate. No moral authority.

Y'all come vote now, ya hear?

Now that's what I call pretty darned decent satire.
Jim


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Deda
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 04:04 PM

Lyrics from memory, and I heard the song once, several days ago -- and I'm OLD. ;^)

This is my right
As given by God
To live in a land of freedom

CHORUS: Freedom
Freedom
I will fight
for the right
to live in freedom

Anyone who tries
To take this away
Will have to answer

Honestly, that's all I remember, and that may well be all there was to it. It has a simple melody and rhythm and as I said, an audience of many thousands learned it and was singing it in a matter of seconds, with much clapping and stamping of feet.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,chrisj
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 11:33 PM

Seems to me that the "Bush" song contributed by Jim Krause is Political, the Sir Paul song is merely platitudinous!


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 02:34 AM

That song is hilarious Jim. Who's the author? Whether someone agrees with the sentiments or not, it's damn well written.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 04:21 PM

I think that there are political songs coming from different places in the world. I remember hearing a song of the Afghan women that condemns the male-dominated abuse they are subjected to. I believe that it is on the RAWA page.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 07:22 PM

Yes - don't forget that just becoause it ain't in folk style don't meam it aint a protest song.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 07:35 PM

Second thoughts - and the precedents are in the DT

"A B52 was leaving Kabul<
Bound for Diego's shore,
Heavily laden with very tired men,
Waiting to count up the score,
To see what the Taliban claimed as a miss
Or where was was the Red cross flying Now,
Its only civilians they claim we have hit,
They dont shelter Ben Ladin no more.

Usual chorus.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: DougR
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 01:54 AM

Remember the one about the Viet Nam war, Rick?

I don't know the whys and wherefores of posting lyrics, so they probably won't line up right:

(Sung to the tune "Memories.")

Viet Nam, Viet Nam, 'betcha LBJ, wishes he could turn around and it would go away!; McNamara says "We'll win, although we're not at war; We're sending troops there ...but only to scare Mao, Kruschev, and all their friends!

DougR


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Jim Krause
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 03:12 PM

Re: The Kennebunkport Hillbilly

Rick & All, No, I don't know where it comes from. A friend of mine, who also plays bass in the band I play in forwarded it me. By the time I got it, it had already been in circulation around the net for a while, as witness the long list of email addresses attached to it. It might therefore fall under the strict definition of folk song as "a song that Nobody wrote." ;-)
Jim


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Politics
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 06:32 PM

Political songs don't get played on the radio or appear in the hit parade very often, but they are widely appreciated and enjoyed when heard in a movement context. For the past five years I have been directing a street chorus in New Jersey called The Solidarity Singers, under the sponsorship of the New Jersey Industrial Union Council. We sing on picket lines and at rallies of various sorts and we get more invitations to appear than we can handle. There are about twenty-five of us and as many show up as possible for each event.

While it is true that most of our members are old enough to remember the sixties, we often perform for younger audiences during strikes or at demonstrations. What we find works best are the "zipper" songs that are easy for the assemblage to learn and to sing. People engaged in struggle often have trouble listening to a lot of words, no matter how witty, but they enjoy and appreciate the feeling of solidarity and power that comes from being part of a large group singing together for a cause. When people thank us for coming out to their lines they usually tell us that our songs helped to increase the militance of the crowd and to lift the morale in what are frequently difficult struggles against long odds.

In other words, real politics in music is derived from its context. Music used in struggle to aid that struggle is political. Music that seeks to raise listeners' consciousness regarding issues of the day (many of which, like Peace and disarmament, have been around for a long time) is political. Music that principally represents a performer's efforts to gain the approval of a listening audience is not political, it is simply entertainment no matter the lyrical content.

When I refer to "zipper" songs, I mean songs where new lyrics can be "zipped" in to suit the occasion. Examples include "We Shall Not Be Moved," "We're Gonna Roll the Union (or Movement) On," and many well-known "spirituals" like "This Little Light of Mine." Nothing succeeds like a song adapted to the particular struggle.

Parodies are also popular, although often ephemeral and for the particular moment or movement. Some old parodies, however, such as many by Joe Hill, continue to be crowd pleasers. Anthems, when they are known by the crowd or when they have choruses that are easily learned, also draw enthusiastic participation. You really have not experienced political folk music if you have never sung "Solidarity Forever" with a group of angry strikers.

There are certainly good topical songs that are still being written and that seem to have plenty of appeal for young (and old) people who get to hear them. Anne Feeney and David Rovics come to mind as less-known songwriters turning out powerful topical songs, and established writers like Peggy Seeger also continue to turn out good political material.

There is a problem that derives from the general popular media control over what we generally hear. Even folkies tend to limit themselves to that which is popular in their particular genre. Those of us who follow political music tend to find what is out there, but the rest of us frequently don't bother. It would do us all a lot of good to challenge media and self-imposed boundaries as to what we listen to.

When the cause is worthy there are always good songs to be found or modified to suit the cause. More of us need to get out there and sing them, not as featured artists and budding stars, but as demonstrators building the numbers and spirits of those supporting the cause. Hopefully, there will also be occasions where our songs will help to change a few minds. A witty, well-written song can often persuade where speeches and pamphlets fail.

In sum, while politics may currently be in sad shape (a 92% approval rating for Bush and the bombing of the starving population of Afghanistan!), political song lives. Political songs will thrive when the political movement(s) they serve thrives.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 08:53 AM

Political songs will thrive when the political movement(s) they serve thrives That really says it all.

There is no shortage of great songs about what happens in the world, which is what politics is all about. Old songs worth singing, and new songs worth singing. Songs about oppression, resistance, injustice, corage, all that.

The shape they take varies according to the culture they come from, and changes with time and place. If they get picked up and used and passed around and changed, they become folk songs, wherever they come from.

That really only happens when they are part of some kind of political movement. I think we are going to start seing that happen a lot in the next few years.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 09:21 AM

Remember when we used to say "Never trust anyone over 30"? That was in the 60's. Youth will always find their own voice and thanks be that it is so. These young ones don't need our old songs for anything other than inspiration to write theirs. Just don't reject us Youth Perspective, rather inspire us to once again raise our voices with yours.

I despaired for a long time during the "me generation" times at the lack of involvement of our young. But out of that time came a class that gives me hope, and inspires me to attmept to lend some long in the tooth experience to assisting them. This is a savvy bunch, unburdened by the "big lie" of the 50's. We were raised in a time when we were fed a steady diet of what "normalcy" was. Then along came the 60's and our whole world was turned upside down. Values rejected, lifestyles evolved, and much change occurred. What we found over the years is that we rejecting things because they were old, instead of because they weren't relevant, didn't work, ignored problems, and so on. Much needed changing, much shouldn't have been changed. Then came the "piss on the rest of them, as long as I am allright" times. And now has come this group, which is inhabited our young friend who started this thread. And I must tell you I am hopeful. They have all the idealism that drove us 30 years ago, but it is tempered by a cynicism/realism piece that will make them more effective. I have seen the intolerance in them of "boomers", but I believe they will come through that as time has a way of tempering the intolerance of youth. As this bunch assumes the mantle, they will have to grapple with some major league problems such as the Social Security problem. I have great confidence in their abilities to do so.

One way for us, as aging activists, to have our voices heard is to write and sing things that are relevant. If there is a salvation for those of us from the 60's, it is that we don't get trapped in our youth, and miss the problems that are being faced today. If we take our experiences and the lessons taught by them, and apply them to what is being faced today, then we will be called wise. But if we dwell in our youth, with our only thoughts being "wasn't that a time", then we will be irrelevant. I think I will go with the former.

Thanks, Young Person, for making me think about this.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,A Youth Perspective
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 09:55 PM

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread--especially Bennet's thoughtful words and Jim's great contribution of that song.

There is a song I haven't heard mentioned I am curious about. I heard it from a young gal was playing at a demo I was at recently. I believe she said it is called "Crow on the Cradle." I loved the song. Can anyone tell me anything about it?


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 27 Oct 01 - 11:05 PM

It's at http://crixa.com/muse/unionsong/u115.html

clint keller


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 12:33 AM

Just occurred to me that the "form" of the Beverly Hillbillies is excellent for parodies and such. Very much like the "talkin' Blues" form, with room for extra jokes at the end. T'would be difficult to write a 'serious' song of protest in that form though....just too jovial a tune.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 06:19 PM

"Crow On the Cradle" is a nuclear disarmament song composed, if I recall correctly, by Sidney Carter. It was published in Sing Out! and is included in one of the Reprints from Sing Out! volumes.

The Crow on the Cradle was (and is) the spectre of nuclear war. It is indeed a beautiful song, although I haven't sung it or heard it sung in while.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: GUEST,A Youth Perspective
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 01:25 PM

Thanks for the information on "Crow on the Cradle"! It is a beautiful song that seems timely again for my generation.

Again, I appreciate all the contributions to the thread so much. Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 02:01 PM

Yes it was Sydney Carter who wrote The Crow on the Cradle It's a reworking of Rock-a-bye Baby of couurse, with bits from Little Boy Blue and so forth. A lovely song.

And every bit as relevant today, in the context of the Towers and Afghanistan. Espcially that last verse:

Bring me a gun and I'll shoot that bird dead
That's what your mammy and pappy once said
Crow on the cradle, oh what should I do
That is a thing that I leave to you
Sang the crow on the cradle


Intentionally and consciously Sydney left the question open in the song. He knows what he thinks the answer is, but he didn't fall into the trap of laying it down for everyone else. It's still hanging in the air for us all to answer.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 02:17 PM

Incidentally, that is a very handy site, with some songs that for legal reasons we've had to lose from the DT, by people like Sydney Carter and Woody Guthrie.

But can anyone tell me what I need to have to be able to get that tune player that is on the page to play? It's Quick Time, and I've got Quick Time installed, but when I push the button on the Crow page, no sound comes out.

But I should probably take that up on another thread about stuff like that.


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Subject: RE: Current Sad State of Political Folk Song
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 06:15 PM

For anybody who needs their political consciousness reviving there is an excellent opportunity coming up in Sheffield UK. The biennial Raise Your Banners Festival is being held on the Sheffield Hallam University campus; Dick Gaughan will be there along with many others such as Frankie Armstrong, Coope Boyes and Simpson, Attila the Stockbroker, Julie McNamara. Details are available at Raise Your Banners. If you can make it then GO!


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