Origins: Wildwood Flower / I'll Twine 'Mid the ...

Subject: What is the definition of the word emanita?
From: Paul R. Jay
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 09:21 PM

The song "Wildwood Flower" has a line in it that has the word emanita in it. I have also seen it with the word aronatus. Can anybody give me the definition of these words. I think they are some kind of flower. "The myrtle so bright with an emerald hue And the pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue."

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 09:29 PM

this comes up regularly...if you know how to search the forum, you can read LONG discussions of it...(the newsgroup rec.music.folk also has had long threads on it..)..the short answer is that no one 'really' knows....(it probably originated with the pronunciation problems of the long-gone author)...botanists have signed on and discussed 'possible' flowers, etc...I guess you just find the version you like best and sing that!

Subject: RE:
From: Humdinger Folksinger
Date: 24 Feb 98 - 09:24 PM

You're doing better than I! For about 30 years, until just recently, I thought the line was "The pale and the leader and eyes looked so blue." I actually saw the "written words" in the "Rise-Up Singing Songbook"; I learned them "by ear." Good luck!

Subject: RE:
From: Gene
Date: 24 Feb 98 - 09:37 PM

Well, there was a version with those VERY LINES.

The pale and the leader and eyes looked like blue...

Probably because no one could figure out what the others meant....

Subject: RE:
From: Bob Landry
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 06:33 PM

The first version I saw had the word "lyder", instead of "leader". The word doesn't appear in my Collins English Dictionary. Another mispronunciation, perhaps?

Subject: RE:
From: leprechaun
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 03:33 PM

Amanita is a genus of mushroom, some of which are poisonous, some of which are deadly and some of which are considered hallucinogenic.

Subject: RE:
From: dulcimer
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 07:29 PM

If you want to sing it as the Carter's did it in 1927,you'll use the lyrics Gene gave. Maybelle herself gives different lyrics in the 50's. So it probably doesn't matter what really are the lyrics or trying to find some "orginal" "first" lyrics. I would suggest that any version you find is just one that someone heard. The version the Carters did probably came from the palor song of 1859 I'll Twine Midst the Ringlets by J. Webster. Another possible source of the Carter tune was The Pale Amaryliis. They themselves couldn't give the exact meaning of the phrase. So if you are looking for the meaning emanita or aronatus, you may looking for some flower or whatever that someone only guessing at when he/she sung and wrote down.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAN WHO PICKED THE WILDWOOD FLOWER
From: NEWFOUNDLANDER
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 10:06 AM

This is a version that my Late Uncle used to sing. I don't know where he got it from, but he used to sing it to the tune of The Wildwood Flower.

THE MAN WHO PICKED THE WILDWOOD FLOWER

I only saw five people when they buried Jack Dupree
Two diggers and a preacher the funeral man and me
The prayer was said and the hole was filled in less than half an hour
We said good-bye to the little man who picked the wildwood flower

For twenty years I’d seen him on the lower Nashville streets
They said he always earned enough to buy his cloths and eat
He'd stop awhile and check his watch with the big clock on the tower
That's when i asked him once if he could pick the wildwood flower

He always drew a crowd because he put on such a show
He'd dance and sing and play and smile just like a college pro
And every time he saw me standing in the crowd
I knew the tune that he'd play next would be the wildwood flower

I told him once that he could be what people called a star
And he said why boy I’m happy. None of them folks are
I'd hate to have to force a smile and feel myself turn sour
There ain't no put on in my face when i pick the wildwood flower

Then I saw a thousand people as they began to come
Businessmen, opera stars, party girls and bums
And on that little mound of clay bouqueted with endless showers
They paid respect to the little man who picked the wildwood flower
^^

Subject: RE:
From:
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:20 AM

Nobody has ever figured out what "mingles" are either. In the Carter Family version they say "I will twine with my mingles....." My record jacket (Rounder's Complete Victor Recordings) says mispronunciations did get into songs and then people sang them by ear and perpertuated them.

Murray

Subject: RE:
From: Jon W.
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:22 PM

I always thought it was "I will twine 'mid the ringlets of waving black hair..."

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:57 PM

heard 'em all....always thought "I will twine and Ill mingle my waving black hair, with the roses...etc..." made more sense...

Subject: RE:
From:
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 06:32 PM

One of those two versions was probably what it was supposed to be, They both make sense and fit in with the rest of the song.

If I had one of those old fashioned reel-to-reel tape recorders, I would slow it down and listen to see if I really hear "mingles". The guy who wrote the jacket notes for my cassette seems to have heard it too.

Murray

Subject: RE:
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 07:07 PM

I have seen words somewhere that made sense of it all, but now I have forgotten where I saw them. I have played with several professional bluegrass bands; each one had a version of this frequently-requested song, and each version was different from the others. I never had to worry about it, since I don't sing it--outta my range.

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER ^^
From: NEWFOUNDLANDER
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 08:34 PM

Here's another version I just dug out of my songbook.

WILDWOOD FLOWER 107

I will twine and will mingle my waving black hair
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair
The myrtle so green of an emerald hue
The pale emanita and violets of blue

Oh he promised to love me, he promised to love
To cherish me always all others above
I woke from my dream and my idol was clay
My passion for loving had vanished away

Oh he taught me to love him, he called me his flower
A blossom to cheer him through life's weary hour
But now he has gone and left him alone
The wild flowers to weep and the wild birds to moan

I'll dance and I'll sing and my life shall be gay
I'll charm every heart in the crowd I survey
Though my heart now is breaking, he shall never know
How his name makes me tremble, my pale cheeks to glow

I'll dance and I'll sing and my life shall be gay
I'll banish this weeping, drive troubles away
I'll live yet to see him, regret this dark hour
When he won and neglected his frail wildwood flower

^^

Subject: RE:
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 11:19 PM

The presumably original version is "I'll Twine 'mid the Ringlets", which dulcimer mentioned, and in the DT it starts like this:

I'll twine 'mid the ringlets of my raven black hair
Rhe lilies so pale and the roses so fair
The myrtle so bright with an emeral hue
And the pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue.

I left in the typos because they make we (I mean Me) wonder whether "aronatus" is a typo. But if it isn't, and you want to know what the lyricist meant, that's the word to research. I'm not saying for a minute that it's the word you should sing.

(Incidentally, one songbook I learned this from has "armita"--you sing "pale" on two notes--and another gives the fourth line as "Said I, knowing not that my love was untrue".)

Subject: RE:
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 06:41 AM

Thanks to NEWFOUNDLANDER's jogging my memory with the violets line, I remembered the flower name which the old folks used in my neck of the woods when I was learning my music: "And the pale Amaranthus with violets of blue." Amaranthus (sometimes called Pigweed by less romantic folks) is a fairly common wildflower, but it is also a name given to a mythical flower which was supposed never to fade. Tennyson refers to it in one of his poems, I believe.

Subject: RE:
From: Jon W.
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 10:59 AM

Does amaranthus have any bright blue eye-like spots?

Subject: RE:
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 01:45 PM

I don't think so. Amaranth (as it's more often called in English by those who don't want to say "pigweed") has spikes of tiny flowers that are usually reddish or greenish. The kind most commonly grown in gardens is called "love lies bleeding".

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER^^^
From: CarterNut
Date: 22 Jul 98 - 11:26 AM

Here are the exact words to this song that Mother Maybelle Carter sang. She stated that they came from her grandmother and that she had always known the song.

Wildwood Flower
As sung by Mother Maybelle Carter

Oh, I'll twine with my mingles of waving black hair,
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair;
And the myrtle so bright with the emerald dew,
The pale and the leader and eyes look like blue.

Oh, I'll dance, I will sing and my laugh shall be gay,
I will charm every heart in his crown I will sway;
When I woke from my dreaming my idols were clay,
All portions of love had all flown away.

Oh, he taught me to love him and promised to love,
And to cherish me over all others above;
How my heart is now wondering no misery can tell,
He's left me no warning nor words of farewell.

Oh, he taught me to love him and called me his flower,
That was blooming to cheer him through life's dreary hour.
Oh I long to see him and regret the dark hour,
He's gone and neglected this pale wildwood flower.

This is the one above all versions, although I am biased toward Maybelle. I consider her the "Rock" of my musical interests and influencing. A "mingle" as far as I can tell is maybe a twist or tangle in her. "Pale and the leader" is perhaps some flower whose name has become jumbled through oral tradition. Note the reference to "myrtle" in the line before. We can gather that she is going to play with her hair among the flowers, twining some within her hair. John.

^^^

Subject: RE:
From: Barbara
Date: 22 Jul 98 - 12:14 PM

'Pale and a leader' = 'Pale oleander'?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE:
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Jul 98 - 07:49 PM

I will swine with my piglets.... Bob Pfeffer's version as I recall.

Subject: RE:
From: DrWord
Date: 24 Jul 98 - 10:39 PM

Just a thought ... it doesn't help with the botany, but Homer & Jethro used to take this song off:

Oh my flower of the wildwood was skinny and tall 'Cept for her adam's apple, she had no shape at all I can still see her there, sittin' under the trees Tying knots in her stockings, so's it look like she had knees ...

&c &c. Dennis

Subject: RE:
From: BSEEDKRATZ
Date: 25 Jul 98 - 07:23 PM

amanita is not only the name of a mushroom, it is also the name of a flower--and, yes, the woman is talking of twining flowers in her hair, throughout the song:

I will twine and will mingle my raven black hair
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair,
The myrtle so green of an emerald hue,
The pale amanita and islip (?) so blue.

Subject: Lyr Add: WILDWOOD FLOWER^^^
From:
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 01:25 AM

Here is another version of "Wildwood Flower":

I will twine and will mingle my waving black hair
With the roses so red and the lily so fair,
The myrtle so green of an emerald hue
The pale emanita and eyes look like blue.

Oh, he promised to love me, he promised to love,
To cherish me always, all others above.
I woke from my dream and my idol was clay.
My passion for loving had vanished away.

Oh, he taught me to love him, he called me his flower,
A blossom to cheer him through life's weary hour.
But now he has gone and left me alone,
The wildflowers to weep, and the wild birds to moan.

I'll dance and I'll sing, and my life shall be gay.
I'll charm every heart in the crowd I survey.
Though my heart is now breaking, he never shall know
How his name makes me tremble, my pale cheeks to glow.

I'll dance and I'll sing, and my heart will be gay.
I'll banish this weeping, drive troublews away;
I'll live yet to see him, regret this dark hour
When he won and neglected this frail wildwood flower.

-- This is from: Irwin and Fred Silber, Compilers, Folksinger's Wordbook (New York: Oak Publications, 1973), p. 166.


^^^

Subject: wildwood flower
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 09:30 AM

I can still remember hippie friends in the late sixties (appropriately) trying to convince the world that the "pale aminita" is a hallucinogenic mushroom & that the Carter Family was all stoned. . . thinking more deeply, it was at a Holy Modal Rounders concert that Pete Stampfel put forth this theory. I've ALWAYS sung "pale aminita"; childhood habits are the hardest to break Pete

Subject: RE:
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 09:35 AM

YOU had hippy friends???? harpology

Subject: RE:
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 01:25 PM

Harpgirl, you seemed so shocked, I more bet that there are many here that if old enough were hippys (selk included) & them that were to old , there's a good shot of them being beatnecks. Barry whoses still aging with a young heart.

Subject: RE:
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 01:26 PM

Hum, that's "I bet more". Barry

Subject: RE:
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 10:15 PM

Barry,
I'm pulling Pete's leg, sweetie....He and I know each other slightly...harpy

Subject: RE:
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Nov 98 - 11:09 PM

See that, aging more quickly than I realized. Barry

Subject: RE:
From: GUEST,A girl and a guitar
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 03:06 AM

Maybe the reason why this song is so popular is because everyone can make up their own words to it.

Subject: RE: wildwood flower
From: GUEST,michael batory
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:54 AM

try www.citynet.net/putnam/parents/wildflr.html where there are a few lines of explanation plus a version from Folksingers wordbook 1973.

from here here is also a link to a fine illustration of Amaranthus pumilus.

michael

Subject: RE:
From: kendall
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:54 AM

the words that make the most sense to me are: I will twine and will mingle my raven black hair
With the roses so red and the lilies so fair
The Myrtle so bright with its emerald dew
The pale EMILITA and ISLIP so blue..

Subject: RE:
From: kendall
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 09:03 AM

should be emerald HUE not dew.

Subject: RE:
From: WyoWoman
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 02:00 AM

Hey, I like ISLIP... I think I'll use that instead of "eyes look so blue ..."

The folk process lives ...

ww

Subject: RE:
From: richardw
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:54 PM

Go to Benjamin Tubb's site pdmusic.org for the original words and tune.

Richard Wright

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Vixen
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 08:52 AM

On Randy Scruggs' "Crown of Jewels" CD, it's "pale amanita and hyssop so blue".

another $0.02

V

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 09:37 AM

Well she asked me to learn how to play "Wildwood Flower"; So I studied and practiced for hour after hour. Mah fingers are bleeding, no misery can tell! But I still cannot play "Wildwood Flower" very well.

Anon.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 04:46 PM

It would be very difficult to identify the flower. Common flower names vary from locality to locality. Scientific botanical names change as more precise work is done on classification. A wild guess is that the flower is pale pink, since blue and green are the other colors mentioned. My guess is eglantine, a pale pink species of rose sometimes called sweetbrier. Neither emanita nor amanita appear in Stern's botanical Latin dictionary for flowering plants (the latter in the fungal names only), or in Hutchinson. Whatever, it is a fine old song; I especially like Newfoundlander's version.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 05:10 PM

Well, then there was that "other" Wildwood Flower song from back in the 70s...

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 06:32 PM

Found this on google. "Wildwood Flower" was written by Maude Irving and J. D. Webster in 1860. In the original, the word was arrownetta, not emanita. This is similar to the aronatus cited by Jerry Friedman in his posting. We are no closer to identification, but is good to know that the song had authors who can be named.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 07:12 PM

Apologies to Dulcimer, she posted one of the authors above. I found an interview with the Carters in which Maybelle says the words got "mixed-up" as they were passed down in the family. The interviewer was Dick Spottiswood of WAMU. The site has the song as sung by the Carters in 1928, and interpreted as they sing it. The original title was, as Dulcimer stated, "I'll twine midst the ringlets." http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/vote/dlist.html#flower. Maybelle was 19 when the song was recorded.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 10:21 PM

.....it sure is a nice instrumental piece...

;>)

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 11:57 PM

Bill D, I'm sure Maybelle's playing with the Carters started a lot of people playing. I have even heard a Mexican mariachi group playing it, using that deep base guitar(?) of theirs to emphasize the melody.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 07:24 AM

I learned, 'and the leader' but now sing 'leander' which is blue. Also known as the shoo-fly plant and is apparently found around North Carolina ...

"BLUE, Nicandra physaloides: Annual. 2' - 4' tall. Bushy plant has toothed leaves and pretty blue/white blossoms. Seed pods make good everlastings (papery - similar to Chinese lanterns but brown when dry). Ornamental member of the Nightshade family. Supposed to repel insects or kill those sucking the sap."

sian

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Genie
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 12:56 PM

From: genie I agree with Kendall, except I sing "amanita" instead of "emilita": I am inclined to use Maybelle Carter's words--except where they make no sense and appear to be based upon an auditory error. If the song was sung, "...and the pale amanita and islip so blue..." (referring to flowers), it could easily be heard as "...and the pale and the leader and eyes look so blue..." --especially if one heard and learned it as a child!

Everyone will have his or own preference, of course, but the words that make the most sense to me are: "I will twine and will mingle my raven black hair

With the roses so red and the lilies so fair

The Myrtle so bright with its emerald dew

The pale Amanita and Islip so blue."

As an aside: When I was about seven, I lived near Brooklyn, NY, and rooted for the Dodgers. We had just got our first TV and, of course, were glued to the tube for the Dodgers' games. I had never paid any attention to the Star Spangled Banner before hearing it sung before each game. For months--probably until we were taught the words in some school music class--, I thought the words were "Oh, say, can you see by the Dodgerly light ...?"

A guy I heard singing the Eagles' song, "Take It Easy," was singing the line, "...lookin' for a lover who won't blow my brother ...". I asked him about it, thinking he was trying to be cute, but he said he thought that was the real line (which, of course, really is, "...who won't blow my cover...".

This could be an interesting thread, in itself --mis-heard lyrics that get sung in public or printed!

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Genie
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 01:11 PM

From: genie I agree with Kendall, except I sing "amanita" instead of "emilita": I am inclined to use Maybelle Carter's words--except where they make no sense and appear to be based upon an auditory error. If the song was sung, "...and the pale amanita and islip so blue..." (referring to flowers), it could easily be heard as "...and the pale and the leader and eyes look so blue..." --especially if one heard and learned it as a child!

Everyone will have his or own preference, of course, but the words that make the most sense to me are: "I will twine and will mingle my raven black hair With the roses so red and the lilies so fair The Myrtle so bright with its emerald dew The pale Amanita and Islip so blue."

As an aside: When I was about seven, I lived near Brooklyn, NY, and rooted for the Dodgers. We had just got our first TV and, of course, were glued to the tube for the Dodgers' games. I had never paid any attention to the Star Spangled Banner before hearing it sung before each game. For months--probably until we were taught the words in some school music class--, I thought the words were "Oh, say, can you see by the Dodgerly light ...?"

A guy I heard singing the Eagles' song, "Take It Easy," was singing the line, "...lookin' for a lover who won't blow my brother ...". I asked him about it, thinking he was trying to be cute, but he said he thought that was the real line (which, of course, really is, "...who won't blow my cover...".

This could be an interesting thread, in itself --mis-heard lyrics that get sung in public or printed!

Subject: Lyr Add: I'LL TWINE 'MID THE RINGLETS
From: Genie
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 01:25 PM

I got these lyrics from pdmusic.org.

"I'll Twine 'Mid the Ringlets" (1860)
No. 57.
Words by Maud Irving
Music Joseph Philbrick Webster, 1819-1875

1. I'll twine 'mid the ringlets of my raven black hair,
The lilies so pale and the roses so fair,
|: The myrtle so bright with an emerald hue,
And the pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue. :|

2. I'll sing and I'll dance. My laugh shall be gay.
I'll cease this wild weeping, drive sorrow away.
|: Tho' my heart is now breaking, he never shall know
That his name made me tremble and my pale cheeks to glow. :|

3. I'll think of him never. I'll be wildly gay.
I'll charm ev'ry heart, and the crowd I will sway.
|: I'll live yet to see him, regret the dark hour
When he won, then neglected, the frail wildwood flower. :|

4. He told me he loved me, and promis'd to love,
Through ill and misfortune, all others above,
|: Another has won him. Ah, misery to tell!
He left me in silence, no word of farewell. :|

5. He taught me to love him. He call'd me his flower
That blossom'd for him all the brighter each hour.
|: But I woke from my dreaming. My idol was clay.
My visions of love have all faded away. :|

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 03:44 PM

J. D. Webster also wrote Lorena, also frequently performed as a folk song.

Subject: RE: Wildwood Flower
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 10:58 AM

I saw this song included among a list of Texas songs. Anybody know why?