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Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s

Desert Dancer 08 Nov 01 - 07:35 PM
Allan C. 08 Nov 01 - 08:00 PM
Mudlark 08 Nov 01 - 08:31 PM
Desert Dancer 09 Nov 01 - 12:22 AM
GUEST,MCP 09 Nov 01 - 12:13 PM
Desert Dancer 09 Nov 01 - 12:44 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Nov 01 - 02:04 PM
Desert Dancer 09 Nov 01 - 06:39 PM
GUEST,MCP 10 Nov 01 - 05:03 AM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Nov 01 - 11:33 AM
Desert Dancer 10 Nov 01 - 07:22 PM
Desert Dancer 10 Nov 01 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,dick greenhaus 10 Nov 01 - 09:22 PM
GUEST,debra 01 May 16 - 06:33 AM
GUEST,Mike Yates 01 May 16 - 09:06 AM
Jim Carroll 01 May 16 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,Mike Yates 19 Jun 17 - 08:43 AM
nickp 19 Jun 17 - 05:41 PM
Brian Peters 20 Jun 17 - 05:38 PM
GUEST,Mike Yates 21 Jun 17 - 04:20 AM
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Subject: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 07:35 PM

I've just today been working on a song from Jeff Davis, "Pat Do This," (a modal "working on the railway" kind of song) which he says was collected by Maud Karpeles in Nelson County Virginia in the 1950's. Anyone have information on where material from that expedition is published? Journals only, or any texts?

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 08:00 PM

You might find what you want by doing a search here for some of the books she was associated with, including those of Cecil Sharp.


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Mudlark
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 08:31 PM

Probably of no help at all but there is a karpeles museum in Santa Barbara, CA....


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 12:22 AM

Allan, a good thought, though it doesn't pan out. My local university library on-line catalog doesn't show anything, either. Maybe they're recordings in the Library of Congress or the EFDSS library. I 'spose I could write Jeff and ask where he picked up that particular one.

Mudlark, I assume the namesake (and subject) of the museum is no relation??

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 12:13 PM

The published books seem to be only the Newfoundland Songs (and editing the Sharp English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians).

However in the introduction to the 1951 edition of EFSfSA she starts off with "In the Summer of 1951, with the assistance of the Library of Congress, I spent three-and-a-half weeks in the mountains of Virginia, North Carolina, and Tennessee, accompanied by Mrs. Sidney Robertson Cowell. With a tape-recording machine lent by the Library we recorded ninety-one songs and instrumental tunes, of which sixty-nine were from singers who had previously sung to Cecil Sharp of from near relations of these singer".
The notes to record The Doc Watson Family Tradition quote the following:

" ""Thus, a song originating in England and carried to America, lives there by oral tradition for some hundreds of years; it is written down and taken back to England by Cecil Sharp; then some thirty years later the song is carried back in printed form to the country of its adoption and takes on a new lease of life. Such are the devious ways of tradition.""

-Maud Karpeles

With these words, Maud Karpeles reflected on the erosion of oral tradition in the Southern Appalachians where she collected in 1951, revisiting sixty-nine families and individuals whom Sharp had first met between 1916 and 1918. In the ensuing years, many of these singers of Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee had forgotten their own songs and were delighted to relearn them from the publicised transcriptions which she and Sharp had made thirty years earlier."

(The Karpeles' quote is from the same introduction, the commentary is by Ralph Rinzler, Smithsonian Institution, 1977)

The Library of Congress site might be a good place to look next since they appeared to have sponsored the trip. (If I have some time over the weekend I might have a look myself!).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 12:44 PM

Thanks, Mick, sounds like they must be at the Library of Congress, although an on-line catalog search there under her name didn't bring anything useful up. I suppose the thing to do is check with Jeff D. and contact the Center for American Folklife at the LOC directly with the inquiry.

~ Becky in Tucson but keeping this thread going in case anyone's got the inside scoop!


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 02:04 PM

Maud Karpeles published a short piece, A Return Visit to the Appalachian Mountains, in the Journal of the English Folk Dance and Song Society (vol.6, no.3, 1951) describing her three-and-a-half week trip.  Some 50 of the singers recorded by her and Cecil Sharp had died or disappeared, but she managed to find 31 (original singers or their near relatives), and recorded material from a further 5 singers and instrumentalists.  34 of the songs had been noted on the previous trip, and published in English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians (1932), but at the time of writing she had not had the opportunity of transcribing the new recordings to see exactly how they had changed over the intervening years.

The article included transcriptions of four songs not previously noted; The Gypsy Laddie, from Mrs. Donald Shelton (née Emma Hensley); The Cruel Ship's Carpenter from Mrs. Charlie Noel of Hot Springs, N.C.; Rock-a-Bye Baby and Down in the Meadow from Mrs. Oscar Allen (née Ada Maddox) of Lynchburg, Va.

If you'd like a copy of the article, let me know.


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 06:39 PM

Hmm. The University of Arizona doesn't have volumes 4-6, of course. I may be in touch, Malcolm.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 05:03 AM

I note from the EFDSS site, under the Journal entry, that Vol 8 No.1 (2001) contains an article by David Atkinson (who was also responsible for the Introductory bibliography to English Folk Song on the site) on The Maud Karpeles' Collection.

Mick
PS. I agree that the Library of Congress turn up nothing very useful searching for Maud Karpeles, but Cowell turns up a lot of results - I haven't looked through them but it might be worth a closer look. Mick.


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 11:33 AM

Thanks for pointing that out, Mick.  I hadn't read that article yet, but on referring to it, it makes clear that Karpeles' papers -with the exception of the Newfoundland material, which went to Memorial University of Newfoundland- were bequeathed to EFDSS for the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library (which now also has microfiche copies of the Newfoundland papers).  The documents are catalogued according to the boxes into which Miss Karpeles sorted them before her death, and Box 6 contains her diaries from the 1950 Appalachian trip, and lists of singers and songs; there is also some material from 1955.  It isn't clear from David Atkinson's summary whether song transcriptions from that expedition are included in this or in other boxes.

It appears that some of the sound recordings were released on disc by the BBC; the  VWML  has copies, at any rate, as does  The National Sound Archive,  where you can get details online.  It would seem reasonable to suppose that the Library of Congress might have the original tapes, or copies of them, but at this point Peter Kennedy, Maud Karpeles' nephew and a prolific collector in his own right, enters the equation.  It certainly looks as if he has the tapes, or some of them (and knowing a little about him, I shouldn't be surprised if they were the originals).

He runs  Folktrax,  as you may know, and has two anthologies of material from the 1950 trip available for sale (cassette or CD):

FTX-907 - BLACK IS THE COLOUR: Appalachian Collection -1 (Tennessee and N.Carolina)

FTX-908 - CUMBERLAND GAP: Maud's Appalachian Collection -2 (Virginia ballads and dance tunes)


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 07:22 PM

Wow. Thanks, guys.

~ B in T


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 07:33 PM

Kennedy seems to be the easiest source, and there's "Pat Do This and Pat Do That" on the Cumberland Gap set.

This looks like a banjo-intensive set of things, and Jeff Davis being a great one for getting in touch with source material on the instrument, I bet this is where he picked it up.

Now I have to decide if I want to deal with Mr. Kennedy, myself...

But thank you, thank you for your ferreting skills, Mick & Malcolm.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 09:22 PM

Anything listed at Folktrax, Peter Kennedy's site, is available from CAMSCO (800/548-FOLK) for the same price as Mr. Kennedy charges, but with a lot less fuss (currency exchange, overseas shipping. CAMSCO, unlike Folktrax, accepts credit cards.


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,debra
Date: 01 May 16 - 06:33 AM

hello, I am really looking for this recorded material, to no avail. I know this is an old thread, but really important to me. anyone have any luck getting the recordings? thank you, ~debra


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 01 May 16 - 09:06 AM

Copies of the Maud Karpeles Appalachian recordings are housed in the Vaughan Williams Library at Cecil Shjarp House, London.


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 May 16 - 09:17 AM

Guest Debra
PM me (or contact Joe Offer)
Sorry, not happy about putting my contact address up
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 08:43 AM

Many of Maud Karpeles' Appalachian recordings can be heard on a forthcoming Musical Traditions 2 CD set "When Cecil Left the Mountains". This should be available by the end of this month (June, 2017). Further details on www.mustrad.org.uk - editorial page.


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: nickp
Date: 19 Jun 17 - 05:41 PM

Ooo, that's one to buy!


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Jun 17 - 05:38 PM

Looks like a great project. Those recordings of MK's have been hard-to-find for way too long, and there's some very interesting stuff there, both unaccompanied balladry and string band music.

Any chance of a modification to the thread title to reflect the new release, Joe?


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Subject: RE: Help: Info on Maud Karpeles in U.S. in '50s
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 21 Jun 17 - 04:20 AM

Brian, I was planning to send details for a new thread once the CD set was issued.


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