BS: faith healers

Subject: faith healers
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 01 - 11:28 PM

Our mother has masticised cancer of the uterus and spleen. The doctors have abandoned all hope; we have not. We will travel ANYWHERE and were told there are faith healers here that have worked miracles.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 01:02 AM

If you don't find one, you might want to consider getting in touch with your local Hospice organization if there are any in your area.

Accepting the reality that someone you love is going to die is a terrible thing. However, if she is going to die, you can make the quality of life for your mother during her final days much better with the help of people who understand this process.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 09:16 AM

There is one faith healer, and he left here a long time ago. He still listens to those who call on him,though. I've seen miraculous healings among people my wife and I have visited... people who weren't given 24 hours to live. There are some people who do seem to be gifted with healing. But, not all are healed. Add a couple of people you don't know to the list of people who are lifting prayers for healing... my wife and me.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: CharlieA
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 09:18 AM

depemding on what type of healing you want - i know several people who do Rekki. it works wonders and can be done remotly. if you let me know some more details i could get back to you. Cxxx

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:46 AM

Faith healers are like psychics. Some are real, and some are not. The ones who advertise are probably not. If you feel you have nothing to lose by trying, go for it. Miracles can happen.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: MMario
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 11:03 AM

Another thing to consider - though emotionally it is difficult. Faith healing is not always physical. Sometimes it is the spirit of the afflicted that is healed. This can be very difficult for their loved ones.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 11:43 AM

You can contact me via e-mail to distribute this to a prayer chain:

[e-mail]

And/or post it as a prayer request here:

PRAYER REQUESTS AT JON'S ANNEXE

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: GUEST,Simon Jones
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 11:44 AM

This is a hard thing to say, but faith healers really don't work.

There is someevidence, that the beliefs of the sick person can make a difference.

However there is no evidence of a magic faith healing wand - and there have been many studies.

Lots of people will disagree with me, and possibly question the nature of scientific research on such things. I do however think that this is a case of 'wanting to believe' very badly, and making 2+2=5

I wish you and your mother well, but as CarolC says, a hospice, and trying to get some emotional peace might be a better strategy.

Not what you wanted to hear, I know.

Love and tranquility to all your family

Simon

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 12:06 PM

Good point, Simon.

The faith is in the believer, not the healer, although the healer does need to have some sort of belief in themselves and whatever they believe gives them such abilities. It will not work, though, unless the recipient believes in it, deep within their heart and even then, if it is their time, it will not seem to work.

That is why whenever I have a request, I end with "this or something better, for the highest good of all concerned." If there is a belief in a Higher Being, then this is a thanks giving for whatever is for that person's highest good, which may be to transition, to move to the next level of consciousness. Not an easy thing for loved ones, nor the recipient, to understand and accept, sometimes.

I agree, also, that those who advertise, with very few exceptions, are not very reliable or trustworthy. It is a gift to be freely given, imo.

in peace,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: GUEST,A Believer
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 01:33 PM

Simon Jones,

Don't lie to us, buddy--it was easy to say what you said-hell, you didn't even cite any sources--and I'll bet it must have felt good, in a sick little way, to tell the family of someone who is sick that there is no hope. Fuck you, buddy, and the horse you came in on!!

GUEST--Personally, I doubt that there has been any comprehensive medical research done on faith healing--there has been a lot of research done on how bad doctors are are predicting outcomes, and on the number of people with cancer of one kind or another who have actually died from the toxic effects of their chemotherapy--

Denis Leary said it best, "There ain't no cure for cancer", which is to say, there is no medical cure for cancer, but lots of people with incurable cancer have gone into remission, for no reason that their doctors could make sense out of, and gone on to live full and long lives. I have known a couple people that were given up on by the doctors, but who managed to pull the foot out of the grave and walk on--belief is the key, finding faith, and finding someone who can help you to find and keep your faith--

If you can learn to ignore the Simon Jones of the world, who win a little victory everytime someone gives up hope, and the doctors, (who walk away, not because death is certain, but because they are uncertain about what to do) then you have got a fighting chance. Remember that with hope, everything is possible, and without it, nothing is possible.

One last thing, watch out for people who take advantage of your fear and weakness to get your money. And don't forget to put certain medical providers on that list-

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 01:43 PM

???????????????????????????????!!!

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM

As James Keelaghan sings,

"Who dies? Everyone dies!"

Simon Jones... ^5's man!

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Simon Jones
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 04:47 PM

GUEST,A Believer,

I did not cite any sources, because I didn't want to turn this thread into an academic discussion.

If you wish, PM me and I'll give you a whole pile of references

You say: people with incurable cancer have gone into remission, for no reason that their doctors could make sense out of

Absolutely. Medicine is constantly evolving and there are still many things that aren't understood.

Just because something isn't yet fully understood by science, doesn't make it a miracle.

One difference between 'science' and 'faith' is that science keeps an open mind and is always happy to be proved wrong, and re-evaluate things.

Anyhow, PM me if you want to know more

Simon

PS:

I'll bet it must have felt good, in a sick little way, to tell the family of someone who is sick that there is no hope

I have to say I found that comment a little hurtful, but no matter.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: GUEST,LabTech
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 05:38 PM

I am near the bottom of the medical research feeding chain, but I can tell you that the big fish at the top don'tstay there by admitting that they are wrong--I pity the fool who proves that the medical community is wrong about something--

In the end, though the truth will win out, but the one that discovers it often pays a terrible price. With all its flaws, you've got to go with the Medical Establishment, because the New Agers don't know science at all, so they have no objective way of establishing what is true and what isn't--

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 05:57 PM

First of all, beware dragging the patient through hell because of desperate hopes. Also, beware money-grubbing charlatans who take advantage of desperate situations.

I am generally a skeptic, but if the situation has already been declared hopeless, then I see no harm in trying just about anything. After all, doctors are forced to admit (although reluctantly) that "the placebo effect" is a real phenomenon.

Be prepared for the worst, but there's no harm in hoping for the best.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Simon Jones
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 06:21 PM

There is however a good deal of heartbreak involved in assuming the best..

GUEST,LabTech,

What you have said is so absurd, I'm not even going to bother to answer.

Yes, I am a Doctor

Simon

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 08:04 PM

Hard subject, here. I've done my share of praying for people who didn't get well. Some died. I think that there is mounting evidence in the medical profession that people who have faith that they are going to get well have a higher rate of success in actually getting well. If every prayer was answered, the world would have died of starvation long ago, overpopulated to extinction. No sense arguing this baby. You can't prove that a miraculous healing wasn't just a BIG TIME placebo effect, or just an inexplicable scientific curiosity. Can't prove nothin'. That's why they call it faith. I do believe though, that everybody has faith in something. If you didn't have faith any anything, I think it'd be hard to believe. Just may not be a faith in a higher power.

Compassion seems to be called for here. And no judgment on what anyone believes. Or doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Simon Jones
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 08:38 PM

And no judgment on what anyone believes. Or doesn't.

Amen to that.

There are however facts, and there are many badly constructed approximations of knowledge:

"a friend of a friend of mine who had cancer, and the doctor didn't give him any chance, went to this guy, and he's cured now!"

Conclusion: doctors know nothing, and are employed by the state as part of some conspiracy...

It's late, and I'll never convince those who choose to believe nonsense anyway.

Good night and take care

Simon

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 08:47 PM

Hey, Simon:

Any true believer would put Doctors at the TOP OF THE LIST to be blessed! As one who believes, I think that Doctors are very special creations, and I praise you for all that you do. You see, I believe that the Lord uses people. Doctors, big time. Whether they are believers or not. Hey, he used David, and David had the husband of a woman he lusted after sent into battle to be killed! The instances of miraculous healing that I've seen have never seemed to be a repudiation of the medical profession. Those I've known who've come back from death's door have never uttered a negative word about the medical profession. If they had, I would have jumped all over them. I believe that God uses each of us, by giving us special gifts. You've been blessed with special gifts that you had to work hard for, for many years! There's no sittin' around, if you're trying to do something good for people.

Put me down for Major Appreciation for what you do! I belive that God IS love. As simple as that. You've dedicated yourself to caring for others. I suspect that it's out of love, not the money.

Good for you!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:39 PM

I guess I am one of the last of the classic "middle of the road"ers, but I believe that there is no right or wrong here.

Some people will find their way through it with Science...some will be happy with it and some will not. Some will find their way through with alternative health measures...some will be happy with it and some will not.

Some will die, and some will not. And the real burr under the saddle is that there is just no way to know until it is all said and done which of us is which.

So, if it were me, I'd say do both...plan for the worst and hope for the best. I'm with CarolC on the hospice idea...it would be a good place to work from when working on that goal of making the best happen.

I wish you and yours the very best in your journeys with this.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:52 PM

Well said, Celtic Soul.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 11:00 PM

Woody Allen says that "Life is a crapshoot" and I believe this to be true. My wife, Judy, died after a 17 month battle with cancer on Oct. 2, 1998. She was a woman of deep Faith and had the very best medical treatment. Her niece's husband, a doctor, turned us on to alternative treatments and toward the end she came to believe that certain people might be able to heal her. About 60 days before she died she entered into hospice care, continued with pain medications, prayer and a "Faith Healer". Well, the cancer was not healed but the "faith" was. She died a peaceful death in our bedroom with her loved ones around her. She was 53. There is a level of desperation that folks go thru when they are dieing. Steve McQueen ran all over the planet looking for the "cure". There is no "cure" for Cancer, just treatments that for reasons no one really understands work on one person but not the next. It isn't a faith issue. It isn't a faith healer issue. It's just... a crap shoot, and the odds are stacked with the house.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 11:15 PM

"Some will die, and some will not. And the real burr under the saddle is that there is just no way to know until it is all said and done which of us is which. "

ummm... no... we're all gonna die... it's just a question of how soon...

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Sourdough
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 12:39 AM

Dying can be terribly lonely. I hope that anyone who is making decisions about what to do for a terminally ill person gives that person every opportunity to talk about what it is that he or she wants.

Terrible things happen when a person is pushed to go to one faith healer and/or doctor to another in order to please loved ones at a time when the patient wants to let go or perhaps worse, is not given the time to come to terms with an approaching end.

For someone dealing with these issues, I really recommend Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. She knew more about dealing with death and dying than anyone I ever met. Her most read book is "On Death and Dying". Tens of thousands of people have found it very comforting.

There is much more that a loved one can do for the dying than just taking them to a succession of "last chances" but the way is never easy, it's often not even clear.

With best wishes -

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 01:26 AM

GUEST, you have made plain what you want, and that's certainly understandable. But if the cancer has metasticized, is your mother in pain? What is her quality of life right now? Considering the prognosis, does she want to fight it, or would she rather just end her days peacefully? The real, important question here is, what does your mother want?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Grab
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 08:07 AM

Guest, you can't buy miracles, I'm afraid. Sometimes bad shit happens to good ppl.

Medical science has covered most stuff, but there's still some things the medics don't understand. There's always a chance, just as someone always wins the Lottery. As discussed above though, the odds may be improved if your mother believes she will get better - if she has faith. That requires no travel anywhere, physically at least.

If this is really a last-ditch effort, you may want to ask about experimental therapies, or do your own investigations. Hospitals or universities may want volunteers. However, there's no guarantee that any of it will work, and in fact it's possible that any experimental therapies could shorten your mother's remaining time with you, or they could seriously affect her quality of life over that time by weakening her or causing her pain.

One area I heard about just recently is a guy called Rife who apparently did research into the effects of electromagnetic waves on bacteria and tumours. There's some links below - take it all with a LARGE quantity of salt, but I've corresponded with Aubrey Scoon on an electronics message board and he seems relatively sane. It's all rather bizarre and sounds like the Roswell rumours and similar pseudo-scientific junk, but Aubrey does claim some health benefits from the experiments he's done on himself - only anecdotal evidence though, I know. The theories sound rather dodgy (in particular the idea that every virus has a bacterial counterpart and can transform between them) but anyway. It may be that the medical community knows about this and knows it's snake-oil - if so, maybe Simon Jones can confirm or deny this.

Aubrey Scoon's website
Website about Rife

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 10:11 AM

:::giggle!!:::

Yes, Clinton, of course you're right!

I sorta just meant those dealing with issues like cancer might die of it, rather than old age or a bus. ;D

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Raptor
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:00 AM

I have a loved one who is about to die with bone cancer. And my wife and I are concentrating on triing to make the last days of her life as great as possable!
It took my wife a while to deal with denial and it did a lot of damage to her and robbed her mother of Happy time with us!
Now we are aware of the fact there is no escape we focus on peacefull quality time!
And we remind her how much she is loved!
Time now is valuable, Don't waste it with a stressful search looking for unrealistic goals!

Our thoughts are with you!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:19 AM

There is great wisdom here. I've been carrying all of these thoughts and prayers around in my mind and heart, and much of what I could say has already been said beautifully. You and your wife are very wise, Raptor. There IS a time to every season. Thank God that you were able to make peace with your situation and are sharing these precious days with your Wife's Moth. My Mother is 94, and still in good health, and my wife and I treasure every time we are able to be with her. She lives a thousand miles away, so we can only see her a copuple of weeks out of the year. As for faith healing, I've been reading a book on prayer, and as it would turn out, I'm currently reading a section of healing prayer. It makes some good points that have been made in this thread, but need to be empahsized. People don't have the power to heal people(except for Doctors, and even there, their abilities are not unlimited.) If a healing occurs, it is God who does the healing. It's funny, you know. Folks can post F*** you without causing any discomfort, but G*d is the name that is not to be spoken. For us Harry Potter fans, we know that we can speak the unspeakable. I believe that it is God (no asterisks God) who does the healing. But, sometimes the healing is of the Spirit, as someone wisely noted. Sometimes the prayer is answered with peace. I had a friend of mine who died a few years ago,who had suffered most of his later life and had wasted away. He wouldn't let anyone take his picture, because he said that when he looked in the mirror every morning, he didn't recognize the man looking back at him. The day he died, his wife told me that a beautiful peace flowed through him, and his face was transformed into the face of his youth. His wife saw the man she stood next to at the altar, and then he "flew Away." Oh, Glory! Scientists would probably come up with some physiological explanation for the transformation. (People assume Scientists don't believe in God, which is a serious mistake to make.) I see it as a prayer answered.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: GUEST,(MEJ)
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 03:41 PM

Dear Guest,

I have not had experience with faith healers myself, but I have known people in both conventional and alternative medicine who could access healing energy and pass it on to their patients. However, the action of this energy can bring up very difficult personal and family issues which must then be dealt with.

The current issue of the magazine Shaman's Drum has an article on a Brazilian faith healer, Joao de Deus, who has a healing center in Brazil. I would suggest calling the magazine (541-846-1313), getting a copy of the article, and asking your mother to read it and see whether she feels that this man might be of help to her.

The author of the article is an American neo-shamanic practitioner who has worked with this man for several years, and periodically takes people hoping for healing to his center. She has a website at:

Click here

I hope you are able to find the help your mother needs,

Best wishes,

Mary in Boston

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Sourdough
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 02:25 AM

The talk of "acceptance" and "letting go", remeinded me of something I had written in my journal several years ago when my mother died. It's a long post but today is almost the anniversary of her death and I have the feeling that I want to share this with the kind of people who are drawn to this thread.

11-20 This evening, when I came home, there was a message on the answering machine left by my sister in Boston. My mother was in the hospital, the tape told me, and my sister wanted me to call whenever I came home.

As soon as she answered the phone in Boston I asked her how our mother was doing.

"It's serious."

That's how the "dance" began. I couldn't bring myself to ask a direct question and she didn't want to give me a direct statement. We had to work our way towards the complete information like a Slinky going down stairs.

"Very serious", she said.

So it went until bit by bit I learned that the reason she hadn't answered her phone last night was that she had had a stroke and was lying next to the phone, on the couch, in a coma. My sister had been worried when she didn't answer the phone in the morning and had gone over to her apartment where she'd found her.

Her prognosis, the neurologist at the Peter Bent Brigham Hospital had told my sister, was that she will last for a couple of days until the swelling in her brain following the massive stroke, will finish her off.

Right now she is lying in a coma, her EEG is almost flat and if, miraculously she survives, she will be a comatose vegetable. Her wishes in this regard were very clear. She would want to die. The doctors have agreed not to take "heroic" actions and so now there is a death watch.

"Mother died yesterday. Or maybe the day before." is the way Camus'"The Stanger" begins. I read it thirty years ago and have never forgotten the cold matter of fact way the protagonist spoke of his parent's death but I feel that way tonight; detached, vaguely sad.If there is such a state, I am in pre-grief.

I've been lucky, I guess. I told my mother the things I wanted to say to her before now. At least I won't be haunted by those regrets but there is always more that could have been said, more that could have been done. Even something as simple as calling a day earlier. It wouldn't have changed anything but I would have spoken to her one more time.

11-24 By the time I reached the hospital after a cross-country flight from San Francisco, the doctors were able to tell me that the coma my mother was in was extremely deep. She had had a stroke, blood from a broken vessel haad flooded her brain and deprived most of the tissue of the food and oxygen needed to function. According to them, all cognitive function was gone. She had become what is often referred to as "a vegetable", something she had feared might someday happen to her.

They also were able to tell me that her condition was stable, a euphemism meaning that she would probably survive in this vegetative state for days, weeks or even longer.

When I went to the hospital, I found her alone in her hospital room, all the more alone because hospital personell don't spend a lot of time with comatose patients unless they are in critical condition. From the doorway, my mother looked as though she were sleeping. The only out of the ordinary things were the clear plastic oxygen mask over her mouth and nose and the IV dripping into a shunt in her left arm.

From closer up I could see a small crust on her eyelids which I washed away with the handtowel beside the bed.

I've never been close to Eunice (my sister and I always called our mother -and father- by first names). It always seemed to me that she had her own agenda in every conversation. She was very opinionated and she never seemed to listen. After a while, I had stopped trying to talk to her and we had drifted further apart. Only recently had we begun to repair the rifts that are ten and twenty years deep.

Now, in a hospital room overlooking the city where she had been born and had spent most of her life, she was dying. I looked out the window for a long while remembering a lot of things, trying to remember just the good things but the mixture that rose to my consciousness was a varied one.

After a bit, I started talking to her. I was still looking out the window and I told her about the view. I could see parts of Boston University where she had gone to school and I talked about that as well as about how we used to drive home along the Charles River. I rattled on and on until I felt drawn back to her bedside.

I pulled up a chair and sat down near her head. My family was never very physical. Touching, hugging, kissing were done at moments of high emotion only. We were never much for sitting around with arms about each other and the like but now I was tracing my fingers across her forehead and brushing back her old-woman's bleached blonde hair. An inch of grey roots showed that she had really not been feeling well in some time. Otherwise she would never have allowed her hair to get into such a neglected state.

I continued talking to her, more gently now and about more serious concerns. I told her how Linda (my sister) was handling the details of dealing with physicians, hospitals and lawyers. I reminded her about what an unusually fine man Linda had married and how the two of them were raising two charming, happy and intelligent boys. I spoke of my two boys and of how much all of us were going to miss her.

When I heard myself say that we were going to miss her, the reality of her death moved closer to my comprehension and sadness rolled over me. My eyes started to fill and then overflow onto the bedclothes.

I remembered a book I'd read years ago, "The Autobiography of a Yogi". There is a story in that book about the yogi's walking through the forest. He finds a dying fawn beside the trail and he begins to pray over it, asking that it be spared from death. He prays so hard that the fawn stabilizes. It doesn't get better but it doesn't get worse. The praying has taken all of the yogi's strength and, exhausted, he falls asleep against a tree.

In a dream, the spirit of the fawn comes to him and asks him to let go, to stop praying for him. "please let me go, it is my time. Don't keep me here."

Now I understood. With my hand on her still warm cheek, I told my mother that everything was now under control, "You're done here now, you can leave whenever you want". I was now sobbing as I finished talking to her.

"I'd like to be here when you leave but if that's not possible for you, I'll understand." I stood up, placed a hand on each of her cheeks and kissed her on the forehead. I could see where the moisture from my eyes had marked her face and that brought a new flood of tears. I stood up. I don't know whether I whispered or spoke it but I said "Goodbye". I drew my hand back, turned and walked into the corridor. I had the feeling that this time, in this last conversation, after all of those years of tring to get through to her that this time, this sad time with this sad message, she had heard me.

My mom died at 5:25 that morning. The doctor said she just stopped breathing and was gone.

At the end, I think there was an acceptance and a sense of peace on both sides.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: bernil
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:48 AM

Thank you, Sourdough, for sharing this with us! My tears have been streaming as I read it…

I haven't said anything in this thread before but I've read everything with great interest. I guess I can't find the right words but your story is very, very fine and important. As for me I've recently lost a sister and I hope and think I managed to have the same attitude. She was anesthetized (?) as it would have been too painful to be awake with all instruments and so and we never got the chance to talk to her after she arrived to the intensive care unit. But we were with her a lot of the time (for about a week) and talked to her and I gave her healing (Reiki) but prayed that God should do what was best for her. If she had survived she might have had too many problems to get a good life and I guess that's why God made the decision that it was better for her to die.

Her heart gave up for a couple of times but they made it start again. Then the doctor talked to us and told us there was no chance so we decided that we should let her go the nest time it happened. It was... I don't know how to explain this in English... it felt strange but both good and bad. Many of us were sitting at her bed and we knew that the end would come very soon.

We didn't meet so often but most often talked on the phone. When we met it was most often at her place. But the weekend before she came to the hospital I had invited her for dinner and we talked for hours... There was nothing then that showed that she was ill. That makes me very happy to think of and I think God had a finger in the pie there too!

And I'm absolutely sure that they can "hear" what we say even if they are in coma or anesthetized. There are people who have survived and told that they've heard everything! Doc's and nurses also have a big responsibility here - never say negative things near a person who doesn't seem to be able to hear things!!!

Somebody mentioned Elisabeth Kubler-Ross and her books are really wonderful! Aha, that was you too!

Berit

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: RichM
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 08:17 AM

Lots of well-meant advice being given here.

How do you find a healer? I know they exist, from my personal experience, but I have no "scientific" way to prove this. My mother was a healer, as was my grandmother. I only discovered this later in my life. My mother was very private about these abilities.

I am not a healer, but I have been able to remove pain from others. Why? I don't know. It's particularly ironic because for most of my life I was a critic of such non-scientific "humbug".

Should you continue to seek a healer for your mother? Yes, but be wary, though not necessarily dismissive of those who want money for it. Don't give up conventional medical in keeping her comfortable.

If you are a spiritual person, pray or meditate for guidance in finding help-- and to accept that it may be your mother's fate to leave this world soon.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 09:03 AM

What a beautiful story, Sourdough! The old, sentimental song says "parting is such sweet sorrow." And it sure is. All who have responded to this thread are not only reaching out to give comfort to the one who started this thread. We are giving comfort to each other... those who have lost a parent recently, and those who face the growing reality that they'll be facing the same experience. My Father died three years ago of a massive stroke at the age of 92. It happened very suddenly, and I am grateful for that. He'd had occasional small strokes, and had a more powerful one very early one morning. My Mother called the nurses in the residence where they lived and the nurses came to be with my Father and Mother while they waited for the ambulance to come. Dad was sitting up in the chair, with the nurses on each side of him, and he was cracking them up, telling funny stories. Everyone was in high spirits, and then the massive stroke hit, he pitched forward out of his Lazy Boy onto the carpet, and was gone. I'm sure that he praised the Lord that he died, while making others laugh.

In these messages, we all end up talking about ourslves. That's as it should be. We bring our love and grief and hope out of our own experience. Sharing them strengthens us all. My Mother is 94, now, and even though her brothers and sisters lived into their mid and upper 90's, I know that I will face all of these emotions one of these days. This thread will carry us all forward with hope. And, just as there is a time for healing, there is a time for letting go. My Mother's great expectation is to be united with her Mother, who died when my Mother was just 11. It's been a long wait. There will be rejoicing, as well as grieving, when she goes home.

Hallelujah!!!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Janie
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 02:54 PM

Guest,

I encourage you and your family to work with your mother to support her in whatever path(s) she chooses to explore for her own healing, be it of body or of mind and soul, and above all else treat yourselves and each other with mercy and loving kindness. In addition to Kubler-Ross, I also recommend Stephen Levine, especially "Meetings at the Edge" and "Healing into Life and Death." I pray for all who are enfolded in the circle of your family.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Kaleea
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 03:40 AM

There is a place in Tulsa, Oklahoma which used to be called the "Cancer Treatment Center of Tulsa", however I don't know if that is now the correct name. I have known of several persons who were "terminal" who found the answers they were looking for there. It is in the south end of Tulsa, on South Lewis, around East 81st street. It used to be the "City of Faith", formerly a part of Oral Roberts University, but is no longer a part of the University. Have you considered a Native American medicine man or woman? Some people have found Chinese doctors who can sometimes bring a patient into remission. Many people I know have found help from a Spiritualist healer or minister. The Spiritualist Church was founded over 150 years ago. There is a fine Spiritualist Church Camp called Camp Chesterfield in Chesterfield, Indiana, which might be able to assist you in finding a good Spiritualist Minister or healer in your area. There are also a couple of fine organizations which have a good reputation for assisting persons in need of prayer (without demanding money). The Self Realization Fellowship, in Los Angeles, California, which was founded by Paramahansa Yogananda--the yogi who brought yoga to the western world-- is always willing to pray with & for persons with prayer needs. Silent Unity, located in Unity Village, Missouri, will also pray with you right over the phone, and send you written prayers & letters of encouragement. I have a group of ladies who meet regularly, and we often pray for healing & needs of friends, family, & others, contact me if you desire (you can find directions to contact mudcat members on the homepage). Or post a message again if that doesn't work & I will respond. Try to stay away from ads for "psychic healers", as there are many who claim to be "healers" and will always have a large fee. A minister will pray for someone in need, and should not ask for a fee. Some will accept a donation, but a true minister of God will not ask for it (but may merely accept if urged to). Whatever your belief system or religion, there is always hope. Know that there is a Divine Being (God, Jesus, Allah, Yahweh, Great Spirit, Divine Father, Divine Mother--whatever name you desire to use), who loves us and wants us to be happy, healthy and whole. Don't forget to ask for prayer for youself & the other family members along with prayer for your mother, as all of you are in need of peace of mind, strength, and love. Kaleea

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 09:41 AM

Beautiful, Kaleea. My sister used to work in the Silent Unity Telephone prayer room. Excellemt suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 11:32 PM

Well ... Here I am, with a history of being critical of non-folk music postings, and I feel the need to post here. I was raised in the penticostal faith. Both of my GrandMothers, one American and one Finnish, were penticostal preachers. My childhood was very strange, so when I was 5 and 6 and 7 and 8, I mostly lived with one Grandparent or the other. I well remember the Summer I was seven. I lived with my American Grandma, who was also the local preacher for a Penticostal parish ... we lived in the Parish house, next door to the church. It WAS church services EVERY night of the week, and three times on Sunday. My family still talks about the time, I was eight and I decided to start 'speaking in tongues.' (I can still do it, if the money is right). I brought souls to the alter, and yes, I did lay hands on and heal. Was it phoney? No, not for me when I was seven. Where (how?) did I learn it ... from my Grandmothers. To further muddy the waters ... my best friend (Lauren) died of cancer ten years ago. It was fast and horrible. When the Doctors gave up, he called me and said he was going to a faith healer in Mexico. He died on shedule, but he did tell me that the healer did him some spiritual good. Do I believe in faith healing? Sure! Will it work for you ... who knows. I do believe that 'faith healing' can bring the powers of faith that are within you to the front, and that can help. Bob ... trying to be respectfull and helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Sourdough
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 09:22 PM

Laleea:

It was from Paramahansa Yogananda's book, Autobiography of a Yogi", that I learned the story of the deer. It was someting that happened to Yogananda when he was a young man and he carried that story with him as a parable for the rest of his life.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: Deda
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 10:42 PM

Sourdough -- Your story was particularly moving for me because my mother was also named Eunice, and we siblings often called her by her name -- my brothers more than I. She died of emphysema, at the age of 76; she had started smoking in her teens. During the last maybe ten years of her life she was hospitalized at ever-more-frequent intervals. I had some wonderful times with her during the last year or so before her death, when I would go back to visit her every couple of months. I was devastated by her death, and still struggle with the loss. It's been 14 years, and I still feel sometimes that I'm trying to drag her back to life like the yogi's fawn.

As for faith healing, in a way, I think that is the only kind of healing there is. I recognize that it is not faith that enable penicillin to cure bacterial diseases that used to be fatal -- but it is faith, of some kind, that drives us to want to live. If the desire to live is intense, then healing has a powerful shot at working; if the desire to live is weak or doubtful, then healing is very unlikely. For myself, I also believe in prayer. There are a number of books by Larry Dossey, MD, outlining various studies that have been done on the power of prayer to help healing, whether the person being prayed for believes in it or even knows about it or not. But prayer can only work to heal some passing condition; it can't heal us of being mortal.

I also recommend Stephen Levine's books. Whether someone is going to die of the current illness or not, she is going to die sooner or later, and it is a good idea to give some thought to what that means, and how you will come to terms with it, before the grim reaper knocks.

Subject: RE: BS: faith healers
From: GUEST,Souter
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 10:18 PM

I am sorry about your mother, but I know that there are people out there who like to prey on grieving reletives. The sad truth is, no one lives forever. If you are comforted by this, then that's good. But I know how easy it is to throw money at charlatans, in the hopes they can help. Maybe some can, but I believe most are just out to take your money. Please accept my sympathy.