What are other names for the accordion?

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 05:24 PM

Does anyone know of any names or terminology that can be used to refer to boxes that are the same note in and out, and boxes that are a different note in and out, in order to differentiate them, rather than having to go through a big explanation like I just did?

Crane Driver, I can't speak for the (gentle)men, but you can tell you're friend Keith for me that I play the accordion and I ain't no lady.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:56 PM

Yup, Keith plays a three-row Hohner, and he's the guy Pavane is thinking of.

And a concertina is only a type of accordion in the same sense that a guitar is a type of banjo.

Stands back and waits for explosion

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:39 AM

G'ady CarolC,

The problem is that, even if you do know exactly which accordion you mean ... it's no help if the person you talking to doesn't. I just try to be consistent:

A piano accordion is fairly well understood ... nobody but a real fanatic knows about "Free Bass" (extra bass that can play a non-chorded, 'classical' bass line) ... only Arabic players or fans know about ¼ tone piano accordions ...

Push-pull button accordions range from melodeons (which don't have any real choice of chords. 'Vienna' models, with a few more chords, slip up to being 'Button Accordions. If there are 2 or 3 rows a semitone apart they are Chromatic Button Accordions (British or Irish vaguely delineated by size and style). The ones with 'Stradella' bass (piano accordion style) are all 'ritish Chromatic'. There is a particular variety popular in Europe, especially France, with 2½ rows of buttons and with the middle dominant note sounding both in and out ... The Italians have a bunch or regional models ... and they all have their own names - but are all harmonicas (armonicas?) to most Europeans.

The 3 to 6 row, same note in and out, chromatics are called 'Chromaticas' ... by the italians, but nobody (much) else. they also come in at least 3 different schemes, with national preferences.

If you're not confused yet ... I have to sort myself out before I try to get you more puzzled!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:53 AM

G'day again ...

I forgot: Crane Driver - most musical textbooks class concertinas a sub-set of accordion. That is entirely reasonable as they are technically no different ... they certainly are different in detail - but the range of concertinas has more difference from each other, than concertinas have from accordions!

I do note that The Oxford Dictionary and its offspring define a concertina in its own terms - without need to call up the image of an accordion ... but that is intended for people capable of understanding English.

The The Oxford Compamion to Music (the old Percy Scholes 1-volume) starts of by referring you to: The Reed Organ Family"(!) and then makes the hoary old claim that the concertina was invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone as an improvement on Buschman's early (1821) accordion (or akkordion?).

You can take your pick ... BTW: The Guitar and Banjo are both members of the lute family ...? (A long way down the branches ... but sharing the critical characteristics (if little else).

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:53 AM

G'day again ...

I forgot: Crane Driver - most musical textbooks class concertinas a sub-set of accordion. That is entirely reasonable as they are technically no different ... they certainly are different in detail - but the range of concertinas has more difference from each other, than concertinas have from accordions!

I do note that The Oxford Dictionary and its offspring define a concertina in its own terms - without need to call up the image of an accordion ... but that is intended for people capable of understanding English.

The The Oxford Compamion to Music (the old Percy Scholes 1-volume) starts of by referring you to: The Reed Organ Family"(!) and then makes the hoary old claim that the concertina was invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone as an improvement on Buschman's early (1821) accordion (or akkordion?).

You can take your pick ... BTW: The Guitar and Banjo are both members of the lute family ...? (A long way down the branches ... but sharing the critical characteristics (if little else).

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 05:40 AM

What's a Club model Bob? Is that the one you said is particularly popular in France or is it something else again?

Jon

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 07:19 AM

G'day Jon Freeman,

The Clubs are generally built in the standard box for a small 3-row (~ Hohner's Corona II or III) - usually in 2 keys ... more like 'Band' keys eg Bb/F or Eb/Bb .. plus a half row of semitones in the inside position ... at least that keeps 'em all in one place, instead of the end of the row positions on the boxes I play (keeps the thumb working, anyway).

I understand that they are the popular folk box in France, Switzerland &c. I see the logic, but I haven't seen one in a set of keys that would get me any distance in a session, so i haven't really played one. I guess they would be great if you had a lot of friends in bands - the marching ot woodwind variety!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 11:28 AM

Thanks Bob Bolton.

The 3 to 6 row, same note in and out, chromatics are called 'Chromaticas' ... by the italians, but nobody (much) else. they also come in at least 3 different schemes, with national preferences.

Are these the ones that I was referring to as 'continental chromatics'. That's the term I heard used for an accordion that is essentially the same as a piano accordion except with buttons on the treble side rather than keys.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 12:10 PM

I've always called them "Knacker catchers" as once a melodian player friend described an accident he had with an accordian, many years ago. I've called them that since the 70's.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 09:45 PM

G'day,

CarolC: Yes ... Chromatica seems to be an older, European name and Continental chromatic is what they are called by people who don't see themselves as Continental. they all have a 'heart' of 3 rows ... the extra rows of buttons are simply remote-links, allowing different fingering, but playing the same reed(s). The only 6-row models I have seen were being played by Russians.

Eric the Viking: I knew there was another good reason for my preference for playing standing up!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 03:21 PM

Oh what a joy is a common language!
OK if diatonic doesn't refer to the obvious derivation as in di'vided then what is the term for playing a different note in and out?
mouth organs, concertinas, melodeons? What describes their facility and distinguishes it from the monotonically keyed?
or did I miss something here?
Were they called bitonic, no surely they are free reeds?
Syntonic (SOED CD ROM - Designating or exhibiting the responsive, lively type of temperament which is liable to manic-depressive psychosis). I hear a few votes there, none platonic though.
tectonic - no that might describe the bellows
Ah! of course twotonic (well it was invented by a German).
cast your votes NOW with a **BG**.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:07 PM

Mr Red, are you using the word 'monotonic' to refer to 'same note in and out'?

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:17 PM

No idea what the name is.

For the record, according to my dictionary (The Chambers Dictionary}, diatonic comes from the Greek diatonikos. - , from dia - through and tonos - tone.

To confuse the issue, one could consider "pentatonic" where the bit before the tonic does refer to 5.

Jon

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 06:18 PM

Melodians are indeed a separate instrument and don't burn nearly as long as an accordion.

(Only grinning slightly)

Rich

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 09:28 PM

G'day Mr Red,

In some quarters, same note in and out is called 'single action' and the alternative 'double action' (... just a little too close to the operating systems of pistols ...). Anyway, this is confused by Wheatstone calling large English system concertinas (basses, specially voiced 'clarinet' or 'oboe' models &c) that sound on the push and have huge 'flap valves' to refill the bellows quickly on the draw ... 'single action'.

There seems to be no agreed term - and folk musicians are too indivualistic for one to appear in the near future.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 10:30 PM

G'day again 24½ months later,

I looked through this thread because it was linked in Foolestroupe/Robyn Hayes' rather schlolarly thread:
Piano Accordion: for the Recycled Musician.

One thing I noticed was that the confusion (& "folk etomolgy" ... ) about the meaning and derivation of diatonic had not been cleared up. Most of the problem comes from approximations of Latin suggesting "di(a)" means (~) "two". It does not - the Greek meaning is "through" ... so diatonic should mean "through the tones" - but it really means "through the notes, or, as in my Concise Oxford, "... involving only notes proper to the prevailing key without chromatic alteration ...".

This means it has only the "natural" notes of one "key" (or "scale"). Any additional notes are "chromatic" in that they add additional "colours" ... the semitones that are needed for constructing other keys" or "scales.

This means that the basic layout of 9 - 11 buttons per row is "diatonic" ... even though the next row - or the button at the end of that row - may have additional semitones. The typical 3-row button accordion imported into Australia has half a dozen 'semitones' on the 3 rows - plus a few more across the adjoining rows. One of these can (with lots of manoeuvring) play nearly 2 octaves of fully chromatic scale ... and, maybe, John Kirkpatrick actually does ... but very few others do! As the arrangemment is not intrinsically for playing chromatic scales, rather for adding occasional semitones, it is still fair (if confusing!) to call such accordions diatonic.

Since the adjoining (~ diatonic) rows, at semitone intervals, of a "British Chromatic" are intended to be played chromatically ... the name "chromatic" is fair enough for these instruments - despite their "diatonic" format.

I hope that hasn't just confused you ...

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 10:34 PM

Errr... Quick, pedantic, revisit:

I was suggesting it was the Latin "bi-" (~ = two/double) that caused the confusion ... I do know that "di-" can mean two/double from the Greek "dis" ... but the term diatonic uses the Greek "dia" (~ = through).

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 01:18 AM

Bob B -

I think it's di - atonic, ... a scale based on repetition of two nonmusical or "atonic" intervals. (We're talking free reeds here, yes?????)

<insert grin if needed>

John

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 01:45 AM

I came on this radical thought a while ago ---

The western music scale is composed of two "parts"

Let's look at C Major

C E G B & D F A C

disagree? Well let's just see what I can do on the Accordion...

the first part goes well with the C Major chord, and the second part goes well with the G Dim 7th chord...

incidentally, you can also fit in the F Maj chord

F A C E


and if THAT doesn't confuse you ...

the Greeks had "tetra-chords" .... allegedly this is the basis on which our scales are built...
:-)

and, thank you, Boob Bolton, my name's Rob_i_n   ;-)

No.... I'll just let the typo stand.... :-)

So Bob, I'd like to "borrow" part of your pedantic description for my "Opus"...

Hope your silence on "The Opus" reflects tacit approval overall, rather than disinterest caused by me getting things totally screwed up...
:-)

Robin

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 06:05 AM

My understanding of Harmonica and Armonica comes from Harmony - harmonicas and different-note-draw-and-blow instruments can be used to provide simple chords by using adjacent buttons/holes. EG C harmonica plays C chord on the blow and variously G G7 and Dm on the draw.

The original key of keyboard instuments I thought was A but most (church) music was minor in character, so the relative major is C.

Does that make any sense?

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Ndolo Ojukwe
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 07:15 AM

The instruments to be found in Africa, made from ground nut wood, tinned steel and ivory buttons are often referred to by the disrespectful name "OBINGO OBANGO"

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 07:59 AM

My EB says

Diatonic: a musical term signifying literally "through the tones", otherwise music in which the notes employed are confined to those of the key, major or minor, in which it is written. Hence diatonic music gives a general impression of strength, simplicity and solidity as distinguished from the more restless and poignant character of chromtic music in which notes from foreign keys are introduced by accidentals. The diatonic was one of the three Greek genera of scale.

The phrase "notes ... confined to those of the key" is what I always remembered from my Music Theory days...

Robin

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 11:19 AM

Addition to MudGuard's post:
Quetschn (Bavarian) is short for germ. Quetschkommode, composition of quetschen v/t to squeeze, to squash, to press and Kommode n. f. chest of drawers, Am. bureau - an uppity version of the simple box. Reminds me of the fifteen men on the dead man's chest. It's time for drink and the devil to do for them, too, if they are still squeezing their seaman's piano.

Wilfried
(enforced drill with the accordeon in my youth)

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Glen Reid
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM

My old friend " Newfoundland,s Favorite Son" the late Harry Hibbs often referred to his accordion as a "SQWOCKBOX"
His instrument of choice was a 2 row Hohner, of the push pull variety,which produced more than its share of sqeacks and sqwocks
What I wouldnt give, to hear it again.
Cheers,Glen

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM

Stomach Steinway?
Belly Baldwin?
Pinch piano?
An unduly noisy device for imprinting presumably decorative vertical pleats in the manipulator's abdomen?
A millstone around one's neck?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Spot
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 02:27 PM

I used to play in a 4 piece . the lass played accordion which was dubbed "The 'Effin Whiffenpoof"!!!

                         Regards to all... Spot (Not the dog or In the kennels) ..just plain old Spot !!   Happy Christmas...!!

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: AKS
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 03:29 AM

Here in Finland it is also known - by certain people - as pirun keuhko(t) 'the devil's lung(s)'...

AKS

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 04:24 AM

This is true, I once saw a guy trying out a piano in a shop.
He was stretched out on the floor with his right hand reaching up to play the keys. I thought he was drunk but he turned out to be an Accordian player.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:18 AM

The three Greek genera of scale -> diatonic, chromatic, enharmonic.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 09:51 PM

G'day Robin,

So the piano accordion comes in both chromatic and (in Arab quarters, at least) enharmonic genera ... ?

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:00 PM

Hi Bob,

I have heard that some boxes were "retuned" in Africa (no more specific info than this) to differernt tuning scales that are quite differetrnt to the Western Equally Tempered scale. I am anable to conceive which of the three genera that would put them in... :-)

BTW, how are you going with some of that info on "Piano Accordions in Australlian Social & Historical Contexts"... ;-)

Robin

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:16 PM

G'day Robin,

There are stories of various degrees of "retuning" of accodions &c from all around the place ... often it just means adjusting the 'voicing' or 'tremolo' to local taste (ranging from the Irish totally "dry" ... as near as possible to exact tuning of all reeds to the same pitch ... so the accordion sounds like concertina ... ? - to the really wide "French Musette" degree of tremolo - just begging to play Under the Bridges of Paris ... ).

In other cases it can be taking a diatonic instrument back to more 'pure' intervals, which is possible since they don't roam off into distant key signatures that demand the 'tempered scale'. My friend Richard Evans, concertina maker / repairer in the Blue Mountains behind Sydney, has tuned some 20-key Anglo concertinas in such a modified scale ... and they are really beautiful ... in their 'home' keys!

In the case of Arab world's ¼ tone accvordions, they seem to look just like standard piano accordions - but I've never laid hands on one (although there must be a few about Sydney, these days) - so I presume they have spaced out the chromatic notes to allow for the (enharmonic ... ?) ¼ tones. Certainly, Africa has a host of 'microtonic' (or enharmonic) scales in its traditions - often credited with being the source of non-standard intervals used in Blues and Jazz.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:00 PM

Hi Bob,

just picked up your comments of a few days ago in the FolkAustralia Yahoo Forum - little plug there - oooooo, should be careful what I say, taking into account other current threads... :-)

ahhh,
well, about 1/4 tone accordions, I read that a tuner had been asked to set up a P/A with normal notes in one direction, and quarter tone tuned notes in the other - that's the limit of my wide "experience" on that subject. :-) Apart from other casual mentions of "weird Arab tunings" etc comments I have seen around.

As to whether they are 1/4 tuned to the "normal western equally tempered scale" - I ASS-U-ME so... :-)

Of course, if you are only going to play in a very limited number of Keys (and things like Irish Folk used to play a lot in mainly G/D for instance - because of the pipes and whistles!) then you COULD very well tune "microtones" to the "Just Intonation" (especially for "Diatonic" boxes which will have a restricted range anyway) - and there's lots of other Mudcat threads that have talked the legs off that pig!

For isntruments tuned "Just" - they can sound really great - if not played with "Equally Tempered" Instruments. Of course, human voices (and non-fretted string instruments) can do either naturally...

Robin

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Rowan
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:04 AM

Another (Oz) term for piano accordion, that I haven't seen in the thread, is "potato masher" but that may be a term only favoured by concertina players who dislike their instrument being called a "squeezebox".

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:59 AM

Aren't the terms CarolC is looking for are Unisonoric and Bisonoric? (Although I have a feeling that Uni means it only plays one note in one direction and a different note in the other and Bi goes both ways the same? - might be double bluffing myself there though)

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,grumpy
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:11 PM

A couple of years ago me and my pal were at Newcastleton festival trying to find a tunes session. There were sessions filled with singers, and more than one pub dominated by a single accordian player, but we couldn't find a tunes session. We renamed accordians 'discordians' and went home dissapointed.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:37 PM

I hear that Lead Belly called his a Windjammer. I've always liked that.
- Phil

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 03:28 AM

Paddy Moloney used to call them ' maccordions ' because he disliked them but I have seen him play a melodeon,

Dave H

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Monique
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:01 AM

In France it can be called "piano à bretelles" (piano with straps)

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:04 AM

".... accompanied by Joe Bloggs on the zebra-crossing!"

Regards

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:13 AM

"I hear that Lead Belly called his a Windjammer."

Windjammer was a name used in Australia by early German Settlers (1800s) for a certain type of diatonic button box. The labeled period photos I have seen of players show often a fairly large box, with anything up to 7 pull stops. I was of the impression that it was a brand name (it was commonly used in certain Aussie areas), but I have no documentation to hand.

This was decades before the tales of Leadbelly calling his small instrument by that name.

Robin

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:16 AM

"What are other names for the accordion?"



George, Zelda, Moonbeam--there are many to choose from.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:23 AM

SQUEEZE BOX
The Who - 1976


Mama's got a squeezebox
She wears on her chest
And when Daddy comes home
He never gets no rest
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeezebox
Daddy never sleeps at night

Well the kids don't eat
And the dog can't sleep
There's no escape from the music
In the whole damn street
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeezebox
Daddy never sleeps at night

She goes in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out

She's playing all night
And the music's all-tight
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night

She goes, squeeze me, come on and squeeze me
Come on and tease me like you do
I'm so in love with you
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night

She goes in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out

'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all-right
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:34 AM

Bizarrely, the featured instrument on that track is a (5-string?) banjo!

Someone once asked me if the squeezebox in that song might be a euphemism, but I pointed out that it couldn't be, as a euphemism is a large brass instrument...!!

(I've already got me coat!)

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:40 AM

LOL

Imagine, two instruments of the devil on one track.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:41 AM

;o)

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,thirdpotato
Date: 10 Oct 17 - 11:05 PM

This has been a fascinating thread! I was researching it for a period piece I'm writing in 1930s Germany, and was looking for nicknames one might call them.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 01:59 AM

My father used to call both my Wheatstone and my grandfather's Enrico Bertin accordion "Gamonkas" which are obviously from the same root as harmonica.

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Leadbelly
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 04:51 PM

In Germany pure bottom accordions are called Bandoneons...Got one from my father bought in 1920 and it's still working...

Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 06:09 PM

I sincerely hope that was a typo, GUEST Leadbelly.