BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: lady penelope
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 06:06 PM

Astonishing page!

The whole idea of getting people who don't need to be in cars out of them is so that people who do ( fitters, plumbers, carpenters, maintainance people of all stripes, delivery crews, glaziers etc.....) can get around. I don't understand charging someone who has to use a vehicle, to provide a service, to make a living is charged the congestion levy. That's way too much stick.

But half a mile is not too much for people to walk ( even if they're only vaguely healthy) and in London particularly, the majority of journies made in a car are under half a mile in private vehicles.

I like the Venice idea, best.

TTFN M'Lady P.

"It's only me - oooooh........" Cornetto in hand, I drift into the sunset........

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: ddw
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 12:45 AM

Getting back to the premise that something needs to be done now to relieve congestion (and assuming it's going to take time to get people to give up their cars), it seems to me the best thing the Brits could do would be to get rid of traffic circles. They take up too much space, slow traffic unnecessarily and annoy the hell out of all and sundry, especially of there is someone like me (at first) who had no idea what you were supposed to do in them.

I asked several people why in the world they would use them and the inevitable reply was "They keep the traffic moving."

To which I usually replied: "Bullshit!"

There was an area near the house where we were staying in which there were seven (literally, seven) of the things in less than a mile. That's slightly less annoying than stop signs ever block, but not much. As for keeping things moving, you still have to stop and wait for any traffic coming from your right to clear, so I don't see how that's any help when traffic is heavy.

If you really want to keep traffic moving and still keep the speed controlled, try what may U.S. and Canadian cities do. Go back to standard intersections and time the lights. In lots of places you may have to stop at one traffic light, but if you then maintain a steady speed close to the posted limit you can drive for miles without having to stop at another. If you speed up you'll be caught by another light.

works for me.....

david

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 12:57 AM

I like traffic circles (roundabouts).john

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 01:14 AM

(they keep the traffic moving)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 04:21 AM

I have recently returned from Seattle WA in the States and caught some TV ads for the Mayoral elections. One of the candidates was standing on a commitment to sort out Seattle's traffic problems, which are major.

I doubt that he'll be able to do much but least it gets on the political agenda over there which is more than can be said for the UK

R

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 07:29 AM

"Traffic circles" - no, "Roundabouts" is a much more colourful name, and that's what they are called. Dead easy to negotiate once you'd got the knack.

Harlow probably has the largest concentration in the country. The legend is that when Sir Frederick Gibberd, the Harlow Master Planner had made the Master Plan for the New Town, he had a party, with the big map on the table. Only it was so big it took up all the table, and the guests put their drinks down on it, and left lots of little round marks all over the place. And that is why we have all these roundabouts.

They work pretty well. Originally the idea was there'd be no need for traffic lights, but now we've got a good number of them as well, and some roundabouts have traffic lights incorporated. If it all serves to confuse the tourists from benighted places where they don't have roundabouts, maybe that's a bonus...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Grab
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 08:40 AM

Roundabouts work by kind of giving priority to the road with the busiest traffic. Once someone goes straight across, the person opposite can also go, and so it continues. Until eventually someone turns left or right, and then the other lanes get a chance to go and establish themselves. It does all work out in the end, trust me. :-) And space-wise, they don't have to take up any more room than a typical US/Canadian intersection, plus there's the bonus of having a pretty flowerbed in the middle of the larger ones - what more could you ask for? ;-)

Traffic lights have the disadvantage that even if there's no-one coming from the other direction, the traffic is still stopped. Plus there's a huge bias against turning across the traffic, which can create serious tailbacks - it's just as easy to go in any direction at a roundabout.

Now 4-way stops, that's a lousy idea...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: EarlofSidcup
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 09:16 AM

Harlow certainly has the most manic multitoundabout in the country, closely followed by Swindon. Cambridge is the worst town for traffic management.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 09:26 AM

Traffic circles! Harlow's collection, as Kevin has remarked, is legendary.

French "circles de traffique" work similarly, but only seem to allow for one circulating lane of traffique, and insist that "vous n'avez pas le priorite". And they go round widdershins! The rationale for UK driving on the left is obviously so that WE go round clockwise!

There is only one roundabout in the Frankfurt area in Germany, at Rodgau, and it causes untold confusion and numerous accidents among the otherwise orderly Teutons. They even have special coffins for the victims with gold decoration to commemorate the Teuton car man. ;o)

Alternatively, we could do away with roundabouts (I think I actually prefer "traffic circles"!) and adopt the South African convention, whereby the first vehicle arriving at a crossroads has the right of way. This can require a fine judgement and leads to some interesting encounters, but keeps the body shops (of both kinds) in business.

On the subject of dangerous conventions, how about the legal right turn against a red traffic light, as in the US?

No, we're going to have to learn to live with smaller vehicles or no vehicles at all, but this can't be done until public transport and the rest of the infrastructure has been sorted out.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:01 AM

AAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!!

One hour without moving, between 9 & 8 on the M6 yesterday. 5 hours to get from Shrewsbury to Essex! And the radio in the car had packed up - mind you I've only got another 25 verses to go and I'll have all of Tam Lin.

How many more times are they going to dig that bit up? When the orbital is finished, is the idea that lorries will be banned from the M6?

BTW - Guest Harvey Andrews, if it's really you, you are one of my heros.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: EarlofSidcup
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:02 AM

Which will be never

Subject: RE: BS: UK Traffic problems - Solutions?
From: Grab
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM

*grin* "Teuton car man" took me a reread to get... :-)

Lanfranc, that's the same as the "4-way stop" in the States. And 2 ppl arriving at the same time will always cause chaos. At least at a roundabout, you shouldn't get stalled unless all four arrive at the same time (although learners, grannies and the terminally insecure will bugger things up anyway).

Milton Keynes is Roundabout City. But they're all 2-lane ones, and all the roads are dual carriageways, so it's notoriously good for testing your acceleration, braking and cornering. And for parking anyone who's not up to scratch in the scenery.

Graham.