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Lyr Add: Seven Irish Men

paddymac 16 Nov 01 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,MCP 16 Nov 01 - 07:53 PM
paddymac 17 Nov 01 - 01:15 AM
paddymac 17 Nov 01 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,MCP 21 Nov 01 - 08:16 AM
Liam's Brother 21 Nov 01 - 03:47 PM
Liam's Brother 21 Nov 01 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,Lighter at work 28 Jul 05 - 10:35 AM
Jim Dixon 31 Jul 05 - 01:07 AM
Lighter 15 Oct 18 - 02:57 PM
Lighter 15 Oct 18 - 04:06 PM
Lighter 16 Oct 18 - 08:55 AM
Lighter 16 Oct 18 - 09:42 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: SEVEN IRISH MEN
From: paddymac
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 12:48 PM

I've been looking for info on this song, without much luck so far. I couldn't find it in a DT/Forum search, and haven't found any recordings of it. I did find a print version in the Hal Leonard "Celtic Fake Book", where it is listed as traditional, but the arrangement is copyrighted. I don't yet know the name of the air, but it has a great "sean nos" feel about it. The lyrics suggest to me that it fits into 1800's, probably in the US/Mexican - Civil War time frame. The Civil War may be more likely because of the thematic similarity to the draft riots of that time. I'll keep looking, but would greatly appreciate the benefit of any other 'catter's comments.

Seven Irish Men
(traditional)
  

All you that love the shamrock green,
attend both young and old.
I feel it is my duty,
these lines for you to unfold.
Concerning those young emigrants,
who lately sailed away.
To seek a better livelihood
all in Americay.

On the fourteenth day of April,
our noble ship did sail.
With fifty five young Irishmen,
true sons of Grannuaille.
They landed safely in New York,
on the 19th day of May.
To see their friends and relations,
all in Americay.

Now some of them had friends to meet,
as soon as they did land.
With flowing bumpers drank a health,
to dear old Ireland.
And those who had no friends to meet,
their hearts were stout and bold.
And by the cursed Yankees,
they would not be controlled.

Seven of those young Irishmen,
were walking through George's street.
When a Yankee officer,
they happened for to meet.
He promised them employment in,
a brick yard near the town.
And there he did conduct them;
their names were taken down.

He then took them to an ale house,
and called for drinks galore.
I'm sure such entertainment,
they never had before.
And when he thought he had them drunk,
these words to them did say.
You're listed now as a soldier,
to defend Americay.

They looked at one another,
and these words they then did say.
It's not to 'list that we did come,
into Americay.
But to labor for our livelihood,
as we often did before,
And we lately emigrated,
from the lovely Shamrock shore.

Twelve Yankees dressed as soldiers,
came in without delay.
They said "My lads you must prepare,
with us to come away.
You signed with one of our officers,
so you can not now refuse,
So prepare my lads to join our ranks,
for you must pay your dues.

The Irish blood began to rise,
one of those heroes said.
"We have one only life to lose,
therefore we are not afraid.
Although we are from Ireland,
this day we'll let you see,
We'll die like sons of Grannuaille,
to keep our liberty.

The Irish boys got to their feet,
it made the Yankees frown.
As fast as they could strike a blow,
they knocked the soldiers down.
With bloody heads and broken bones,
they left them in crimson gore.
And proved themselves sons of Erin,
throughout Columbus' shore.
Line Breaks <br> added.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:53 PM

The song was printed in Sing Out v.22#1 with Joe Heaney listed as the source, so I suppose there is probably a recording of him singing it. I haven't got Sing Out's that late, so I can't tell you if there are any notes there.

You will also find a version under the title Seven Exiles in The Donagh MacDonagh song collection

You might also try searching the celtic music newsgroups and the Forum (I can't get search to work at the moment, so I don't know if there's anything there).

Mick


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SEVEN EXILES
From: paddymac
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 01:15 AM

Here are the lyrics from the Donagh MacDonagh Song Collection linked to by Guest MCP above. They differ from those posted above, but seem to clearly be another version of the same song, though which came first is not clear. I thought it would be a good idea to put them here as a harvesting aid.

THE SEVEN EXILES

As seven of our Irish boys walked down through George's St.,
One of those damned Yankee dogs they happened for to meet;
He promised them employment in a brickyard near the town,
And then he did enduce them their names for to give down.

He brought them to an alehouse where they got drunk galore,
And such an entertainment as they never got before,
And when he thought he had them drunk, it's this to them said he,
"You're listed now as soldiers to defend you counterie."

They looked at one another, and this to him did say,
"It's not to enlist that we came here all to Amerikay,
But to seek bread and labour as many did before,
That's why we emigrated from the lovely Shamrock Shore."

Twelve Yankees dressed in solder's clothes came in without delay,
They were well armed and well prepared our heroes debt to pay,
Saying, "This is one of our officers who listed you complete,
You need not think for to resist, we will no longer wait."

Their Irish blood began to flow, which made the Yankees frown,
As fast as they could strike a blow they knocked the Yankees down
With bloody head and broken bones they'll mind it evermore
And the sprig of sweet Shillelagh they brought from Erin's shore.

Transcribed July 14, 2000 by T. M. Carlsen Notes from transcriber: Spelling and punctuation as in original


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: paddymac
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 06:52 PM

The first version posted above appears in two of the Hal Leonard books: "The Celtic Fake Book" and "The Folk Song Fake Book". I presume the two are the same, but I've only seen the former. I've also found references to it three Mel Bay books: "Mel bay's All In Americay;" "Mel Bay Presents Songs of Ireland (1991);" and "Mel Bay's Immigrant Song Book (1992)." I've not seen any of the Mel Bay versions, so I don't know if they are all the same or if they are the same as the others noted.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 08:16 AM

The Bodleian has 6 (I think) versions under the title: The glorious victory of the seven Irishmen over the kidnapping Yankees in New-York. A few of them are Here, Here and Here.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 03:47 PM

Joe Heaney's recording was on Philo LP 2004, Joe Heaney. A transcription of that recording is on p. 126 of my book, A Bonnie Bunch of Roses (New York: Oak Publications, 1983), ISBN: 0.8256.0256.4

All the best,
Dan Milner


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 04:09 PM

The song is almost certainly from the time of the U.S. Civil War. The Mexican-American War was over almost before it started for one thing and the Civil War consumed vast quantities of human flesh so that bounties were paid to immigrants to enlist in the Civil War, for another.

25% of the combatants in the Civil War were born outside the U.S. and some 250,000 (the actual number will never be known) were Irish-born. One very readable book on the Irish in the Civil War is Paul Jones, The Irish Brigade (Wasington-New York: Robert B. Luce, 1969). There are others. I put 2 songs of the Irish in the U.S. Civil War and 1 song of the Irish in the Revolutionary War on the Folk-Legacy CD, "Irish in America: a Musical Record of the Irish People in the United States, 1780 - 1980." If the topic is of great interest to you, you might want to get a copy from Folk-Legacy. You can read more about the CD at... http://mywebpage.netscape.com/milnerconroy/irishinamerica.htm

All the best,
Dan Milner


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:35 AM

Dick Cameron recorded the song for Folkways around 1960 on his album of Irish Folksongs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 31 Jul 05 - 01:07 AM

The song that Dick Cameron sang was called THE SEVEN IRISH BOYS. It's on "Irish Folk Songs and Ballads," Folkways Records #FW03516, 1961.

I listened to a sound sample, and the lyrics seem identical to the ones posted by Paddymac above, where he calls it THE SEVEN EXILES.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 02:57 PM

Dick Cameron, on his Folkways album of "Irish Songs and Ballads" (1961), utilizes the tune of "Dear Old Donegal" (see that current thread) for a more concise and somewhat different version of the song he calls "The Seven Irish Boys."

Joe Heaney sings the version he learned from his father - the only other original version I can find - here:

https://www.joeheaney.org/en/seven-irishmen-the/

Heaney's tune is unrelated to "Dear Old Donegal." Where Cameron got his own text and tune, I don't know.

The group Aengus recorded the song to a third tune in 1978:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC4Pdg1A24c


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: interp of 'seven Irishmen'
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 04:06 PM

The verbose broadside original, from the National Library of Scotland:

https://deriv.nls.uk/dcn23/7489/74891286.23.pdf

A Bodleian text, from an unnamed printer, shares space with "An elegy, on the death of the much lamented very rev. D. W. Cahill, D. D."

The web page gives Cahill's dates as "1796-1864."

That dates Heaney's "Seven Irishmen" most plausibly to the American Civil War and the N.Y.C. Draft Riots of 1863 - though the song isn't about the Draft. Instead it's about a kind of recruiting fraud that would have been unconstitutional in the United States.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Seven Irish Men
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 08:55 AM

Aengus's tune is different again. Don't know where it came from, but it sounds familiar.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Seven Irish Men
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 09:42 AM

There was a "George's Street" in New York as late as 1815, but I can't find any indication that it retained the name for very long.

There was and is a George's Street in Dublin, however, and elsewhere. This strongly suggests that the broadside was written locally, with a plausible street name chosen to fit the meter.


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