BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 04:42 PM

Saurday morning cinema was dead and gone by the time I was old enough to go, but Manitas remembers it.... I think I went to the pictures about 4 times between the age of 4 and 14.... I remember seeing Mary Poppins, the first film I ever saw in a cinema, and then my next memory is of Grease in 1978...... although I may have seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as well.....

Phoebe has been to the cinema more times in her life than I had by the time I was 18!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 08:51 AM

Haven't seen HP yet, want to wait till the cinema isn't full of kids (miserable old git)! I surprised myself by enjoying the books despite the hype.
Thinking back to my own childhood, I don't remember "kids flicks" apart from Saturday morning pictures. I seemed to watch mostly Tarzan and westerns with my parents.
I can picture my mother at the bus stop trying to pretend she wasn't with us as Dad and I hid in shop doorways re-enacting the film by pointing our fingers at each other and making shooting noises"
RtS (the world was in black and white then, of course!)

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 08:49 AM

The thing about most of those films is that very few kids are ever likely to have the chance to see them anyway - not as films. And nor are the rest of us.

Seing a video on a little screen is a completely different and far less involving thing than seeing a film in a cinema. It's almost like the difference between watching a travelogue and actually visiting a place.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Grab
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 08:38 AM

Glad someone got Ghostbusters in there!

In addition to the many already covered, I'd nominate:-

Muppets in Space
Waking Ned
The Crimson Pirate

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 08:47 PM

The Marx Brothers! I wish they would show their movies on TV again! Now you've inspired me to make the trek to the videostore! I just realized that my kids have never watched them! What kind of parent have I been????

I did try to get them to watch Laurel and Hardy. I remember every Thanksgiving I HAD to watch March of the Wooden Soldiers. I bought the VHS and they walked out of the room after 10 minutes!

Kids today!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 08:37 PM

Oh and Ron, don't worry about calling me LL--I've been called much worse!

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST,Lascivious Librarian
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 08:34 PM

Not to worry there, Ron--no offense taken.

Did I mention Ghostbusters and the Marx Brothers movies? My kids LOVED the Marx Brothers. But thought the Three Stooges were mean. I also remember one of our 5 year old neighbor kids thought Ernie was mean to Bert, so there ya go!

And today at the library I did have a 10th grader inform me she HATED Nightmare Before Christmas. And then 3 kids came up to the desk to leap into the fray saying they loved it, and thought it was a pretty sweet film.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 08:15 PM

Or rather, he put it very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 08:14 PM

I think Harry Champion put it best.

I like pickled onions,
I like piccalilli.
Pickled cabbage is alright
With a bit of cold meat on Sunday night.
I can go termartoes,
But what I do prefer,
Is a little bit of cu-cum-cu-cum-cu-cum,
Little bit of cucumber.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 07:23 PM

Sorry LL (may I call you LL?), I guess I'm not making my point. Let me make one more attempt -

There is nothing wrong with liking one thing more than another. I'd rather have cauliflower than broccoli. However I wouldn't start a list saying "things that are better than broccoli". Perhaps, "things I like better than broccoli" might be more positive to all the hard working vegetables out there.

Personally I would rather have a pepperoni slice instead.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, I just thought that the title of this thread seemed rather negative and not in the spirit of the subject. I'm sure it wasn't your intention and I apologize if I took offense where none was meant.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 06:12 PM

Well...LTS....you must then be a wizened old lady of about 35......at least ...BG...

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST,Lascivious Librarian
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 06:07 PM

To like one thing better than another is negative?

I dunna think so.

More to add to the list for the season (in addition to the Muppet movies already listed): Muppet's Christmas Carol, and of course, that classic The Christmas Story.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 05:54 PM

Strange that I have videos of almost all the films mentioned here.....

And even stranger that Sean Connery started acting with Disney.... bet he was miffed when he got the role of Bond, what with Mr Disney being so clean living and all....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 05:35 PM

Lady Hawke but probably for older kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 05:20 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing Harry Potter. The books are a lot of fun (but certainly not the only fantasy or sword and sorcery I read) and it looks like a wonderful cast.

I hated the animation of "The Lord of the Rings." Too simplistic (soul-less, like so much modern animation) and it didn't look like what I visualized reading the books.

The best version of "The Secret Garden" was the original 1949 version -- also love the technique of going from b&w to color for effect.

"Labyrinth", "Princess Bride", "Time Bandits" -- I loved them all. And the "Wallace & Gromit" shorts are great fun.

Another personal favorite is "Darby O'Gill and the Little People" -- schlocky Disney "Oirish" perhaps (and I adored it at age 9), but the young Sean Connery certainly is a delight to look at and listen too. (Come to think of it, Sean Connery at ANY age is a delight to look at! -- oooo, but especially "Marnie" and "The Man Who Would Be King"!!!)

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 03:46 PM

Hmmm... to me "better than" seems to hint that something is wrong with the original. That certainly starts off on a negative foot.

I guess I'm from the belief that everything has a place and you shouldn't compare apples and oranges. Each film is different and has a place. "Better" is so subjective.

Why not start the thread "What other films SIMILAR to Harry Potter would you recommend?"

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 02:21 PM

"BS: Even Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter?"

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST,Lascivious Librarian
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 01:34 PM

Are some here arguing the glass is half empty, and others that it is half full?

I began this thread wondering what people here might consider to be a better film than HP, to see what came up. Our family happened to like the film a lot, but we didn't love it the way we did the ones I mentioned.

To wonder what might be "better than" is not a negative perception, in my view.

So a Bronx salute to you too.

I would like to add to the list one I forgot that we (meaning my family) loved: The Button Wars.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 12:24 PM

Precisely. I can't understand why people so often seem to think that in order to praise one thing or person it is necessary to disparage other things or people. Time and time again it comes up around songs and singers. It's not quite the same as trying to work out some kind of order of merit, it's a sort of assumption that if this is good, that must be bad. Marmite and Vegemite for example

It's not unrelated to that other attitude you get where people react to some kind of criticism by pointing to the failings of some third party. "How dare you say that X is less than perfect. Just look at Y..." with X and Y being, for example America, or broccoli.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned "The Railway Children" in this thread.

And there's another film that I'm not surprised hasn't been mentioned, because it never got the hype - but it's great little film."A Swarm in May" And it's actually got quite a lot in common with Harry Potter, since it's set in a boarding school for children with an unusual talent, in this case for music, and a boy who has to do something he's scared to do but that needs doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 09:38 AM

Guest,

No, I am suggesting exactly the opposite - people should have their own taste in films. Expressing opinions about Harry Potter is fine, but critique it on it's own merits - not against something that is unrelated. I've read very few notes with actual critiques in it.

Why is it necessary to call this thread "BETTER films than Harry Potter".... why not something like "If you liked this film you would probably love.... " ? It isn't necessary to start a critique based on a negative. I'm not crazy about the hype, and I am not overly impressed with the book. However, that doesn't mean this film (or any film) shouldn't stand on it's own merits.

Please re-read my original note. I am not sure why you made the assumptions you did.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 07:07 AM

Ron,

Are you suggesting we all must share your tastes in film? You seem to have an expectation that everyone who has read HP or seen the film shouldn't express their opinions if they didn't like it. Why is that? Are you hoping we all fall in lockstep behind a bloated, over hyped commercial product (as opposed to an excellent film), which IS the way some view the HP "phenomenon"?

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Helen
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 05:03 AM

Liz-t-s,

I was making a comment about Fantasia based on the fact that I went to see it when it first came out decades ago (no home videos then, and no evening screenings of kids' movies), during school time with a theatre jam-packed full of wriggling, squirming kids who were talking all the way through it, crunching chip packets, and generally being pains in the arse. I imagine that some of the kids in the audience would have been entranced, and some others *could* have been if it weren't for the distractions of peer pressure and peer shenanigans.

Based on watching kids reactions, I should have mentioned Charlotte's Web, which I saw with 2 babysitt-ees at the cinema.

I've never, never, never believed in pushing adult preferences on kids. As a matter of fact, I never really took to Roald Dahl until I saw Matilda, & Witches. Before that I used to think he was pretty horrible, but I always kept up the supply in anticipation of constant demand. It wasn't me who needed to be satisfied. In fact, there was a big picture book of his poems which I never even read until a folkie friend of mine recited a couple of them at the folk club and I thought that they were a scream.

I kept up a reasonable supply of schmaltz, too, but it really wasn't in such high demand as the funny-weird-nasty stuff. Schmaltz is insidious, IMHO, and poisons the brain far more than the stuff which provides an opportunity to examine the scary things in life.

By the way, I haven't seen HP yet, either, so I wasn't comparing any of my choices to that.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Mudlark
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 03:23 AM

Out of the West was good, Babe, Beeltejuice (sp?), Roan Innish, like all John Sayles movies, terrific. Not comparing with HP, which i've not seen, just movies I've liked as have the kids I've seen them with.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 02:07 AM

HA!! As if anyone could do anything better than Michaelangelo.... and he was left handed!

A British newspaper recently published a list of reasons why HP is just LOTR in a different wrapping. Wish I'd kept a copy, but there were about 30 similarities/suspicious coincidences.....

Amergin - your film list, if it really was as a child you saw them - puts you at about 6-8 years younger than me! I was still being forcefed the 'children are nice and innocent and like fluffy bunnies and horses' themes. I just wanted to rip their heads off and spent much of my formative years (10 - 14) watching Hammer House of Horror stuff.

Explains a lot, really!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 12:01 AM

Why is it that when a movie, book, or CD come there is always someone ready with a list of productions that are supposedly "better"? Can't people let others enjoy a movie like Harry Potter and let it go? I guess it is just human nature to knock the success of other's.

I'm sure someone said to Michaelangelo- "Sure this Sistine Chapel is nice, but you should get a look at the cathedral down the block."

There is nothing wrong with enjoying a number of films. People have listed some great films here. Enjoy them all!!

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: MAG
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 11:42 PM

When I saw it Friday, it kept a sold out house of laregly very small children spellbound the whole two hours, which, as Liz said, is a bloody miracle. Go see it. It's worth it. And that is from someone who thinks competition is pushed too much on the young.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 10:09 PM

I'll let you now after I've seen Harry.

But I can suspend disbelief so easily that as long as a show isn't insulting I can find many things worthy if not down right redeeming.

My kids loved

Watership Down

Any of the Secret Gardens

Shirley Temple's Little Princess

The Never ending Story

And because I was assured of my kids maturity they also watched stuff that was aimed at older kids.

Sargent York,

Splash

The 1936 version of The last of the Mohicans

Christmas Carol (Geo. C Scott)

And countless others. \my personal favorite kids movie?

Pinocchio, it was also my parents first date.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 09:20 PM

I don't see how anyone could class Bakshi's Lord Of The Rings movie as "good"...that movie has a better place in a rubbish bin instead of on the shelves....

my favourites as a child were:

Secret of Roan Innish

Time Bandits

Secret of Nimh

Ice Pirates

The Muppet Movie

The Great Muppet Caper

The Dark Crystal

Flash Gordon

Willy Wonka

and several others....

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 09:05 PM

When young 60 years ago, I loved Song Of The South. I do understand that it contained racial stereotypes but who knew about that back then? Not me for sure. But the scene at the end where the bull goes after the boy gave me nightmares for weeks.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 08:52 PM

Celtic Soul

Tim Burton is great for older kids and teens, not for the little ones.

I suppose there are kids who don't like "Nightmare..." but none I've ever spoken to.

The thing about imposing our tastes on the kids isn't as much a concern to me as is the peer pressure, which is incredibly intense with HP. It is almost like "You HAVE to love this movie/these books." The parental zeal which has accompanied that, to get their kids to read, has been pretty intense too. I work in a book store, and I've seen parents pushing the books on kids who clearly weren't interested, claiming "but all the kids are reading it..."

Usually the same parents who insist on the Disney "happy endings" versions of fairy tales, rather than the real thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 03:17 PM

Blasphemy! ;D

I will admit though, that the list is a good one...but I can't see all Tim Burton films as good for kids. He's darker still than JK (thus far).

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Hollowfox
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 03:08 PM

Helen, when I applied to library school, I told the assistant dean that two ex-librarians had recommended this ass a career to me. She promptly and strongly replied, "There *are* no ex-librarians!" *g*
I saw HP Friday night and enjoyed it, but I think the wine will have to age in the bottle a few years before we can honestly judge whether it is "timeless". Since I'd read (and enjoyed) the series before seeing the film, I can't say how good or bad it is for those who don't know the story already. Those who go to any film expecting it to be just as good as the book are doomed to disappointment. Things had to be streamlined, or the movie would have lasted more than eight hours (the length of the unabridged book on casette). That said, I think it was as well done as it could have been. The visual effects are as good as can be done at this time, and some of the characters look better than the way I'd imagined them (e.g. Madame Hooch). Still, I wish that it had been a bit longer..I felt a bit like I'd been to a wonderful, elaborate meal and had to rush through it instead of savoring it.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 02:47 PM

Naah. Some of those are OK films, and there are a few more I'd class with them. But they aren't near Harry Potter, which is brilliant.

I say that on the basis of seeing on Friday. I suspect that if you took children of the Harry Potter generation and showed them all those films, the margin by which Harry Potter would win would be even wider.

Fortunately there weren't any children in the audience to spoil our enjoyment when me and a few other grumpy old sods went to see the film. Can't stand the creatures en masse.

If we were ranking books, it'd be a different matter. But good films often come from books that are a little short of first rank, just like really great poems tend not to make the greatest songs. (The Salley Gardens isn't by a long chalk top level Yeats for example, and top level Yeats doesn't make good songs.)

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 01:23 PM

I agree pretty much with JP's list....I love Shrek!

AND ALI.........What the hell kinda' miracle happened on 54th Street? I guess someone pulled off anothere miracle 20 blocks away or something huh? It must be one of those deals like where that other woman showed up in Genesis.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:31 AM

Besides - are we not in danger here of forcing our own opinions upon our children? Are we not reminiscing about our own childhoods? Half the films mentioned are adaptations of books that were around when I was 5-10, some like Madeline and the Borrowers, even longer. Just because I like one thing, it doesn't stand to reason that my daughter will. I like Sean Connery and motorbikes, she likes Barbie and the Tweenies, two things I cannot stand. We're all individuals and if one expresses an interest in one thing, it doesn't mean they should forcefeed it to another.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:26 AM

I disagree. Bratling is 5 and she loved Fantasia, so much so she voluntarily put the Fantasia II on (which isn't as good but she liked it....).

She loves Shrek, and Tim Burton's Nightmare before Christmas, which I thought was going to be too scary for her, but she actually liked it and had more bad dreams about ET.

It would be interesting to note who amongst us recommending Kids films actually goes to the cinema with the kids to watch them. Harry Potter (saw it yesterday) was brilliant - for pedants, it's very close to the book, although some things have to be condensed, For parents, there are a lot of things going on that will go over the heads of children who are only interested in the main action. Keep watching the walls.... that's all I can say... The special effects are great and there are so many well known actors and actresses in it that gel so well together, that you keep looking out for who's next. For kids - it's very like the book, it's funny, Harry is cute and the girl isn't the token bimbo (although she is going the way of the token know it all - pity no-one can hit the middle mark....) and it isn't overly American. It kept Phoebe entranced for nearly an hour - and that is a bloody miracle! Even then, regardless of her being a fidget, she stayed watching the film, despite it being over 2 hours, and talked about it quite intelligently on the way to Pizza Hut. I defy most grown-ups to talk intelligently about a film they have just seen 20 minutes afterwards!

LTS

And the Secret Garden film that came out a few years ago was shite!

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Robin2
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:59 PM

Willy Wonka (my kids watched it and Princess Bride over and over)

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: AliUK
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:47 PM

I always wish that they had done a film of stig of the dump. Jackanory had a good one, and I think there was a TV series, I always wanted to be Stig *sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Cobble
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:18 PM

Helen, get of real issues, this is exactlly why kids are not given a real childhood. Leave them to see and enjoy the film as they will, there is too much interferance by too many people in kids lives. No wonder so many have hang up when they get older. Thank God I did'nt have people like that round me when I was younger.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Justa Picker
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:09 PM

Some that my kids and their parents really liked:

- Shrek
- Monsters Inc.
- The Emperors New Groove
- Chicken Run
- Toy Story 1 and 2
- James and The Giant Peach

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: Helen
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 06:48 PM

Ex-librarian's recommendations:

Note: I prefer fantasy stories, or fantastic ones, but I also like ones which deal with real issues in a non-schmaltzy way. And I like anything with really wacky humour or humour which appeals to parents without being obvious to the kids. I used to love watching Basil Brush (British tv show about 30 years ago) for that reason. The double entendres in that show were a scream.

My list:
The Secret Garden - there is one film of it which was released a few years ago which is pretty ordinary - even down to the plastic flowers in the secret garden - yuck! but I think the most recent one is better - or the much older live acting version, not the animated one. This was one of my favourite stories as a kid & young adult
My other favourite story was Seven Little Australians and the tv show of that was pretty good
The Dark Crystal
Labyrinth
Legend
Matilda; Witches, etc (Roald Dahl - kids love him, but parents get a bit wary)
Drop Dead Fred (although some people might think it's not really a kid's movie)
Who Framed Roger Rabbit (maybe not for kids - that Jessica Rabbit is pretty hot stuff, and I hate the scene where the Toon is being held over the barrel of sludge and then dropped in it, and I hate the villain's horrible laugh)
Wizard of Oz (original real life version, not the crappy cartoon version(s))
Any original Bugs Bunny or Merry Melodies or Looney Toons
A Bug's Life
Antz
Fantasia (for older kids - some little kids don't seem to get it, unless they are musical/visual or both)
Toy Story

Nick Park's stuff: Wallace & Gromit - all of them
Chicken Run
I've hear that Madeline is very good

Ex-librarian's 'stay-away froms':

The Borrowers (grrrrr!!!!) read the books instead - they're brilliant

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: AliUK
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 06:31 PM

The Little Princess, both versions. A Miracle on 54th Street, the old non-colorised version. E.T ( still one of Spielbergs best). This is a small sampling of kids movies ( though they are for big kids too) that I recommend. I havent seen H.P. yet so I can not say that they are better than it.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 03:58 PM

Well, LL, I disagree with much of your list (Bakshi??? Really???? Why?????), but would add
Secret of Roan Inish
The Red Balloon
Hook

Not as being better than, but in a league with Harry P.

Subject: RE: BS: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 02:26 PM

Well I'm not sure I'd rank Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings as precisely a kid's movie, but as I think its crap anyway. Most of these others I haven't seen and I haven't seen Harry Potter yet either.

I do like Princess Bride. Which production of The Secret Garden do you mean? There seem to be two out.

You might like A Fairytale about the two girls who took pictures of fairies in England at the turn of the last century.

Subject: Better Kid Flicks than Harry Potter
From: GUEST,Lascivious Librarian
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 02:01 PM

Here was the list we came up with after seeing Harry Potter, that we thought were much better movies:

The Secret Garden
Secret of Nimh
Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings movie
Willow
Princess Bride
All the Tim Burton films, but Sleepy Hollow especially (mom lusting after Johnny Depp)

Anyway, not much on the Disney or even Touchstone scale of "family films"! We always like to get more referrals, so what are other people's faves?