Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


'Secular' Holiday Songs

Paul G. 19 Nov 01 - 09:58 PM
53 19 Nov 01 - 10:13 PM
Gypsy 19 Nov 01 - 10:27 PM
Paul G. 19 Nov 01 - 11:11 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 19 Nov 01 - 11:48 PM
Kaleea 20 Nov 01 - 12:45 AM
The_one_and_only_Dai 20 Nov 01 - 04:59 AM
Gervase 20 Nov 01 - 05:37 AM
Gervase 20 Nov 01 - 05:40 AM
GUEST,D_hand 20 Nov 01 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,PoohBear 20 Nov 01 - 11:35 PM
Barbara Shaw 21 Nov 01 - 08:24 AM
Mary in Kentucky 21 Nov 01 - 09:42 AM
SharonA 21 Nov 01 - 10:56 AM
SharonA 21 Nov 01 - 11:00 AM
SharonA 21 Nov 01 - 11:08 AM
SharonA 21 Nov 01 - 11:52 AM
SharonA 21 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM
CarolC 22 Nov 01 - 10:29 AM
Mudlark 23 Nov 01 - 02:29 AM
Paul G. 26 Nov 01 - 10:19 PM
ddw 27 Nov 01 - 12:40 AM
Murray MacLeod 27 Nov 01 - 01:15 AM
Rolfyboy6 27 Nov 01 - 01:22 AM
dick greenhaus 27 Nov 01 - 11:03 PM
Blackcatter 28 Nov 01 - 01:59 AM
Mrrzy 28 Nov 01 - 02:13 PM
mousethief 28 Nov 01 - 02:58 PM
Blackcatter 28 Nov 01 - 04:08 PM
SharonA 28 Nov 01 - 05:29 PM
Paul G. 28 Nov 01 - 06:28 PM
SharonA 28 Nov 01 - 06:50 PM
Willa 28 Nov 01 - 07:08 PM
Paul G. 28 Nov 01 - 10:18 PM
ddw 28 Nov 01 - 11:21 PM
Peg 29 Nov 01 - 12:04 AM
Blackcatter 29 Nov 01 - 03:55 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 29 Nov 01 - 04:52 AM
Sonnet 29 Nov 01 - 05:46 AM
SharonA 29 Nov 01 - 09:41 AM
Blackcatter 29 Nov 01 - 11:58 AM
mousethief 29 Nov 01 - 12:12 PM
MMario 29 Nov 01 - 12:33 PM
mousethief 29 Nov 01 - 03:50 PM
Genie 04 Dec 01 - 08:44 PM
Paul G. 06 Dec 01 - 08:47 PM
Kaleea 07 Dec 01 - 01:58 AM
GUEST,Philippa 13 Dec 01 - 10:49 AM
Mrrzy 13 Dec 01 - 11:18 AM
Wolfgang 14 Dec 01 - 09:06 AM
Mrrzy 14 Dec 01 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,Jay Mankita 14 Dec 10 - 05:11 PM
Folkiedave 14 Dec 10 - 05:16 PM
Reinhard 14 Dec 10 - 05:46 PM
Genie 14 Dec 10 - 06:30 PM
Genie 14 Dec 10 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,Curtis 14 Dec 10 - 11:09 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Paul G.
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 09:58 PM

I've been asked to put together a program of non-religious holiday songs, and have been scratching my head about it. There's "The Christmas Song" (Chestnuts roasting...), "Sleigh Ride", "Jingle Bells"...and that's about where I run out. So help me out here and let's start the Mudcat Totally Inoffensive Secular Holiday Season Song List....

Thanks!

Paul


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: 53
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 10:13 PM

run run rudolph, by chuckberry, grandma got ran over by a reindeer,i don't know who sang this one and ther's one about alvin and the chipmunks,headed by david seville, if i think of anymore i'll post them. bob


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Gypsy
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 10:27 PM

Carol of the Bells, Blue Christmas, A caroling we will go, Deck the Hall, Frosty, Fum Fum Fum, Hard Candy Christmas, Happy Holidays, Holly Jolly Christmas, I'll be Home for Christmas, Its beginning to look a lot like Christmas, Marshmallow world, Nuttin' for Christmas, Pretty Paper, Rudolph, Santa Baby, Silver and Gold, Tennessee Christmas, Toyland, You're all I want for Christmas......need i continue?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Paul G.
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 11:11 PM

Okay -- that's a start, but I'd prefer to stay away from the comedic (Grandma Got Run Over, etc), and Rock tunes. Guess I should have been more explicit at the outset. I'm looking for "pretty" favorable to guitar accompanyment...pg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 11:48 PM

hot buttered rum...great song..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 12:45 AM

Silver Bells is my fav secular song. There's also: Jolly Old St. Nicholas Up on the Housetop Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy (a piece, not a song) The Holly & the Ivy The Hawaiian Christmas Song Home for the Holidays Christmas Chopsticks I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus Santa Claus is Comin' to Town Twas the Night Before Christmas There's No Place Like Home for the Holidays Christmas on the Moon The Twelve Days of Christmas Good King Wenceslas Patapan Over the River & Through the Woods All I Want for Christmas is My Two Front Teeth Christmas in Killarney I Don't Want A Lot for Christmas We Wish You A Merry Christmas Oh Tannenbaum (O Christmas Tree) Wassail, Wassail Here We Come A Wassailing The Boar's Head Carol Winter Wonderland White Christmas (highly watchguarded by ASCAP & the Irving Berlin family! As are most of the secular Christmas songs.) And don't forget my other fav, Mele Kalikimaka is the thing to say, On a bright Hawaiian Christmas Day, That's the Island greeting that we send to you, from the land where palm trees sway. Here we know that Christmas will be green & bright, the sun will shine by day and all the stars at night. Mele Kalikimaka is Hawaii's way to say "Merry Christmas" to you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 04:59 AM

Kaleea, you can't get less secular than the Boar's Head... check the meaning of the ecclesiastical Latin lines..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 05:37 AM

There's also the Copper family's lovely Christmas song, here.
Scowie's From: Gervase
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 05:40 AM

Bugger! Fair furtled that one up I'm afraid...
What I meant to say was that Scowie's When All Men Sing is also a good seasonal song, with nary a mention of Christmas.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: GUEST,D_hand
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 06:40 AM

'Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: GUEST,PoohBear
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 11:35 PM

I know you said "pretty" as opposed to "humerous" but no secular Christmas selection is complete without "Deck us all with Boston Charlie". . .PB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 08:24 AM

Christmas Time's a-Comin'
Christmas in Killarney
Hey Ho, Nobody Home
Jingle Bell Rock
Silver Bells
Winter Wonderland


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 09:42 AM

So far we have:

A Caroling We Will Go
All I Want for Christmas is My Two Front Teeth
Blue Christmas
The Boar's Head Carol
Carol of the Bells
Caroling, Caroling
The Chipmunk Song
Christmas Chopsticks
Christmas in Killarney
Christmas in the Caribbean
Christmas Island
Christmas on the Moon
The Christmas Song
Christmas Time's a Comin'
Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies
Deck the Halls
Feliz Navidad
Frosty the Snowman
Fum, Fum, Fum
Good King Wenceslas
Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer
Hard Candy Christmas
Happy Holidays
Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas
Hey Ho, Nobody Home
I Don't Want a Lot for Christmas
The Hawaiian Christmas Song
Here We Come a Wassailing
The Holly and the Ivy
Holly, Jolly Christmas
Home For the Holidays
Hot Buttered Rum
I'll Be Home For Christmas
I Saw Monny Kissing Santa Claus
It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas
It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
Jingle Bells
Jingle Bell Rock
Jolly Old St. Nicholas
Let it Snow
Marshmallow World
Mele Kalikimaka
Nuttin' For Christmas
O Tannenbaum (O Christmas Tree)
Over the River and Through the Woods
Pat a Pan
Pretty Paper
Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer
Run Run Rudolph
Santa Baby
Santa Claus is Comin' to Town
Silver Bells
Silver and Gold
Sleigh Ride
So This is Christmas
Tennessee Christmas
There's No Place Like Home for the Holidays
Toyland
Twas the Night Before Christmas
The Twelve Days of Christmas
Up on the Housetop
You're All I Want for Christmas
Wassail, Wassail
We Need a Little Christmas
We Wish You a Merry Christmas
When All Men Sing
White Christmas
Winter Wonderland

****I added:
Caroling, Caroling
Feliz Navidad
Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas
It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
We Need a Little Christmas
So This is Christmas
Christmas in the Caribbean (Jimmy Buffet)
Christmas Island (also Jimmy Buffet)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 10:56 AM

The Christmas Waltz ("...and this song of mine, in three-quarter time, wishes you and yours the same thing too")


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:00 AM

It's the Holiday Season ("...so hoop-de-do and dickory-dock, and don't forget to hang up your sock, 'cause just exactly at twelve o'clock, he'll be comin' down the chimney, down")


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:08 AM

The Little Boy that Santa Claus Forgot


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:52 AM

Christmas Back in My Home Town
Parade of the Toy Soldiers (title? March of the Wooden Soldiers?)
Please Come Home for Christmas (by The Eagles)
Christmas in Dixie (by Alabama)
Merry Christmas Darling (by The Carpenters)
Here Comes Santa Claus ("right down Santa Claus Lane")
A Wonderful Christmastime (by Paul McCartney)

and just in case you change your mind about the rock tunes and the comedy...
Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree
Snoopy's Christmas
A Christmas Carol (by Tom Lehrer)
'Zat You, Santa Claus? (as sung by Louis Armstrong) (one of my personal favorites!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM

Okay, I took a look at some of my Christmas cassette tapes. Here are more:

The Bell That Couldn't Jingle
All I Want for Christmas is You
Santa, Baby (as sung by Eartha Kitt)
Auld Lang Syne

...as well as some less-specific-to-Christmas songs:

The Marvelous Toy
My Favorite Things
Baby, It's Cold Outside


Also, I'm trying to remember a song that includes the lyrics: "Little (something something), little (something something), little toy trains comin' round the track..." Does this ring a bell for anyone?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 10:29 AM

Here's one of my favorites...

"O LUTEFISK"

[May be sung to the tune of 'O Tannunbaum]

Lutefisk... 0 Lutefisk... how fragrant your aroma
0 Lutefisk... 0 Lutefisk... You put me, in a coma
You smell so strong... You look like glue
You taste yust like an overshoe
Put Lutefisk ... come Saturday
I tink I'll eat you anyway.

Lutefisk ... 0 Lutefisk ... I put you by the doorway
I vanted you to ripen up ... yust like dey do in Norway
A dog came by and sprinkled you ... I hit him vit my overshoe
0 Lutefisk ... now I suppose
I'll eat you as I hold my nose.

Lutefisk ... 0 Lutefisk ... how well I do remember
On Christmas Eve how we'd receive ... our big treat of December
It vasn't turkey or fried ham ... it vasn't even pickled spam
My mudder knew dere vas no risk ...
In serving buttered lutefisk.

Lutefisk ... 0 Lutefisk ... now everyone discovers
Dat Lutefisk and lefse makes-Norweigians better lovers
Now all da vorld can have a ball ... you're better dan dat Yeritol
0 Lutefisk ... vit brennevin
You make me feel like Errol Flynn.

Lutefisk ... O lutefisk ... You have a special flavor
Lutefisk ... O lutefisk ... All good Norwegians savor.
That slimy slab we know so well ... Identified by ghastky smell
Lutefisk ... O lutefisk ... Our loyalty won't waver.

There is a version of this in the DT, with a midi for the tune. I think it's under "Lutefisk O Lutefisk"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Mudlark
Date: 23 Nov 01 - 02:29 AM

I don't like most of the secular pop songs about Christmas, but 2 from the 2nd World War have pretty melodies and are very touching: I'll be Home for Christmas and Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas. The line from the second one: "Soon we all will be together, if the fates allow....and if not we'll have to muddle through somehow" always chokes me up.

There's also a nifty song on a Redbone album about Christmas on Christmas Island...sounds good when HE sings it anyway..,


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Paul G.
Date: 26 Nov 01 - 10:19 PM

Wow -- thanks everybody -- some great tunes that I had forgotten. I'm working on an arrangement the Lutefisk song or our next CD ;-).

Hope y'all had a Thanksgiving that was as wonderful as ours.

Paul


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: ddw
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 12:40 AM

There's also a Ray Stevens tune called "Santa Claus is Watchin' You" and Chuck Berry does a another Xmas tune tune besides Run Run Rudolph, but the name escapes me at the moment. I'll check and post it tomorrow.

david


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 01:15 AM

If you are tired of singing "Winter Wonderland, you might lik to try this variation

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 01:22 AM

And from blues and soul: Charles Brown's "Merry Christmas Baby". And if you do a gig less pretty and more get-down, Clarence Carter's all time great, "Backdoor Santa".

"Chipmunks roasting on an open fire....."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 11:03 PM

Good God! Back in the 50s, this kind of thing got so bad that college types were wishing each other a "Merry Non-sectarian Mid-Year Recess". And I though we had outgrown this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:59 AM

Not that it's a big deal but...

Since when are songs that talk ablout Christmas secular? Do you think the many Jewish, Buddhist, etc family gather on December 25 and sing "I'll be Home For Christmas"?

Also, Deck the Halls and a few others come from the days of the religious celebration of the Winter Solstice - not terribly secular either.

If some of those mentioned above are secular - so is Dreidl, Dreidl, Dreidl.

Please understand that I don't really care, I just wanted to let you know that if you live in a Christian-oriented country, it is easy to forget there are people who are not Christian and have no interest in even "secular" Christmas songs. I've had to sit through countless company holiday parties where a chorus or band sticks to secular Christmas songs - and all it does is remind me that my religious views are not particularly respected by the majority.

I like the winter songs though :-)

pax yall


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 02:13 PM

Y'all seem to be seriously offbase here. Nothing about Christmas can be, by definition, secular. If you want ACTUALLY secular songs that are performed in midwinter, which it sounds as if you do, try Winter Wonderland. I don't know all the words to Chestnuts Roasting, that might pass muster also. Anything with Santa Claus in it is about Christmas which is religious, and in particular Christian, whether you want it to be or not. Aren't there any good SOLSTICE songs? Now that would be secular. The earth revolves in reality, not in religion.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: mousethief
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 02:58 PM

Exactly how does "Carol of the Bells" get into the secular category?

Ring Christmas bells, merrily ring
Tell all the world Jesus is King

is hardly something Aldous Huxley would say...

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:08 PM

Hi all

Chestnuts Roasting - talks about Santa.

And while Winter Wonderland doesn't talk about Christmas - it does metnion a Parson Brown - Christian oriented, obviously, At least, my Jewish friends and my Pagan friends when they get married will not use a parson.

Jingle Bells works as far as I can see.

On the other hand, I do love many of the songs, including the Jesus birth songs because I love music and many of them are good music. The only thing I object to is that so many people in my culture cannot understand that I am not Christian and do not look at the holiday season the way they do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:29 PM

Okay, I'll bite, Blackcatter: How do you look at the holiday season? You've explained your religious views today on the "Where is God?" thread, yet you've joined the Mudcat Secret Santa program (and Santa is derived from the story of St. Nicholas... "Christian oriented, obviously"!) But you don't want to hear songs about Santa. And Solstice songs are right out. So aside from getting the day off from work and playing Celtic music with friends, and listening to winter songs, is there anything else about the holiday season that interests you?

When I weaned myself away from the fundamentalist-Christian church, I had some trouble reconciling the question of what to do about Christmas. I decided to concentrate on the message of hope for peace in the world, and "allow" in my mind that the Christmas story is a metaphor for that. So I feel minimal discomfort singing the carols I was raised with, and I have a lot of tapes of instrumental Christmas songs so I can enjoy the music without the message. I still won't sing Easter hymns, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Paul G.
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:28 PM

Okay y'all...first, I asked for secular "holiday" songs. A fine line to be sure, but non the less..second, the reason is that this is what the "paying" host of the gig has requested, not a personal preference. Now that that's cleared up, I do think this is an interesting discussion. Religious/spiritual inspiration has been the source of much of our finest music. Heck, for me all music is spirtual and every performance (even of secular songs) a prayer.

p.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:50 PM

Paul says: "for me all music is spiritual and every performance (even of secular songs) a prayer."

Oh. Guess that's why you rejected "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer" from the list here, huh? ;^)

BTW, "holiday" is synonymous with "vacation" to some of these 'Catters! So how about "On the Way to Cape May"?

Sharon (ducking)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Willa
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:08 PM

December
I'm Walking in the Air
Past Three O'clock (Young maidens are sleeping)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Paul G.
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:18 PM

Sharon:

I'm going on holiday for the holidays, traveling by sleigh, pulled by the reindeer that ran over poor old granny. I intend to pray for them, in a secular way, using an appropriately pious (and pretty) arrangement of the lutefisk song...

pg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: ddw
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:21 PM

The other Chuck Berry song I was thinking of is "Merry Christmas, Baby." I think somebody already mentioned it.

david


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Peg
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:04 AM

Carol of the Bells does not, in any version I have seen, ever mention Jesus...perhaps those lyrics were added to some version? or is it that they are usually left out?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:55 AM

Hi Sharon and all,

Sorry this is so long.

In response:

"How do you look at the holiday season? You've explained your religious views today on the "Where is God?" thread,"

I am a Pagan Unitarian Universalist (not to imply that Paganism is more important than UUism) I've never been Christian and grew up in an Athiest household. We celebrated Christmas everyyear, but with the exception of some of the Christmas songs we listended to, the birth of Christ was not part of our holiday.

I enjoyed Christmas, because I had a loving family who gave me cool toys. When I grew up, I asked my dad why we celebrated Christmas. His response was threefold - first, the general sentiments of peace and hope and family are good, secondly, it was part nostalgia on his and especially my Mom's part - he also grew up as an Atheist, but my Mom's family were "casual Christians." The third reason was that they didn't want their son to feel bad or get picked on by the other kids because they didn't celebrate Christmas. (Welcome to the reality of non-Christians living in a Christian society)

"yet you've joined the Mudcat Secret Santa program"

I join the SS program, because it looked like fun and to me the name Secret Santa can be considered a convention. I don't get many presents or have a change to give many and I figure that this group here at Mudcat will probably be a great place to do so - thoughfulness and all that stuff.

"(and Santa is derived from the story of St. Nicholas... "Christian oriented, obviously"!) But you don't want to hear songs about Santa."

I happen to love many songs about Santa - I just don't believe in his history or expect presents from him. I realize that my above statements could lead you to think that I dislike Christmas music, but I like it a lot - actually, I did say the following above: " On the other hand, I do love many of the songs, including the Jesus birth songs because I love music and many of them are good music. The only thing I object to is that so many people in my culture cannot understand that I am not Christian and do not look at the holiday season the way they do." By the way, my parents never expected me to believe in Santa.

"And Solstice songs are right out."

Well, being Pagan, Solstice songs are right down my alley - bring 'em on, in fact, over the years I shared the concept at Mudcat that several of people's favorite Christmas songs are either Solstice songs or derrived from ancient Solstice rituals (for instance the tree in your front room - Luther didn't come up with it, it a couple thousand years older than that.)

"So aside from getting the day off from work"

I plan to work on Christmas - Yule is my "official day off - and the day after, because I follow the tradition of staying up to make sure the Sun rises the next morning). I won't put in a lot of hours, and true, I work out of my home primarily, but I'll be working.

"and playing Celtic music with friends, and listening to winter songs, is there anything else about the holiday season that interests you?"

I love potato latkas! - I spend the day before my church's Hannukah celebration pre-cooking them from scratch with close friends - a mixed Jewish/Christian Uintarian Universalist family.

I love eggnog and baking cookies and cakes - in fact - I have a tradition that what few presents I buy each year, I pay for by selling my cookies and cakes to friends for their holiday celebrations.

I sing songs (all kinds, I am still working on the Gaelic version of Jingle Bells, though).

I celebrate Yule at my church with a wonderful service, in which I lead the spiral dance (this will be my eighth year) and a nice bonfire to keep the chill of a Florida winter night off.

I tend to do little on Christmas day, for it holds no religious significace for me, though year round I celebrate the fine words that Jesus supposedly spoke - I especially like the mustard seed reference and the whole thing of the camel through the eye of the needle.

I will spend the afternoon and evening with friends, though many years this has been an issue for me. My dad has passed on, I don't know where my mom is, my sister has radically different views than me and I choose not to spend time with her if I can help it, and I have no other family. I do not have a wife, girlfriend or anything else (and rarely do), so basically I don't have a family. I have lots of good friends, but so often spending the day with one of them and their family leaves me feeling worse that being alone. I know they care for me, but it's not my family and somehow it doesn't feel right. The friends I will be with this years are a couple that I am very close to and probably one of their adult sons s s whoooo I am friends with as well. My best friend and her daughter will be their this year as well, as the daughter is afraid to fly post Sept. 11 and they won't be going "home" to Chicago. We all love the same type of music, care deeply for each other and the such. Hopefully I won't feel "hollow" at the end of the evening.

When I wrote my original post above, I just wanted people to hear that non-Christians are expected to listen to Christmas music for over a month each year - TV & radio commercials, stores, office Muzak and parties. Realize that any song that contains anything about Christmas is not a secular song. Christmas is a Christian holiday that many non-Christians observe each year because it is just easier to do so and "fit in." Any many more non-Christians do not celebrate it. My World Almanac (1995) states the following:

50,000 Baha'i, 590,000 Buddhists, 340,000 Hindu, 3,332,000 Muslim, and 4,300,000 Jews live in the U.S. - that's over Ten million Americans who practice a faith other than Christianity and that's not counting American Indians who are not Christian, Hawaiians who are not Christian as well as all the Pagans, Taoists, Jains etc. and roughly 20 million who are "non-religious." That comes to about 30 million people or over 10 percent of the U.S. population who are not Christian. For the most part, these people stand quietly during the "under God" part of the Pledge of Alliegance, use money that says "In God we trust," bow their heads during benedictions that beseech the "almighty Lord" and Jesus to guide their way in public and private meetings and listen to debates whether, like in the last presidential election, it is an issue that a vice-presidential candidate is Jewish.

1 in 10 people - 1 in 10. Am I angry, nope - not at all, I really am not. I just wish that the other 9 people I pass today would understand that I might not need to be wished a merry Christmas.

As for the importance of Christmas - peace, love and family - maybe more people in this world should try and practice what they preach. And as I usually sign off here at Mudcat: pax yall


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:52 AM

Don't forget Scarlet Ribbons


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Sonnet
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 05:46 AM

The Mistletoe Bough.

J.McS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:41 AM

Hi, Blackcatter! Thanks for that insight; your recent posts in the "Secret Santa" thread and the "Where is God?" thread make more sense to me now.

Okay, well, since you'll be making merry on the 25th of December, which someone once picked as the day of Christ's birth (for reasons that apparently had more to do with incorporating pagan Solstice celebrations than with history), I'll just wish you a merry 25th!

And a happy Every Day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:58 AM

Thanks Sharon - and the same right back at you.

And didn't you know - Jesus was born at tax time - probably around late March, which would have made him an Aries - the leader/ Alpha Male type.

Why, you say, do I think that ancient Juea's tax time was in the Spring? Taxes were levied on real property, not wages, and the absolute best time to tax a community that has much of its "money" tied up in livestock is in the Spring when the little ones had been born.

pax yall


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: mousethief
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:12 PM

Peg, you may be right. A quick online search shows that the aire very likely predates the christianization of the Ukraine; it was part of the "pagan" midwinter tradition in that part of the world (which also gave us the Easter egg -- Vive Ukraine!) the specifically Christmassy words were added later.

The "Jesus is King" bit sounds like a suspiciously 20th century addition. I found many versions online which did not have that bit in them; to be honest I didn't find any which did have it, and now I am starting to think I'm losing my mind, but I'm just sure I've heard SOMEONE sing it that way.

Oh well. I understand Altoids will take this foot taste out of my mouth.

While we're at it, does anybody know of a recording of "Carol of the Bells" using actual bells? I mean JUST bells? If so please divulge!

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: MMario
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:33 PM

MT - don't have any names, but do know there are at least two recording of Carol of the bells out there - one with just handbells and one a rendition on a full carrilon. Probably there are more.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: mousethief
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:50 PM

It's not their existence I question, Mmario -- I'd like to buy one, and thus need more information. :O)

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Genie
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:44 PM

Carol, Thanks for posting the Lutefisk song! The folks I sing for in Ballard have mentioned it but I did not know it.

How about I Yoost Go Nuts at Christmas by Stan (Berenson??)-- It's all the rage in Ballard, WA!<br> <br>

Also, Colorado Christmas by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.<br> <br>

The Man With The Bag   sung by Kay Starr <br> <br> My Christmas List (Peggy Lee)
Christmas Is
My Christmas Wish (sung by Anne Murray) The White Snows of Winter (sung by Kingston Trio)

 

Genie

BTW, Blackcatter, I'm not Jewish, but I love Chanukah songs (including the ones that are more religion oriented) and sing them often.

Christmas is a queer bird of a holiday, though. Christians complain (rightly, I think) that it is about Rudolph, Frosty, Santa, and buying lots of stuff, instead of about Jesus. Non-Christians see a fat man in a red suit who comes down the chimney as inevitably tied to religion--even if the kiddies have no such concept!

The problem stems from a religious holiday evolving into a national one. I don't think that bell can be un-rung. (At least Easter comes on a Sunday -- but to Jews and 7th Day Adventists, Sunday as a government holiday is not fair, either!)

Oh, well. To me, songs about Santa and presents are not religious songs, any more than Halloween has any religious significance to over 90% of Americans. Derivation is one thing, current meaning is another.

BTW, Winter Wonderland could be sung "Rabbi Green" instead of "Parson Brown" if one preferred, and the second verse is about building a snowman and pretending he's a circus clown, not about a parson.

Genie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Paul G.
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 08:47 PM

Man, oh man...how could I forget Robert Earl Keane's "Merry Christmas to the Family" ?!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Kaleea
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:58 AM

Carol, O Lutefisk brought back many fond memories of my days in Minn-nee-so-tuh ( vit umlaads over every vowel of course!) When I was drafted into a Polka band by a guitar student of mine, I was informed we would perform this song, and having spent great amounts of time with my voice students de-minneesotuh-izing their vowels, some were so shocked when I sang duh song vit such flat vowels that dey tought I vas a native, yah shure, ya betya. Und now, I haf a loflee tieeme rememberieeng myee days up dere in Norsky land, yah! However, being raised protestant from the lower midwest, I always had great fun with my Jewish friends who insisted that their parents have a "Hannukah Bush" in their living rooms. And I loved the visits at Temple or Synagogue where I got to sing in a totally different language! And sip a little wine, and yes it was kosher, I'm sure. Come to think of it, I must be very mixed up with all of the various holiday songs from all over the globe I have enjoyed in my lifetime. Noel!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 10:49 AM

these are the ones I sing this time of year:
Ewan MacColl song "Jesus was a working man ..." (I don't recall the title.) I might add the lyrics as I don't think it's on the 'Cat.
Woody Guthrie's Pretty Boy Floyd ("here's a Christmas dinner for the families on relief")
Quiet Land of Erin (to be found in a thread)- in the original Irish language version the homesick poet reflects on many a Christmas (or December - Nollaig means both the month and the day)spent in Ireland.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 11:18 AM

I'm with Blackcatter, I think. I love a lot of the holiday music, lots of Christ stuff, lots of Chanukkah stuff, never heard any Kwanzaa stuff but they are my favorite of those three holidays, if you take out the exclusionary language the principles are all worth celebrating. BUT I know that I'm singing about something I don't believe in. I am teaching my kids that the "true" (as we celebrate it) meaning of Christmas is GIVING - celebrating your love for your family by giving them things. So yes, you get presents, but that's not the point, the point is when you open them, make sure the giver is watching and that you thank them in addition to reacting with glee whether you like it or not. And this year (they are 6) we went $mas shopping and they sought out all kinds of things for cousins and so on, and didn't ask for ONE SINGLE THING for themselves. AND I've seen them writing to Santa Claus (in whom I am firmly trying to get them to believe, at least that's a small guarantee of good behavior after Thanksgiving!) asking for things not for themselves, but for each other. Yes, they are allowed to hide their greed by asking for a desired toy to be given to their brother so that they can play with it, let's be reasonable here.

What ARE the solstice songs, anyway, since that to me (I'm an atheist rapidly becoming a radical rabid fundamentalist atheist in reaction to this overweening Christianity being shoved down our throats - at least before 9.11 they didn't use the broom handle!) is the REAL thing worth celebrating, yes the planet has made yet another rotation about its star, yea verily, life will go on. It's also what I think of as New Year's. And I keep greenery around as a Midwinter reminder that Spring Will Come Again, and we decorate it, but it isn't usually a live tree (well, they sell those tiny ones, but I can't keep them alive, so I'd rather just go with boughs or something anyway). But I MIND the constant Christianity, I mind that my office is having Christmas cubicle decoration contests (I have an urge to find some red black and green and see what happens), that we gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to a Christian relief group in the wake of 9.11 (this SHOULD NOT BE A HOLY WAR but a war of the civilized against the barbarian, and all this God stuff is MAKING it into a religious war as the perpetrators want it to be, play right into their hands why don't you) and I'm going to shut up now.

Nice to know that there are at least 1/10 of us that aren't necessarily Christian. ABout 1 in 10 are left-handed, remember what we used to do to them?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 09:06 AM

It is very interesting for me to read about the feelings towards Christmas among Non-Christians in your culture. There's nothing remotely similar in scope to that in Germany. I'm an atheist and my wife is but our daughter expects 'christchild' to come to us in the 'holynight' and she'll find presents beneath Christian symbols. Where does that difference come from? Once more, the response is: the Nazi time.

Look e.g. at the best know German secular Christmas song: Hohe Nacht der klaren Sterne (I love it, by the way). Did you see the date of origin? 1936!

Yes, many of the German secular Christmas songs were deliberate attempts by the Nazis to replace Christian feelings. The massive attempt to introduce the term 'Julfest' (yuletide) comes from that time too. Today, if a German uses the word 'yule' you can bet (s)he is a Neonazi and you are right more often than not.

I'm far from any wish to stick the word 'neonazi' in a guilt-by-association way to those of you who use the term. You've a different history and have every right to use such a term without the connotations from our history. My only intention is to tell about differences in today's feelings coming from a different history.

Wolfgang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:05 PM

Interesting about the Nazis and the songs, Wolfgang...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: GUEST,Jay Mankita
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:11 PM

I wrote a parody I call 'The 12 Days of Recess' which refers to school vacation. Very secular. Three French Poodles, Two Ninja Turtle Gloves, and the Partridge Family CD and so on. I'd be happy to send the lyrics to anyone who asks.
songs@Jaymankita.com


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:16 PM

Very surprised no-one seems to have mentioned this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oOzszFIBcE

Hear it in "Thanks Goodness It's Folk" this forthcoming Friday.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Reinhard
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:46 PM

The hippopotamus in that youtube clip has been stolen from Wimoweh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Genie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:30 PM

Yeah, but the song itself was a hit for Gayla Peevy back in the '50s.
I Want A Hippopotamus For Christmas

Another kids' Christmas song from the '50s that Gene Autry sang but that is rarely heard anymore is "If It Doesn't Snow On Christmas"

and there was also
"Oh, By Gosh, By Golly (It's Time For Mistletoe And Holly)"

And a current country Christmas favorite is:
Santa Looked A Lot Like Daddy

And these are relatively new:
Merry Christmas With Love

Don't Save It All For Christmas Day

Old Toy Trains by Roger Miller


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: Genie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:33 PM

Boogie Woogie Santa Claus


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 'Secular' Holiday Songs
From: GUEST,Curtis
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:09 PM

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but Fum, Fum, Fum is definitely a religious song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 20 July 8:43 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.