Black Country Dialect

Subject: Black Country Dialect
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 04:52 AM

Now here's a good un. Do any of you scholars out there know whether there is a version of the Bible in Black Country (ie the area west-ish of Birmingham, UK) dialect. I'm sure I remember hearing summat about wun, but my local bookshop have never heard of it. Any pointers would be gratefully received.

Cheers.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:20 AM

Ay up Trev, ower kid. Oi bain't eerd on any such thing. Yo mean the gospel accordin' to Aynuck an' such loik?
As Brummagem is God'd own country there ought to be one. There used to be a Black Country Society, but I've been down south doing missionary work for 30 years so am a bit out of touch. If there isn't it'd be a bostin' thing to do!
Tara a bit
RtS (Yo kin tek the boy outta Brummagem but yo corn't tek the Brummagem outta the boy)

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:32 AM

There is this on Amazon:
The Gospels in Black Country Dialect
Kate Fletcher, Black Country Society Our Price: £1.95

Paperback - 64 pages (1989) Black Country Society; ISBN: 0904015319
RtS (plus lots of books of Black Country humour and folklore)

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:36 AM

...and this (same source):
The Old Testament in the Dialect of the Black Country Part 1
Kate Fletcher (Editor) Our Price: £2.25

Paperback (1975) Black Country Society; ISBN: 0904015092
RtS

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:42 AM

Ah doh know--sorry, I don't know of the whole thing being rewritten; I can't imagine anyone would spend so much time, and it's even less likely that anyone would want to publish it! I have come across Bible stories, especially the Nativity, in BCD ("Theer wuz this wench naermed Mary, an' 'er wuz 'ovvin' a babby ..."). There have been some booklets published, although I can't give you details. The Black Country Bugle has poems and other pieces in dialect, and have probably had Bible stories from time to time; you can write off for back copies, or write to the letters page & ask the readers. And here's a promising-looking website, and here's another.

I don't mean to pour code waerter on a bostin' idea, but I've always found stuff in dialect very difficult to read; it's usually in a different version of the one I grew up with, and the spelling is often idiosyncratic (you can't pronounce it if you're a southerner, or even a Brummie!); and it ignores the fact that if you use conventional spelling but BC dialect words and sentence structures, you get the desired resutl by reading it in the right accent.

But let us know how you get on!

Stayve

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:44 AM

I really must learn to type faster--Roger gets off three posts (and tweo internet searches) while I'm doing one!

Steve

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:46 AM

Well, Ah'll goo ter Craerdley! Here am them blickies again; Here's a promising website and here's another.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:53 AM

And from COPAC (catalogue of the 20-or so major research librraies) we have:
TI- The Old Testament : in the dialect of the Black Country AU- Parsons Harold AU- Fletcher Kate MV- Pt.2: The books of Joshua, Judges, Ruth, Job, Jonah, the first and second books of Samuel / by Kate Fletcher ; [edited and produced by Harold Parsons] PU- Tipton : Black Country Society PY- 1979 PD- 88p ; 19cm, pbk LA- English IS- 0904015173 KW- Bible. O.T.. English. Selections - Texts HL- Cambridge ; Trinity College Dublin

and to help you understand them:

TI- Aynuk's fust Black Country waerd buk AU- Raven Jon AU- Crane John PU- Wolverhampton : Broadside PY- 1978 PD- 36p : ill ; 14x16cm, Sd LA- English IS- 0950372269 KW- English language - Dialects - England - Black Country - Dictionaries KW- English language. Black Country dialect Dictionaries HL- Cambridge ; Trinity College Dublin

and

TI- A short grammar of Black Country AU- Biddulph Joseph PU- Pontypridd : Languages Information Centre PY- 1986 PD- 20p : ill ; 21cm, pbk LA- English IS- 0948565160 NT- Cover title KW- English language - Dialects - England - Black Country KW- English language. Black Country dialect KW- West Midlands (England) HL- Cambridge ; Oxford ; Trinity College Dublin

or

TI- A glossary of Black Country words and phrases AU- Shaw Thomas Vincent PU- Birmingham : Cornish Brothers PY- 1930 PD- 15 p ; 19cm LA- English KW- English language - Dialects - Glossaries, vocabularies, etc HL- Oxford

and of course my father's bible:

TI- West Bromwich Albion : soccer in the Black Country, 1879 to 1965 AU- Morris Peter PU- Heinemann PY- 1965 PD- 190p., ill.,23cm LA- English HL- Trinity College Dublin

RtS (that's what being an information professional -albeit one surplus to requirements- is all about, Steve!)

PS Of course Jon Raven ,leading light in the Black Country Society was in the Blck counrty 3 and Halliard) and is the brother of folk guitar wiz Mike Raven)

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Guessed
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 06:06 AM

GUEST,Roger the skiffler
I ay bein perdantic or nuffin but yo shud no Brummagem ay part uv the Black Country.
They doh even speak the same dierlect. AAND as fer knowin how ter use a screw driver they kan't figur what therm claws 'am fower.
Hommer 'um Craerdley

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: paddymac
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 06:07 AM

Dialects of all kinds can be fascinating things, especially if you're prone to ponder how they came to be. I've never been exposed to the BCD before, and hope that perhaps some of you more knowledgeable folks might expand a bit on its geography, culture and history.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 06:27 AM

Well, Guessed...as I went to a school (Handsworth in Brum)which had the Staffordshire knot on its badge (border changes), I had many classmates from "over the border" and I used to be able not only to do both dialects but place people within the different areas (I could tell Walsall from Dudley from Wolverhampton for example). I'm no Professor Higgins and couldn't do it now, but still do the odd Aynuck and Ayli story. I doubt there's more than six of us on the Mudcat who'd know the difference!
Herself is Bucks born and bred but her mother came from Coventry (of Scottish stock), her father was born in Birmingham and his father in Wolverhampton! Me? Born in Nechells of Birmingham parents on both sides, variously of Irish & Cheshire descent way back & brought up in Nechells and Erdington till I went to college.
Tara
RtS (my pathetic attempts at DiY owe a lot to the tradition of the Birmingham Screwdriver)

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 09:48 AM

... nt to be confused with the Brummagem spanner which is quite resectable for rusted nuts! (No irony intended, Roger)

Paddymac, I can tell you that there was a linguistic overlap with the top left-hand side of where they spoke Chaucer's English; there are a lot of similarities in pronunciation. One noticeable difference (still distinctive between Brummie & BC) is that we tend to render the "eye" sound as "ah", while they render it as "ee": "my dog" becomes "mah dog" ("mee [short "ee"] dog" in Brummie); the leading (trailing) vowel sound is dropped from the diphthong to give a single vowel sound.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 10:48 AM

Blarmey, I ay sin such a lowd o' Black Country since me nan wuz alarve 'n kickin. Ta muchley fer yer elp. Aah wuz born in Smerrick when it wuz part of Staffordshire 'n I ate it when arm accused o' bein a Brummie.

Aah've bin asked ta read a lesson at ower choir's carol sairvice an I thought rather'n troi 'n sownd posh aard spake like aah wuz brung up to. Marnd yow, they probly wo understand it in Salop where I am now.

Any rowd up, cheers for the 'elp.

Tara a bit.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:53 AM

Trevor, if you want to do your own translaertion, I suggest youre write the passage without respelling anything, as if you were relating an anecdote in a Black Country pub. Speak it straight to tape, if you like: that way you don't spend too much time thinking about grammar and syntax (and spelling!). Use the kind of dialect words and expressions you'd use (or your nan would have used, which might be even better). When you write it up fair, don't respell except where absolutely necessary: tha way you can read it fluently. Practice reading it in the accent--lock yourself in the bathroom or the garden shed so you don't have to put up with the family gawping.

And send us a copy, and let us know how it went!

Steve

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 09:14 AM

My mother grew up in Bloxwich where her family had been locksmiths for generations but the business was wiped out in the early 70s along with so many other small old companies. The only Bible in her family home was a good Methodist one.
The Black Country Museum in Dudley stocks a lot of fascinating material about the region, including booklets. Even if it hasn't got the Black Country Bible it is well worth a visit - I took my nieces there last year to show them their roots, and they were enthralled. Anyway, Trevor, good luck with your reading at the carol service.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 09:50 AM

I'm a fan of the Birmingham Screwdriver and use it in my DIY attempts but why did it get that name?

Jon

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: CharlieA
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 10:14 AM

Did you know that some of the Iambic Pentameter rhymes in Shakespear don't work in bbc english cos Shakespear had a Black Country accent. Ok so thats uiseless info but useless info is my forte! Cxxx

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 11:09 AM

Upon researching our family trees both Mrs. G and I discoverd that our forfathers were from about 2 miles apart. Hers from Bilston, mine from Sedgeley. We were touring said area and chanced upon a hostlery (The Brittania, Upper Gornal) facing Spills Meadow where my great, great grandad Stanley was born.

I was about to ask if there were any Stanleys left in the area when a local shouted across the bar to the landlord,

"Stanloiy, tow mower points of moild and a bag uf scratchins..."

I didn't have the bottle to ask. Best pint of mild, pork pie and bag of scratchings I have ever had though:-)

Cheers

Dive the nowum.
Kipper tie anyone?

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: John Routledge
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 01:56 PM

Jon - There is also a Manchester Screwdriver so I guess every city north of Watford has one. :0)

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 01 - 05:26 PM

Yeh - they wouldn't understand the humour south of Watford...;-)

DtG
Duck! Hide! Duck hide? I thought ducks had feathers?

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,help please!!!!
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 01:35 PM

does anybody know of the grammar used within the balck country dialect?????????????????

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 03:32 AM

A Little Black Country Grammar. Actually, it's a vocabulary. I imagine that any grammar they used was learned at Bilston Boys'.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Trevor
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 10:31 AM

Gosh, I'd forgotten about this thread. I did manage to find a reading in Black Country dialect for the service and it went down well.

Undiscerning people still keep accusing me of being a Brummie, although my accent is a bit mixed up with South Shropshire these days (I've lived in the wilds for 25 years).

When I was a lad Smethwick was in Staffordshire. In fact, just down the road was the Three Shires Oak (a pub had taken the place of the tree) which marked the boundaries of Staffs, Warwicks and a little detached bit of Shropshire. In fact my school (Holly Lodge) badge had the Staffordshire knot as part of the arms.

I never did say thanks to those who posted with helpful suggestions - thanks!

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 12:02 PM

Ye Knaah!! Aah owny undastud aboot eight words in the whole o' this thread.

Eeh !! Yez are aall a bunch of bad-speakin' buggaz an' nee mistake.

Nee wonder the country's gannin' te the dogs

Gerootovit willyez

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Alycia
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:22 AM

ur question bout d bible---oh yes it does exist!!!!!!!! me dad had 1, but he lent it 2 his m8 n nevr got it back! iv been trying 2 get hold of anothr but not succeedin eithr,so if u do find 1, please,please leave a msge as 2 whre- im sure were not d only 1's!! much luv.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:59 AM

I come from Cannock but teach in Bloxwich. The kids there think I'm posh.

Me dad had the army and navy stores in Wednesbury - proper black country.

I dow think anyone can imitate the accent unless they're local. I can spot a 'drama school Brummie' straight away.

I'd love a black country Bible. Bostin.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:49 AM

West-ish area of Brumagem?
Wash yer marth owt Trevor.
The Black Cuntry is a millyun cultrul myrles ferm that smudge on the map. An at least 10 as the crow flies NW.

I wus born in the dead centre of civilisation.
Wedgebury
it's the very dead centre - ay it?

When Johnson & Boswell went on their tour of Brittain Johnson declared the area wus black by day and red by night from all the foundaries. Black wus nowt to do with coal (until it wus burned).

Brum wus just the village of Aston (as in Villa) at the time.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 09:53 AM

Up the Villa :-)

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:51 AM

Here we go a translator for English to Black Country

http://www.ibostin.com/?page_id=635

The picture of the pub that is sloping is a pub I have been to. It's called The Crooked House. When you go inside, it makes you feel pissed without even having a drink. If you put a coin on the shelving, the coin rolls upwards.

Subject: RE: Black Country Dialect
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:03 AM

Every time I goo tu the Glyn Arms (as it usedtowus wen I fust went) I walk upto the frunt doer an walk into the grournd!
The flagstones um level!
The pub wus built in an area of miern shafts, an when it sloped tu one sired the went an built a strairt bit and that sloped us well! Now the restaurant looks strairt as a die. That's progress, they tell me!