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Help: Music-slowing software

Chris Seymour 26 Nov 01 - 11:21 PM
Terry K 26 Nov 01 - 11:49 PM
IvanB 27 Nov 01 - 12:34 AM
IvanB 27 Nov 01 - 12:35 AM
GUEST,Guest 27 Nov 01 - 07:34 AM
nutty 27 Nov 01 - 07:53 AM
JohnInKansas 27 Nov 01 - 08:07 AM
Grab 27 Nov 01 - 10:20 AM
nutty 27 Nov 01 - 10:24 AM
GUEST,Guest 27 Nov 01 - 10:39 AM
Mark Clark 27 Nov 01 - 04:24 PM
IvanB 27 Nov 01 - 04:45 PM
Chris Seymour 27 Nov 01 - 05:06 PM
BanjoRay 27 Nov 01 - 06:02 PM
Chris Seymour 27 Nov 01 - 09:55 PM
JohnInKansas 28 Nov 01 - 09:25 AM
Chris Seymour 01 Dec 01 - 12:08 AM
JohnInKansas 01 Dec 01 - 10:24 PM
Lin in Kansas 01 Dec 01 - 10:57 PM
Brigie 02 Dec 01 - 04:48 AM
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Subject: Music-slowing software
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 26 Nov 01 - 11:21 PM

I'm interested in software that simply slows down recorded music without altering its pitch -- for use in learning banjo licks. I've searched the forum and learned that a fairly fancy program, Cool Edit, does this, but I don't need the notation functions of that program (I don't really read music). So I have a couple of questions:

1. Is there software that, in fairly user-friendly fashion, does what I'm looking for?

2. Where is it available and for how much?

Many thanks for any assistance.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Terry K
Date: 26 Nov 01 - 11:49 PM

Try using the playback facility of the Sound Recorder utility that comes with Windows - if you have it. It does a step slowdown (don't know by how much) and/or a speed-up (by 25%). You may be able to work something out before you spend any money on software.

Cheers, Terry


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: IvanB
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 12:34 AM

You can download WinAmp, if you don't already have it, here:

http://www.winamp.com/

, then get Pacemaker (a WinAmp plugin) here:

Pacemaker

I also recommend another WinAmp plugin, Loop Master, which allows you to 'mark' small pieces of music for repetitive practice. It's here:

Loop Master

Just one caveat: Pacemaker, at least, requires that the sound file be on the hard disk. It won't work with sound coming from a CD or record. But it's fairly easy to record to your hard disk.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: IvanB
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 12:35 AM

BTW, all the above programs are free.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:34 AM

I use Noteworthy, and within that you can define the tempo. It doesn't change the pitch. An evaluation copy is free, but has a few restrictions such as the number of saves you can make, and you can't print (although you can cut & paste into Word). The full copy is inexpensive for what it does. I think it's really useful for what you're trying to do, and you could even use it to help you learn to read the dots. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: nutty
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:53 AM

Correction Guest ... but Noteworth Composer does allow you to change the pitch by transposing the key in which the tune is written.
Go to TOOLS - TRANSPOSE STAFF - then move the notation up or down by however many semi-tones you want.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 08:07 AM

Depending on how you want to use it, you might be better off with one of the small recorders that offers this slow-down playback.

There are a few available that are large-pocket-size. Record (via built-in mike) from any source you can find, and then listen to short sections at about 2 or 3 to 1 change in speed.

My understanding is that they use internal RAM to "snatch" and digitize up to 30 seconds or so of the original audio, and then you just flip a switch to the "slow" position to play back. The ones I've seen generally loop short sections easily, so you can study them.

Sorry I don't have a brand name or contact info at hand, but if there is an interest - and if the thread stays alive long enough - I'll see if one of the guys I know that has tried them can provide some dope on them. Unfortunately, my best contact on this is a long-haul trucker - so I never know when I'll see him next.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Grab
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 10:20 AM

Just recording a sound and then "playing-it-back-slowly" alters the pitch of notes. Double the playback time, and all the notes drop an octave (if I remember my maths right).

The trick is to do some funky maths to alter the playback time without changing the pitch. Most sound editting packages (Goldwave, SoundForge etc) can do this. I don't know whether the pocket-recorder would manage it though. I use Goldwave, and if I need to learn something difficult then I tend to record it to the hard drive and generate a couple of slowed-down versions, one at about half-speed and one at quarter-speed. I then blow all three recordings to a CDR, so that I can play it back through my hi-fi instead of being limited to playing it through the PC speakers.

Noteworthy is a different kettle of fish altogether. It doesn't record sound at all, it just generates notes of specific duration - you want it played slower, it can hold the notes on for longer. This is great for playing stuff which is written down in dots, but isn't useful for working out what someone's playing on a recording. And since it isn't playing back a recording, there's no pitch shift problems slowing it down (which Guest was talking about).

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: nutty
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 10:24 AM

Apologies Guest..... I misunderstood what you were saying


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 10:39 AM

Thanks for the extra input ref Noteworthy; Graham grasped my point, but I'd missed the fact that Chris is wanting to play back recorded music in the first place. Noteworthy can interpret a midi file and display/play back, so if you have the facility to create a midi file it could work for you. I'll shut up and go back to sleep now.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Mark Clark
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 04:24 PM

IvanB, Thanks for the links. I've used MusicWatch for a long time and didn't know about the WinAmp plugins. I've often thought about buying one of those special-purpose tape machines that JohnInKansas talked about but your solution will work quite nicely at a much better price.

It looks as though I can also record my old 78 RPM disks using 33-1/3 or 45 and use the Pacemaker plugin to put them right again. I no longer have a turntable with a 78 RPM speed.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: IvanB
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 04:45 PM

Mark, I'd used MusicMatch for a long time also, because I really didn't like WinAmp all that well at my first look (about 2-3 years ago). But MusicMatch has gotten to be more bloated and a bigger memory hog with each succeeding upgrade. I finally said 'enough' and took another look at WinAmp. I was pleasantly surprised, and with all the plugins available, it's really quite versatile.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 05:06 PM

Thanks for the tips, folks. Alas, I forgot to specify that I use macintosh, so I'm assuming that WinAmp is not an option for me. What about Music Match? Is it available for macintosh? Does it do what I'm looking for?

I would prefer a program that can deal with music direct from CD rather than having to copy to hard drive, both for ease of use and to avoid taking up too much hard drive space, though I suppose it would only have to be on the drive til I'd learned the licks...

Thanks, in advance, for any more guidance.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: BanjoRay
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 06:02 PM

The Transkriber software does exactly what you want, on a Mac or PC. You can order it at the Acutab Website

Hope this helps.
Ray


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 09:55 PM

Many thanks, BanjoRay- I checked out the site, and the sound samples have me convinced. Cool! I love Mudcat -- I haven't the time these days to participate regularly, but everytime I have a folk-related question, I get an answer. Wonderful, wonderful. BanjoRay and Mudcat have made my day.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:25 AM

Grab (& others)

The recorders to which I refer are designed specifically for the purpose of "larnin' songs."

As indicated, only short "snatches" can be recorded. The sample is apparently digitized, and can be played back at one-half or one-third speed at the same pitch. The "pitch" sample is "echoed" two or three times to extend the duration, without changing the note.

The main limitation of these specialty recorders is that they don't have enough memory to hold a very long tune.

As far as software is concerned, almost any decent "music" program will "open" any midi file, and will display it either as notation or in "piano roll" format. Changing the tempo in the midi file does not affect the pitch - so once you punch in a new tempo and save it, you can play it back as was requested.

Any recommendations about "the best" software to use would have to be based on what else you want to do with it - since this is an almost universal capability of any music (notation or midi) software.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:08 AM

Actually, I don't need to compose or notate; all I want to do is slow down tunes so's I can larn 'em. It appears the Transkriber software does that for $50 -- any better deals out there I'm missing? Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 10:24 PM

Apparently the original problem has been settled satisfactorily, but some person above apparently didn't understand the function of the "recorder/sampler" I mentioned.

On the chance that someone else might be interested in this type of device, one example is at Sabine. Click on the "music accessories" rolldown, and look for the

BackTrak BT-316M Digital Decoder/Sampler (16 bit) or
BackTrak BT-300 Digital Decoder/Sampler (8 bit)

Sabine also refers to these devices as "Phrase Trainers."

Sample (input) time is limited to about 30 seconds, and playback at the slowest speeds reportedly produces some distortion, but you can "snatch" the difficult parts and slow them down for study without pitch change.

An associate reports that he purchased the BT-300 a few months ago for about $100, so it's not something to pick up if you don't need it.

There are other mfrs, and I don't intend any particular endorsement of this brand - just to clarify what the device-type is.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 10:57 PM


Bald Headed Stepchild on Lin's cookie.

I own a Sabine Backtracker 300 as referred to by JIK. I have had it about 3 years and am very pleased with it. Cost at that time was about $100.00, and I consider it money well spent.

It takes a sample up to 30 seconds and can be played back in a loop at full,2/3,1/2,or 1/3 speed continuously. One of the real advantages is that you can split the signal to help isolate the instrument desired.

If your instrument is electric you can also plug your instrument into the line in and seperate the playback and inst to seperate channels while larnin the desired lick, increasing the speed until played up to tempo.

The only problem I have had with this device,which may have been improved upon on the newer 316 model, is that on 1/3 speed the playback is somewhat distorted,but I have found that all but the fastest of licks i.e.Ricky Skaggs or Eddie Van Halen, can be easily deciphered using 1/2 or 2/3 speed.

The biggest advantage to this system in my humble #$%^& opinion is that you are larnin by playing with your instrument instead of your computer.

BALD HEADED STEPCHILD c/o Lin in Kansas


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Subject: RE: Help: Music-slowing software
From: Brigie
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 04:48 AM

Hello Chris Seymour, I have a great very simple system.........MUSICIANS CD PLAYER............. I had to order it from Sweden and it cost $35.... When you have it downloaded, you just put on the CD you want to slow down, click record and click how slow you want it and bingo. You can save it on the computer and everytime you want to have a lesson, you just sit at your comoputer and listen........and play!!!! you can order ( and get more info ) from : roni@ronimusic.com

good luck Brigid


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