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BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
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Subject: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:19 PM I may not watch Jay Leno again. Last night he announced that the French had sent troops to Afghanistan to teach the Taleban "surrendering techniques" Considering that he was talking about young men gone to risk their lives in a war zone, talking about one of his country's "Allies", the "joke" was in very poor taste. Am I alone in feeling this way? Are WWII stereotypes applicable in 2001?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: CarolC Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:21 PM No, you're not alone. Ever since 11 September, Jay Leno makes me cringe. Before that, he just bored me to tears. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: katlaughing Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:37 PM I never watch him, anyway, but that sounds terrible and I agree with you. It sounds as though it was in very poor taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: SINSULL Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:39 PM One more reason not to watch him. |
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Subject: Jay Leno From: Clinton Hammond Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:42 PM Oh please... It's a joke... Not that I've had much use for The Tonight Show ever... but yer reading WAY too much into it...
"Booooooonnnnnjour! Ya cheese eatin' surrender monkeys" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: JedMarum Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:56 PM Letterman's better anyway ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:07 PM I understand what you are saying Clinton, But Grounds Keeper Willie was not speaking with respect to Sept 11. Sept. 10 I might have told the same joke. Now it doesn't feel right. I don't believe that anyone on Earth believes that a French soldier is any more likely to surrender than any other. The French contingant is a few hundred soldiers Uncle Sam won't have to send overseas. Leno's attitude is condescending and smacks of ingratitude. I hope it does not reflect or influence the opinions of many of Mr. Leno's fellow citizens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: JedMarum Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:09 PM agreed Jack, sounds like Leno's comment was bad judgement and made in poor taste |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Rick Fielding Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:10 PM Leno just reads the jokes his writers supply, and they're careful to make sure that the "victims" have no political clout. Can you just IMAGINE what would happen if he started one off with: "This Muslim terrorist, Israeli terrorist, American terrorist and Irish terrorist walk into a bar....... The French have been gettin' it for years, and nowhere as much as in my all-time favourite "funny" show, "Yes Minister". I really wish that more Americans had a chance to see that show. It runs (it's twenty years old) periodically here in Canada, and can cause you to actually go into hysterics for minutes on end. The best description of it I can give anyone who hasn't seen it is, just picture what Bush, Rumsfeld, Ari Fleischer etc. discuss when the cameras are OFF! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: SharonA Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:33 PM Yeah, Jack, I saw that last night too, and must agree that it was in very poor taste (as are quite a few of Leno's jokes). I rarely watch Leno except for the occasional Monday night in the fall when ABC's Monday Night Football pushes "Nightline" and "Politically Incorrect" back past my usual bedtime. Leno tells jokes like my brother does: he repeats and explains the punchline while the audience applauds the first telling of the joke. It drives me crazy. The only part of Leno's show I enjoy is the "Headlines" bit, but unfortunately I have to suffer through the monologue first. If I found Letterman any funnier, I'd watch his monologue instead, but I think they're equally unamusing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,kendall Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:33 PM Jay who? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: paddymac Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:42 PM Sometimes we all forget that it is important to distinguish been a people and their government(s). Seems like that is de rigour at the moment in discussions about Afghanastan. I don't think the average American thinks poorly of the French, but in a polyglot, multi-cultural society like ours, they are the butt of their "fair share" of jokes. Jokes are jokes, even when stupid and done in poor taste. It sounds to me like Leno made himself the butt of the joke, though probably unaware of doing it. Never much cared for him anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: X Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:52 PM The men of The French Foreign Legion have never surrendered. They will and have fought to the last man. History has already proven that. |
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Subject: *sigh* From: Clinton Hammond Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:55 PM Sept 10th... major changes coming to the world but over all, everything stays the same... The most accurate horoscope ever... Not to belittle the personl horror experienced by anyone involved in the destrucion and death of sept 11th, but life goes on eh... Ya gonna let what happend that day taint the whole rest of your life??? This goes right along with the thread from a couple of weeks ago regarding censoring the music you play with regards to the bullshit of sept 11th or the crap in N. Ireland or whatever... Don't let the zealots win! Keep doin' whatever it is you do... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: jeffp Date: 27 Nov 01 - 03:58 PM The men of the French Foreign Legion are not French. Hence the term, "Foreign." jeffp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Nov 01 - 04:26 PM Clinton Hammond said. Sept 10th... major changes coming to the world but over all, everything stays the same... Not to belittle the personl horror experienced by anyone involved in the destrucion and death of sept 11th, but life goes on eh... Ya gonna let what happend that day taint the whole rest of your life??? I don't believe taint is the right word, but I don't think I'll ever enjoy a joke like that one again. I don't think it serves anyone to call the present day French cowards because of actions 60 years ago. I didn't feel that way before Sept. 11. I do now.
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,Jenny the T Date: 27 Nov 01 - 04:45 PM The Foreign Legion's officers are all French, and they are a part of France's armed forces, hence the term "French." Foreign Legion aside, then French armed forces are no more cowards than any other nation's. They got their wee arses whupped in 1940 because of incompetent leadership and pie-in-the-sky planning--can you spell "Maginot line?" Leno's a dickhead, pure and simple. He's proved it to me many a time, and now he's proved it again. JtT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: X Date: 27 Nov 01 - 04:55 PM I've fought side by side with Legionaries and most were French, as were all the officers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: JedMarum Date: 27 Nov 01 - 05:10 PM "Yes Minister" does play in the US. I saw it years ago when I lived in Boston on the PBS stations there, and it has been recently re-running on PBS in the Dallas area. It is a great show, and I laugh my ass off too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: wysiwyg Date: 27 Nov 01 - 05:27 PM "Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon?" This is news?? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,Melani Date: 27 Nov 01 - 05:57 PM I never bother with Leno or Letterman. If I'm going to stay up that late, I spend the time on Mudcat. The jokes are better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Nov 01 - 06:20 PM O
OOne of the above is a mountain and the other is a molehill. Please select which is which. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,kendall Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:11 PM Now I remember. He is that lightweight who thinks he replaced Johnnie Carson. Poor deluded a*****e |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Jim Dixon Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:19 PM II have detested Jay Leno ever since he made jokes about JonBenét Ramsey's death, implying that her parents were the murderers. On a scale of good taste he ranks somewhere below Howard Stern and Tom Green. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,HippieChick Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:36 PM Below Howard Stern? that's the Mohorovicic Discontinuity.....yeah it must be the lack of oxygen... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: ddw Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:37 PM I really don't care much about the French one way or the other — I've met good ones and bad ones, just like any other nationality — but I've always marveled a little at something that happened while I was in grad school at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ont. back in 1970-'73. I was doing tutorials in a second-year class on international relations. The prof was big on simulations, so after one semester of readings, each of the 15 or so students in each tutorial was assigned all of the characteristics of a fictitous country — geography, economy, military capabilities, etc. — and they had to formulate foreign policy vis-a-vis all the other "countries" in their group. In both my tutorials, with no collaboration I could ever find, in less than six weeks the country that was based on France had been hit by tactical nukes. And in both cases the "French" immediately surrendered. go figure. david |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: DougR Date: 27 Nov 01 - 10:13 PM He rises from the floor after having fainted from the realization that he agrees with Jack the Sailor. He didn't hear the aforementioned program, but feels that if it was as reported, and he has no reason that it is not, it was in poor taste. himself |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Nov 01 - 10:25 PM Damn Doug....You sure gave in awfully easy on this one. What are you, French or something? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 27 Nov 01 - 10:28 PM who is Tom Green?
j |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Coyote Breath Date: 27 Nov 01 - 11:26 PM Vive le Mort, Vive le Guerre Vive le Legion Etranger! I love the French, especially when they are being insulted. I have heard some other remarks about them, like the British officer in the film "Last of the Mohicans" sneering that "they make love with their faces". Works for me. Considering our recent past, being able to surrender doesn't seem like such a bad thing. I kind of admire the French for having a more civilized view of war than most of us. But Leno is, alas, a jerk. There hasn't been a decent Tonight Show host since Jack Parr's replacement hosts: Ernie Kovaks and Alexander King. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Nov 01 - 11:30 PM I disagree.......For the days prior to Carson, and in fact he introduced Carson, Groucho Marx hosted the Tonight Show. In our shop, and in many automotive shops, some jacks were referred to as "French Jacks" because they kept going down on you. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:13 AM You people are revolting! I'm reporting you to the Surite (shit, how can you make a joke without an accent egue?) Actually I think the whole thing about the French has a LOT to do with their supposed ability to REALLY make love. Nobody made jokes about their fighting ability while Napoleon was at the helm.......well maybe the Duke of Wellington did. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: DougR Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:58 AM Well, Spaw, one of my grandmother's was a DeLozier. I suppose that's pretty French, isn't it? Vive! La France! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Blackcatter Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:19 AM I've never really gotten the whole French surrendering thing. Anyone who is a student of history, will realize that the French actually have had trouble surrendering or giving up. Check out the history of Vietnam and Algeria. The English Channel, a remarkably brutal Russian winter and the combined forces of Russia, the U.S., and the British Empire troops are what stopped the German forces in WWII. On the other hand, the French tend to be rude, love Jerry Lewis, like hairy women and are way too protective of the word Champagne. God love them. As for Jay Leno, the biggest problem I have with him is that he just ain't funny. pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:12 AM To The Banjoest.
I carry no brief for the French Foreign Legion, one way or the other, but to say they never surrender is just not right. JG / FME. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Raptor Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:52 AM Can we all bow our heads for a moment?
HUMOR IS DEAD!!
You poeple should just watch C-span.
Thats all you can handle!
I guess you would have crewsified Lenny Bruce.
Raptor
I know, I know I can't spell! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Mountain Dog Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:56 AM Humor dead? No, it just has trouble thriving within spitting distance of Messrs. Leno and Letterman... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,Jay Leno Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:52 AM What's a Kendall? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: GUEST,McFart of knowitall Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:55 AM If Jay Leno said that Jonbenet's parents killed her, he really is an idiot. Everyone knows that it was her jealous older brother who did it and that her parents are just covering up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:30 AM Who's Lenny Bruce, Raptor? Now Bob Hope, jerry Lewis, and (the later) Bill Cosby......THEY were funny! Just Kidding! Honestly! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: PeteBoom Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:20 PM To poke fun at the inept French high command is one thing. To poke fun at individual rank and file is something else. People who have seen the face of battle (great line from John Keegan, former Prof of Military History, Sandhurst) will know better than to criticize the rank and file or line officers of any military establishment. Belittling the inept decisions made by REMFs is a noble duty. Need examples? Name the GREATEST military commander France produced.... Napoleon? Nope, he's Corsican, not French. Umm, Anyone heard of Sedan? Where the French Army was completely surrounded by the Prussians and forced to capitulate (after being cut to ribbands)? They were where they were because the high command did not believe reports that came in about the location of the Prussian army - if the Prussians were there, then their plans would be disrupted, so they ignored it. Countless examples in WWI where the French insisted that sticking with traditional uniforms would save the honour of the French army and maintain the elan needed to carry the day. Complete with the blue tunics and red trousers making excellent targets for the German infantry and machine guns as they emerged in Napoleonic lines of battle shoulder to shoulder in 1914, and had regiments reduced to the size of companies in a few hours. The SAME high command being concerned about using "colonial" troops in the line of battle in 1914 until reserves/conscripts could be trained. It seems they were afraid that using non-European troops would hurt the morale of the civillians. Never mind that they were the ONLY battle-tested troops they had. Also, someone mentioned the Maginot line earlier - consider this - the French and German plans for attack and defense varied only in level of detail between 1914 and 1940. In 1940, the Germans used technology to give them an edge in assault: long-range armoured ability, moderate to long-range ground support aircraft, mobile assault troops (although most moved on foot and supplies were pulled in horse-drawn wagons.) In 1940, the French used the latest in technology for regional and local defense: Maginot fortifications, short range armour, short range ground support aircraft. The assault in 1914 ended short of Paris with identical technological levels. With the differences in 1940, the assaults ended at the Channel, and Paris. Not due to the lack of zeal of the rank and file, who fought well with what they had, but through the blind folly of their officers. Their colonial period exploits were not that much better - While the French and their Indian allies cut bloody swaths through British ranks during the Seven Years War, when push came to shove and traditional European tactics were employed, they were defeated regularly. Quebec was lost to an attacking army SMALLER than the defending army fer cryin' out loud. (Or, as one fellow I know who worked as a historical interpreter/tour guide at a restored fort built by the French later taken over by the Brits would jokingly say, "There is no small chance that the battle colours carried by French troops before the Revolution was the same colour as the flag calling for a truce - white." Ah well...
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:35 PM Sheesh! Just remembered that "Bill The Conquerer" (1066 and all that) wasn't French either...but a "Norman"! Sorry 'bout the "Napoleon" reference, Pete. 'Course I knew he was Corsican. In school (Here in Canada) we learned all about Brave Wolfe (The Plains of Abraham) and his brilliant strategy....but they always put in a good word for how "noble" Montcalm was. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: X Date: 28 Nov 01 - 12:38 PM To John Gray, "...we bloody few." Dude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:25 PM Mountian vs Molehill, Catspaw, I would think that pretty much any thread on Mudcat is a molehill in the grand scheme of things. Just because something is not monumental, doesn't mean we can't discuss it. Right? Of course you know that and just made that comment for a cheap joke. Whether I might be offended or not is irrelevant. Just as Mr. Leno knows that the French aren't going to Afghanistan to give surrender lessons. And just as he knows that the French won't complain. That brings me at least to an interesting realization. It is a difficult job to do topical humour. A lazy joke writer, like apparantly Mr. Leno's staff can easily fall into insults, chiches and bigotry, just becase it is the easiest thing to do. Hunour is not dead, but certian types of humour probably should be. I actually listened to Mr. Leno's entire show last night. Bottom Line, as many of you have already pointed out, his jokes are lazy, repetitive eand boring and he doesn't show much taste. The show is not worth watching. He was stereotyping Italians last night. He probably could have made his point without the pasta jokes, but he took the easy way. He seems to be really hung up on that sort of thing. DougR, you and I agree on a lot of things. Thats what makes the differences so much fun.
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Nov 01 - 01:52 PM Actually Jack, I left that one just hanging out there. It's true that we can discuss anything here down to the most trivial, banal, sordid, inconsequential.....whatever. Our lives are made up of the inconsequential and rarely does anything of real substance come our way as it did on 9-11. Discussion is simply that...discussion. No one changes much around here and it's fun to talk. What I did see in this thread was a lot of folks taking great offense at the epitome of banality. Jay Leno? Really? Now I admit that there are some viewers that are taken in by his stuff, but most around here are not.......And to actually have an opinion on anything he has to say means that we have to give him credibility, to actually let his opinion matter. Does it? One of the most difficult things I have ever tried to teach any of my kids is that what someone says only matters if you believe it and if they are someone with an opinion that is personally important to them. It's the old sticks and stones argument but we all keep allowing the words to hurt us. Words only hurt if you respect the speaker and can believe them of yourself. In any case, if it did offend you, I'd like to apologize although I hate to give in so easily lest someone think I'm French. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Lonesome EJ Date: 28 Nov 01 - 02:01 PM So far it doesn't look as though the Taliban forces need much training in "surrendering". For all the promises to "fight to the death" and the danger of confronting so-called "suicide brigades", the truth has been that they have shown the willingness to surrender in droves. And the French? There was not a country on the continent of Europe that could have stood up to the Nazi Blitzkrieg, and had the British not moved so quickly to evacuate their troops at Dunkirk, they might have suffered the same fate. The German Army was a force that may have been designed with, as Peteboom said long-range armoured ability, moderate to long-range ground support aircraft, mobile assault troops, but they were eventually conquered by the Russian Winter, numerically superior Russian forces, and the vast geography of the USSR. The Russians were able to withdraw and re-establish their war manufacturing well beyond the range of German Luftwaffe bombers, which were mainly designed for troop support and not long-range targeting. Had the Germans been in possession of bombers such as the American B-17, the war against Russia would certainly have turned out differently. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Jim Dixon Date: 28 Nov 01 - 02:52 PM Jay Leno is half Italian and half Scottish, so I suppose that gives him license to make fun of Italians and Scots. I once heard him being interviewed on NPR, and he talked about his parents. It was the one time I found him genuinely funny, because his humor was (I think) based on truth and personal experience, and was free of hostility, which is usually not the case. Yes, it's hard to do topical humor, but anyone who can't do it better than he does ought to give up. Letterman does it much better, and more gently. I can forgive bad taste if it's funny, but Leno just isn't funny enough to earn my forgiveness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: wysiwyg Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:14 PM "Norman, oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-ooh..., Norman, oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-ooh...! Norman, oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-ooh..., Norman my love!" Remember? ~S~
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: Don Firth Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:33 PM I used to watch Carson from time to time (after Dick Cavett's show was cancelled), but I never could get into Leno or Letterman. I'm usually snoozing up a storm at that hour. Much better way to spend one's time. Referring to a comment by Rick Fielding wa-a-a-ay up yonder, if your local PBS affiliate ever carries "Yes, Minister" and/or its sequel "Yes, Prime Minister," dont miss it!! Besides being an absolutely hilarious show, it's the best tele-course I have ever seen on the way politics work. Four star. Two thumbs up. Highly recommended. They should show it in high school civics classes, so kids grow up knowing what politics is really all about. "No, Bernard, the purpose of the Official Secrets Act is not to protect secrets. It's to protect officials!" Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon. From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:35 PM Ditto on "Yes, Minister" and Prime too........my second favorite Britcom. Spaw |