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Lyr Req: The Twentieth Century Is Almost Over

DigiTrad:
BANANA REPUBLICS
CITY OF NEW ORLEANS
DEATH OF A SALESMAN
DYING CUB FAN'S LAST REQUEST
ELECTION YEAR RAG
ELECTRIC CHAIR BLUES
NOWHERE IN A HURRY BLUES
PENNY EVANS
SOMEBODY ELSE'S TROUBLES
TROUBLE WILL FIND YOU
VEGEMATIC
YOU DON'T EVEN CALL ME BY MY NAME


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Lyr Req: Yellow Coat (Steve Goodman) (5)
Chords Req: Somebody Else's Troubles (S Goodman) (5)
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Lyr Req: 20th Cent. Is Almost Over (2) (closed)


Alex 24 Feb 98 - 11:45 PM
24 Feb 98 - 11:52 PM
Alex 25 Feb 98 - 12:31 AM
Alex 25 Feb 98 - 12:36 AM
Dale Rose 25 Feb 98 - 03:03 AM
Wolfgang Hell 25 Feb 98 - 09:55 AM
an offended regular (not 'anon') 25 Feb 98 - 11:46 AM
Alex 25 Feb 98 - 01:33 PM
25 Feb 98 - 01:39 PM
Earl 25 Feb 98 - 02:59 PM
Joe Offer 25 Feb 98 - 03:31 PM
Dale Rose 25 Feb 98 - 03:47 PM
Bert 25 Feb 98 - 04:13 PM
Joe Offer 25 Feb 98 - 04:25 PM
Earl 25 Feb 98 - 04:59 PM
BAZ 25 Feb 98 - 06:01 PM
Bill D 25 Feb 98 - 06:20 PM
Charlie Baum 25 Feb 98 - 11:46 PM
Alex 25 Feb 98 - 11:57 PM
Barry Finn 26 Feb 98 - 08:25 AM
Earl 26 Feb 98 - 12:54 PM
Bill D 26 Feb 98 - 02:42 PM
Joe Offer 26 Feb 98 - 03:49 PM
Dawn 26 Feb 98 - 04:08 PM
Bill D 26 Feb 98 - 04:37 PM
Joe Offer 26 Feb 98 - 04:42 PM
Alex 26 Feb 98 - 07:08 PM
Jerry Friedman 27 Feb 98 - 03:54 PM
Bert 27 Feb 98 - 04:47 PM
Art Thieme 28 Feb 98 - 12:13 AM
Art Thieme 28 Feb 98 - 12:20 AM
Joe Offer 28 Feb 98 - 03:42 AM
Art Thieme 28 Feb 98 - 09:52 AM
Joe Offer 28 Feb 98 - 01:10 PM
Alex 28 Feb 98 - 05:00 PM
Art Thieme 28 Feb 98 - 05:23 PM
Dawn 01 Mar 98 - 12:37 AM
Joe Offer 01 Mar 98 - 01:41 AM
Bill D 01 Mar 98 - 02:44 PM
Dawn 01 Mar 98 - 05:52 PM
Dawn 01 Mar 98 - 05:56 PM
Earl 01 Mar 98 - 05:59 PM
Will 01 Mar 98 - 06:48 PM
Earl 01 Mar 98 - 07:54 PM
Joe Offer 01 Mar 98 - 08:15 PM
Will 01 Mar 98 - 10:03 PM
Bill D 01 Mar 98 - 10:51 PM
Joe Offer 01 Mar 98 - 11:50 PM
Alex 02 Mar 98 - 12:15 AM
Joe Offer 02 Mar 98 - 12:38 AM
Art Thieme 02 Mar 98 - 12:54 AM
Bill D 02 Mar 98 - 12:25 PM
Bill D 02 Mar 98 - 12:30 PM
Dawn 02 Mar 98 - 12:35 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 02 Mar 98 - 08:41 PM
Will 02 Mar 98 - 09:29 PM
Art Thieme 03 Mar 98 - 12:36 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 03 Mar 98 - 08:44 PM
Will 03 Mar 98 - 08:55 PM
Will 03 Mar 98 - 08:57 PM
Art Thieme 04 Mar 98 - 12:46 AM
Bruce O. 04 Mar 98 - 09:19 AM
JIM 26 Apr 99 - 11:24 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 26 Apr 99 - 11:31 AM
Art Thieme 28 Nov 01 - 11:45 PM
GUEST,Doug Henkle 18 Aug 05 - 11:20 AM
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Subject: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 24 Feb 98 - 11:45 PM

Anyone have the lyrics to Steve Goodman's ever more accurate song "The 20th Century's Almost Over". I tried various combinations in the database (including "Linoleum") without success. Does anyone know if there ever was a Steve Goodman songbook published?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From:
Date: 24 Feb 98 - 11:52 PM

Doesn't sound like a folksong I ever heard of.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 12:31 AM

Well, why would you want to display your (anonymous) ignorance?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 12:36 AM

... and another thing, if you've never heard of it, how would you know it didn't SOUND like any song you've ever heard OF.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY IS ALMOST OVER
From: Dale Rose
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 03:03 AM

THE TWENTIETH CENTURY IS ALMOST OVER
As recorded by Steve Goodman on "Say It In Private" (1999)

Back in 1899,
When everybody sang "Auld Lang Syne,"
A hundred years took a long, long time
For every boy and girl,
And now there's only one thing that I'd like to know:
Where did the twentieth century go?
I'd swear it was here just a minute ago,
All over this world. And now—

CHORUS: The twentieth century is almost over,
Almost over, almost over.
The twentieth century is almost over, all over this world,
All over this world, all over this world.
The twentieth century is almost over, all over this world.

Does anyone remember the Great Depression?
I read all about it in True Confession.
I'm sorry I was late for the recording session,
But somebody put me on hold.
Has anybody seen my linoleum floors,
Petroleum jelly, and two world wars?
They got stuck in the revolvin' doors
All over this world. And now—CHORUS

The winter's gettin' colder, summer's gettin' hotter,
Wishin' well's wishin' for another drop o' water,
An' Mother Earth's blushin' 'cause somebody caught her
Makin' love to the Man in the Moon.
Tell me how you gonna keep 'em down on the farm
Now that outer space has lost its charm?
Somebody set off a burglar alarm
And not a moment too soon. Because—CHORUS

Old Father Time has got his toes a-tappin',
Standin' in the window, grumblin' and a-rappin'.
Everybody's waitin' for somethin' to happen.
Tell me if it happens to you.
The Judgment Day is gettin' nearer.
There it is in the rear view mirror.
If you duck down, I could see a little clearer,
All over this world! And now—CHORUS


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 09:55 AM

Mary LaMarca wrote this nearly a year ago:

"Can there be something on the thread list page that specifically says 'Folk Music'? I don't want to get into an argument here again about what folk music is or isn't, but the title 'Mudcat Discussion Forum' doesn't give newcomers any clue that this is mostly a folk-oriented page. Many, many arguments about whether specific requests are appropriate or not would be eliminated if the discussion page actually said SOMETHING about being related to folk music, and cross referenced the DT database ...

Threadiquette: This forum, even with the above-mentioned arguments on the nature of folk music and which songs are appropriate requests, is usually fairly civil. I've noticed a somewhat nasty trend in tone in some threads, though, and have a... request for civility"

I agree Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: an offended regular (not 'anon')
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 11:46 AM

is this the same 'Alex' who plays in a Celtic rock band? I had some comments for you, but decided I'd rather do it by email or private message.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 01:33 PM

Dale, thanks for the lyrics - they become more true as we go along. Wolfgang, lighten up, it's an old joke on the theme "a preposition is a word you don't end a sentence WITH." Offended regular, I am he, you can write to me if you access the band's homepage - use the "add my name to mailing list" option. But, getting back to Mr Anonymous, I'm reminded of the old one about "He don't say much, but when he says something, he don't say much" and I might add, he does it with poor grammar.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From:
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 01:39 PM

Maybe, but its no worse than your stutter. And you seem to have a strange definition of folk music.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Earl
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 02:59 PM

There is a perpetual raging debate over what contitutes folk and that's as it should be. Steve Goodman's music is not traditional but several of his songs are in the database. Until there is a consensus on what folk is, and it is rigidly enforced, I think it is appropriate to discuss any song which is, or may be, in the database.

Offensive language should only be used if you sing it :)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 03:31 PM

Sometimes, it seems like it's such a nasty world we live in. I prefer to leave that nastiness behind when I come here. I never did understand why some people seem to get a thrill out of being hateful. We have a wonderful, warm place here, a gathering of good people. Let's keep it that way.

By the way, there's a great recording of "20th Century" on the first of the three "Highwayman" albums recorded by Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, and Kris Kristofferson. All three albums are classics, I think.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Dale Rose
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 03:47 PM

Oh, good, Earl, you mean if I sing it, it doesn't count? What if I can't sing~~what then?

Seriously now, what I find so absolutely enjoyable here at the Mudcat Cafe (unless you count the bartender's spilling Java all over me in the chat room)is the relatively peaceful relationships between the classes. Here I am, a old time country and string band fanatic (call it hillbilly if you want to), with leanings toward bluegrass, Celtic, "modern" folk, so called "classic" country, western swing, cowboy, Cajun, Tex-Mex, and yes, even traditional folk, and yet I am pretty much accepted for what I am~~one who truly loves music. Whether the music is firmly rooted in tradition, derived from tradition, or just vaguely traditional, it all belongs as far as I can hear. If there is something in the threads that does not interest me, I just don't read it. I have more to say on that topic, but I will save that for another time~~maybe when I have it all sorted out in my own mind first.

I would hate to lose that feeling of comradarie, the shared experiences with others who have that same love of music that I do. Please let us rejoice in our similarities, and respect our differences.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bert
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 04:13 PM

Winston Churchill said something like this...."The use of a preposition at the end of a sentence is something up with which we will not put."


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 04:25 PM

Churchill sounds like a good enough authority for me. Fowler's Modern English Usage agrees. Let's leave a preposition at the end of that sentence. A preposition is a perfectly good word to end a sentence with. An expletive is not. At least, not here, not when it's an attack on another person. We prefer to sing our expletives here. It's so much friendlier.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Earl
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 04:59 PM

Dale, If you can't sing it at least make it rhyme.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: BAZ
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 06:01 PM

I don't understand any of the discussion about prep....whatever they are and I live in the U.K. and used to walk past a statue of Winston every day.
However, folk or not the lyrics seem pretty relevant to me does anyone have a copy of the tune in Midi or ABC. Thanks
BAZ


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 06:20 PM

well....that's one of the very few times I have ever seen Max edit a message...or need to!...*darn...I ended that with a preposition*

Perhaps Alex owes Max a 'thank you' for not leaving it there.... ( I believe Churchill'e line was "That is the sort of arrant nonsense up with which I will not put")


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 11:46 PM

I'd heard the (apocryphal?) Churchill quote as a response to the rule about ending a sentence with a preposition. The way I heard it, he replied, "That is errant pedantry, up with which I shall not put."

This argument reminds me of the story (folktale?) about the youngster, obviously a "newbie," visiting a college campus.

"Excuse me," he asks of a student. "Can you tell me where the library's at?"

The student replies: "Here at [fill in name of institution you hate], we don't end our sentences with prepositions."

The newbie says, "Then let me rephrase my question: Can you tell me where the library's at, Asshole?"

It's an old tale, and I'm reminded of it both by tone of language and the discussion of ending sentences with prepositions.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 11:57 PM

That is the story I was paraphrasing. I did mean it somewhat as a joke but since Mr Anonymous choses to snipe sniffily (this is aliteration) at my definition of "folk" music then I hope he does take it personally. If he also tries to tell us that Steve Goodman was not a folk musician then it is obvious to me that he must also have his head up his ***.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 08:25 AM

Alex, it's seems that is a matter of opinion & personnel preference, see Method's thread. My opinion is Steve is a singer/songwritter (one of the few with great talent) first & a folkie later, sometimes, maybe, once in awhile, depending on the mood he was in the day he wrote a song, but then that's only my thoughts on it. I also realize that I'm extreme on what I feel is traditional, what's folk, what's just accoustic & what's contempory or commerical folk trash. I think I'll finally throw my 2 cents into that other thread. Barry


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Earl
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 12:54 PM

I think the point is not whether or not Steve Goodman is folk but whether Alex should be anonymously berated for looking here for Steve's lyrics. Its not like he was looking for Marilyn Manson.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 02:42 PM

the original comment by 'anon' was hardly 'berating'...it just made a mild point...and I suspect that for something like that, it is probably better to be anonymous...it allows one to share posts in the next thread without the specific tension of having to "talk to that #@%&*! who made remarks about me earlier"... a group as widely diverse as this needs some mechanism to disagree without having personalities be too large a part of it, or having ones hastily chosen words or attempt at humor be mis-understood...it is a real problem in this format to convey 'tone of voice' and body language...lets just be as careful as we can...


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 03:49 PM

I dunno, Bill. I generally don't like the idea of anonymity in a forum like this. The fact that we've come to know each other by name and personality is part of what has formed us into the friendly, lively group that we've become. If somebody here is going to call me a #@%&*!, I think I should be able to know who said it. If I know who the other person is, maybe I can resolve or avoid the problem next time. If we're identified by name, we're also pushed to speak a little more responsibly than we might otherwise, and I think that helps us keep things pleasant here.
So, if I'm against anonymity, I guess I better admit that it wasn't Max who edited out Alex's "asshole." A couple of months back, Max gave a few of us "edit" buttons, and told us to use them as we see fit. Usually, I use mine to delete duplicate messages or correct bad HTML or make links clickable, but I have given in to the temptation to do a little harmless, mystifying mischief on rare occasions. This is the second time I did something that might be called "censorship." The first one was an easy decision - it was a direct, nasty attack on another person, and it has no place here. This situation was a little different, and I'm not sure I made the right decision. I let the message sit for half a day or so, and then I edited it so it wouldn't be there for all time. Within the context of the old (very old) joke Charlie repeated, the "asshole" comment is funny. Out of context, it borders on being hateful - and it certainly didn't add anything to the discussion.
On the other hand, the anonymous comment that brought all this up didn't add anything to the discussion, either. All Alex did by starting the thread was ask for information. People who weren't interested could just as well have avoided the thread altogether. People have put me down on occasion for the same sort of thing, and it hurts. If a request for lyrics is not appropriate to this forum, the question will die a natural death in a day if there are no responses. I'd say the best way to respond to a question about other-than-folk music is to ignore it, or to gently point the person to a place where they can find the information. That's a great way to deal it. If they ask an impertinent question, give them a link to the International Lyrics Server, and whisk them the hell out of here (be sure the link leads them to what they're looking for, or they'll be back.....).
So, anyhow, I thought I ought to make sure that Good Old Max didn't get blamed for my act of censorship. If it wasn't the right decision, I'm sorry. I probably wouldn't do it again in this particular sort of situation, but I'd do it in a heartbeat if it's an unwarranted, personal attack on an individual. Hatefulness has no place here.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Dawn
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 04:08 PM

If there's a site this informational for "singer/songwriters" I'd sure like to know about it. My father (a "purist") and I (a "liberal folkie" with definite singer/songwriter tendencies) often debate about what is or isn't "folk". By his definitions there can never be another folk song written, ever - even if a song is still popular in 500 years- because now we keep track of who WROTE it....I don't call singer/songwriters "folk" singers (and most of them don't like to BE called folk singers) but I've found lyrics here, and I've been impertinent enough to ask for some. Fortunately I haven't been lambasted (yet). This is a great site with such a wealth of musical knowledge between the visitors that it seems a waste to be so specific.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 04:37 PM

I'd like to see Max make his fortune selling his software design so there could be 'sister sites' devoted to the different areas of musical interest! They could be run as independant entities, but each would have links on the opening page to the others. On the WWW, would be only a few seconds to switch to 'singer/songwriter' or 'bluegrass' and those who are total addicts could read them all!(but Dawn's father & I could pick and choose).....I'll even bet that in 10 years or less, there WILL be things like that.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 04:42 PM

I'll bet MAX would like to see Max make his fortune selling his software design. It sure is nice of him to provide all of this for us, free of charge. I suppose we do help him by providing a 'test group' for his inventions - but mostly, we're just recipients of his generosity. Nice guy, isn't he?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 07:08 PM

There are lots of nice people at this site, Max included. Thanks to Dale for pointing me to the Goodman site. I didn't come here with the intention of defining "Folk" music nor would I presume to try. I just like playing it and listening to it (whatever "it is). Unfortuneately there are those among us who dare to try to put everything in little packages and tag them. Why does everything need to be tagged at all? In this instance I very politely (I even said please in the thread heading) for lyrics. What I get is a snippy reply from the anonymous folk police (although come to think of it, maybe all the messages in a folk music forum SHOULD be ANONymous!). It just ticked me off. If it happens again, I expect I will be just as vitriolic in reply.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 27 Feb 98 - 03:54 PM

If Joe edits out Alex's asshole, Alex will have a REAL PROBLEM. (Yes, I saw the quotation marks.) And if Joe ever edits one of my posts without mentioning that he's done so, I'll remind him gently that I once had such privileges in a non-Internet discussion forum, and I noted in the forum whenever I had deleted anything. I think that would be good practice here too.

Some discussion of the Churchill story appears in the alt.english.usage FAQ. Apparently no one knows Churchill's exact words--a fact that will surprise no reader of this forum. Shortly after it there's the "Where's the library at" joke.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bert
Date: 27 Feb 98 - 04:47 PM

Messages always come across more severe than they were intended. So I assume that any message here is meant in good humor.
Just imagine that we are all friends sitting around a bar. You know the kind of occasion where bad language is not offensive but in fact quite funny.

If you read this thread again in that context, then first few exchanges between anon and Alex don't look so bad. I was quite enjoying the exchanges at first.

So don't get upset. We are all friends here.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 12:13 AM

Just an aside: Alex is a fine fellow!! Anybody who had the taste to hire me must be a good guy. As someone once said (not Winston Churchill) Some people have tact & others tell the truth!!

A friend of mine was serving a sentence in prison. One of the other prisoners propositioned him & that started a fight that led to my friend being killed! As W. Churchill might've said, it seems he too ended his sentence with a proposition!!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 12:20 AM

MAX. THANK YOU! Whatever you did (if ya did it) worked just fine! I can now operate normally all over the site!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 03:42 AM

Art, since when did you begin to operate "normally"? Should we start another thread to discuss THAT??? I couldn't resist....
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 09:52 AM

Joe,

Once you get use to it, insanity can be the most normal thing in the world! Art


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 01:10 PM

You're preachin' to the choir, Art. They call me "Crazy Joe."
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 05:00 PM

Well, I got my lyrics, thanked those who had helped and I thought I'd milked as much fun out of this thread as I could and was intending to quietly let it go away, but when someone like Art comes to my defence, how could I resist a final "Nya na nya na nya ya" (polite for F*** You) to my critics. No one ever accused me of having any tact. Art and I also agree that the pun is the noblest form of wit, so there!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 05:23 PM

I'll miss this thread. It's so quiet now I can hear a pun drop!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Dawn
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 12:37 AM

Hey, if I PROVE that Steve Goodman was a FOLKSINGER can we all just be happy and get along? So, first there needs to be confusion about who WROTE a song... most "people" have no clue that Steve Goodman wrote half of what he did because so many other performers made the songs "popular" - even more so than Steve himself. And songs have to go through the "folk process" and get changed....well, John Denver re-wrote part of "City of New Orleans" to put it on one of his albums, so that's covered, too. And I'd bet that at least SOME of Mr. Goodman's material will still be being sung in 100 years (from when it was written, at least), to pick an arbitrary length of time - so, there you have it (if a bit prematurely).

;-)

Gads - if no one can take a joke I'll probably be banned for life.....


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 01:41 AM

Well, Dawn, the only thing I have against Steve Goodman is that he came too soon. I left southeastern Wisconsin in 1970 at the age of 21, and I've been in California most of the time since then. It was just after that the Steve became known. My little brothers got to see him all the time, and I never did. My evil capitalistic brother was a booking agent, and he spent one memorable evening with Kris Kristofferson, Steve Goodman, and a bottle of Wild Turkey. And I missed it all. He sure was good.
And I think he was a folksinger.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 02:44 PM

William James, the American philosopher, was once asked to briefly explain his 'pragmitism' philosophy..so he told the story of being out with some men hunting, and came back to camp to find them watching a squirrel on a tree, and walking round & round the tree trying to see the squirrel....and arguing about whether they were walking around the squirrel or not, since the squirrel always was keeping the tree between himself and them, and thus always facing them. According to W. James, he quickly settled the argument by pointing out that it just depended on their personal definition of 'around', and that it wasn't really important or possible to decide.....and that was a 'pragmatic' answer.

So...Steve Goodman? he was a singer...he was a songwriter....his songs were pretty nice. Some of us want the 'title' of 'folksong' to be delayed until certain tests are met, and some want to apply it wholesale to anything which they like to hear or sing..My own view is that pragmitism is a cop-out, but James would just say that my attitude is itself an example of pragmatic definition..so *shrug*...whatta ya' gonna do?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Dawn
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 05:52 PM

Play some music - and I don't care what you call it.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Dawn
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 05:56 PM

And, Joe, I would also add that he DIED too soon.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Earl
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 05:59 PM

Here's another pragmatic point of view. If I want to buy a Steve Goodman album I have to go to the folk section. It doesn't matter whether or not I think it belongs there.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Will
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 06:48 PM

Gawd, another one of these folking holey wars!

How about, "its folk music if anyone you think is folk likes it"?

Or, "its folk if you can sing it without a synthesizer in the background"?

Or, "its folk if you can imagine June Tabor singing it"?

Or, "its folk if you can transcribe it into midi"?

Or, better yet, "Who cares, just sing it"?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Earl
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 07:54 PM

I hope my comment didn't sound nasty or sarcastic (especially not in this thread :) I just think the use of the word "folk" is beyond anyone's control.

About a year ago I read where the record industry was trying to introduce a category called "Americana" which would include singer/songwriters, "new country", roots-based rock, and (by some strange record company logic) contemorary Irish. My first thought was "dumb idea" but this is all music that ends up in the folk bins and the artist themselves are not happy about it. Maybe if it is successful, folk can go back to being folk.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 08:15 PM

Well, Will, I think some of us who like music that isn't purely traditional still feel like second-class citizens around here. We don't get blasted with long tirades like we used to, but our discussion of songs like those of Steve Goodman is still viewed in a condescending manner; and then we get the feeling that if we MUST talk about Steve Goodman, we should at least be circumspect and apologetic about it. I cringe every time somebody wishes Elsie would come back, because Elsie would self-righteously jump all over anybody who dared to post a message that didn't fit her definition of folk music. She went after me many times, and I'm still a bit shellshocked.
My thinking is that if we say we like folk music, whatever our definition of folk music is, then we should be able to feel at home here. If we call ourselves folkies and we're here and we want to talk about a song, no matter what that song might be, we shouldn't have to go elsewhere. Alex was right to get angry. He asked for information about a song, and nobody should have rudely put him down for that. I think this forum is much nicer when NOBODY is excluded. Generally, it is that way, but sometimes we have to gripe a bit when the excluders get nasty.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Will
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 10:03 PM

Joe, I agree. Completely. Folk music is whatever music folk like to sing and listen to. I just think it's largely a waste of time to argue about what's folk and what isn't and what music it's ok for folk to ask about and what music is out of limits. Quite selfishly, I would rather that we spend our time talking about music, rather than defending our right to talk about music. Maybe if we just ignore the Elsie-be's they'll sink back into the folklore?

On the other hand, of course, I will defend your right to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about (doesn't that paraphrase something some American said sometime about something?)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 10:51 PM

Joe, since memories are often fallible, I went back & looked and found this (part of your reply in an infamous thread. you & I and Elsie and some others seemed to be closer then than some of us are now!)....I think I will re-read that whole thread...

Subject: RE: What is a Folk Song? From: Joe Offer Date: 19-Jul-97 - 03:33 AM

I can't believe I'm saying this, but after reading all of these messages, I have to admit that Elsie and the purists have made a good point. What changed my mind is a look at the schedule of our local "folk" club, the Palms Playhouse in Davis, CA. I used to go to the Palms once a month or more, but now it's more like twice a year. The reason: most of the performers have the moniker "singer-songwriter," after their name. The more traditional performers have been squeezed out, to a great degree.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 11:50 PM

Well, Bill, I suppose the noble thing would be for me to concede, but that would be a tad out of character for me....
The situation is a little different here. If the singer-songwriters crowd the traditional performers out of the clubs, that's a real problem. If somebody posts a request here for a Steve Goodman song, it doesn't inconvenience the purists in the least - especially if they post it in a thread like this that clearly identifies the song. I've loved what I call "folk music" since the 1950's, and I thought it was really great when I found a forum like this. How do you think I feel, or how do you think Alex felt, when we post a request for information about a song that we think of as folk music, and somebody jumps on us just for asking the question? It hurts a lot.
All the discussion of what is and what is not traditional is just fine. We can learn a lot from that sort of discussion. I think all of us would agree that it is essential that we do all that we can to preserve and promote traditional music. On the other hand, there are a good number of us here who love both traditional music and the music of the Weavers and Seegers and Guthries and Goodman and Prine and Greg Brown, and maybe even Peter, Paul and Mary and the New Christy Minstrels and the Kingston Trio. We would like to discuss this music without having to worry about somebody questioning whether our discussion is appropriate.
Of course, Bill, I don't know why I'm addressing this to you. I don't think I've ever seen you address a nasty word to anybody. Still, the second message in this thread is typical of messages that are common around here, and I think that kind of thing doesn't accomplish anything but make people feel bad.
'nuff said.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Alex
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:15 AM

I said I was going to quit but it occurred to me that I didn't ever get part two of my question answered .... say, does anyone know if there ever was a Steve Goodman Songbook in published form?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:38 AM

Let's see what I can find in the way of Steve Goodman links, Alex:
The Steve Goodman Listening Room

The Steve Goodman Scrapbook

Who Was Steve Goodman?

The Steve Goodman Bibliography

Well, I could give you "Steve Goodman's Wacky World," but it's the wrong Steve Goodman. I see in the bibliography that Buddah published a Steve Goodman songbook in 1973. I'll bet it's out of print.

And for the Mother of All Steve Goodman Pages, Click Here.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:54 AM

Who is June Tabor???


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:25 PM

Joe, I **hope** none of my occasionally argumentative words have appeared 'nasty' to anyone...and I certainly wasn't asking (or expecting) you to 'concede' to anything...I was just noting that, when we have aired a lot of the issues, we find many areas of agreement...and if we were all in the same room, talking and singing, we would probably get along pretty well most of the time.

I have a genuine concern that the same process that you refer to in the clubs, where the 'old' stuff is gradually overwhelmed by the 'new & different' stuff will eventually make even this forum a sea of singer-songwriter,pop-commercial stuff with the 'purist' stuff lost in the shuffle. Am I too paranoid? Perhaps I am--time will tell.

**Re-stating my disclaimer**...purist, traditional, old,etc. music is NOT the only thing I like..I sing and play and listen to many things which even I know are not folk/trad....I just want to be able to find it when I want it....much as environmentalists want to preserve 'natural' ecological areas so our grandchildren don't have to go to a few specialized zoos or arboretums to understand what once existed in the wild.

I know that old-growth forest and herds of buffalo will never again be the 'norm', just as groups of friends making up songs & tunes just for fun will never be the 'norm' again...partly because we no longer 'need' that to have music and express feelings...we can go buy something that says something about what we feel or about our society---except that the tendency is then to allow the 'store-bought' songs to do a lot of the defining of trends and feelings...and I really think there is a difference between the way it works now and the way it used to...so I keep on trying to keep those differences clear in my mind.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:30 PM

oh...and June Tabor was a young woman who did a lot of quite traditional songs (I have a couple of 1976-77 records she made)...except that she had a lot of synthesizer and drums...etc., mixed with traditional instruments, as backup...interesting, but not quite my cup of tea...


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Dawn
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:35 PM

Alex-

I was just at my favorite music store getting new tuning pegs put on my guitar and inquired about Steve Goodman books. There is nothing in print at this time - and to their knowledge, never was - at least as a Steve Goodman collection. I didn't take the time to check in their encyclopedia of printed music for individual song titles that may be in anthologies of "folk music" - ;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 08:41 PM

I don't think the folk who learned folk by ear really cared about the song's history, if they liked it. Most of the old people I knew just sang songs they liked, many of which were folk songs, many of which were not.

Besides, someone, somewhere, had to write the original version of the folk song. They didn't appear like mist out of a bog. Some Elizabethan or Georgian Steve Goodman was behind them.

(That's not to say that there isn't a great value in finding the ur-version, or Q-version, whatever you may call it, usually to clear up corruptions and nonsense in the lyrics of versions passed down from singer to singer. In two hundred years time someone might be trying to find the original version of a Steve Goodman song.)

Look at Finnegan's Wake, discussed here on another thread. How old can that be? Old enough for James Joyce to know of it but I'd be surprised if it is older than the nineteenth century.

I didn't know that comments here could be censored. How many people possess this power, and what criteria are used to determine what should or should not be exposed to view? We should have a TOS, like AOL does, for guidance. Does this mean no more threads on naughty children's songs? And what if someone posted the non-PC version of Congo River? Censorship is always a slippery slope. I'd rather risk being offended.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Will
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 09:29 PM

Art, June Tabor is a British singer, still recording as far as I know and certainly still singing. Perhaps not so young, but only the dead stay that way. She has recorded several CDs of her own, plus at least two "Silly Sisters" recordings with Maddy Prior of Steeleye Span and one CD with the Oyster Band. I quite like her voice and the music. I also like the musical support, which ranges from a capella to pretty much everything across the board.

I threw in the reference earlier because I can imagine her singing and recording a wide range.

As you would expect, there a bunch of web pages with information about her. The following is one excerpt.

from: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dave_Smith_6/junetabo.htm (The opinions expressed are those of the author of the page).

June Tabor is often referred to as the leading voice in British Folk music, but, in reality, her tremendously powerful artistry cannot be confined by that definition. Her resonant, expressive contralto and intelligent approach to song interpretation has taken her beyond a repertoire restricted by regional or national heritage. She has created for herself a role of song interpreter that has more in common with the popular and art traditions of Germany (and thus singers such as Lotte Lenya, Ute Lemper and Dagmar Krause).


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 12:36 AM

Sorry folks, Guess I sure should know of her. I'm from another era me thinks. Bert Lloyd (A.L.) & Ewan are still the top Brit. voices to this old folkie. Lou Killen too. Art


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 08:44 PM

Art, "Blow Boys Blow" by Lloyd and McColl is out on CD. And what's nice about this re-released old trad stuff is it is so cheap. (Same with a lot of old Louis Armstrong stuff). I think I paid eight or ten bucks Canadian for my copy, which is what I was paying for LP's in the early eighties.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Will
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 08:55 PM

And there is a nice recent CD of MacColl and Peggy Seegar from the BBC (Folk on 2). Got it at my library, too.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Will
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 08:57 PM

My last post about Folk on 2 gave me the answer, I think. It's folk if the BBC or the CBC says it is.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Mar 98 - 12:46 AM

Talked to Peggy recently. She's living in the states now. Sent her new CD here: NEVER heard her sound better! Great hard-hitting topics presented in a very new way for her. She was shrill to my ears previously---this much mellower> Title of her new CD is PEGGY SEEGER----AN ODD COLLECTION (is on Rounder) Check it out!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Bruce O.
Date: 04 Mar 98 - 09:19 AM

Peggy also has a home page on the internet. If I remember correctly it's www.peggyseeger.com


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Subject: 20TH CENTURY
From: JIM
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 11:24 AM

looking for song about the 20th century is almost over which is also the chorus. I think Sam Goodman wrote it


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Subject: RE: 20TH CENTURY
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 26 Apr 99 - 11:31 AM

It may be in the DT but I couldn't find it. Here's the version I know:

THE TWENTIETH CENTURY IS ALMOST OVER
(Steve Goodman)

Back in 1899, when everyone was singing "Auld Lang Syne",
A century took a long, long time for every boy and girl.
Now there's just one thing I'd like to know, Where did the 20th century go?
I'd swear it was here just a minute ago. All over this world.

(Chorus:) And the 20th century is almost over, almost over, almost over,
The 20th century is almost over, all over this world,
All over this world, all over this world.
The 20th century is almost over, all over this world.

Does anyone remember the Great Depression? I read all about it in True Confessions,
Sorry I was late for the recording sessions, but somebody put me on hold.
Has anybody seen my linoleum floors, petroleum jelly and two world wars.
The got stuck in the revolving doors, All over this world. CHORUS

Winters getting cooler, summer's getting hotter,
wishing well's wishing for another drop of water,
Mother Earth's blushing 'cause somebody caught her
Making love with the man in the moon.
How you gonna keep 'em down on the farm, Now that outer space has lost its charm.
Somebody set off the burglar alarm, And not a moment too soon. CHORUS

Old Father Time has got his toes a tappin', Standin' in the window grumblin and a rappin',
Everybody's waiting for something to happen, Tell me if it happens to you,
The Judgment Day is getting nearer, there it is in the rear view mirror.
If you duck down, I could see a little clearer, All over this world. CHORUS


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Subject: RE: Lyrics please:20th Century's Almost Over
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:45 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 20th Century Is Almost Over (S Goodma
From: GUEST,Doug Henkle
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 11:20 AM

>Date: 02 Mar 98 - 12:38 AM
>From: Joe Offer
>...
>And for the Mother of All Steve Goodman Pages, Click Here.

    My old index page for Steve Goodman referenced above,
   (http://www.execpc.com/~henkle/fbindex/g/goodman_steve.html)
moved on 7-04-2000 to,
   http://www.folklib.net/index/g/goodman_steve.shtml
________________________________________________
Doug Henkle - henkle@pobox.com
P.O. Box 1447, Oshkosh, WI 54903-1447

http://www.folklib.net/
   FolkLib Index: A Library of Folk Music Links

http://www.folklib.net/index/wi/
   FolkLib Index - Wisconsin Music Site Map
   (everything related to Wisconsin Music and Musicians)
    Link updated. Thanks, Doug.
    -Joe Offer-


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