BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:59 PM

well...murray...the size of your ego has once more astounded me....it amazes me that you can get through the door with that head of yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:08 PM

Oh dear - now we have happy campers on both sides of this issue -

As a Platoon Sgt. I'd say to the young men "On line assault left!" And they would turn left and charge - shooting at anything in their path.

As I grow older I imagine me and my buddies saying - "Now just a minute there Sarg - couldn't we get the Air Force to come and soften them up a bit? I also happen to know there is an artillery unit doing nothing somewhere that could place some heat on this for us. Those artillery guys don't do squat anyhow. Leave it to us Legs to do all the frickin work and get our asses shot off. You know Sarg - until those lazy assholes get with the program we are going to wait here and make sure those bad guys don't try to escape this way."

Heh heh heh

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:35 PM

Well, Murray, to balance out your very interesting theory - I've also read that one of the three men who had the balls to take action against the hijackers, causing that plane to crash in Pennsylvania, was gay!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:51 PM

Not me and McGrath, GUEST!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Fiver
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:48 PM

Why do you think you'll ever get a "satisfactory answer" as to why these guys did this? Beyond eating, sleeping, and you know what, it is pretty hard to figure why anyone does anything--

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:40 PM

I think our unnamed guest is correct in much of what he or she says. The age of conscription does indeed tend to be fairly young, but I don't think it's primarily because of the susceptibility of young minds to brainwashing. Young men (I'm not being sexist here, but most soldiers are men) are more physically fit that old men. There's a lot an 18-year-old can do on a battlefield that a 43-year-old like me would have trouble with, even if I were convinced (through logic or brainwashing) of the correctness of the endeavor.

As for the married vs. single question, it doesn't only apply to suicide missions, but to any mission where the individual will be put in harm's way. Those of us with wives and children tend to be more risk-averse than young single men. This is pretty well established and recognized in military circles, and I believe there are rules in place in a lot of militaries that prohibit membership in high-risk commando units by married men.

Don't bogart that joint, Spaw; pass it over to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:27 PM

I'm with the consensus on this one; no offense intended, Murray, but this is one of the more ludicrous theories I've heard about the 9/11 attacks. I don't know whether all, some or none of the hijackers were gay, but I don't think it really makes a damn bit of difference. It certainly doesn't seem to me that there is any reason to believe that homosexuality was a motivating factor.

Murray, I believe you when you say that your intentions aren't homophobic. But the theory, taken to its logical conclusion, would tend to suggest that homosexuals are more likely to engage in acts of mass murder/suicide than heterosexuals. Given that, I would not advance a theory like this without a MUCH stronger basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:21 PM

Guest Steve, I wasn't suggesting that all military minds think like the 9/11 hijackers. I was stating a well known fact: the age of conscription is always very young for a number of well known reasons, including the fact that young minds are more easily brainwashed/"trained" than older ones. As we mature, we begin to question the infallibility authoritary figures try to cloak themselves in, and to function more according to our own personal moral compasses, and less according to those of our parents and other social, cultural, and religious authority figures.

I maintain that we do have instances in Western culture of martyrdom for the cause which resonate with those "ideals" in warrior societies around the world. Including the present day US and UK armed forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:53 PM

Ah hell Doug, you're not thinking about it! You're only giving in to McGrath because you're French.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:50 PM

Murray: A pretty far-out theory, I think.

An article in today's USA Today reports that a new study performed by a Cornell University psychologist refutes the finds of earlier studies that reported that Gay teens suicide tries were far greater than hetrosexual teens. The followin points were made: 1. More than half of reported suicide attempts turned out to be "thinking about it" rather than trying anything.

2. Nearly all research on the topic has drawn teens from support grooups or shelters, where the most troubled gather, and taken at face value their claims of suicide attempts.

There's more.

I think those guys hit the WTC because they were Islamic religious fanatics. McGrath has this one right, I think.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:47 PM

How about "You're Gay and I'm Not Pleased?"

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:42 PM

Peg: You're right; I contradicted myself! My impression, though, is that if the Taliban terrorist was willing to risk sending a farewell letter from the US to his girlfriend in Germany, passion for her must have clouded his better judgment (since he exposed her identity and location!).

McGrath: There was a cockpit recording from one of the jets (I forget which) wherein a Taliban terrorist was making a false announcement to passengers that they would be landing somewhere... I wish I could remember the exact quote. Can anyone provide it?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:38 PM

"I'm OK; You're Not"

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: marty D
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:37 PM

Keep in mind that statistics have shown that 99% of prison inmates under 5'8" will engage in homosexual behaviour if their cell-mate is over 6' tall and in a romantic mood. The other 1% weren't available to fill in the forms.

marty

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:33 PM

But what would you call it? "Chicken Crap for the Soles"???

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:32 PM

I'm really confused - I thought the lead line asked if the hijackers were gay. Gay being Happy and Content? Perhaps my definition is anachronistic but to pluralise the term would, to me, imply homosexuality.

So if they were happy and content it would further set the field in motion for the theory that flying a plane into a building was a thing that would permit contentment with the situation. Meaning that they were happy campers and heading for the afterlife with blessings from their God.

It is some really good stuff Spaw - too bad you don't get any -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:28 PM

Murray - This has the makings of a best seller. Turn this thread into 12 Chapters and I will be reading a review in the NY Times Review of Books. Good Luck, Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:20 PM

Well Mac, I can see how they probably weren't too happy about not eating.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:14 PM

Most hijackings have involved diverting a plane to another airfield somewhere, either as a way of getting there for the hijackers (eg "take me to Havana", or Miami), or as some kind of bargaining process, with the plane and the passengers as hostages.

The idea of using a hijacked plane as a guided missile doesn't seem to have come up before September 11th. There could well have been advantages if the people who had the job of keeping the passengers under control thought that this was just a normal hijacking. If you are telling people to keep quiet, and reassuring them that if they keep quiet they'll be all right, you are much more likely to be convincing if you actually believe that to be true.

If they were working on a need-to-know basis, the only people who needed to know about the actual destination of the planes would have been the pilots.

Perhaps Murray Macleod thinks the IRA hunger strikers were probably gay?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: mousethief
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:59 AM

harpgirl, your post reminds me of the thing that Bob Bennett puts in his signature:

As children we were taught that sex is dirty and filthy and sinful and wrong, and should be saved for the one we love the most. No wonder we're so messed up!

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: harpgirl
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:53 AM

Murray , you are being most provocative, but I do respect your desire to start a controversial thread. If we do not as a group devolve into flaming we will have demonstrated some more intellectual evolution as a species, at least here at Mudcat!!!! I might point out that if they wanted to be homosexual and not die they could just live in this country and be offered a little more freedom than in Islamic countries.

The most powerful motivator is most likely their willingness to die for Islam. This is cultivated by the segregation and brainwashing of male children in Islam, not by homosexuality, and the implicit and explicit notions that women are inferior, unclean, temptresses, unwothy of education, etc. The whole cultural belief system about males and females is sick!!!!! If anything, much of the homosexuality to be discovered in these Islamic countries is probably the result of cultural and religious practices.

We don't really know why about ten percent of our species is homosexual despite the fact that since their reproductive rate is lower, logically as a behavior it might disappear. Perhaps it allows heterosexual behavior to persist as dominant behavior from a natural selection point of view, that is, it is in support of heterosexual reproduction. With that hypothesis, if you are straight you should thank a gay person!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:40 AM

I personally can see NO link to what happened on september 11th and gays? I am hearing you say that gays commit suicide 'more' than other groups in society. But stop and think what your saying. When you commit suicide your purpose is to kill YOURSELF as you are DESPERATE. Would you really want to plan it for 10 or more years?

If you wanted to commit suicide because you may be 'gay' you would not link yourself to one of the biggest terrorist organisations and drive a plane full of people into the twin towers, in a HIGHLY PLANNED coreographed plan to hit the twin towers. You would probably jump of a bridge or crash your car, wouldn't you?

Obiouly know one knows if they were or weren't but at the end of the day does it REALLY matter. You say it was not a hoemophobic post but the post is in essence having a dig at gay people seeing and questioning that to be gay may be a reason why they did it. gay people are a vulnerable minority in society that alreay suffer from our society. The muslims are already suffereing from racial abuse linked to the war, LETS NOT ADD ANOTHER GROUP TO THAT LIST.

un-named

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:38 AM

I heard somewhere that Elvis works in a petrol station in Bradford, he was fed up of being famous and wanted a quiet life.This must be true because it was in The Sun, a very well respected brittish newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:32 AM

Well Bill, I see Murray has already sent you some of that shit he's smokin'........and I even asked first! can you spare maybe a bowl full?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:25 AM

The real lure of theories like this is that it is easy to make them internally consistent,,,,you adopt one false premise, and anything follows.

David Hume had this amazing philosophical treatise that had a form of solipism at it's core, but in a small aside in some footnote, he once admitted that he found it difficult to treat his own thesis seriously in daily life......Gay terrorists is even easier to posit and accept, but suffers from the same logical flaw as Hume was contending with..**unless** we get some corroborating evidence that it played some part in the lives of 'some' of the hijackers.

Theories are starting places for investigating, not for 'believing'.

Now, let me outline for you my thesis that Microsoft is just a front for the Tri-Lateral Commission, and is supported by Aliens which have collected genetic material from Elvis and Marilyn Monroe and is planning to clone them and use the wilds of Afganistan as their base for world domination,,,

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Guessed
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:24 AM

I question the 10% figure Murray
It is reckoned that figure is nearly true of London (anecdotal but which suburbs?). But then so it is with average IQ. It is higher in London. The figures get skewed by the halo effect. Head offices and theatres (& media) abound in capital cities which explains some of the skewed figures. I have seen figures for homosexuality %'s for UK as a whole and it is a lot less than 10% even allowing for parochialism and an obvious wish for anonymity. Culture will only play a small part in it.
some terrorist being gay? statistically is inevitable.
California would fit the bill on most counts, it is the film capital and silicon valley IS because of the brains coagulating there.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve (still not ranger)
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:19 AM

In response to SharonA,

according to Abu Iyad, the men were neither ordered nor forced to marry. If they had been, the experiment would not have worked; being forced to live a lie with a family one did not love would still not constitute being given something to live for. And it is precisely because these men would not follow every order Arafat or Iyad gave that Iyad needed to marry them off; otherwise, a simple command of "don't commit any more violence" would have sufficed. Thus, ordering them to marry would not have worked.

It is true, of course, that gay men have been known to marry and have kids. But my point was that, since there was a 100% marriage rate among these guys, it's unlikely that they were predominantly gay. After all, most gay men do not get married and have kids. However, here I will admit ignorance of Palestinian culture; it may be that there, most gay men do marry and have kids.

My point was simply this: the terrorists being unmarried men was probably more a function of the ways in which terrorists are recruited than of their sexual orientation. There is simply no evidence that they were gay, and some evidence (as SharonA points out) that at least one of them was not.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:07 AM

Using your 10% theory, I guess that means that 10% of Mudcatters are gay, too. Or are we talking about the other people?

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Peg
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:38 AM

I can't agree that the fact that some guy wrote a letter to his sweetheart automatically makes him heterosexual; see comments above that there are plenty of homosexuals who marry women and father children.

I do agree the original thesis is homophobic...and faulty for the reasons many others reiterate here. The desire to kill oneself being more prevalent among gays (ifindeed this is true) does NOT explain the willingness of these men to kill thousands of others in their quest to end their own lives.

I also agree that just saying you are not being homophobic, does not mean you are not being homophobic...anymore than writing a letter to your sweetheart unequivocally makes you a straight man...

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:36 AM

I don't think this is a good theory at all, just because you don't want to have sex with a prostitute does not mean that you are gay.Murray your paragraph about the other terrorists not taking parachutes does not make sense at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:32 AM

"And until someone comes up with evidence to the contrary, I will believe that my hypothesis is valid. "

"Pluritas non est ponenda sine necessitate"
William of Occam

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:23 AM

Hi Murray,

I don't know if T.E Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" is any indication of the prevalence of homosexuality in the muslim world. For one thing the experiences described in the book were confined to the Arabian Peninsula during WWI, Also the author's descriptions of the homosexuals in the book was so flowery as to indicate, to me at least, that he was biased in their favour.

Interestingly, I have often thought of "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" since September 11, I read it earlier this year. I've been trying to reconcile the values of the Arab "Freedom fighters" of the book with those of Al Qaida. I also wondered if the Saud family were the heroes that Lawrence made them out to be. Certianly their political savy has carried on to this day.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:22 AM

Steve (not Ranger) says: "One more thing: without exception, the Black September members fell in love and married. It is reasonable to assume, then, that most of them were not gay."

Hold on thar! Gay men have been known to marry and have children, and even to repress their desire to have sex with other men, so I think it's a faulty assumption to say that "most" of these men weren't gay. I don't know if it's possible for a totally homosexual man to fall in love with a woman, but I also take issue with your assumption that these men fell in love at all. All we know is that they chose female partners and married them. My question is: did they do this of their own free will (which might indicate that at least some of them may have "fallen in love"), or were they ordered to do so, regardless of their sexual orientation?


Murray: I agree with those who say that your theory is no more or less posible than any other. Indeed, suicide was not the primary goal of the 9/11 mission, and I suspect the terrorists were driven more by their hatred for America than by the desire for a place in their Paradise for gays.

We do know that at least one of the hijackers was heterosexual, from the farewell letter he wrote to his girlfriend in Germany that was intercepted by the government due to a mistake in the address. This also contradicts the assumption that all of the hijackers were romantically unattached.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:43 AM

Murray's speculation may be a bit far-fetched, but I am unwilling to brand him a homophobe on that basis. Many a wild speculation has led to fruitful (so to speak) research. To wit:

Sodomy and the Pirate Tradition : English Sea Rovers in the Seventeenth-Century Caribbean (The link goes to amazon.com) According to one reviewer, "If you've ever wondered exactly what to do with a drunken sailor, this is the book for you." And here is the NYU Press advertisement for this book, and here is a review of same.

By the way, following up links from those pages led to some fascinating stuff, for example:

Islamic Homosexualities : Culture, History, and Literature

Sex Longing & Not Belonging : A Gay Muslim's Quest for Love & Meaning

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:23 AM

I repectfully disagree with Guest on this. "The military minds" of many of the current and former UK & US soldiers on mudcat would never have conceived of bombing something like the WTC. I don't think you can call OBL's mind a military one in any case.

Granted, we don't have to jump on the bandwagon to support current actions, but don't demonize everyone who's ever fought in a war, either...

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:14 AM

I guess the hijackers (young, single men willing to die for a cause) have a lot in common with the young, single men willing to die for a cause currently serving in the US armed forces.

There is a reason why conscription laws require the military only take young, impressionable men (preferably under 20 and right out of high school). They are easier to convince that the cause is actually worth dying for, when it usually isn't.

Buy a clue, folks. Military minds all think alike, be they American, Arab, or any other nationality or religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Ohmygawd
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:02 AM

You do seem to have some deep seated sexual identity problems Murray.

First the "idea" that everyone should identify themselves by gender. Then the "idea" that the hijackers were gay because they wouldn't conform to your blinkered idea of red blooded American manhood.

Getting laid before slayed? Are you living in an imaginary Ronald Reagan world of male sexual values circa 1938? I'm sorry, I take that back--it is too insulting to my father and grandfather.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:41 AM

Murray,

I understand what you're saying about marginalization causing higher suicide rates, but I reiterate that these people obviously did not do what they did in order to end their own suffering. To do that, one might jump off the WTC, but not run a plane into it! MY point is that there isn't much evidence that gay men have a higher rate of being violent sociopaths, which would be a better measure of whether they are likely to do something like this. And to suggest that gay men are more likely to be sociopaths, in the absence of evidence, would strike many as homophobic.

I don't understand your point about parachutes. Your own original point seemed to be that the hijackers committed suicide and therefore might come from a high-stress group such as gay men. Kevin's was that among the hijackers, perhaps only the pilots knew what the destination of the planes was. The others may have thought they were going to land somewhere. I agree this isn't THAT likely, but they would not have needed parachutes in this scenario.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:57 AM

The current status of the research with homosexuals and suicide confirms that they represent a high risk group, but the motives, causality and predictability of future self injuries remains as enigmatic as with other identified higher risk populations.

Copied and pasted from here.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:10 AM

Steve, my observations about the suicide rate among gay men (or, more accurately, the incidence of homosexuality among suicides) referred to the climate of opinion in Britain prior to the decriminalization of homosexuality, a climate which finds its parallel in the Islamic world today. Once again, I made no suggestion that in the normal course of events gay men are more likely than straight men to commit suicide. Being gay is not the issue here, being marginalized is.

Kevin writes " it could be that only the actual people who piloted the planes knew it was a suicide hijacking." Since there is no evidence that their carry-on luggage included parachutes, I have some difficulty in believing this.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:26 AM

As you say, it might be true. Or they might have been reptilian aliens from the planet Zog who were beamed off the planes just before they crashed. Covers the known facts just as well.

But I can't see why there's any need to think up fancy explanations. Some people who believe strongly enough in a cause have always been willing to die for it, and normally they've been quite willing to kill for it as well. "Give me liberty or give me death". And having a partner and a family back home is a factor that always makes people less available to volunteer for any kind of suicide mission. (And that would apply regardless of the sex of the partner.)

Actually there was a report that, based on the presence or absence of goodbye notes and such, it could be that only the actual people who piloted the planes knew it was a suicide hijacking. Though of course that might have been some kind of cunning leak by the authorities designed to have some kind of propaganda effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve (not ranger)
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:04 AM

I'm not ranger steve, but I am a member. Some weeks ago I updated my web software, and my cookie vanished with the old stuff.

How would I know about the terrorist world? How would YOU know about homosexuality and suicide rate? I presume in the same way: by reading about it and studying it. I mentioned the article in the Atlantic, which is one place you can go to. Abu Iyad, former head of Black September (Arafat's fanatical fighters), explains that the men in Black September had no real reason to live rather than die: they were young, unmarried, without good jobs or prospects. As soon as they married these men off, they ceased to want to take part in terrorist activity. Iyad even tested them by offering them missions. Wihout exception, they refused.

One more thing: without exception, the Black September members fell in love and married. It is reasonable to assume, then, that most of them were not gay.

If you imagine that Al Quaeda is unaware of the Black September case, fine. But given the way the world of Islamic terror organizations is laid out--with the same people being members of organizations in different countries throughout the Middle East--it's very unlikely. Therefore, this experiment alone is enough to tell Bin Laden that the people he needs to seek out for suicide missions are young, unmarried men.

Once again, the only evidence you've presented is that they're young, unmarried men (which is explained by the above) that they stayed away from American hookers (hardly surprising for Islamic fundamentalist fanatics), and that gay men have a high suicide rate. But this was not primarily suicide, it was primarily genocide. If I wanted to kill myself, I would NOT do it this way, and neither would you, I trust.

Therefore, I just don't see any evidence of homosexuality. As to the remarks being homophobic, it's an open question whether suggesting that something about gay men makes them more likely than straight men to kill 10,000 people is homophobic. I think many people would say it is, regardless of your intentions. I understand that you don't mean to give offense, and I, not being gay, don't personally take offense. But I have plenty of gay friends who would!

And BTW, Kat is right. In many cultures it is taboo to have sex before battle. I do not know what Afghani or Arab customs are in this regard.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:46 AM

Kat, far be it from me to instigate any thread creep, but it has never been my experience that spilling of my seed has caused any diminution of my powers (which are fragile at best, granted)

Au contraire, the early morning seed dispersion has invariably caused a resurgence of vitality which could not have been accomplished ny any other means.

Pace the practitioners of Tantric sex ......

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:26 AM

I always figured I'd spill a lot less seed if I had a bigger container.

anon.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:21 AM

Murray, maybe in the some of the Western world, but not so among some Asian and Native American cultures. Spilling a man's seed before battle can cause a depletion of his power and energy according to some belief systems.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:54 AM

Kat, I am sorry to disillusion you ,but traditionally, it has always been the martial custom to get laid before you get slayed. I have no evidence from the rent boys of Florida, I have to admit, but perhaps I can persuade one of the reporters from the "New Times" to investigate.

Meanwhile, let me reiterate that this is not a honopobic thread, I am postulating a hypothesis which I consider worthy of consideration.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:45 AM

It is well-recognized in the terrorist world that people with wives and kids won't blow themselves up.

First of all, I have to ask if you are Ranger Steve, who is a Mudcat member. If you are then I respect your opinions, I have read your previous postings. If you are not, how would you know about the terrorist world?

Nowhere in my post is there any trace of homophobia, I was trying genuinely to come up with a believable reason for an incomprehensible act.

And until someone comes up with evidence to the contrary, I will believe that my hypothesis is valid.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:45 AM

Well Dan, he is a Scot and now I understand that the Kilt Pin isn't used for holding the kilt together, so perhaps his balls were readily accesible for admiration.........or maybe not...........Or maybe they got a really good gander at them and that's why they committed suicide.

Pass the bong please.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:34 AM

Oops. Just realized that I described Arafat's troops as "former suicide bombers." Of course, I meant the pool of people formerly willing to be used as suicide bombers. No former suicide bomber's around to tell the tale.

Dan--maybe the terrorists admired Murray's balls, too ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:31 AM

As well, do you think there are no gay prostitutes, Murray? Just because they didn't succumb to prossies in FL doesn't mean they were not hetero. Do you seek out prossies because you are, I assume, hetero? No offense intended, just trying to screw with your logic.:-)

Here's another one for you, just as sportpeople are told to lay off the sex before a big event, so do "warriors," in some societies, believe it is best not expend energy that way before a battle.

There are so many other explanations which would be much closer to the truth, IMO, I think Spaw's gotcha on this one...share that joint, eh?