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Help: finding MP3 song files

GUEST,Gary 29 Nov 01 - 02:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 02:14 PM
MMario 29 Nov 01 - 02:18 PM
Maxine 29 Nov 01 - 02:22 PM
mousethief 29 Nov 01 - 02:44 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 02:53 PM
Maxine 29 Nov 01 - 03:10 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 03:23 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 03:28 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 03:33 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 03:35 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 03:45 PM
John MacKenzie 29 Nov 01 - 03:57 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 03:57 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 03:59 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 04:04 PM
MMario 29 Nov 01 - 04:10 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 04:15 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 04:24 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 04:29 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 04:39 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 05:59 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Nov 01 - 06:02 PM
artbrooks 29 Nov 01 - 06:04 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 01 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,Gary 29 Nov 01 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,oddbin@my-deja.com 29 Nov 01 - 07:23 PM
Geoff the Duck 30 Nov 01 - 11:12 AM
53 30 Nov 01 - 01:39 PM
Mark Cohen 30 Nov 01 - 05:54 PM
mousethief 30 Nov 01 - 06:26 PM
cyder_drinker 01 Dec 01 - 09:42 AM
Alice 01 Dec 01 - 10:05 AM
Devilmaster 04 Dec 01 - 09:32 AM
Clinton Hammond 04 Dec 01 - 11:45 AM
Devilmaster 04 Dec 01 - 06:10 PM
Joe Offer 04 Dec 01 - 06:53 PM
53 04 Dec 01 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,different guest 05 Dec 01 - 11:56 AM
Maxine 05 Dec 01 - 03:30 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Dec 01 - 04:04 PM
GUEST,different guest 05 Dec 01 - 04:39 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Dec 01 - 05:28 PM
GUEST,Guest - Roger 06 Dec 01 - 04:51 PM
53 06 Dec 01 - 07:51 PM
Devilmaster 06 Dec 01 - 09:42 PM
Clinton Hammond 07 Dec 01 - 03:34 AM
Mark Cohen 09 Dec 01 - 04:31 PM
GUEST,Aldus 10 Dec 01 - 02:56 PM
Clinton Hammond 10 Dec 01 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,Arkie 10 Dec 01 - 05:33 PM
Devilmaster 17 Dec 01 - 10:16 AM
little john cameron 17 Dec 01 - 10:38 AM
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Subject: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:12 PM

Without spending 30 dollars for a CD with only one song that I want on it, I'm searching all over for some recorded versions of these songs. I have tried the library, flea market LP sales, Gnutella online network, even the 'rec.music.folk' newsgroup but to no avail. Does anyone know of a way I can 'access' individual songs without the expense of the entire box set or rare expensive vinyl disk? Is there some swap newsgroup or FTP site? A 'folkster' software engine?

Any constructive help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:14 PM

Well, given that folk isn't wildly popular, its appearance on peer-to-peer is spotty at best... but I've found some good stuff on Morpheus...

Ouside of that... I haven't had much better luck...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: MMario
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:18 PM

find someone who sings it, get them to go onto paltalk and use a tape recorder....


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Maxine
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:22 PM

I've had lots of luck with Morpheus too. If you can't find it first time, keep looking cos it seems to depend on who's on line at the time you're looking - whether anyone has the song you're after. I finally tracked down 'Alexander Beetle' by Melanie on Morpheus after many months hunting!


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: mousethief
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:44 PM

try www.audiogalaxy.com.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:53 PM

You could just buy it, and allow the artist some sort of living.

Or are you too selfish for that?

You've not even told us what songs you want! A barometer of your lack of intelligence, I suppose...

Get lost!


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Maxine
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:10 PM

Oh dear! Someone's happy....


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:23 PM

Indeed not Maxine,

But if, perhaps, you were a musician, you'd be a little annoyed with someone who wanted your recordings without paying you? No?

That coupled with asking for advice on mp3 files without even mentioning what he wants, the dullard...

Never mind


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:28 PM

gary... ignore the guest idiot...

Keep searchin'... what ever ya want is out there somewhere... And if ya do find something that works really well, come back and share it with us as well eh!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:33 PM

So Clinton,

Can you point me where I might find any tapes/Cds that you've recorded, and download them instead of paying you for them?

I'd be very grateful


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:35 PM

There's an MP3 on my web site you can have, and as soon as I get a CD recorded, I'll be the first to put it into my Morpheus Shared folder...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:45 PM

Thanks Clinton,

You obviously have the resources to allow you to 'play' at being a musician, rather than being worried about the rent each month.

Lucky you, I'm envious!


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:57 PM

And he's got a name too, doesn't that make you even more envious guest??
Jock who prefers his guests to be invited!....Failte


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:57 PM

Yer also full of bull... so take yer mock affrontery, your condescension, and your arrogance and stuff it...

There are 2 sides to this issue... you don't like mp3 sharing? Don't do it, and ask people to not share your music... Don't look down your nose at people who can and do share music...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:59 PM

Clinton,

Just listened to "Mingulay Boat Song" and I think it's pretty good.

My point is this: I sell CDs at gigs. They're not the greatest in the world, but they're far from the worst. B+ I guess.

Lots of (well not lots) people buy these CDs having had a great night. This helps me live. If people knew that they could switch on their computers, and listen to my songs for free the next day, I honestly think I'd sell a lot less.

If that says something about how talented I am, then I can't argue.

With me, it is a matter of whether I can pay the bills or not.

Understand?


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:04 PM

"I honestly think I'd sell a lot less."

I think you're wrong... record sales are at all time highs since the popularity of peer-to-peer file sharing... the mjority of true music fans use peer-to-peer to preview or sample music...

The image of a music geek, sat at the pc way into the night, burning all his favorite music onto stacks of CDs is an invention of paranoids like Metallica...

I suspect that if you offered even a few 'sample' mp3s on yer web site of your cd, you might find that you sell more... It might not even change anything, but I sure doubt if it would hurt your sales...

Ta fer yer comments on Mingulay... I'm actually not very happy with it, but it was a lark... And it give a semblance of sample fo the work I/we do...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: MMario
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:10 PM

hey clinton! all I get is silence...4 plus minutes worth...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:15 PM

Oh ya... I also wanted to make one other point.. that of audience base...

Especially for folkies who don't travel much, peer-to-peer can be a great way to spread yer music to the world...

A personal example if I may...

A few months ago, while ghosting around the net one night after the kinda gig that leaves me to wired to sleep, my ICQ went off as a stranger messaged me saying how much he like the music and was interested in booking us... In my fuzzy state I sorta assumed he was one of the folks I had spoken with that night, looking me up s quick as he could... we talked venue size, price and some small details... Then got around to when and where... turned out he was from New Zealand, and had just hit the mp3 page without really looking to see where we were from... We had a pretty good laugh at the idea of this guy footing our travel bill from Ontario...

But my point is this... What other way would I EVER get my music to that side of the world at this point in my music career?

It coulda been grand!

LOL!!!


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:24 PM

LOL!!

That's the best review of it I've heard so far MMario!

LOL!!!!!

it's buggy... something to do with the way it was encoded, and the server is not the best host these days either, so all I can say at this point is maybe try d.l.ing it again some time later...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:29 PM

Clinton,

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but have a look at:

this page,

this page

this page or

No truth in these?


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:39 PM

Ummm... I'm reminded of something a prof in university told me... you can say anything at all with statistics...

I would like to see a truely unbiased study, that takes a broad look at the thing... they claim that sales are down, could it hve anyting to do with the fact that cd prices are higher than they have any right to be? (Were we not told when they came out that given a few years they would drop to the price of albums??? We sure bought that load of bull, didn't we?!?!?!?!) And "international" cd's are even more costly than that?

I donno... I only know that I've read the exact opposite stats... (of course from the Pro-peer-to-peer side, just as the links above I suspect are mostly fromt he anti side...)

Like I said... it boils down to, you don't like it, don't use it, and ask people not to put your music there... but for people and bands who want to use the service to spread their music around, what's the beef?


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 05:59 PM

Fair comment, Clinton

If you choose to share your music fine.

However, assuming that everyone else wishes to share thier music in this way, without being asked, is wrong.

There is a huge difference, between the old system of 'taping a record for a friend' than the current one of getting anything for nothing.

I don't give a stuff about record companies, but I do care about musicians, including me.

I understand your point, but believe me when I say that mp3's lose me money


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:02 PM

"believe me when I say that mp3's lose me money"

I have a very hard time believing that at all...

but whatever... I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree eh...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:04 PM

Interesting. I just got a new PC, and I now have a CD burner for the first time. I bought 100 CD-R disks for $29.95 (US), with a $5.00 rebate. I think that means they were 25 cents each, retail. What percentage of that $15.00 per CD does the artist get, and how much goes to the producers and various middlemen? I think I prefer to listen to samples on MP3.com and buy the CDs there for $8 each (or less).


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:04 PM

OK, agreed

Wishing you the best in your musical ventures


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 06:29 PM

Geez!!! I didn't mean to rile up the anonymous guest (too angry to share his/her name I guess). I'm not looking to steal his/her income. I'm just trying to find a couple songs.

However, If record companies didn't price their product so high that their profit margins were astronomical, and I had access to every CD ever pressed, and was familiar with every artist who recorded every song and knew before I bought the product what it sounded like, maybe I'd agree with him/her.

Also, some songs I have heard from free sources have allowed me to pursue the artist (if they are still living. some of the stuff I'm looking for is very old) at paying concerts and throught the purchase of their CDs.

By the way. I wonder how ' the anonymous guest' feels about all the Postal workers who will be laid off because of the internet/email revolution, or the photo retouchers who are starving now because of Photoshop, or the authors like Stephen King who can't feed their families because of Public Libraries.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,oddbin@my-deja.com
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 07:23 PM

No one wants to derive musicians of income, but it misses the point. The whole music distribution business robs the musician, and decides what the public are allowed to buy into the bargain. For instance, where can I buy, say, the Nic Jones CD of Noah's Ark Trap? I can't.

Nor can I buy many, many deleted/obscure/old folk LP's on CD. However, they ARE (well, might be) available on mP3 over the net.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 11:12 AM

Hey Clinton - Can I get the same MP3 of four minutes of silence that MMario got?
There are times when I would pay good money for that much quiet!!!!!
This could turn into a real money spinner for Mudcat Funds - How much could Max charge for Three minutes of a Silent Catspaw?????
Quack!!!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: 53
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 01:39 PM

morpheus is a great download site. BOB


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 05:54 PM

Interesting discussion. Bravo to Clinton, for having the patience and forbearance to continue the discussion calmly, and to Guest, for having an open mind and willingness to listen. Too bad those aren't qualities more widely distributed. The issue is a tricky one, and has been discussed here often. I understand Guest's point, but do think that he/she might find advantages to the MP3 process.

I just got RoadRunner and am looking forward to finally accessing some MP3 files (I expect to find artists I like and buy their CDs, for the record--pun unintended!) The Morphius site looks good...but people should know it's Morphius with an "i" and not Morpheus with an "e". Fortunately the "e" site people had the patience and forbearance to include a link to the "i" site.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 06:26 PM

And if you're one of us immoral types who download mp3's (please don't send the ASCAP thugs after me! I bruise very easily!) don't neglect to try audiogalaxy.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 09:42 AM

Also WinMX is a good one.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Alice
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 10:05 AM

Guest Gary, I read through this thread again, and I don't think I saw the names of the songs you are looking for. Can you list them for us? Maybe one of us could sing them for you.

I am an illustrator as well as a singer, and copyright is very important to me. That said, I also believe in being able to record singing my own (not a cover) mp3's of public domain songs and post them to my page at www.mp3.com. There is a review of each file uploaded to mp3.com, and if the staff sees it is under copyright and you don't have a license to use it, they are supposed to block it from going online. Many independent musicians creating their own music are able to reach listeners around the world using that site, and for all its administrative hassles, it is still a great communication tool. You may want to search there for musicians who have recorded the songs you are looking for. Then, send them an email to let them know you appreciate being able to hear what they performed. They may even have their tracks set up as a net CD, so you could pay them a few bucks for their mp3's.

alice


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Devilmaster
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 09:32 AM

Clinton, Geoff the duck wants 3 minutes of silence. Perhaps you should record your talking blues song. And add that to your page. :)

Devilmaster


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:45 AM

I don't have a talking blues song... the one yer thinking of, I stole from Todd Snyder

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Devilmaster
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:10 PM

Six of one, half dozen of the other, mate.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:53 PM

You might try Online Radio Stations

There are some historic folk recordings online - try:
John & Ruby Lomax 1939 Recording Trip
Max Hunter Folk Song Collection

Many performers offer sample MP3 or RealPlayer recordings on their Websites. Oftentimes, you can find a performer by putting www. before the name and .com after - www.debracowan.com will get you to Mudcat's Debra Cowan, for example. Debra and others have samples of their recordings at http://www.efolkmusic.com/.
Let me put in a plug for my friend Dick Holdstock - you'll find samples at his site at http://www.dickholdstock.com.

Hope that helps.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: 53
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:51 PM

it is morpheus with an e. BOB


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,different guest
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 11:56 AM

It's not music sharing, it's music stealing. Many pro folk musicians now have their own labels and belong to no record companies and don't sell through shops. The c.d. sales they get on gigs keeps them on the road and allows them to be full time. They finance the whole thing themselves. No sooner do they get their freedom from the big boys than people set up systems to steal their work. I know..I've found a site with 40 of my tracks on it for free. Folk music is very cheap to attend..the cds subsidise the artists costs. If fans of the music wish it to continue they have to accept some responsibility towards artists who are doing what they are doing to fulfill a minority audiences needs. For part timers and amateurs who do not make a living from the scene their putting up songs for free is their own business.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Maxine
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:30 PM

you're right Bob, it is definately Morpheus with an 'e'


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:04 PM

"I've found a site"

-A- site?!?!?! Just one?!?!?!?! Over the millions of web sites spanning cyberspace?!?!?!?!

Any idea what the odds are of any one person FINDING that site, even through a GOOD search engine?!?!?! Check the hits on that page... more than 10? ;-)

And if it is a SITE they are posted at, if they are uploaded to a server, you have the legal right to sue them to have your mp3s taken off...

Other than that, if say your music is on a peer-to-peer service like morpheus, the best you can do is stop cowering behind the 'guest' moniker and politely ask your fans and everyone else to not share your music...

And then accept that not everyone is gonna do it, but your fans will continue to support you, just like they always have...


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,different guest
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:39 PM

Sorry Clinton, you're a thief and you're defending thieves. Just because it doesn't impact on your life you think it's okay. The moral you preach is if you can't defend it, I'll steal it. I hope you're not mugged someday by someone with the same morality. By typing in my name the site can be accessed in seconds.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:28 PM

Sorry if I find such accusations coming from someone without the stones to post a name capable of holding NO merit what so ever...

The faceless may make what claims they will, with no possibility of disagreement... I could log out and come back claiming to be the king of France, and couldn't NO ONE here prove differently...

Ya wanna be taken as anything more than a blow-hard? Put up or shut up!

Let's see this offending site?!?!

Also, lemme quote, cause you seem to have missed it...

"If it is a SITE they are posted at, if they are uploaded to a server, you have the legal right to sue them to have your mp3s taken off... "


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,Guest - Roger
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 04:51 PM

Since I work for an e-commerce company maybe I can share a couple of thoughts for the musicians trying to sell their CD's after concerts. CD's seem to be a dying fortmat. MP3 is hear to stay. Suggest you contact MP3.com or a similar outlet and sell your music through it. I routinely buy by downloading music from MP3.com. Guess who gets most of the profist his way? Well, it ain't the record companies. This is how music is gonna be sold from now on. An artist has a web page and you can pay and download music directly from the artist. End of story. Except for one small point. With the invention of portable devices like iPOD's and the likes, you can now store 5 - 6 gigabites of music on a hand held portable device. Do you know how musch music that represents? Over 1000 songs. and you can bet the storage capacity will only go up. Like I said, CD's and record companies are dead. LONG LIVE THE ARTIST!


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: 53
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 07:51 PM

hoo-ray for the artists. BOB


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Devilmaster
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 09:42 PM

I really wish it were that easy. That the record labels would go gentle into that good night.

But you and I both know that they won't.

The whole system needs to be revamped. But if the system is making billions of dollars, do you think they want to change what is happening so the artist gets more money?

My own example: I remember Tom Lewis telling me one day, that his older cd's, he can buy them at cost from his producer. I recall Tom saying around 2 dollars cost for each cd. Now he's not a big seller, and if you sold his cd's for 20 bucks, that's 1000 percent markup.

At least Tom gets that. And that is a very special deal. He used to have to pay somewhere in the range of 10 bucks for each of his cd's. Now think about the major recording artists, how many cd's they sell, the markup, and the profit made by the label. And the label is doing the distribution.

Now tell me again that the record labels are dead.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:34 AM

5-6 gigs? Oh ye of little vision... the latest Nomad is a 20 gig beast, capable of storing 4000 songs!

I can't think of 4000 songs I even TOLERATE!

LOL!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 04:31 PM

53 Bob, I don't want to be picky, but check the link above. The online audio club is M-O-R-P-H-I-U-S. And if you try morpheus.com, you will get the following message: We do not create/support file sharing software. If you are looking for Morphius or free MP3 downloads, go to http://www.morphius.com Again, I think that was quite civil of them, because their server is probably getting overloaded with people who don't know that the site they want uses an odd spelling.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 02:56 PM

One of the things that drives me mad about this whole arguement is that I have been stung many times by buyiny expensive cds and finding they were pretty awful..no artists ever offered to refund my money or apologised for turning out shite and expecting me to pay his rent. A cd comes wrapped up..I risk my money buying it. I believe that the artists is under an obligation to present good work..they don't always..so I now download a great deal of music..and pay my own rent.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 03:57 PM

Interesting point Aldus...

The ability to 'sample' a cd through the over packaging would be a wonderful development!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 05:33 PM

Back to the Morpheus - Morphius thing. There are two different sites, both involving MP3s, one with an 'i' and one with an 'e'. Morpheus at musiccity.com is the giant file sharing site.


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: Devilmaster
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:16 AM

Note on sampling CD's

I remember going to some Wal-Mart down south on my way to Mardi Gras in 2000.

They had a neat toy in that if you wanted to listen to clips of cd's they sold, you took the cd, and scanned the cd into a machine just above the music rack. It would then play 30-45 sec samples of the music on the cd.

One hell of an excellent idea. Too bad thats not really more common. Would save me alot of money sometimes. (as I often look for non-mainstream folk, blues, barbershop, etc.)
I can see the logistical nightmare for a big record store though. You'd pretty much need one person working always, making samples of each new album to come into the store. Major pain in the ass.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Help: finding MP3 song files
From: little john cameron
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:38 AM

Excuse me buttin in guys,but if you check my "Guid Listenin" post there is lots of great stuff there.Only for listenin tho as mario says,a tape recorder would be handy.ljc


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Mudcat time: 5 April 1:42 PM EDT

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