slave revolts

Subject: slave revolts
From:
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 12:52 PM

Hi folks--

I'm looking for any folk songs that mention slave revolts or slave uprisings. Especially any songs with mention of Nat Turner or Gabriel Prosser's revolt. Any information, no matter how slight, greatly appreciated. Please send cc: to me via email. [e-mail]

Thanks in advance, -Shawn

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 09:42 AM

we had a thread about slavery in which you might find some material
Wolfgang

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 09:46 AM

...and don't forget to enter
@slave
in the search box (upper right). That brings you quite a few songs too.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 02:56 PM

You might try "Slave Songs Of The U.S." by Allen, Ware & Garrison, pub. 1867 by A Simpson & in 1927 by P Smith, also try "Slave Songs Of The Georgia Sea Islands", pub 1942 by Creative Press.I couldn't find anything refering to outright protest never mind slave uprisings of any kind. I'm sure (though I can't back it up) that like other worksongs of the Afro American experence, protest was tolerated (preaching revolt-not a shot) in the confines of music as long as it helped keep the wheels of work moving. Any real threat was dealt with swiftly & hashly. Turner's revolt of 1832 gave rise to the song "Run Nigger Run" (the Patter-Roller get you), when a restriction to quarter's was instituted & if caught without a pass, all hell followed. There are few songs from U.S. slavery & fewer that deal with the issue of slavery, "Hard Times In Ol Virginna", "Many Thousands Go", "Follow The Drinking Gourd" (slaves wouldn't drink snow {white people's} water & used a vessle that whites wouldn't use-the gourd- also figures as the big dipper, north star, nav. to the north) "All The Pretty Horses" are some that speak, subtlety to mildly on the subject. Word of uprisings (though black sailors) traveled far & fast (black networking was refined, simple & well established), the new Black Goverment in Haiti, the Free slave act in England, the refuge in the North were all well known to the slave, whether or not these were options was slight & less for the child or woman. Some of the recordings of the Georgia Sea Island Singers may be of intrest to you, as well as some of Lomax's Southern Journey collections. Barry

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: dwditty
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 06:26 AM

Oscar Brown, jr., on his album Sin & Soul (now available on CD) hits a nerve with Bid 'Em In. While this does not cover slave revolt it describes the revolting side of the issues at hand.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From:
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 06:54 PM

Leadbelly does one which he is supposed to have learned on a trip to one of the Southern prisons with Lomax. It is not about revolt, but about escape (a popular topic with prisoners.) He recorded it for Moses Ashe as "Ol' Riley" and somewhere else as "Hey Rattler"

You can hear a version on the Smithsonian archive "Where did you sleep last night. (Part 1 of "The Leadbelly Legacy).

The story is that Riley was a slave who sucessfully escaped by walking in the water and thus avoiding being traced by the Bloodhounds.

It starts out:

Ol' Riley walked the water on a long hot summer day.

Rattler is a bloodhound who was known as a "sukey eater" and the "Hey Rattler" is the call for the bloodhound.

The "Hey Rattler" part has a different rythm from the "Riley" part of the song, and I suspect they are two songs about the same subject that he put together.

Murray

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 03 Mar 98 - 10:19 PM

Speaking of Haiti, I've heard that the Haitian revolt of c. 1802 was the only successful slave revolt in history. (I guess the professor who told me that didn't count the Bible as history.) So you might look into Haitian music.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Corinna of California
Date: 04 Mar 98 - 05:22 PM

Along those lines checkout South African music for apartheid tunes

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Mar 98 - 09:42 PM

Murry, Reily walks the water, not only to lose the dog & dogman, but the crossing of a river (some pay the boatman) symbolizes freedom for the convict, once on the other side capture, in the days before hi tech, was less likely. These songs were known in the prison camps as river songs. The work farms or camps were located near the rich river bottoms & were tended by the gangs. Rattler had near super traits, walks logs, trees most anything, can track the devil himself, kills escaping men. Rattler was traditionally the lead dog on the farm, he sets the pace for all the other dogs, much like the lead row or number one con sets the pace for all the others (a place of respect for man & dog). Story was, Reily was fast & the dogman just got a new dog, so Reily was set lose to try out the dog, like Long John, Reily was gone.
Jerry, I believe that the revolt in Haiti, was the only successfull modern "Black" revolt, & became a Mecca as did England & to a lesser degree, the North, in pre Civil War times. Jerry, also keep in mind slaves through out history were treated differently, usually slaves were taken as a prize by a victorious group, in time they'd be freed, was not a matter of race, was not inherited, culture & dignity would be left in tack, the list goes on, some of these may've happened historically but not all. Barry

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: therapon
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 02:58 AM

Barry, it's very interesting what you have to say about the river and the characteristics of the lead hound. Could you refer me to a source for even more information?

By the by, even where slavery was not racially justified or motivated, there were other justifications which did their own incomparable harm. (I don't believe I want to compare slaveries in any qualitative sense. It doesn;t teach us anything and it's invariably in bad taste.) Ancient Greece is often cited, along similar lines to yours, as a land in which slaves were taken as booty and slavery was somehow less ideologically egregious. In fact, Aristotle said that certain people were natural slaves and he placed them in an entirely different category of (semi-)humans. Race, unfortunately, is not the only way to dehumanize.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 10:03 PM

Therapon, Lomax is a great source, esp. his "The Land Where The Blues Began", also Bruce Jackson's "Wake Up Dead Man" & for some very interesting history, pre Civil War, "Black Jacks-Afro American Sailors In The Age Of Sail", I think that's the full title, I loaned out mine so I can't check it out at the moment (author ?), it's just out thought, should be very easy to find. Won't expand on the slave issue, if you care not to. Barry

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: therapon
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 03:45 AM

Thank you, Barry. I would be interested to hear if you disagree with what I said about slavery. All I meant above is that I can't imagine saying that one man's life as a slave wasn't as bad as another man's life. I wouldn't want to end up sounding like I was saying that some slavery was only half-bad, or not truly pernicious.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 10:53 PM

Slavery is ancient, it's has been practiced at one time or another by most, it's as a modern black institution that's different, by shear size, upwards of 60 million taken out of Africa, half that dying enroute, & over 100 million offspring expolited over the following few hundred yrs. Next black slavery coinsides with freedoms won by whites in the areas of serfdom & religious reforms, & the Mameluke Rebellion (last major successfull slave rebelion), of white slaves against Arab slaveholders, ended white slavery world wide forever. There existed a multi-national & multi religious co-op that supported & profited from black slavery. The treatment also differs, historically slaves had rights-not Blacks, churches saw slaves as humans & intervened on their behalf-with Blacks they intervened on behalf of slaveholders, while profiting, slavery was always veiwed as temporary-with Blacks, you know, goverments historically didn't use their power or influence to exploit a racial group for wealth-European & colonial powers enslaved Blacks to develop the New World while colonizing Africa, slaves were normally debtors, POWs or victims of religious persecutions-Blacks, because they were black, slaves were allowed to keep racial identity & dignity, without a stigma of inferiority-with Blacks, not permitted, slaveholding was a symbol of status or wealth-having a black slave afforded even the poorest white, wealth, slavery usually provided 'personal' wealth directly to the slaveholde-black slavery provided wealth for nations, institutions & religions, as it also helped to bring modern capitalism to Europe & the New World while empowering the industrial revolution. It's these differences that engrained so deeply a world wide racial hatred towards Blacks, that in this present day they're still a race that can't quite free itself from it's former bondage. This it were the blues came from, had there been many vicious revolts (as whites), had they been revengefull against their enslavers (as was the American Indian), had they been less willing to accept & more willing to fight & die, perhaps the white world would've been less supportive of slavery. The Afro American work song holds within it's raw beauty the soul of a race that wouldn't die & on whose back was carried the fate of many nations. Barry

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Corinna of California
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 06:45 PM

Very moving soliloquy Barry. I just wish to point out one major discrepency, white slavery has NOT been abolished forever. Particularly the trade of females worldwide. Love slaves for sale. Forced prostitution, mutilation, etc. While this trade is not limited to white females, they tend to have the same status symbol iconisim as owning black slaves did in prior times. Ever notice how the buxom blonde with blue eyes sells every BIG, NEW and BETTER product even to predominately black, hispanic, and asian markets? Is it any wonder why the women abolitionists fought so hard for the rights of slaves? They saw themselves in the plight of the slaves, they were only a step removed as wives or the chattel of their men. Any human being degraded, abused, stripped of identity and self-worth is a slave. The unfortunate circumstance that this would still be happening today just goes to show that enlightenment is a sloooooow process for everyone, black, white, male, female etc..

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 09:05 PM

To add to what Barry said, I've also heard it claimed that slavery of blacks in the Americas was the only slavery in history in which families were separated, including young children sold away from their parents.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Paul Stamler
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 01:44 PM

Just to chime in on an earlier comment, about the professor who said that the revolt in Haiti was the only successful slave revolt in history, and the poster's aside that the professor must not have viewed the Bible as history. Questions of the historical accuracy of Exodus aside, the Hebrews in that book didn't revolt. They up and left, which is a whole different dynamic.
Peace. Paul

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Marco Bargioni
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 04:00 PM

Slavery is bad so dont do it

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Bruce O.
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 04:36 PM

There is a ballad incongruously titled 'Liverpool Town' in Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', II #66, 1979, where a slave ship is taken by the slaves in the 3rd verse, but the the story isn't coherent. The ballad then has the ship go to Africa to get slaves where the crew get into another fight with slaves. The slaves "Blew up our powder and all our men" in the 7th verse, then in the 8th verse the crew? (slaves seems unlikely) are bound to Jamaica.

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: Pete M
Date: 01 Mar 99 - 08:16 PM

A worthy but rather simplistic exhortation Marco.

In fact it is very easy to justify slavery, and especially the institutionalised slavery Barry described both on economic grounds and as being of social benefit to the slaves. After all slaves are treated far better than paid workers, because they are property. As Chomsky has pointed out, all the arguments in favour of institutional slavery are now used practically verbatim to justify monetarism, the economic destruction of countries which dare to aspire to collective responsibility as a style of government, etc.

All you need to do is to be sure that your particular belief system is the only correct one, and then of course you have a moral obligation to see that this system is perpetuated and spread. To me it is ironic that at the very time slavery was being abolioshed throughout Europe due largely to the concept of the dignity of man as espoused by Locke, Voltaire, Rousseau, etc. the working classes were being subjected to ever harsher degradation, servitude, working and living conditions by the rise of industrialisation and capitalism; but that was morally acceptable, as they were "free" to starve rather than work.

As Robeson saw clearly, it doesn't really matter what label you put on it, or what 'system' it flourishees under, it is the exploitation of man by man that is the problem.

Pete M

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 01:28 AM

Right you are, Pete. Slavery is a growth industry, from the maquiladoras of Central America to the prisons of China, wherever Nikes are made, Disney t-shirts and Gap jeans are sewn. Even under the stars and stripes: in Saipan are factories where after their 14 hour workdays, the workers are herded into same-sex dormitories, hetero-hanky-panky being not only forbidden but impossible. --seed

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: ddw in windsor
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 11:43 PM

Shawn,

Interesting discussion you've sparked here, but I was starting to wonder if all of it was helpful in locating songs about slave revolts. Thought I'd jump in with the only story-song I can think of on a similar topic. The problem is, I don't know its origins and have no idea if it came from a black or white tradition or, for that matter, if it's a recently penned thing.

The only version I've ever heard of it is by Willie Nelson and it's called Blackjack County Chain. I didn't check if it's in Cowpie, but if it's not, I could give you the words for it if you'd like.

cheers ddw

Subject: RE: slave revolts
From: ddw in windsor
Date: 02 Mar 99 - 11:54 PM

Shawn,

Just checked Cowpie and the tune is there -- complete with words and chords. It's attributed there to Willie, so it may not be of much interest for anything more than a good, singable song. Hope that didn't send you on a wild goose chase.

ddw