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Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill
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Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill |
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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: CAMBORNE HILL From: BAZ Date: 25 Feb 98 - 05:46 PM CAMBORNE HILL
Goin' up Camborne 'll comin' down,
White stockans, white stockans she wore,
Goin' up Camborne 'll comin' down,
This song conjures up a picture of a horse drawn coach sliding up and down
MIDI file: CAMBHILL.MID Timebase: 480 Tempo: 160 (375000 microsec/crotchet) This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: Barry Finn Date: 26 Feb 98 - 07:55 AM Baz, how close is this tune to Jack Hall & Captain Kidd? I know it's from that family but can't do that midi thing. I have this in Peter Kennedy's 'Folksongs of Britain & Ireland' in Cornish too, do you know if it was origainally in Cornish? The reason for asking is that Kennedy has the tune going back to 1649 from "The Digger's Song", Roy Palmer has the tune for Captain Kidd & Jack Hall as to the tune of "Coming Down" which is in your English chorus of Bryn Cambron, maybe the English version was used fish & than translated to be sung in Cornish later. I would guess you have Kennedy's book, if not , let me know if you want the Cornish version. Barry |
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Feb 98 - 03:48 PM The distinctive meter of "Captain Kidd' and many other ballads is suggestive of some tunes, but not solid evidence for the identity of any one of them. There's till a lot of work to be done getting everything straightened out. The later tune or tunes are known as "Coming down/ Captain Kidd/ Admiral Benbow" and other titles. In the 1567 'Gude and Godlie Ballatis' is "My lufe is lyand sick, send him joy, send him joy" in the same meter, and "All my life, leif me not, leif me not" is close to it. C. M. Simpson in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music' notes lack of solid evidence connecting tunes of various titles. 'The Diggers' Song' is the title of a short article by E. A. White in JEFDSS, IV, 1940, where the song (Gerard Winstanley's?) is given along with a long list of other songs with the same meter. White gives only the 'Pills' version of "Put in all" for a tune. Simpson overlooked the earliest song, 1654, calling for the tune "Sound a charge, Sound a charge" ("Royal news, Royal news/ Touch and go, touch and go" were later titles for it). Simpson, with due regard that his identification may be incorrect, gives for these the tune "Put in all". (I'm a little surprised that I couldn't find this song and tune in DT.) I've been looking for many years for tidbits of data that might clarify what titles can be solidly connected to what tunes, but I've only found two scraps that don't help much.
An earlier copy of the tune "Put in all" than that found by Simpson is in 'Twenty Four new Country Dances for the Year 1708'. This version is a bit different than the later copies. [There are 2 copies of this dance collection in Washington, DC, and none elsewhere. Title page is missing on the Library of Congress copy, and they have misdated it as 1714.] In 'The Battle of Falkirk Garland Printed in the Year MDCCXLVI' is 'An Excellent new Song on the Jacobites and the Opression of the Rebels' 'To the Tune of, Captain Kid' [sic]. The 1st of 13 verses goes: You Jacobites by Name, now give Ear, now give Ear,
Subsequently verses have no relationship to those by Robert Burns.
There is an article by a folklorist on the versions of the tune "Captain Kidd", but I can't find my reference right now.
The apparent original broadside ballad of Captain Kidd is listed as ZN1837 in the index found in the Mudcat Forum links. That for the broadside on the executed chimney sweep "My name it is Jack Hall, chminey sweep, chimney sweep" from which the "'coming down, coming down" burden comes is unknown, but we have Cecil Sharp's traditional version (Songs from Somerset, iv, #86) I suspect the original tune for it was that called "The Sweep" that Thomas D'Urfey used for his song "When Soll to Thetis Pool, save the Queen, save the Queen" in 'Pills to Purge Melancholy', II, 1719.
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Feb 98 - 05:06 PM I should have noted that we don't have the tune "Chimney Sweep" used by D'Urfey. Text only is in Pills, and I've searched high and low for a songbook copy with music, or a single sheet song with music issue, all to no avail. "Captain Kidd" is Laws K35 (in DT), but the earliest tune for it that I can find is that in Helen K. Johnson's 'Our Familiar Songs', 1881. Anyone have an earlier text with music?
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: BAZ Date: 26 Feb 98 - 05:48 PM Barry I'll have to digest the above and come back to you. Thanks for the offer of the Cornish version. We do sing it in Cornish, a little different from Peter Kennedy's version but there is a debate going on down here at the moment trying to more accurately define the language.
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: BAZ Date: 27 Feb 98 - 08:00 PM Barry I can see the family connection to this tune but it's not the same. I looked up Peter Kennedy's 'Folksongs of Britain & Ireland' after reading your message and was suprised to find that almost everything I'd written was in there. But I was using Inglis Gundry's Canow Kernow as my source. The song wasn't written in Cornish but was translated as are nearly all Peter Kennedy's Cornish songs by Talek a Bard of the Cornish Gorsedd. As far as I can establish the only songs surviving that were written in the Cornish language are Ha My Ow Mos a 'three mens song', and a five line rhyme 'A Granken'. The Gwavas MSS. in the British Museum provides us with 3 more songs, 'Delyow Syvy' noted by Edwin Chirgwin in 1698. and 2 Broadside type ballads written by John Tonkin of St.Just in c.1690. The first of these is to a tune 'The Modest Maid of Kent' which unfortunately I cannot find and I'm hoping that if Bruce O' re-reads this thread he may have knowledge of it. If need be I'll post a seperate request. The second ballad does not give a tune but Merv Davey a Current Cornish Bard and player of the Cornish Pipes has suggested a Cornish tune 'Kerthyans Atla'. I will post all of these soon. Most of the above comes from Merv Davey's book Henegan. I met him recently and said that I had seen a copy of his book in a public library and was it still available. He told me no but added 'get it from the library and photocopy it if you want.' I'm glad I did because shortly after it was destroyed and as far as I know Iv'e got the only copy. My aim is to copy the whole book in English and Cornish together with the tunes and post it. Baz. |
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: Bruce O. Date: 01 Mar 98 - 10:50 AM "Modest Maid of Kent" is in my broadside index, ZN1349, and it was sung to "Languishing Swain". C. M. Simpon in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music' #183, 184, discusses the tune at length, (under He that loves best must suffer most) but the upshot is that there are two possibilites, but no solid identification of the original tune. There are folksongs that were originally sung to the tune, also, "Grazer's Daughter/ Betsy was a Beauty fair" (Laws M20) was originally the two part ballad "Love Overthrown + Constancy Lamented" (ZN2523 & ZN46). "Early, early in the spring" (Laws M1) is "The Seaman's Complaint" (ZN2863). Laws P33 was also (the earlier version) to the tune. The broadside ballads cited here all seem to be of 1690 or at most a few years later.
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Subject: RE: LRY ADD Going Up Camborne Hill From: Bruce O. Date: 01 Mar 98 - 12:33 PM I've added LYR ADD: "Put in All" with two ABC's for it, and the earliest copies I've found of "Admiral Benbow" and "Captain Kidd". Basically, we know nothing of the tune that might have been used for the 16th century "Gude and Godlie" ballad. There are several 17th century names that are alternates for the ame tune, but there is no solid connection of them with the earliest tune with their distinctice meter, "Put in all", and we don't have much 18th or 19th century evidence for the "Captain Kidd" tune. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: GUEST Date: 15 Mar 08 - 11:43 AM The lyrics are: Goin' up Camborne 'll comin' down, Goin' up Camborne 'll comin' down The 'osses stood still, The wheels turned aroun' Goin' up Camborne 'll comin' down White stockans, white stockans she wore, White stockans, white stockans she wore, White stockans she wore, White stockans she wore, Goin' up Camborne 'll comin' down I knowed her old father old man I knowed her old father old man I knowed her old man He played in the band Going up Camborne 'll comin' down I had her I had her I did I had her I had her I did I had her I did It cost me a quid Going up Camborne 'll comin' down He heaved in the coal in the steam He heaved in the coal in the steam He heaved in the coal The steam hit the beam Going up Camborne 'll comin' down The 2nd and 4th verse supposedly refer to a lady named Lady de Dunstanville who was not originally from an aristocratic background and the cornish brought her down by reminding her that she couldn't afford new stockings. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: Snuffy Date: 15 Mar 08 - 08:01 PM Poor Betsy she got in the way Poor Betsy she got in the way She got in the way And we found her next day Going up Camborne Hill coming down They heaved in the coal to make steam They heaved in the coal to make steam They heaved in the coal In a bloody great hole Going up Camborne Hill coming down |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: BillE Date: 17 Mar 08 - 05:27 AM On a very old 78 recording - possibly Peter Kennedy / BBC vintage - "Charlie Bate and his Cornishmen" sang the following variant: "Going down Camborne Hill going up. Going down Camborne Hill going up. The horses went round, The wheels they stood still. Going down Camborne Hill going up." I heard this in the 1960's, in Exeter, and always include it when I sing the song. Bill |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: Liz the Squeak Date: 17 Mar 08 - 05:53 AM "E'm lucky, train don't stap Camborne on Tuesdees!" For full joke see your local SPROJ representative. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: BB Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:02 PM Bill, that verse had been in my mind right from the beginning of the thread. Certainly both Mervyn Vincent and Charlie Bate included that verse when they sang it, as they did all those that the unnamed Guest gives. Don't recognise the two from Snuffy though! Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: G H CHIRGWIN From: GUEST Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:36 PM LITTLE BLIND BOY |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: GUEST,attamyores Date: 28 Aug 11 - 08:38 AM One more verse: Old Georgie 'e stood and 'e stared Old Georgie, 'e stood and 'e stared 'E stood and 'e stared and waggled his beard, Goin' up Camborne hill, comin' down! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Going Up Camborne Hill From: GUEST,Luke Date: 16 Nov 21 - 04:36 AM To be pedantic about Baz's and Guest's verses 2 and 3, the versions I learnt from when my dad used to sing it in Cornish pubs were: White stockans, white stockans she wore White stockans, white stockans she wore White stockans she wore The same as before Goin' up Camborne 'll, comin' down I knawed 'er old father, old man I knawed 'er old father, old man I knawed 'er old man He blawed in the band Goin' up Camborne 'll, comin' down The third verse "I 'ad her..." is often politely left out in "family" situations. |
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