 sj |
||
|
||
UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain!
|
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: DMcG Date: 09 Feb 04 - 10:02 AM There are certainly more important things to write to MPs about - but it doesn't follow that we shouldn't have written about this one. (Obviously, given the age of the thread, we need to be thinking in the past tense here.) There was a chance that my local MP could affect the legislation on licencing, but I seriously doubt if there was ever a chance he could influence whether we went to war or not. Again, he can affect laws going through the house but has precious little opportunity to introduce new laws. So there is no very easy link between what is important and what is worth writing to your MP about. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST Date: 09 Feb 04 - 09:48 AM Why is it we always complain that politicians don"t say what they think, then when they do we go all argy bargy and cry foul. For God's sake is there nothing more important to write to MPS about ? |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Andrew Date: 09 Feb 04 - 08:09 AM I heard the same reports vectis. Apparently Circus Performers have a big problem as often they don't know where they will be performing in 5 - 6 weeks therefore can't apply for a licence. This was big news on the BBC - What a good job that impromptu folk sessions are so meticulously planned that we don't have the same problem. If we did I am sure the BBC would rally to the cause just as they did for a few clowns - mm clowns - didn't this thread start off talking about Kim Howells ? Andrew |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: vectis Date: 08 Feb 04 - 07:20 PM There have been reports in the press that the new laws will make it impossible for circuses to continue to operate. At this point the polititions started to realise that the act might just be a tad more far-reaching than they had envisiged. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,ET Date: 08 Feb 04 - 05:18 PM The message about unamplified music went out to Libera Lords - or at least they failed to understand that it was no exemption, but they backed off leting the bill in. Now DCMS is launching a formum to see what is happening to live music, the chair being one Fergal Sharkey of the undertones - not a notorious folkie!. The Act is so simple a peice of de regulation that it has been delayed many times because it is not possible to understand it. Now in force abut Autumn 2005. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Ernest Date: 08 Feb 04 - 06:11 AM After reading all that stuff (much of which I can agree with) I am still wondering if the title of this thread is wisely chosen: Hands up, all you folk musicians, who never insulted a politician on stage? Many of the jokes I heard musicians make about politicians are just as stupid. Yours Ernest |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Stage Manager Date: 07 Feb 04 - 02:17 PM Hi Big Andy, I suggest you stick to effigies. In real life the b***ers are as slippery as eels and twice as slimy. SM |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,BIG ANDY Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM So dose this mean i can still hang ten politicians over breckfast though. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Stage Manager Date: 07 Feb 04 - 11:10 AM Oh good grief. I'm sorry, if things have reached this sort of nit picking lunacy, someone, somewhere, needs a good rogering with the rough end of a pineapple until such a time as they start to see sense, cut through the crap, and begin to rediscover the plot. No wonder we are no further forward. So the Minister is a self confessed "simple urban boy" for whom "the idea of listening to three Somerset folk singers sounds like hell." In my book he's obviously not up to the job then, pineapple or no pineapple. SM |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:58 PM We will not be any further foward as long as incorrect information -such as the following - is being supplied as advice to local councillors by their legal officers. Mr Gall may be comforted by the fact that Section 177 of the Licensing Act 2003 will, (providing the requirements contained within sub-sections (1) and (2) of it are met) mean that unamplified live music or facilities to enable persons to take part in it, will not require to be licensed. However, the implementation of this Act has been greatly delayed and it is now expected that the earliest date the new licensing provisions will come into effect will be June 2004 and it may even be as late as September of that year. Of course s 177 does not of course mean that 'unamplified live music etc' will not rquire it to be licensed. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,The Stage Manager Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:44 PM Yeah, and I'd like to complain that at the level where it matters, people singing and playing in pubs, we're no further forward in three years. All we're asking for is the restoration of common sense and the continuation of a 1000 year old tradition. Obviously this is too much of a brainstormer for the bureaucrats. Maybe if they won't let us sing or play in our local pubs, we should move to the local council offices and sing during council or commitee meetings. Personally, I'd love to hear three Somerset folk singers performing in the public gallery of the House of Commons next time Mr Howells gets up to make a speech. I bet it would get on "Yesterday in Parliament" on Radio 4! SM |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Steve Parkes Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:53 AM Sure! And can I complain about the gratuitous use of an endocrine imbalance as an insult? We don't use "spastic" in that way anymore, quite rightly, and we shouldn't use "cretin" either. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Grab Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:35 AM Can I protest about the issue of cretins reopening three-year-old posts which were of dubious relevance in the first place? Graham. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Cuilionn Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:31 AM Aye, that! Ye need "sing ins" & "listen ins" tae demonstrate the SATYAGRAHA (sp?) or "soul-force" o music. Stop nit-pickin an stairt pickin yir citterns & banjos & aa that. Gie the silly blighters a splendit shaw o force that sweeps across the land. Enlist the help o disaffectit youth o ilka stripe--they love bein rebels WI a cause. Enlist the help o local elders whae're wantin a bit o meaningful fun. Get 'em tae come in wi the disaffectit youth an demand the music thegither! Get them all tae carry on intae the wee hoors, an after the "focal folk" are dane wi their sets, hae the youth an elders stairt tradin tunes & teachin ilka ither their sangs! Rouse the populace! Ye cuid ca it sumpit like "The Hell of a Guid Time" maevement... (Tae quote poet Marge Piercy, "...how beautiful is trouble/ actively pursued...") --Cuilionn, whae regrets bein on the wrang side o the pond whaur she cannae instigate as muckle as she'd like |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,The Stage Manager Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:27 AM I think maybe the best way of protesting about this issue is going to play in as many pubs, clubs, shops and cafes etc as possible and actually entertaining people. Hopefully this will result in getting thrown out a few times, so a few more people might begin to realise how stupid and irrational the legislation has become. Particularly if these performers were to hand out leaflets on the issue as they were led to the door. Be nice if some 'popular names' involved. I am reminded of a vist to Hamburg, where a quartet of music students were busking in a 'nice' shopping area. The polizi were called to move them on by a shopkeeper. The Polizi were then themselves asked to move on by a group of middle aged hausfrau who were enjoying the music and demanded that the quartet be allowed to continue. The Polizi knew when they were beaten. Ministers demonstrating themselves to be ignorant or misinformed pratts is hardly news. Frankly its what we've come to expect of them, particularly when it comes to indegenous, ethnic, "f word" music or indeed most art forms. In the old adage if you want to communicate "Show, don't tell" SM |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Bobjack Date: 06 Feb 04 - 06:55 AM Post no 100. I thank you! You have made an old Guinea Pig very happy. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,BIG ANDY Date: 05 Feb 04 - 06:34 PM should kill ten politicians every morning when eating your toast and drinking tea. Sort the country out in no time |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST Date: 05 Feb 04 - 12:06 AM Very well spoken. One should not take seriously any comment made by a politician. To do so would only indicate that his/her opinion had some relevance. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:56 AM See also Help change music in my country |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 12 Dec 01 - 06:25 AM Unfortunately that person is employed by my local authority. *smiles* Point taken. It sounds like a job for 'Bicycle-repairman'. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Dec 01 - 06:03 AM Hamish suggested - "Local authorities could transform the opportunities for local live gigs NOW - if they abolished PEL fees and conditions for small-scale gigs in bars and other on-licensed premises. The grant of a PEL allowing informal jazz and folk sessions could be an almost automatic consequence of having obtained a liquor licence."NP> My point is that we need to find something who can talk the legal talk and walk the legal walk and who can write something authoritative to bolster the case that local councils would be legally entitled to do that. P> There must be someone out there who knows their way round a law book.
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 12 Dec 01 - 03:41 AM But in the light of things like Weymouth Council saying they have no authority to be flexible, clearly some legal commentary confirming that they do in fact have the authority to be flexible would help. Any chance of something of that sort being produced? Letter from Mr to The Minister via my MP 16 July 2001. In the absence of any new legislation to deal with this, what measures under current legislation will the Minister now be taking, to ensure that Local Authorities Officers will not view their responsibilities under licensing legislation to be more important than their responsibilities under cultural or other legislation? All I received was the standard reply. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 12 Dec 01 - 02:24 AM but Kim Howells isn't English is he?
So an English person expressing a dislike or making fun of Scottish or Welsh culture in the in their own new asemblies (even if they were permitted to do so), would recieve a nice polite understanding chuckle from those gathered? Don't want to 'labour' this point as it not the main one but as pub entertainment in Scotland does not need a PEL and it is more than possible that Wales could choose to have their own more sensible legislation, it is relevant to the main point. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 01 - 06:11 PM One more point - and it's a separate one which is why I make it in a separate post.
Legislation which allows people to make music on licensed premises, or at least provides a mechanism by which this can be legal, but excludes it on non-licensed premises surely discriminates against people from non alcohol drinking cultures. In particular it discriminates against Muslims.
Can this be legal?
Seriously, I think this is a point that needs to be brought home to the politicians who make a pretence about caring about such things. (Exception for David Heath, who does appear actually to care about them.) |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 01 - 06:01 PM "It is strange how the English in particular can find merit in everyone else's culture and tradition but find their own fit only for lame attempts at humour"
Yeah Shambles - but Kim Howells isn't English is he?
It's a chicken and egg situation - the local authorities won't move until the DCMS moves, and the DCMS won't move unless they get pressure from the local authorities. Assuming that Hamish is right in saying that local authorities do in fact have the power to abolish "PEL fees and conditions for small-scale gigs in bars and other on-licensed premises", I'd have thought that lobbying locally for that to happen is probably more likely to be effective than trying to get central government to get a move on.
Once one local authority does this, it'll be a precedent that can be quoted to get others to follow on.
But in the light of things like Weymouth Council saying they have no authority to be flexible, clearly some legal commentary confirming that they do in fact have the authority to be flexible would help.
Any chance of something of that sort being produced?
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Hamish Birchall Date: 11 Dec 01 - 02:14 PM Thanks to David Heath for his question in the Commons about two-in-a-bar and for the commitment to 'keep plugging away on this'. But let's not forget what New Labour proposed in their licensing White Paper. It is not a panacea: the two-in-a-bar rule will be abolished - but that simply means there will be NO exemptions for live music. Even one singer in a bar will first require local authority approval. The White Paper carried a risk assessment that musicians could actually LOSE work as a result (p67). Licensing lawyers, who already have serious reservations about transfering responsibility for liquor licensing to local authorities, agree that unless local authorities curb their over-zealous enforcement policies the White Paper's proposals could make things worse for live music. Why can't we have the licensing regime now operating in Scotland? No PEL required there for on-licensed premises putting on bands during permitted hours. No criminal offence, no performer limit, no fee payable to the licensing authority. The health and safety and noise legislation that regulates Scottish pubs is the same as in England. Realistically we are not going to see new primary legislation for 3 years. The squeeze on local gigs has been going on for almost 20 years. It is as bad as it has ever been, and it's getting worse. It is totally unacceptable that such a long-running, ludicrous restriction on live music should exist for a minute longer, let alone three more years. Musicians and licensees continue to report two-in-a-bar enforcement problems in Camden, Westminster, Islington, Southwark, Norwich, Ely, Oxford, Bristol, Portland, Sheffield, Waltham Abbey, and Brighton. Only a couple of weeks ago a three-quarter page feature appeared in the Brighton Argus, claiming that the council there was 'squeezing the lifeblood out of the live music scene' with its PEL enforcement policy. Local authorities could transform the opportunities for local live gigs NOW - if they abolished PEL fees and conditions for small-scale gigs in bars and other on-licensed premises. The grant of a PEL allowing informal jazz and folk sessions could be an almost automatic consequence of having obtained a liquor licence. PEL fees are entirely at local authorities' discretion, and they have statutory duties under separate legislation to ensure public safety and control noise in this category of premises. But they will not do this unless they come under strong pressure from the DCMS, the department with responsibility for PEL policy. And the DCMS will never apply that pressure unless it becomes convinced (through representations by performers and their unions) that the problem is severe and widespread - because it would mean confronting the Local Government Association and their publicly declared opposition to low, centrally-set licence fees.
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 11 Dec 01 - 12:20 PM It was meant to be a serious question about a serious problem. I'm sure Kim Howells reply was meant as a throwaway joke, and he didn't expect the result (actually he's a good bloke!), but if it helps to raise the issue in the popular press, then great.
No argument with the last bit but if you have to ask the same (good) question again, it will be interesting to see if the same attempt at a joke will be made if you use a different example. Say three traditional musicians from a culture other than the English folk tradition. It is strange how the English in particular can find merit in everyone else's culture and tradition but find their own fit only for lame attempts at humour, even culture ministers doing this at a point in time when its whole future is seriously under threat. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 01 - 07:05 AM Thanks, David Heath - but don't let them ignore the fact that the restrictions do not just hit music in pubs. For example, there was a string quarter in a bookshop that got closed down, and any coffee bar that invites or allows people to play music is likely to get itself into trouble.
If something akin to skiffle were to start happening today, it wouldn't get off the ground, with the present restrictions - which won't be affected by a change in licensing arrangements for pubs so far as I can see.
(Have a chat some time with your colleague Bill Rammell (MP for Harlow) about these things.) |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,David Heath MP Date: 11 Dec 01 - 05:52 AM I hope you don't mind me intruding, but it was my question that started the whole Wurzelgate scandal! It was meant to be a serious question about a serious problem. I'm sure Kim Howells reply was meant as a throwaway joke, and he didn't expect the result (actually he's a good bloke!), but if it helps to raise the issue in the popular press, then great. And the government did promise to change the law, so it's no great crime to remind them they haven't kept their promise. As I'm pretty eclectic in my musical tastes, I can cope with "serious" folk music and the Wurzels, so don't be too sniffy about them. The late Adge wrote some great lyrics, and for me he'll always be part of my Somerset heritage. And if they've got a record to sell and can generate the headlines for the rest of us, why not? Anyway, thanks for the support. I'll keep plugging away on this, and maybe we'll see a change in the law before too long. David Heath MP for Somerton & Frome (in Somerset, if you hadn't guessed!) |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 11 Dec 01 - 02:35 AM U.K. folkies/acoustic musicians YOU AREN'T LIKELY TO GET SUCH A JUICY OPPORTUNITY TO GET IN YOUR LICKS AGAIN! Beat Wurzelgate to death! Write letters, phone the newspapers. Even if they get it all wrong show you have public opinion muscle. Help your local pubs. Have fun. Beat on the politicians. Don't wait. Call them 'Dung', what a wonderful quote.
The above is indeed a wondeful quote. My thanks to Ian for starting this thread and all who have or are doing something constructive about this issue.
Why is it that non-UK Mudcatters seem to grasp the thing so well but with a few notable exceptions UK folkies will leave it to someone else or even go to the trouble of writing nit-picking posts rather than actually help?
I doubt if there will ever be a better time to push the r eforms and make to a start to raise the profile of our music generally.
Just about every week there is some poor soul trying to run a session or folk club, who contacts me with a sorry tale of CURRENT harassment from our council's officers. The real effect this current legislation and its enforcement has and is having on UK traditional activities is quite staggering. Nothing is going to change unless those that love the music are prepared to stand up and make their voices heard. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Rolfyboy6 Date: 09 Dec 01 - 10:22 PM For a western U.S. guy like me this is fascinating reading. Our licensing laws are very different and mostly about generating money for the state alcohol board and about good old local graft. U.K. folkies/acoustic musicians YOU AREN'T LIKELY TO GET SUCH A JUICY OPPORTUNITY TO GET IN YOUR LICKS AGAIN! Beat Wurzelgate to death! Write letters, phone the newspapers. Even if they get it all wrong show you have public opinion muscle. Help your local pubs. Have fun. Beat on the politicians. Don't wait. Call them 'Dung', what a wonderful quote. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 09 Dec 01 - 08:33 PM We're allowed to insult each other, because we're family; even Morris dancers and bodhran players (!). We're also allowed to take it badly when an outsider is presumptuous and thinks he can take the piss without having paid his dues first. As a jazzer, Kim Howells is used to his favoured musical genre being extensively supported by grant aid; the people who make financial decisions in the arts authorities are largely biased toward jazz, and inclined to despise folk music, at least in part because they don't understand it and think it isn't "cool".
The point they often miss is that, without the support of vested interests and public money, their favoured musical form would be in exactly the same position as ours; popular in real life, but marginalised and largely ignored by the broadcast media, and the object of regular parody in the press by ignorant people who imagine that they are in some way clever. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Dec 01 - 08:04 PM Anything that gets this issue into the media is a good thing, and if writing letters complaining about this helps keep it there, more strength to your writing arm. But genuine indignation seems inappropriate here - unless you think that anyone making equivalent throwaway cracks about Morris Dancers or Bodhran players should be keelhauled. That would thin down the ranks of folkies in England very considerably.
While we're complaining, maybe a few complaints might be in order about that weird piece by the "Times Arts Correspondent" posted above by The Shambles. Aside from the errors Malcolm pointed out, they couldn't even get right the central issue here: "It is a criminal offence for more than two to play together in pubs and restaurants".
Which is nonsense. The offence is to allow that to happen if you are in charge of the premises, if you haven't got a PEL. The musicians aren't breaking any law. (And of course if it's a restaurant without a licence, even a single person playing or singing requires a PEL to be in place.) |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Tyke Date: 09 Dec 01 - 07:34 PM To Culture Minister Kim Howells Personally I can think of nothing worse than standing in an empty room whilst someone turns the lights on and off every 5 seconds! However Tate Modern seems to think it's worth £25000! I glad that I have been told that it's Art and not just the Gallery calling time! PS I think you been WURZELED! |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 09 Dec 01 - 07:25 PM As recently as 29 November, a senior DCMS civil servant was able to write to me: 'While you and others have tried valiantly to raise the public profile of the issues that concern you, I am afraid that there has been very little public response to the media coverage so far as Departmental correspondence is concerned.'
We have quite a lot to complain about x 3. Until we all start to do just that, we well deserve to be the butt of silly jokes.
Martin Carthy "Musicians have a tough enough time without a prat like that".
Graham you are of course welcome to your opinion. I tend to think that you are missing the point. Dr Howells is a professional and will expect to have to deal with the results of his public 'gaffs'. It is nothing personal at all. It is just trying to get the maximum attention to the problem, so that he indeed does do his job. Which is to get these long needed reforms through and not just to agree the law is "silly" and do nothing. If you think this is him doing his job well, you are again welcome to your opinion, many do not share it.
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Grab Date: 09 Dec 01 - 06:33 PM Please, enough already! He made a joke about something you're interested in. Big f***ing deal! As a jazz fan, I'm not surprised Somerset folk singing sounds like hell to him. I very much doubt anyone here is a great fan of rap either (I'm sure it sounds like hell to you) and nor will Howells be either, probably, but rap, folk, jazz, opera, chamber music and the rest will all coexist under the banner of "music", regardless. And therefore, they will all receive attention from the Arts minister, and if he doesn't like the music personally then he should be professional enough to do the job regardless. As indeed he is doing, if ppl bother to look away from the knee-jerk soundbites spoonfed to them by low-grade papers looking for a story. He's doing his job, and well. He has nothing to apologise for. And...
You Have Nothing To Complain About. Graham. PS. For myself, I think the Wurzels are an untalented bunch of wankers with the same appeal as a car wreck, ie. ppl look bcos they can't believe it can be that bad. PPS. He's Welsh. Somerset folk-singing is NOT his cultural heritage, nor is sean nos or African drumming. PPPS. Sorry, but misreporting and quoting out of context really gets my goat. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 09 Dec 01 - 05:48 PM These are the proposed reforms. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: banjomad (inactive) Date: 09 Dec 01 - 05:20 AM The Hon Minister is twat, 'nuff said. Dave |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 09 Dec 01 - 04:26 AM Given the recent common's insult to folk music, the following article shows a fine grasp of the art of prediction. From the Musician's Union journal 'Musician' in September 2001.
Foot in mouth?
Welcome aboard to the new Minister for Broadcasting, Film and tourism, rock climber, jazz lover and sculptor, Kim Howells. However, he seems to have got off to a dodgy start with his remarks on "arty farty" British films, comparing them unfavourably with the American factory produced models.
What, you mean arty farty films as in Bridget Jones Diary, Billy Elliot, A Fish Called Wanda, Four Weddings, or even Kevin and Perry Go Large – all of which were extremely successful at the box office?
But we can forgive such indiscretions when we remember that just over a year ago, when he held a key post at the Dept of Trade and Industry, Dr Howells showed a firm grasp of nitty gritty music issues, when he addressed the AGM of the Music Publishers Association and spoke knowledgeably on the subject of intellectual property and internet piracy.
A bright, energetic fellow obviously – the sooner we get him onside on the Two in bar question (something to do with Tourism surely?) the better.
"I believe that the quality of our arts and cultural industries, our creative talents are central to the task of recreating the sense of community.. I value too the folk group in the local pub in Trimdon Village." Tony Blair, Mansion House speech, 03 February 1997. It may be better to write to the Ministry as the Minister may change? Not a good idea to disagree with the 'boss'. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Gareth Date: 08 Dec 01 - 03:05 PM Sneaky - but here are the details of the man lifted from his official page on the Welsh Labour Website.
Born: 19th January 1946
Political career
Non-Political Career
Education
Other Email: kimhowells@eirlys.fsnet.co.uk
His Constituency Office where he can be contacted without going through masses of civil servants is I respectfully suggest that comments on PEL reform stand a better chance of being seen by the minister if directed there.
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 08 Dec 01 - 12:24 PM The following from 'folk drummer' Hamish Birchall, who is feeling a little 'Wurzeled' at the moment.
I know that many of you have already written to Culture Minister Kim Howells expressing your concerns about public entertainment licensing restrictions on live music, particularly as they apply in on-licensed premises. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST,Paul Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:01 PM Why is reform so slow in coming? Because few people are very interested, even less care very much. Sad possibly, but true Paul |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:52 PM I think the fact that Dr Howells thought it safe to make a joke at the expense of one type of the culture he is responsible for, in response to a good question, rather than actually making any serious attempt to do anything about the law he considers as "silly", speaks volumes.
It has been the Government's intention to reform licensing for over a year but they have just sat on it. Knowing that years will pass before the reform can make any difference and knowing the real problems currently created, Dr Howell's Dept have not made any positive steps to instruct the local authorities to use their common sense until the reforms can come into force.
When our Government actually does something to adresses the problem, I will be the very first to sing their praises, until then I will support all attempts to expose the weaknesses in their current position of proudly and smugly doing nothing. We will have to ensure that the legislation is not hijacked but that can't happen until they actually have some legislation to hijack. Why is reform so slow in comming? |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Gareth Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:08 PM It seems that there are more concerned with criticizing the minister than actually reading what he said. Yes it is the intention of the Govrnment to reform the Public Entertainment License. It is now up to us all to make sure that the "jobsworths" do not hijack the legislation. Gareth |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Dec 01 - 02:04 PM Funny the mixed reaction this one has got. Personally I find the House of Commons exchange encourging and I feel too much is being made of his unfortunate joke. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: GUEST, A Regular, sans Biscuit Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:58 PM What the Hell have the WURZELS got to do with FOLK MUSIC? I'm sorry Shambles, but the Wurzels make the SPINNERS look good, & for a long time they were doing Folk Music the greatest disservice by making it appear it was only fit for Sunday Schools & the W.I... You lot are WORSE, I'm sorry to say...& I'm not sure WHY your gigs should be sell-outs other than the fact that there must be a lot of people out there with money to waste who enjoy something akin to a freak-show. They must be there to laugh at you...take a machine gun next time & do a 'Johnny Rotten' on the audience. It will almost certainly take out some of the Trolls that make such an infantile nuisance of themselves here... |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: wildlone Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:56 PM Somerset is full of culture, thats what they do put into cider to make the bugger ferment. dave |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:50 PM And from the same edition
Wurzelgate
CULTURE Minister Kim Howells was last night facing a rural backlash after tangling with West music legends the Wurzels.
The minister provoked a furious response when he told MPs that listening to Somerset folk singers "sounds like hell".
Wurzels star Tommy Banner hit back, accusing him of "talking a lot of dung", and the Musicians' Union waded in and told him to apologise.
Outraged readers rang the Western Daily Press to voice their anger.
The row – dubbed "Wurzelgate" at Westminster – began in a Commons debate on tough licensing laws which restrict the number of live musicians who can play in pubs.
Liberal Democrat Somerton and Frome MP David Heath said: "Is it not ridiculous that in the unlikely event of Michael Jackson and Madonna teaming up to do a gig down the local pub they could do so, yet three people singing Somerset folk songs would not be able to do so?"
Mr Howells responded: "For a simple urban boy such as me, the idea of listening to three Somerset folk singers sounds like hell."
Tommy Banner, from Taun-ton, said: "This guy should get out and about more often. He describes himself as a simple urban boy from Pontypridd – perhaps he should become a more learned rural one."
Ian Smith, organiser of the Musicians' Union's new folk, roots and traditional music section described Mr Howells' remarks as a "bad joke" and called for him to apologise immediately.
"For the minister responsible for culture to make an off the cuff statement like that shows that he does not have the first idea of the wide variety of music we have in the UK," he said.
"This kind of remark makes me very angry and it deserves the kind of reaction it will get."
Mr Smith said Somerset folk music had a long and distinguished history stretching back to the beginning of the last century, and was not just about "men in jumpers in the local pub".
Folk music is one of the fastest growing sectors of the British music industry, with bands such as the Wurzels playing to audiences of tens of thousands at folk festivals across the country.
And Tim Walker, chief executive of the English Folk, Dance and Song Society, said Mr Howells' remarks were "totally outrageous".
"He is talking about the roots of English music. The least we would expect is a formal apology," he said. A spokeswoman for the Department of Culture, Media and Sport refused to say whether Kim Howells would be apologising, but insisted his comments were "throwaway remarks".
|
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:42 PM Sorry about the ammount of Wurzels. this from today's Western Daily Press.
We may be the Wurzels but we bain't yokels!
According to the Culture Minister Kim Howells, listening to Somerset folk singers would be his idea of hell.
What I can say is that thousands of people do not share his view. I joined the Wurzels 34 years ago and we are still very popular.
My first reaction was that this guy should get out and about more often. He describes himself as a simple urban boy from Pontypridd – perhaps he should become a more learned rural one.
I believe the Minister is a jazz fan – well, I have been to some jazz performances and have been bored to tears. There is a snob value about a lot of jazz – and people aren't prepared to listen to other types of music.
He wouldn't dare – he'd get strung up
But would he describe Bob Marley – one of the world's greatest folk singers – as boring? I don't think so. Would he say his own countryman Max Boyce was boring? He wouldn't dare say it in the valleys of Wales because he would get strung up.
And if it is because it is coming from Somerset then perhaps we should take him to the Race Relations Board.
It depends what he thinks of as "folk". You could call our music pop folk, or scrumpy and western. There is no need for folk to be boring. There is no such thing as bad music – there is only music played badly.
He could educate himself and listen to the late, great Adge Cutler's lyrics to our songs because they are wonderful.
Clearly a lot of people don't share the Minister's views. This year we were very busy, performing up to 18 gigs a month during the summer and we are very popular with students.
We are in Stafford this weekend and at The Works, for 18 to 24-year-olds, in Bristol on Monday. We do tour around the country but try to keep south of Birmingham. We haven't a fan club but do have a website. All the gigs are sell-outs.
I'm the only Scottish Wurzel. I'm from Edinburgh and had never heard of the Wurzels because I had been out of the country. A friend who played base for Acker Bilk said a friend of his was looking for an accordion player – so I joined in 1967. It is very similar to Scottish music. I loved it but in the beginning I didn't know what I was singing about because I had never been to the West Country.
Now I'm an honorary North Somerset man – the only Scottish Wurzel in captivity. We've got a preservation order on us.
Quite a few people I have spoken to about the Minister's remarks wonder what he was thinking about. He put his mouth in operation before putting his brain in gear.
But this is a serious matter. Bristol is bidding to become the European Capital of Culture in 2008 and we have been asked to be behind it. We are highly honoured to be asked, and we hope Bristol – with the South-west region behind it – will be successful.
But Mr Howells is part of the Government which will be deciding which city is chosen as the winner, so he should be unbiased. It is very worrying to think that he might be against us from the start and before the bid has even been submitted. Now it is almost a challenge to get Mr Howells to come and see us.
As Culture Minister he shouldn't be saying things like listening to Somerset folk singers sounds like hell. He should be supporting folk as part of the British cultural heritage – that is what we are paying him to do. We think he was talking a load of dung. |
|
Subject: RE: UK Minister insults folkmusic: complain! From: The Shambles Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:10 PM I did hear a rumour today that Dr Howells was on the end of some direct action in the West country today. Does anyone know any details of this? He may have received a good kicked in the Wurzels? |
| Share Thread: |