Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD

Subject: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 02:49 PM

People here kindly directed me long ago to a page - ZDnet, I think - on how to transfer vinyl records or tapes on to CD. Unlike all the other pages it actually has pictures of the parts you need.

Now I can't find it, and the Digitrad doesn't seem to have the link. Has anyone got this page address in their Favorites/Hotlist/Bookmars, please?

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: nutty
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 02:57 PM

www.zdnet.com will give you the site .......hope you find what you are looking for.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:23 PM

I found this there - but it doesn't sound like what you are after JTT.

I'd be interested in advice on this, because I'vegot lots of LPs which I'd like to be able to copy. I'd been thinking of just copying them onto tape, and then putting the tapes into the computer as wav files, and converting them into something I could put onto CDs. But I'm very hazy about the details.

If anyone's got a simple way of doing all this, or can point to a website that explains it all simply, I'd be very grateful.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:31 PM

This recent thread has a couple of useful links, but not the one JTT is after

Paul

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Bardford
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:32 PM

Here's one, I may have posted it earlier:

Click here

Bardford

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:33 PM

On my computer sound card there is a place for an external input device - in particular a cassette player/record player so I can transfer the media directly to the cd burner. I haven't done this yet but have a number of records that I intend to do it with. According to SoundBlaster (my sound card) I can do this. Hope it helps!

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 03:50 PM

That's more or less what I had in mind, Norton. But I haven't tried it yet either. Please, could someone who has chip in and tell us if it's that straightforward, or are there any problems they've come up against.

I've also got it in mind as a quick and easy way of putting a CD of songs together, get it on tape and squirting it through.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:59 PM

Well McGrath - the little picture sure makes it look simple - Now - we'll see if I am smart enough to do it!!

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 06:34 PM

The only hassle I've come across is that, if you try putting a tape in, it's likely to be treated as just one track - which means one of the advantages of having the music on CDs is lost. No doubt there are ways round this (such as loading one track at a time), but I'm hoping there's a simpler way.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 07:36 PM

McGrath,

There is a simpler way, but it also involves a learning curve, and it certainly won't seem simpler the first time you try.

Whether you want to spend the time / effort learning about it is up to you I guess.

Me and many others are happy to help if you do.

Paul

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: IvanB
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 07:41 PM

Frankly, I think recording to hard disk and burning the CD from there is easier. yes, it takes a bit more time, but it gives you the advantage of using recording software which will automatically start a new track at any silence over a predefined limit, editing of audio, etc. And, once you have your files in order and are ready to burn the disk, you can burn at the speed limit of your particular CD-writer. Besides, if you're transferring from vinyl, you'll most likely want to remove clicks and pops from your audio file before you burn it.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 07:45 PM

Sorry, McGrath,

Maybe I misread your last post.

From what I understand, you want to be able to play a tape into the computer, and the computer to decide exactly where the track breaks between songs should go?

No dice, I'm afraid. There's a little more work to it than that...

Paul

As I said, lots of people here who'll help

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Austin Pollard
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 07:52 PM

How to digitize music - Part 1.

You will need:

1. A good sound card (Soundblaster 16 or better) 2. A good record Deck and a [pre]amplifier with a record-deck input. 3. Some recording software (CoolEdit is a good one - $30 / shareware) 4. At least 1GB of free disk space. 5. Patience (optional).

If you haven't already got one, go out an buy a record deck. You can find these in junk shops or garage sales real cheap; typically $30 or less. Because the signal coming out of a record deck is quiet compared to say a CD player, you have to put it through a preamplifier. Most older amplifiers will have an input for a record deck, but if you haven't got one, y o can buy a separate preamplfier for about $25 (I use a btech one which is ok).

1. Setting up =============

1.1) Plug the record deck into the preamplifier. If you are using a hi-fi amplifier, plug it into the "phono" input. You will need an RCA male-to-male stereo cable for this.

1.2) Now plug the output from the amplifier (usually marked "tape-out") into the line input socket of the sound card. You will need a male RCA to mini stereo jack plug for this. Now you are all set.

2. Setting The Levels =====================

2.1) Put a record on the deck and start it playing.

2.2) Click on Start> Programs>Accessories>Entertainment>Volume Control (or click the Yellow Speaker icon in the System Tray).

2.3) Bring up the Volume Control and click on Options>Properties>check the recording box. This shows all the inputs you can have. Check the "line input" box. This tells the sound card to listen on the correct input socket.

2.4) This is the hardest part. Start Cool Edit and hit the Record button (accept the default settings for 44 khz and so on). You should see a red bar moving across the bottom as the record plays. Adjust this until it peaks at about -5db by adjusting the slider on the Windows volume control "line-input". If you can't hear anything, adjust the output volume on the Windows volume control (Bring up the Volume Control and click on Options>Properties>check the playback box). Make sure you haven't got the "mute" - box checked.

2.5) Now stop the recording and throw away the file (close). Start playing the record and start recording in Cool Edit. Let the entire side of the record play. When it has finished stop Cool Edit recording. You now have a huge unprocessed .wav file. You will need to chop this up into tracks, but first you need to do some reprocessing.

3. Post Processing ===================

Cool Edit is a complicated program so we'll just cover the basics here.

3.1) Normalizing The Level. This is useful if you have recorded too quietly. First select all the wave-form, making sure you have selected both channels. Then select the Transform menu>amplify>normalize. Normalize to 90% and press OK. This will take some time, depending on the speed of your processor.

3.2) Cutting Out The Tracks. This is done using "cut and paste" in the usual Windows way, except you can paste to a new file in Cool Edit.

3.3) Processing Individual Tracks. The two most common things to do are removing pops and crackles and fading in and out the track.

For removing hiss, pops and crackles, I recommend that you buy the de-pop filter plug-in. This is a brilliant little program - well worth the extra cost. Bad pops can be removed manually by zooming in on the wave-form and simply deleting them. You'll be amazed how the human brain doesn't notice!

For fading in and out, use transform>amplify>fade-in/out. Easy but remember you have to highlight the bit you want faded in or out.

4. Other Tips ==============

If you have a record which is badly scuffed and has a lot of surface noise, try playing it "wet". Simply spray with warm water from a plant sprayer and play in the normal way. This is the last resort as the record cannot be played dry thereafter, although I have friends who always play records wet anyway because they sound better.

If you have to do a lot of post processing, such as de-hissing or removing pops and crackles, do it on the entire album at once. This takes longer but at least you can go and have a cup of coffee (or depending on the speed of your processor, go on vacation!) while it is processing.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: BH
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:21 PM

If you do not mind pops and hisses. A dedicated CD burner ( such as TEAC---reasonably priced) works well for plain transfers. You merely play the subject matter through your unit (stereo/rcvr/etc;) and have a patch bay that will transfer it to your burner. WOrks quite well if you do not care about eliminating the pops and hisses. If you do then you will need a computer and a software program.

Ah but the charm of the pops and hisses.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:24 PM

Hmmmmmm - knowledge of recordng curve greatly expanded - Thanks - at least I'm not sitting here trying to play it straight in the CD burner - cause that won't work huh.

I really thought it would be a no brainer - and patience is always an option with me - just not usually when I'm trying to do something that requires expertise I don't have. I've copied and pasted the instructions and will have to try this with one of my old records before I try a brand new one. I am also doing this to be able to take the tracks I want and put them on CD - I'm taking a guess here but I'll bet it is easier to do the whole record and then CD to CD the tracks I want.

I have an old Peavey Amp that also has a pre-amp option - will that suffice? I also have a small RMS 4-channel micro mixer that I use when playing on Paltalk - will this be of any benefit?

Thank you for your most generous assistance!

This place continues to amaze me -

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 11:36 PM

The PC is your best bet for burning copies of your favorite LP's. Stand alone burners really won't do the job. For one thing you get all the glitches. Even if you find clicks and pops strangely attractive, you still have the problem of tracks. Pausing your burner between tacks will be annoying and you will never get a decent separation. You will find yourself upcutting tracks or having long pauses on tracks before the music plays. You might as well just invest in new stylus for your turntable and keep playing vinyl.

There are a number of decent programs available (I swear by Cool Edit) and Austin gave a superb description above.

You will find that it really doesn't take that much extra time to record via your PC once you get the hang of it - and you will end up with a wonderful CD copy. If you like the clicks and pops - just leave them in!

Ron

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 07:14 AM

Having just spent most of the night installing my S.O.'s new CD burner - and not having a blank CD-R to test it with, I can mention the "adverts" on all of the B.S. that came with the package.

Most of the CD-RW machinery I've looked at recently comes with a program called "MusicMatch Jukebox." The "specs" - using the term loosely, claim that it has a "detect tune" mode that allows you determine "automatically" where tunes start and stop, so that you can isolate individual tracks.

Whilst researching, I noted that this program is for sale in our few Software outlets for about $20 US.

There are a lot of other "good words," but it does seem to be pretty much what was asked for, it's cheap, and it's at least got the recommendation of being packaged with some pretty good hardware - HP, Epson, Iomega, Yamaha, etc.

MusicMatch

When the S.O. wakes up, I'll see if she'll let me go get a couple of disks (after I see if she'll let me leave it on HER machine).

John

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Musicman
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 10:43 AM

I've been doing records and tapes for a while now.. just as described above.......Cool Edit is great for that... although i've just found another new device that is quite cool and helps with the process......

Creative Nomad Jukebox.... It's about the size of a portable CDplayer, mine has a 6gb hard drive in it.. new ones have a 20gb drive.... it has a line input into the record... set up the record, push play on your tape or start the record and voila!.. your music is transfered to digital format... .wav... (the player will record 8+hours of music in .wav format).. THEN..... you can tranfer it all to your computer via USB port and use something like Cool Edit to separate/sort/trim etc.......

quite a cool little gizmo.... i use it also for recording the band at live gigs... use the Tape out from the soundboard directly to the jukebox, then edit on the computer.....

musicman

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 11:05 AM

Thanks John - I'm going to check out both of the programs above - Appreciate the link!!

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 03:02 PM

If you have all the gear [cd, record and tape player, pc] and something like Ahead Nero software then there is some useful shareware software for tapes and vinyl at http://www.unrelatedinventions.com/Audiotools/index.htm I am not an expert but have used it quite a few times with success [you have to have a good read of the guide first].

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 03:46 PM

Well, I knew there are people out there who can answer all the questions. I may take some time getting my head round the answers. Thanks.

The thing is, I've got a turntable - wouldn't consider not having a turntable so I can play real records. And it's got a pre-amp built in, I think. (Though I am far from understanding what a pre-amp is.)

And in my PC I've got a drive for recording CD-Rs and CD-RWs. And on the hard drive there's a neat little programme called Adaptec Easy CD creator, which is all eager and willing to enable me to copy CDs and so forth.

But the turntable and so forth is downstairs, and the PC is upstairs, and I don't feel like lugging things around. So what I have in mind is to copy the LPS - of which I have enormous numbers - on to audio tape cassettes, and bring them up and use a tape player up here to put them in the PC. I know it will mean a loss of sound quality, but I can live with that. And I don't worry too much about pops and cracks and hisses, because I tend to feel that is what records are supposed to sound like.

But whether I do it direct with the turntable (and I might end up doing that, or via the tape, the same problem arises about getting the CD to have individual tracks, rather than a track for side A and another for Side B. (And that also applies with transferring songs of my own from tape to CD via the PC.)

I imagine I can do it manually if need be - make a separate sound file for each track and then put them all into the CD burning program. And I think I know how to do that. I think wav files would be appropriate, since there's a lot of room on a CD-R, and I'd use Goldwave or something like that to make the wav files.

But what I'm hoping is to find a way of doing it that doesn't entail doing it manually track by track, because, as I said, there are a lot of LPs. What I want to be able to do is push a button and stand back, the way I can if I'm copying from a CD, and have the clever programs do all the legwork.

I suspect that I might be able to get the program I've got to do it, or add on something that would do the trick. After all, recognising when a pause comes, and treating that as a new track shouldn't be all that difficult for these miraculous magic boxes we use - but, as I said, the help-notes with Adaptec Easy CD Creator seem to have been written by people who never heard of LPs or audio-cassettes - children of the 90s - so I haven't been able to find any advice on doing that kind of thing. So I'm relying on the Mudcat, which always comes up with the goods.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 03:56 PM

Here's the way I do it, for what it's worth ($.02 libyan)

1. I hook my turntable into my tape deck (a 4-channel cassette mixing deck I got for under $200 at the music store). The turntable has no pre-amp, and it's a ceramic (i.e. quiet) cartridge, but the tape deck can take very high impedance microphones, so the signal from the phonograph is more than enough. This requires two adapters that are rca-female to 1/4" (mono) phone male. The rca-female attaches to the rca-male of the phonograph's output; the 1/4" mono male plugs into the tape deck.

2. I then hook the tape deck up to the "line in" jack on my PC's sound card. This requires one adapter that is 2-rca-male on one end and stereo 1/8" male on the other. The rca-male plugs plug into the tape deck; the 1/8" male phone plug plugs into the sound card. I set all my sound levels and record directly to Cool Edit. If I'm doing other stuff I let it just record the whole side of the tape and come back and break it into individual songs later; if I've got the time I'll sit and listen while I record, and stop the deck and do the cleaning for each individual song (cutting away lead-in silence and pruning the tail-out silence so that it duplicates the timing of the phonograph record without lead-in time (when the cd player counts backwards) between tracks).

3. Then I burn the CD from the wav files.

4. Then I turn the wav files into MP3's and throw the WAVs away (they take up a LOT of disc space). My encoder of choice is Mthreedev's "WAV to MP3 Encoder" version 1.5.1. Freeware. Works like a charm.

Alex

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Austin Pollard
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:15 PM

Try fast Eddys wavesplitter:

www.jagunet/~disrael/wavesplitter

You give it the .wav, tell it how many tracks and it soes all the work - usually, although it can be fooled by quiet passages in long songs.

By the way Mucicman - I've got a Nomad too - brilliant piece of Kit, but only holds 6GB ...

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:26 PM

(Clik here for Fast Eddy's WaveSplitter)

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From:
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 05:37 PM

I've also used audiotools (see guest, eric) and have really liked it. Continual upgrades are published (which you get free after buying) and Andrew Fish is always prompt in answering questions (he wrote it). You can record the whole thing and then put in the breaks (there is a fast audition mode), though I usually put them in manually whilst recording. It can also do this automatically but like above example, can be fooled.

I use tape output to go to the soundcard - so turntable attached as normal (or tape deck input)to my amp. I have used some post processing with other programs.

Cool Edit also looked good but I had audiotools which used less space - laptop only had a 1.3 gig drive.

Nobody has mentioned space requirements (or if they have, I've missed it - sorry) but you need 10 meg/min, or for a 74 min CD 740 meg. If you want to process stuff you need extra space - eg if I want to clean up a 5 min track I will need a spare 50 meg. I've had to be creative in file transfers to a CD-RW whilst doing stuff since I was working with 850 meg hard drive space. This might not be a problem for you if your hard drive's big enough.

Key thing is have fun!!

Cheers Rana

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 06:15 PM

Wavesplitter - sounds like someone out of a book by Michael Moorcock. A flawed hero.

Anyway, I've downloaded it though not installed yet. And I'll look into the other suggestions.

You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant. And here too.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Anglo
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 08:39 PM

Well I'll throw in my 2¢. Not worth quite that much to most of you since I'm on a Mac. The new version of Toast comes with a program called CD Spon Doctor, and you can use that to record a long track, (eg one side of an LP), define tracks, and apply filters that reduce pop as well as add "aural enhancement."

www.roxio.com for details

And there's a Windows (almost said "widows") version too. Not so cheap as the shareware options above, but suited well enough to my simple mind. Of course you need the soundcard (which I have built-in on the Mac) and it takes a bit of trial and error. My first attempt had lots of skips, I had to reboot the computer without all the bells and whistles extensions (I created a minimal extension set that includes basic system, the CDR driver, and not much else). They also recommend defragmenting the hard drive you're going to put the data on.

I didn't want to lose the quality by going through a cassette, but I didn't want to bring my turntable upstairs either, but I have a DAT machine which I use for transfer. The nice thing there is if I set the recording levels right on the DAT (it will be the same for cassette I expect) I can go straight into the computer at the default level getting a strong enough signal for the CD without overloading.

So now I can listen to by very own Bandoggs CD.

The only thing I don't know how to do is an audio fade out at the end of a track. I suspect the software can't do it and I'd need something like a minimal version of Pro Tools for that. But you can go by trial and error to find the best point to start and end your track for each song, then it allows you to assemble them into a CD, changing the order if you like, deleting what you don't want and so forth. If I can do it, I suspect anyone can.

Good luck. And let us know how you get on.

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Terry K
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:25 AM

I'm about to embark on the same exercise and, like McGrath, my phono is downstairs, PC upstairs etc so I need an intermediate step. I intend to copy phono to minidisc and transfer minidisc to PC. I think this will obviate the quality loss that you would get if you go via tape cassette as the minidisc is already digital.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Austin Pollard
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 07:40 AM

All you guys with phono downstairs - buy another!

I have 3, all from Car boot sales:

£30 Thorens/SME IV £20 Dual 505-2 <£5 NAD Deck (£30 for 3130 amp, cassette,phono and tuner

I see them all the time. I'd buy another but the wife ...

I use a Sugden A48 as a preamp (£25). In the US, go to garage sales! I saw plenty there for $20 or so when I lived in San Francisco ...

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 02:46 PM

I'd respectfully disagree that doing this on your PC is necessarily the best way. It depends what you want. I have a stand-alone burner that has been very reliable and is much easier to deal with in terms of tracks--while the LP is playing, you just hit a button and the CD demarcates a new track. The software I was using required, as someone said above, that you record the whole LP side, then cut and paste individual tracks, then do noise reduction, then create a file list for the CD burner software. Then, my computer CD burner only really worked two times out of three. The result is that I was sitting there editing for more than an hour on average AFTER I had recorded the LP to my hard drive. If, like me, you have 1,000 LPs or more, this is not a viable method.

With my other method, i.e. the stand-alone burner, I just wait til I want to hear an LP, and just record it while I listen. Voila, I have a CD of it. If I then want to clean up the sound I can take the CD to my computer and do that, too. But in many cases I don't need to. My Bandoggs LP had practically never been listened to, if you can believe that--I got it recently from a collector who had just had it sitting in his collection unlistened to!

I would recommend this especially to people who are going to buy a minidisc or a good tape deck to keep with their computer or cart between stereo and computer. Once you're spending that kind of money, might as well spring for the stand-alone CD recorder. Then you make a CD, and bring it up to your computer if you want to clean up the sound.

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Aust
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:34 PM

I respectfully agree ... ;O)

BUT if you record direct to CD, you have 1 track per side of the LP - which sort of obviates some of the advantages of having it on CD (sounding better not being one of them).

I agree, it takes 1-2 hours to do 1 LP - I have managed 150 over the last 18 months! only 450 to go .... However it does mean that my *favourite* albums are now on CD and I can listen to Bandoggs, and Fieldvole music, (for instance), in the car - and skip between them, and tracks, and load up favourite tracks as MP3's onto my MP3 player etc etc blah blah...

It's largely a matter of time (and processing power) ...

AP

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 09:07 PM

Austin,

you missed the sentence in my post where I said, "while the LP is playing, you just hit a button and the CD demarcates a new track." So you don't end up with 1 track per side of the LP at all, you end up with track breaks wherever you decide to put them in. The only disadvantage is you have to sit there and listen while it plays, you can't cook dinner or have a chat, etc, or you'll miss a track break. But it still takes far less time and attention than doing it on my computer. For a 45 minute album it takes...45 minutes!

BTW, we all seem to have done Bandoggs right off. So even if we don't agree on technology we have the important priorities straight!

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 09:35 PM

I believe that "Toast" is the Mac version of "Easy CD Creator," or vice-versa. The products were made by Adaptec, until the company reorganized and the consumer products function of the firm became Roxio.
I use Easy CD Creator Deluxe, and it's pretty good (cost me $50 on sale). I record a WAV file onto my hard drive, probably 500 megabytes for a 30-minute recording. Easy CD creator reads the WAV file for silent spots, and puts breaks at each spot and then allows you to accept or reject the suggested breaks, one by one (I found this process aggravating, so I think I'll just accept the breaks where they're suggested and not mind if the break isn't exactly at the beginning of a song). I notices that my cassette deck puts out a signal that's a bit too weak for computer recording, so I have to play around with that.
My kids keep begging my turntables from me, so I don't have a turntable to try on my computer. I'd certainly prefer to record direct to my hard drive, rather than going to a cassette first.
One thing about connecting to a sound card - don't overload it. It would not be a good idea to patch from your headphone jack or speaker terminals direct to your sound card. You could be having fried sound card for breakfast tomorrow. Sound cards will generally accept the "line out" signal from receivers and most electronic components, but need a preamplifier to make use of the signal from magnetic phonograph cartridges.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 12:08 AM

Well, I have sporadically used Adaptec/Roxio at home for several years, but at work we use Diamond Cut Millennium for recording the wave files from the source recordings, then use Nero for track splitting and burning to CD. The process is trouble free and I much prefer it to the Adaptec. WARNING ~~ there is good documentation by Diamond Cut, but even so, there is a rather steep learning curve if you intend to do anything beyond the most simple of cleaning operations.

Most people would probably be satisfied with Diamond Cut 32 at about half the price ~~ $99 US, versus $199 (on sale) for Millennium. Then if you REALLY want to get the best, there is Diamond Cut Live for a mere $995. (Note that there are no decimals in that number!) Quote: LIVE allows you to feed audio into the input of your sound card, set up a series of filters and enhancers graphically and have the cleaned audio feed out the output of your sound card in realtime. NO WAITING FOR THE HARD DRIVE!!!

On a slight tangent, for processing old reel to reel recordings, we use Sound Forge and Nero, and are satisfied with that combination as well.

Oh, and at home I don't even try to fool with the useless track splitter from Adaptec. I use CD Wave Editor. In my opinion, it is not as easy to use as Nero, but adequate.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Austin Pollard
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 06:18 AM

Sorry Steve - I did miss the bit about hitting the CD button ... still, I personally prefer to post-process on the PC - there again:

(a) I love messing about, and (b) my PC has 2 processors, so I can work while it grinds away in the background ...

On a further note, I use the CoolEdit pops and crackle filter - it's pretty good but not perfect (and a bit slow) - has anyone experience of other programs?

Some of the rarest records I have are in very poor condition (esp. 78's) and Cooledit can't cope well with very bad recordings.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From:
Date: 08 Dec 01 - 08:05 AM

When I was in Vancouver a couple of weeks back, I saw a few places, selling a turntable with builtin pre-amp, so they could directly plug into the line in on a sound card. That's how they were marketing these beasties. I haven't seen them in Halifax yet. Still looking.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 06:35 PM

Just made my first audio-cassette to CD transfer, using GoldWave to make the wav file, WaveSplitter to break it up into tracks, and Easy CD Creator to burn the CD. Seemed pretty straight forward. (I used a Mozart tape, didn't want to make it easy for the machinery.)

Now to move on to LPs, and work out whether I can get away with just bringing the turntable up and plugging it into the PC, or if I have to bring up other stuff as well...(The turntable has the wrong kind of jacks on it, but I imagine I can get some kind of converter.)

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 09:17 PM

Wow! This IS an awsome site! I had been trying to figure out how to do the casette/LP transfer thing and made the mistake of going to Dell's online "FAQ about recording stuff" site and got completely flummoxed. This thread has really helped!

In addition I believe that one could also record live to a casette deck, transfer to the PC and then record again the harmony and back-up (banjo/fiddle, melody/harmony) and using something like cakewalk or another music editing program produce a decent sounding "garage" cd of one's self. Or am I getting it all wrong? I had been considering buying Aardvark's 24/96 DA/AD recorder (bundles with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 - full version) but the $500 slowed me down. Maybe there is a cheaper way that is as good.

CB

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From:
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 09:52 PM

McGrath. If you have a standard turntable, you will need a pre-amp, which would bring the signal from the needle up to the level needed by the sound card.

When I was in Vancouver a few weeks ago, I saw several places selling a turntable which had pre-amps builtin so one could plug directly into a sound card. IT was advertised that way. They were inexpensive, less than $100Cdn.

---

Messages from multiple threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread, or are a result of the new thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Transferring audiotapes to computer/CD?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:38 AM

I imagine this requires something more than just plugging the audio output from the tape recorder into the mic input of the computer. Does anybody know the simplest way of doing this? (I'm assuming for simplicity that one side of the tape will be one CD track; I presume trying to do one cut at a time would be much more difficult.) I hope that the same method would also work for those large round black things, once I get a working turntable.   Thanks.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Hillheader
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:49 AM

Previous Thread.
There are probably more in the Forum.

Regards

Davebhoy

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Hillheader
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:52 AM

Apologies.

I linked to the wrong thread.

Can someone merge this and the post from Mark Cohen.

Again apologies.

Davebhoy

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:40 AM

Thanks, Davebhoy, I didn't do a thorough enough Forum search...should have figured this was discussed before. But I'd also like to know if there are any recent improvements...December 01 is ancient history when it comes to computers! I'll clarify that in my thread, and leave it up to Joe et al to decide if it should be merged.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Transferring audiotapes to computer/CD?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:45 AM

Davebhoy refreshed an old thread on this topic...my Forum search wasn't very effective, and I should have figured there were other threads.

But that thread was from December '01. I'd like to know if there are any new and improved programs or methods. I just acquired one of those gee-whiz 56x CD burners (which will be a laughable antique in a year or so--I was amazed that my 3-year-old Compaq laptop actually has USB2), and I'd love to get some of my favorite tapes and records on CD.

Joe or the clones, feel free to merge this with an earlier thread, or maybe add "update" to the subject line, with a link to that thread.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Transferring audiotapes to computer/CD?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:48 AM

I didn't look at the other thread, but for what it's worth:

You need an audio program, such as CoolEdit 2000. The basic program (all you need to do what tou're describing) is downloadable for $69. www.syntrillium.com

Some computers have "mic in," "some have "line in," some have both. CoolEdit will let you work with either one. I bought a small mixer for input purposes. It lets me put mic or line signals in easily.

That's basically how you do it. You can transfer from vinyl the same way.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 04:04 PM

re

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 08:39 PM

If you have a mac, here is a great help. I've tried it and it works!

http://www.zisman.ca/Recording/printer_Mac.html

Lyle

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: deepdoc1
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 11:54 AM

I borrowed a friends USB turntable to do my small collection. It came with useable software, and there is a bit of tag work involved, but it's very straight forward. Here is a link to a review of several options.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: saulgoldie
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 12:08 PM

You have no idea how timely this refreshed thread is! I have "a few" more than 50 albums and cassettes. I'll get right on it! Thanks!

Saul

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 02:13 PM

I use an Optimus LAb 1100 turntable with built-in preamp, pretty cheap even new.
The tapedeck doesn't seem to need one because I'm taking the signal from the earphone socket. This tapedeck doesn't have any other way of transmitting a preamplified signal, and an amplified, i.e, speaker signal, will blow the soundcard. I've found.
I've used two digitising programs, L.P.Recorder and Polderbits Sound Recorder. These are similar and easy to understand, but the Polderbits makes it easier to turn the file into a CD, dividing individual tracks, and it also has a small sound editor. $20 programs.
Bloody tedious business, though, so I mostly burn-to-CD just one 40-60minute file, the whole LP, and if I need just one song, I'll see to it later direct from the LP. Of course I save the file on two seperate HDs.
It takes over one hour to turn an LP into a CD, so if you value your time, maybe you should check Ebay for a CD version of the LP.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 02:27 PM

Surely for most of that hour or so you are actually listening to the LP and did you not buy it to listen to it?
I have converted over three hundred tapes but with in excess of 2000 LP vinyl discs I won't bother as the sound of vinyl is superior to CD. I bought a new record deck when my old one went kaput. I bought a Denon and what I didn't know at the time was that it has a usb built in which enables you to record direct onto a memory stick etc. You also get the editing software as part of the deal.

Hoot

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:44 PM

Hoot, most of my LPs I've had for a long time, some since before stereo, more than 50 years. I've heard them quite a lot, even though there are more than 500 of them. I still do listen to them, but since CDs it has become more irritating to turn them over every 20mins or so. That is why I'm slowly converting them.
Your ear may be good enough to detect a superiority in LPs to CDs, but mine aren't, particularly as the burned copy has some of the dust crackle taken out and was carefully washed before digitising. Even a high-quality MP3 that features no acoustic high and low pitched instruments I find acceptable, unless I play them back-to-back.
Some of my tapes, all cassettes, I have binned because they have deteriorated too far for (even) my ear. Pre-recorded and live recordings.
Just as presents this Christmas, we got a further 11.5 hours-worth of CDs. I'm losing ground.
BUT, what format does that Denon record in? Sounds interesting.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:21 AM

Gurney,
It records in MP3 format to a flash drive / memory stick. Apparently it will not record direct to another piece of equipment.

Like you some of my vinyl goes back to before stereo. I don't claim that my ear is that great and must admit that I find most CD's acceptable but lack of time prevents me from transfering LP's and despite a lack of space, I do prefer to keep the albums with all the notes and information that goes with them.

Hoot

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 03:53 PM

Hmm. I have a couple of MP3 players that ARE USB memory sticks/radioreceivers/voicerecorders/ as well as MP3 players. Dirt cheap but only 2GB.
The Denon would need to separate the tracks automatically to be satisfactory, though.
The trouble that I've had with automatic track-separation when digitising is that sometimes it doesn't work properly, even when you specify how many tracks there should be, particularly in classical music that has gaps-for-effect and in LPs where they run one song into another. Then you have to do it over again with fading and messing about.
I'm not congenitally designed to be a recording technician, and I prefer to listen to compilations or random-play recordings, rather than straight LPs. I have made up some CDs of MP3s (if you record them as Data you can get more on. Titles, I suspect) for the car. The trick in Microsoft is to put them in a folder first and then switch the computer off, which puts them into title alphabetical order, mixing them pretty well.

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 07:21 AM

The Denon doesn't seperate the tracks automatically but softawre comes with it "Trans Music Manager" which will do it automatically - supposedly, or enables you to split the tracks manually on your computer. Personally not being too technically minded I pause the recording momentarily between tracks. It takes slightly longer to do the recording but makes it easier eventually.

Hoot

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 01:59 PM

Well, Hoot, then I can't see much difference between your system and mine when I use Polderbits, except that the Denon is likely to be a higher-quality device than my Optimus. They used to be, anyway.
Except that mine is permanently plugged together, a desktop. And there are three connections into my external soundcard -told you they blow easily- when you include my old Sony mini-disc recorder.
I should think that your soundcard would be safe though, as you are not recording into it.
Only about 250 LPs and 200 tapes to go. Minimum 450 hours if everything goes perfectly. Recording as I do, one long file, pause to turn the LP over, at least I can play along whilst I'm doing it.
A friend was telling me that he is turning his VHS into DVDs. Luckily I'm not into them!

Subject: RE: TECH Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 02:23 PM

It's that time of year again - it's cold outside so I'm turning to those indoor tasks I've put off for a while. My daughter handed me a vinyl album she wants converted to mp3, so here I am. I've done a lot of digitizing work in the past, but it's good to review the literature every so often.

Digitize vinyl records from regular turntable

How-to and equipment recommendations (2018 article)

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 06:00 PM

This is a job that I have been procrastinating for many years.

I tried recording from my turtable to a DAT deck, and then transferring the tape to a second DAT deck close to my main computer, but that method is far two tedious for routine use.

Then I bought a turntable which has two apparently useful facilities. It will record to internal memory and then from that to a CD, the rationale being to avoid mechanical noise from the CD drive getting into the pickup while the record is playing. But that method is still pretty cumbersome. This device also has a USB output, but I was dismayed to find that that is mono. Heaven knows why.

Most recently I have gone back to my previous, better quality record deck and taken the signal from that to a Tascam DR-40, which is one of the now common small portable devices that record direct to memory card.

But I have done that just for a few tracks for a friend; not yet any of my own LPs. Will I get round to it before I die? That's "a definite qualified maybe" (to borrow a phrase from an old friend, now deceased).

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 09:31 PM

Richard, once you get started it's an interesting process and I think you can stay on task if you do X amount per day. That's what I have to do with my father's collection, sooner rather than later. This small task my daughter asked for is just the beginning for me.

Back when Art Thieme wanted to convert his cassettes to CD several Mudcatters supported him in that work (a whole bunch of us chipped in and bought a computer, software, and digital media disks), and I keep him in mind as a role model when it comes to converting files. He finished the work he was doing for the Smithsonian or Folkways people and sent them all of his digitized files.

For most of us it is probably a matter of having the right cables and software. Once you figure out the best routine for you, and I think you can probably remove the DAT deck if you have the right software, it should be easier. I picked up some long cables to avoid having to move the turntable and cassette unit (all together - radio, CD player, Cassette player, and turntable connected by cable) nearer the computer.

Lots of people swear by Audible; I have the Nero suite so I'll work with that before I try anything else.

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 12:56 AM

I have dabbled in this from time to time, and if I may would offer some suggestions:

1. Playing the original work. For vinyl, keep in mind that good (medium-high price) turntables offer a better sound than cheap ones, same for cartridges. Vinyl lovers will think nothing of paying e.g. $150 US upwards for just the cartridge, so an integrated turntable+cartridge on offer for say $100 is not likely to offer the best sound. For the record (pun intended) I use a mid-range Rega turntable ($400 or so) with a Rega cartridge ($150 or so), although previously I used a more expensive Garrott Bros ($400 30 years ago) until I felt like a new one was needed.

Historically, good component-level turntables do not output line level signal or digital/USB so you need an amplifier or preamplifier that will convert the cartridge level signal to line level. Someone will probably contradict me here, but I believe that the majority of newer turntables that offer e.g. a USB output will be optimized for convenience, not for sound quality.

Same for cassette playback systems, which originally varied from say $50 (cheap) to e.g. $500 plus (less cheap but also better). You need something that will get a good (or best) sound off the tape if possible, especially if this is a one time task; may involve selecting the correct tape type, bias, and dolby types according to how the original was recorded (especially if it is a live recording by an enthusiast, not just a commercial pre-recorded tape).

2. Recording into the computer (PC or Mac). You have to think about where the analog/digital (A/D) conversion is happening. Inside a computer is not a good place and the default hardware supplied i.e. sound cards are not great really. An external audio interface is really best, see e.g. https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/audio-interface-buying-guide/ . I bought an 8-channel one (Presonus) which sits in my home studio for live recording though if you only need 2 channels, these exist and are cheaper.

3. Software to record into. I use Reaper which is free for the evaluation version, or just $60 for the full version. I record then export (render) as .wav files (full CD quality) which can also be downgraded to .mp3 if you do not mind the drop in audio quality or that is what somebody wants. (To convert .wav to .mp3 I use Audacity which is free). Audacity might serve as the recording software too, I'm not sure (I use Reaper for its multi-track capabilities as needed).

So my take home message would be, cheap and/or convenient is not necessarily best, ideally you may wish to care about optimizing the sound quality especially at the input stage/s. I have been given "CD-ised" versions of LPs by well meaning friends which are basically painful to listen to and are considerably worse than the LPs they came from. Ideally the CD or other digitized files should be the best possible representation of the original vinyl or cassette if that is what you will be keeping and preferentially playing in the future.

I have also come to the conclusion that it is not always worth digitizing LPs or pre-recorded cassettes if they have been since re-released on CD since: even if CDs are less purist to the analogue freak, they are (or should be) a generation closer to the original master and LPs (especially if a little old) do suffer from clicks and pops as well as increased distortion as the arm tracks towards the middle of the record (where the linear speed is a lot slower), so for stuff I like that is readily available I just re-purchase it on CD these days (does not apply to all material, I know), or just enjoy the vinyl.

The cassettes I transfer are generally live recordings not commercially available; other stuff sounds a LOT better on CD (even cheap second hand copies) if available, since cassette always struggled to be a truly hi-fi medium in the first place.

Basically with a CD re-release of material previously on vinyl or cassette, someone else (with access to much more expensive gear than a non-professional) has already done the transfer direct from the original master tape, so the result *should* be better than a home user can do based on an imperfect intermediate medium (I know there are exceptions to this as well).

OK, the above thoughts come from someone with a long-term if fairly modest interest in the hi-fi aspects of recorded audio (also have recorded my own music on the system/s mentioned above, for which the planet is not noticeably any better) and may or may not be applicable to others, but I thought might be worth chipping in just in case...

Regards to all - Tony

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 03:47 AM

I've put up a recently copied .wav file (coincidentally entitled "Wave, being the name of the tune) from a home recorded cassette here:

wave.wav

This is off a tape I made of 2 friends playing duet nylon-string guitars, recorded onto chrome cassette in my little home studio (very basic, built around a PA mixer and 4 PA mics), 29 years ago. Late last year they asked me if I could copy the tape to CD so here is one of the tracks, recorded using the Presonus/Reaper/Audacity chain described above, and using a mid price 30 year old Yamaha cassette deck for playback (my "better" deck having gone on the blink and may never work again - ah well.). I actually routed it through an analog mixer as well and added a little digital reverb (a 30 year old Alesis box) too. I think it sounds OK :)

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 10:12 PM

That's a nice file, Tony.

Years ago when I worked on my father's estate I picked up an AIWA unit with a receiver, dual cassette player, radio, 5-CD changer and turntable. I've used it successfully for several of these sorts of operations from cassette to computer, so I'm sure it will work for the LPs. I have the choice of cables with stereo or RCA plugs to send the signal to the computer audio card.

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:52 AM

I agree with Tony Rees's 02 Jan 19 - 03:47 AM post. My original rationale for using the DAT deck was that I presumed it to incorporate a good A-D converter. I don't know how good the A-D in my Tascam device is, but I would expect not bad as it is intended for live recordings.

Apropos the matter of getting down to the task; over the last few years I have got most of my DAT live recordings transferred to WAV files. I have also digitised a large proportion of my quarter-inch tapes, working from a Revox deck to either an internal but good-quality sound card or, latterly, an external one.

I've been put off dealing with the LPs by two considerations. One is that, when I had done one, I found a jumped groove in the digital copy. I would need either to put up with that happening occasionally or sit and listen to every LP. (But you might ask why I want them at all if I don't want to spend time listening to them.)

The other consideration is that, as Tony says, some of them will have been re-issued as CDs, taken from the original master tapes.

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: DaveRo
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 07:02 AM

... you might ask why I want them at all if I don't want to spend time listening to them.

I digitised the majority of my 300-odd LPs. I started nearly 20 years ago.

I eventually installed an old laptop permanently next to the hifi. It ran Audacity and nothing else - no internet so it booted quickly. Any old laptop will do - mine had a 'Windows 95 ready' sticker on it! (And old laptops often have line-in sockets.) When I wanted to listen to some music I would fire it up and record an LP - or decide it wasn't worth recording! When I had half a dozen LPs I transferred the Audacity files to a powerful computer to process them.

Splitting tracks is the most time consuming bit. Get some software to do it. I used an ancient free program called 'Gramofile' - but that's Linux-only. I would only do it visually with Audacity as a last resort. Some LPs are easy to split - e.g. old Trailer, Leader, Transatlantic folk LPs tended to have clear gaps. Other are hard - live performances, tracks that have silences in the middle between parts of different volume, and ones where one track runs into the next. But I could usually split most of the tracks automatically and only have to use Audacity on the failures.

Adding ID3 tags can also be a faff. I automated a lot of that: where there was a later CD release I could pull tracknames from online sources - it used to be CDDB. (Though CD reissues often have extra or different tracks.) Most often I got up the LP tracklist on Discogs or Mainly Norfolk in a window and cut/pasted into EasyTag in a second window. EasyTag can also rename the files to the track names.

I regret not photographing the sleeves as part of the process. Until I moved house and disposed of the LPs I often referred to them.

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 12:46 PM

One thought here.. just be wary if you are preserving an archive to last and pass on..    I transferred recordings to CD 20 years ago.. now I am discovering on odd CD's there is distortion. This is CD rot, on some CD's over a period of time the covering layer may well degrade. So as a permanent method of preservation, it is not all it was cracked up to be..   Then eventually DVD's will disappear, and the tech..to play it on. So it's going to be a perennial battle to preserve photographs, recordings, and videos.. Even cloudspace is only good until someone decides to bring the system to a halt and change it in some way!

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 02:19 PM

GUEST - As a lifelong hoarder and obsessive, though very disorganised, archivist
[plus I long ago worked in a museum photo archive printing from glass negatives];

I had to come to terms with CD rot..

Despairing as it may sound - everything perishes eventually...

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 03:14 PM

As P.F.R. above says, CDs are a very long way from permanent. I have professionally recorded CDs that are showing signs of deterioration, and some self-burned CDs that are unplayable. Not just MY self-burned CDs.

A couple of bright spots. I had occasion to burn an LP copy recently, and I found that 'LP Recorder' freeware still works on this W7 machine, although my old Nero software (for W98) doesn't.
Also, I needed a new cartridge for my turntable and found 'L.P.Gear' in the USA could supply one that may well be better than the old one was when it was new.

What a trip down memory lane this thread is. I feel like drinking to absent(web)friends.

Subject: RE: TECH: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 05:35 PM

Despairing as it may sound - everything perishes eventually...

Yeah, just remember that magnetic tape audio & silver iodide in photography have a lifespan considerably longer than digital media.

Sometimes technology is the problem, not the solution.

Luddites of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but the technoaddicts.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 11:35 PM

'The mountains may crumble,
Gibraltar may tumble,
They're only made of clay;
but CDs should last one play!'

Or several.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 12:02 AM

CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays - great ideas, wrong materials...

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 04:37 AM

When I digitised my LPs I produced both CDs and mp3s. In those days I played the CDs at home and in the car. Now I mostly play them off a hard disk at home (I haven't unpacked the CDs since moving) an SD card in the car, and via Bluetooth from my phone. The early CDs may have rotted, but it doesn't much matter; I knew they might when I started.

When I started, hard disks were small and expensive . Initially I produced mp3s of mediocre quality (128) though that quickly improved as disks got bigger. And I knew I could rip the early CDs again to higher quality in future years, though I haven't so far - and maybe some won't play.

If I were starting now, I wouldn't produce CDs. I'd produce FLAC files for playing indoors, and for backups, and mp3s for mobile use. I might choose aac files rather than mp3 these days - though mp3s are more widely supported.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 05:18 AM

DaveRo's idea of digitising an LP whenever you feel like listening to one makes good sense. The trouble in my case is that I seldom do feel like just sitting down and listening. That applies even to recently acquired CDs: I listen to them once or twice in the car, then into the cupboard they go for years.

Once the recordings are in the form of digital files, whether FLAC, MP3, uncompressed WAV or whatever, copying from old media onto new ones is comparatively quick and easy. The only problem is knowing when to do it before the old media become unreadable. Then again, some of those old media may last longer than we do.

For some videos that I was dealing with on behalf of a society, I made copies onto a hard disc and two different brands of "archival quality" DVDs, to be kept in three different houses.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Gurney
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 08:08 PM

Oh yes, I've also lost two harddrives over the years, one a stand-alone one and one in a computer, both containing copies of LPs.

The only thing that hasn't let me down, so far, is burning LPs onto DVD blanks, as MP3s. But it takes a lot of LPs to fill one up, so you need copies elsewhere, and then you REALLY have to want to hear a particular number.

I started doing that because I thought that I was going into hospital, so I quickly copied a lot of CDs into MP3s on players, for listening whilst confined, and the DVDs were back-ups for those players.

I suppose I should try copying onto DVD blanks rather than CD blanks. There are a LOT of DVD blanks in the Op. Shops. I still don't know if it ia a coincidence.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 06 Jan 19 - 04:33 PM

My curiosity a little piqued by happening upon this thread, I did a little internet sleuthing and discovered that creating - often high resolution - digital files from vinyl is quite an accepted practice in the "audiophile" community, where the resulting files are called "needledrops" (google if interested).

Reasons given for creating these files range from portability across different devices, safeguarding the original vinyl so that it is only played once, carefully optimizing the cartridge setup (and vinyl original) to suit the recording (so this step does not have to be repeated every time the music is played), sharing copies with others (probably illegally), as well making new-format versions of the content prior to disposing of the originals (also probably illegal)...

Needless to say, methods employed are a lot more high end than (for example) using a $100 turntable with USB out. But then if the recordings are made in studios where a single microphone can cost $000's and the recording desk tens of the same, maybe that is justified.

On the other end, some wag suggested that just pointing a video camera at the turntable and recording the LP as it plays would suffice... that way you get both audio *and* video. Perhaps I should try it :)

Best - Tony

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 06 Jan 19 - 05:01 PM

The ideal way of extracting the exact signal as present in an LP groove must be with a laser, making no physical contact at all. How that relates to either the signal extracted by a top class cartridge or the original signal that was sent to the cutting head that made the master disc is a matter for speculation.

Personally I have more faith in a digital chain, provided that each stage of that chain is well designed, than in a chain involving a hard stylus rubbing along the sides of a groove in a piece of soft plastic. But each to his own.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 06 Jan 19 - 05:53 PM

Yes Richard, laser seems in theory a perfect way to go, I vaguely recall a commercial product in that area once but it vanished - see here http://diffuser.fm/laser-turntable/ (only problem was perhaps the cost at $15,000 or so...)

Also I should have added in my post a little above, that much of the interest in making/trading/purchasing "needledrops" among audiophiles - a group of which I do not consider myself a member, although a maintain a watching interest - stems from the belief that a pristine vinyl record, when digitized at a resolution and bit depth higher than the standard CD format - retains some magical information that is lost in reissues of the same material on CD (presuming that the original was analog in the first place).

I am on the fence about that one, but probably do not possess replay equipment capable of revealing such differences if they indeed do exist. However each to his own, once more. Regards - Tony

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 Jan 19 - 07:25 PM

Richard AND Tony...
Re:
Immediately above....


Do You Have References? ? ?
A producer or business would be oustanding.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

small> What you have just posted is right down my jolly track.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 06 Jan 19 - 09:21 PM

Hi Gargoyle - RE laser turntables, see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

RE CD standard being insufficient (in some eyes/ears) to capture "all" analog audio information, I can look out some references if you or others are interested - I'm not sure to which portion of the conversation you were referring...

Best - Tony

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 06 Jan 19 - 10:41 PM

OK, 2 sides of the CD vs. hi-res digital formats "debate"...

From Doug Sclar, writing on the Steve Hoffman (audiophile) discussion forum:
"CD's just don't have the lower level detail that Hi-Res formats do, and the difference, once you learn to spot it, is not minor. The 24 bit discs, and downloads, just have a much more stable, detailed, three dimensional soundstage. If you learn to listen for the fullness and long decays of the reverbs, you should notice the difference immediately." (Oct 2011)

On the other hand, the *only* peer reviewed (?) scientific study, using double-blind (A/B/X) listening tests on around 550 occasions, concluded that the rate of correct:incorrect identification of when a hi-res (SACD.DVD-A) had a notionally "degrading", standard CD-quality encoder-decoder added to the circuit, and when it did not, was almost exactly the same as chance (50:50). In other words, in that study, no-one could consisttently distinguish the standard (16 bit), CD resolution version from its high resolution (24 bit) cousin. Copy available here: http://drewdaniels.com/audible.pdf

So you pay your money and you take your choice, I think.

Regards - Tony

Subject: RE: Tech: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
From: Tony Rees
Date: 07 Jan 19 - 05:38 AM

More sleuthing RE high resolution audio...

Why it cannot possibly have any extra value and all claims it can be perceived are nonsense:

24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded

Why on the other hand it may well exist and be detectable:

A Meta-Analysis of High Resolution Audio Perceptual Evaluation

Again, you pay your money...