The Scotch and the Irish

Subject: The Scotch and the Irish
From: horton
Date: 27 Feb 98 - 08:10 PM

I'm trying to find the rest of the words to a little ditty my father used sing. " The Scotch and the Irish they don't amount to much but-------?" variations? your own original ending anything that might be fun thanks horton

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: leprechaun
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 03:08 PM

Why, what a coincidence! My father used to sing that same song. I never heard him finish it, or any song for that matter. He came from a time when political correctness was not in vogue, so at the risk of getting slammed by the P.C. crowd, I'll add the parts he sang.

Oh the Scotch and the Irish they don't amount to much
But they're a damn sight better than the G-- Damn Dutch!
There's the Amsterdam Dutch
And the Rotterdam Dutch
And the G-- Damn Dutch...

and that's as far as he ever got with the lyrics. I don't think he had anything against the Dutch, he probably just heard the song and couldn't get it out of his head.

Maybe somebody will risk the wrath of the P.C. folks and fill us in on the rest of the lyrics.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: therapon
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 07:43 PM

I can't fill in the lyrics, but speaking of the Irish and the Dutch, George Bernard Shaw once said something to the effect of: If Ireland was run by the Dutch, it would be heaven on Earth. If Holland was run by the Irish, it would be under water.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: MAG
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 08:05 PM

Highland Dutch and the Lowland Dutch, The Rotterdam Dutch and the other damn Dutch.

from a frat drinking song.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: bob
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 11:52 AM

Why would the Scotch or the Irish have anything against the Dutch?

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 07:04 PM

Who knows? It might be in there just because it rhymes with "much." Somebody might have written it because they thought George Bernard Shaw was an arrogant turd. But the only place I ever heard it was when my Dad sang it. Somebody out there knows where it came from, and this is the best place I know to find out more.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Bob Landry
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 07:08 PM

Bob, a friend of mine with the handle VanDerKooi was sorn in Holland and emigrated to Canada as a boy. He claimed that his ancestors were pirates. That may have something to do with it.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Bob Landry
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 07:11 PM

Oops, he was born in Holland, not sorn. (I suffer from fat finger disease).

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 98 - 09:23 PM

Or, could it be that the objects of their disaffection were really the New York Dutch, who were wealthy; or the Pennsylvania Dutch, who were German....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 01:07 AM

It appears to be an alternative first two lines to Drunk Last Noght (see the database). Popular in colleges and in the armed forces in the 20's 30's and 40's.

Subject: ADD: The Dutch Company
From: Earl
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 03:49 PM

also:

The Dutch Company

Oh, when you hear the roll of the big bass drum,
Then you'll know that the Dutch have come

The Dutch Company is the best company
That ever came over from the old country

There's the Amsterdam Dutch and the Rotterdam Dutch,
The Potsdam Dutch and the God Damn Dutch

And there's the Irish, but they're not much
But a damn sight better than the God Damn Dutch

Oh, why do we go with the girls so much
When we could drink beer with the God Damn Dutch?

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 02 Mar 98 - 11:40 PM

Another variant is remembered resentfully by the narrator of Peter DeVries's novel The Blood of the Lamb (which I liked):

Oh the Irish and the Dutch
Don't amount to very much.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 07:15 AM

chorus

Singin' glorious, glorious, one keg o' beer for the 4 of us,

And glory be to God that there are no more of us,

For the 4 of us can drink it all alone (damn quick) !!

We sang it at camp in the late '40s. Art

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Alex
Date: 07 Mar 98 - 11:57 PM

Other than the fact that European nations have been at war with each other at one time or another for thousands of years, there's no reason why there would be any disparaging songs out there. There's an old SCOTS toast: "One Englishman is the equal of two Frenchmen, three Danes or four men from Potsdam. He's worth as much as five of the Dutch, and very nearly half of one Scotsman"

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: O'Boyle
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 02:45 AM

What would the Irish have against the dutch? How about William of Orange. He was Dutch.

To hell with King Billy and God bless the Pope.

Rick

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Bruce O.
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 01:49 PM

When James II fled England and William of Orange landed there, a ballad was written on the subject: The Rare Vertue of an Orange; Or, Popery purged. Another was: Englands Happiness Revived; Or A Farwell to Popery, 1688.
There was also: A New Song On the Death of the Old Pope, 1689
For other anti-papal ballads look for 'pope' in the internet broadside index in the links here as 17th century ballads. Tunes for anti-papal songs were particularly popular for bawdy ballads.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From:
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 02:49 PM

Isn't inserting religion in a folk music thread grounds for execution?

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: therapon
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 08:17 PM

Yeah, I always thought "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" had no business in folk singing, either.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From:
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 08:41 PM

I note the Songs of Faith are only Christian Songs of Faith. They certainly have no monoply on Faith.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 08:55 PM

I wonder if Max has enough space on the server for the list of topics which it is not safe to talk about? ;-)

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: BRACKEN
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 11:23 PM

One of those topics not safe to talke about might be the "SCOTS" AND THE IRISH. Scotch is an alcoholic drink to the best of my understanding and a Scot is an inhabitant of Scotland.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: MarcB
Date: 11 Mar 98 - 01:20 AM

Noted with the interest the note about Songs of Faith being Christian. Might have something to do with the fact that the original ask was for traditional songs and folk hymns that could be sung in church:)

I, who started that thread, would love to learn songs from other faiths, it just won't help much in my quest to inject(or re-inject) some traditional folk life into the local hymnody. I am very specifically looking for Christian songs so that I can say "Hey, there's other great stuff out there beside "Lord of the Dance" and "Amazing Grace", and Amy Grant. Look at your own faith, the richness of its roots, and remember."

As for the Scots, the Irish, and Dutch... They all fought the English much... The Scots didn't win, the Irish halved-in But the Dutch are their own sovereign such. (Causing great jealousy and fraternity drinking ditties)

Marc B

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Liza Jane
Date: 12 Mar 98 - 06:23 PM

Tell me, someone..... I heard from some source (now forgotten) awhile back that "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" is actually an old slave song that refers to Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad. ("Swing low, sweet Harriet...") When the white masters would come by, they'd change the word to "chariot."

I've sung through the words I know, and it does seem to make sense.... Any thoughts? Is this an urban-myth sort of thing, or does this theory hold water?

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: GUEST,sola
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:57 AM

In the 50's we sang this on the school bus with several verses one of which is (as well as I can remember):
They make it in the bathtub; they make it in the sink
They make it every color from yellow blue to pink...
It smells like the devil and it stinks like a skunk;
But what the hell do we care as long as we get drunk.
Singing...glorious, gl...

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM

Going back to King Billy and the Battle of the Boyne, wasn't the "Protestant" army at said affair paid for by the Pope (as James VII & II was an ally of the French, who had been at war with Rome since Avignon)?

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:54 PM

My father always used to say, "The Irish and the Dutch, they don't amount to much, but 10,000 Frenchman can't be wrong.

I was looking for more. Where does it come from?

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Joe_F
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 06:14 PM

Note that in some U.S. dialects "Dutch" means German.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: LadyJean
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:58 PM

My mother's family, Scotch Irish from Cincinnatti Ohio, a city with a large German population, sang:

Oh the Dutch company is the best company
That ever come over from Old Germany!
There's the Amsterdam Dutch, and the Rotterdam Dutch
And the Pottsdam Dutch and the Goddam Dutch.

Oh God save the Irish!
God save the Irish!
God save the Irish, they're a damn fine race.

Mom's family had a collection of jokes about dumb Germans. When one of my mother's cousins, aged 90, had a German roommate in the nursing home, her brother, aged 85, was concerned that she might hear some inappropriate language. (The good lady drove trucks for the Red Cross in WWII. She'd heard inappropriate language before.)

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:44 AM

One of those topics not safe to talke about might be the "SCOTS" AND THE IRISH. Scotch is an alcoholic drink to the best of my understanding and a Scot is an inhabitant of Scotland.

This is quite a recent affectation: Robert Burns and Sir Walter Scott, eg, often referred to Scottish people as "Scotch"!

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:49 AM

And to add a rider to the above: if "Scotch" is reserved purely to refer to whisky, are we to assume that the recipes for Scotch Broth and Scotch Eggs etc would normally contain some "water of life"? :-)

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Mick Woods
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 06:02 AM

If it's fram Scotland but cannay Walk or Talk then it's Scotch. If it can then it's Scots!

Ock Aye!!!

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 06:45 AM

Woodsie...so it depends on the time of day then? If you see a native before midday or after 3pm that'd make said native "Scotch", and between 1200 and 3pm there's a fair chance that you could refer to him/her as "Scots" :-)


Ducking and running!!!

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: harmonic miner
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 06:51 AM

Scotch is whisky
Irish is whiskey

Maybe the song is about Whiskey/Whisky?

Many other nations (including the Dutch?) attempt to make a drink resembling one of the above. Few if any succeed.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Allan Conn
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 07:23 AM

"This is quite a recent affectation: Robert Burns and Sir Walter Scott, eg, often referred to Scottish people as "Scotch"! "

Which in itself was an affectation though! Scotch was a contraction of 'Scottish' introduced from England along with other anglicisation which was going on. The native terms (I know there was gaelic terms too) was Scottish or Scottis/Scots. You are right though Scotch spread in to common usage within Scotland itself. It has now long been viewed as old fashioned and the terms Scots/Scottish are generally preferred by at least most people - with Scotch being used solely as an adjective to describe things other than people. So scotch eggs; scotch pies; scotch mist and of course scotch whisky - but people are Scottish or Scots. I think this change in usage happened within the last century and certainly after the main diaspora so north Americans of Scottish heritage still use Scotch much more than most Scots themselves would.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: Joe_F
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM

Indeed, the distinction makes possible a charming wisecrack:
Scotland's most valuable exports are Scotch & Scots.

Subject: RE: The Scotch and the Irish
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 10:12 AM

I would look to american football in colleges in the 20's and 30's for the answer to this riddle. Notre Dame???