BS: Education

Subject: Education
From: Ringer
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 06:23 AM

Amos, in the "Cultural Losses" thread (Click Here), gives an etymology of the word education as coming from Latin ex (from, out of) and ducere (to lead). I have also seen the same sentiment in (an)other thread(s). Now, since there's a perfectly good Latin word, educare (to educate), I think that even Amos would not disagree that this is the primary root of education. So, if his original thesis (about ex ducere) is correct, then the conclusion is that educare itself derives from ex ducere. The OED gives some support to this, but is there any evidence for it?

My knowledge of language development is sketchy (to say the least), so what I say in this paragraph is surmise, and I'm happy to accept correction from the learned: Wouldn't the progression from ex ducere be to educere? And from what is education "leading out" (ignorance, presumably)? I would have thought that leading into would be more appropriate. Are we not falling into the same trap as the man I've just invented as an example, who thought that the ancients used to bang nails in with a leg of pork (from the similarity in appearance of the words "ham" and "hammer")? Is it not equally possible that ducere and educare have only the flimsiest relationships, but that 20th-century educators seized on the similarity of the two words to make a false connection because it chimed with their liberal philosophy of education?

(Amos: I'm not trying to get at you; please come up with any evidence you have on the etymology.)

Subject: RE: BS: Education
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:47 AM

Interested in words, I had to peek in the unabridged OED.
It says the words, L. educat-educare, to rear or bring up children, and L. educere, to lead forth, are related. Nothing is said about one coming from the other.
Bald Eagle, you are right in that words receive new meanings as our use of words changes through time. The following quotes from the OED suggest that the modern meaning came in at least by the 16-17th centuries.
1607- "The ... horses are not to be despised, if they were well bred and educated." 1628- "Himselfe, delighting in the Rivers and Mountains, among which he had been educated." 1588- Do you not educate youth at the Charg-house at the top of the Mountains?" 1540- "The education of infantes at this tyme ..."
Educere leads to our word educe.
1669- Chaos was that ancient slime, out of which al things were educed." 1678- "All life...is... educible out of nothing and reducible to nothing again."
This shows that the words had separate meanings by the 17th century. I do not have the references or knowledge of what the meanings were in ancient Rome, or in medieval times. Our understanding of Latin is much colored by renaissance scholars.

Subject: RE: BS: Education
From: Penny S.
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 06:03 PM

I have an ancient Latin dicker - Cassell's of unknown date. It gives educare as the root for educate, educere for educe. Up the other end, things are less clear.

educatio - bringing up, training, education, from educo, found in Cicero - educatio liberorum

educator - one who trains or brings up, a foster-father or tutor (Cic. again.)

educatrix - foster-mother or nurse (Cic.)

educo (1) to bring up, rear, educate (Cic. and Livy) educo (2) (educere quoted) to draw out, lead out. eg of gladius from (sheathe?), lots, to march troops out, to lead before a court of law, to take a ship from harbour, to bring water by an aqueduct, to raise up, to praise sky high, to bring up, to rear a child. (Cic, Liv, Caes. Verg. et al)

It looks as if the two meanings were about in Rome, and overlapping.

Penny